After All Of The Years Of Trying Why Hasn't Anyone Dethroned BMW?

Agent009 submitted on 8/27/2012 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 3:04:05 PM

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When Cadillac officials met with reporters during the recent tony Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance in California, they spent a surprising amount of time discussing their competition — in particular, BMW.

With its new compact sports sedan called the ATS, the Cadillac is taking aim at the Bavarian manufacturer, which has become the benchmark of performance luxury. 

“It won’t be easy” to take on BMW, said Cadillac General Marketing Manager Don Butler, but if the company has any hope of regaining credibility in the luxury market, General Motors’ flagship brand has no other choice. And it’s not alone.

 



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After All Of The Years Of Trying Why Hasn't Anyone Dethroned BMW?

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Agent009

Honor thy error as a hidden intention.

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User Comments

Lexus

What the heck are you talking about? In North America the Lexus has been the number Luxury Brand for 10-11 years and recently lost that title because of the tsunami thing going with their country. And the Infiniti G35 Sedan beat the BMW 3-Series and took the crown the BMW 3-Series in a comparison test.

And please don't get me started on the Lexus IS350 and Infiniti G37 being dated. Off course it's dated they both came out 4-6 years ago and their generation about to be release soon. And the new Infiniti M57 is more FUN and Sporty to drive than the BMW 550i (google it for proof.)

No one can be number #1 forever. I'm glad Cadillac is taking a shot at this market again because it will force other automakers to make better cars. And we the consumers will win.

— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 8/27/2012 3:46:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Willis

"Fun-to-drive" is completely subjective and when a magazine claims one car is more fun to drive it's usually because of personal bias or personal expectations.

Hell, the mid-1990s diesel Mitsubishi Montero I had in Panama for a week was more fun to drive than my fathers mid-1990 Mitsubishi Montero 3.5 V6. And that's my opinion.

The typical clueless car magazine would rank the 3.5 V6 Montero as more fun to drive because of some acceleration and top speed BS.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 7:10:22 PM | | Votes: -1   

Willis

"In North America the Lexus has been the number Luxury Brand for 10-11 years and recently lost that title because of the tsunami thing going with their country."

Oh, and the BMW 3 series outsells both the Lexus IS and Infiniti G in North America (not to mention globally where Lexus and Infiniti are a joke). The only Lexus which outsells any BMW are the LS, RX and ES (the latter of which BMW has no car to pit against).

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 7:12:13 PM | | Votes: -1   

Lexus

correction,

What the heck are you talking about? In North America the Lexus has been the number #1 Luxury Brand for 10-11 years and recently lost that title because of the tsunami thing going with their country. And the Infiniti G35 beat the BMW 3-Series and took the crown the BMW 3-Series in a comparison test.

And please don't get me started on the Lexus IS350 and Infiniti G37 being dated. Off course it's dated they both came out 4-6 years ago and their generation about to be release soon. And the new Infiniti M57 is more FUN and Sporty to drive than the BMW 550i (google it for proof.)

No one can be number #1 forever. I'm glad Cadillac is taking a shot at this market again because it will force other automakers to make better cars. And we the consumers will win.

— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 8/27/2012 3:48:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

LexSucks

"And the Infiniti G35 beat the BMW 3-Series and took the crown the BMW 3-Series in a comparison test."


- You are amazing. They don't even make the G35 anymore. It's now a G37. The G37 never beat the 3-series in any comparison. So Infiniti was able to beat the 3-series in the past, but were unable to maintain that with the G37 (their current car)?

How do the cars (3-series vs. G37) stack up now? Does Infiniti still have the "Crown"?

Just because the G35 beat out the 3-series that it competed against (at the time) doesn't mean that the G35 (or the current G37) will always be better than the 3-series for the rest of time. As much as you would like that to be true it isn't. Amazing

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/27/2012 5:14:54 PM | | Votes: 3   

LexSucks

That one article doesn't make it the general consensus. That is just one opinion. If it was the general consensus, and everyone was in agreement that the G37 unseated the 3-series, then the name of this thread (article) would be "Can anybody dethrone Infiniti". Which it isn’t.

Why are people asking if anyone can dethrone BMW if Infiniti already dethroned them? Answer; Infiniti didn’t dethrone them.

And why do you have to call me names? Can’t you disagree with someone without calling them names and trying to insult them?. You need to grow up and calm the "F" down. It’s only a car disagreement. If a car disagreement is enough for you to call people names, then you need some help. That’s how children behave. Enjoy.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 2:41:24 PM | | Votes: 3   

ThierryHenry14

And how do Infiniti G Sales compare to BMW 3 Series sales? Enough said. One magazine doesn't crown a king.

— ThierryHenry14 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 3:48:12 PM | | Votes: -2   

LexSucks

"Wait, did you or did you NOT specifically state 'The G37 never beat the 3-series in any comparison'?? Then you go on to say 'Where did the article say that the "3 series was the standard of the automotive industry"?'....yet right here you are arguing for the same thing, THAT'S why you are an idiot."

- That entire paragraph doesn't make any sense. What does saying that the G37 never beat the 3-series have to do with me asking "where does the article state that the 3-series is the standard of the automotive industry"? The two do not relate.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 5:36:53 PM | | Votes: 2   

LexSucks

"Classic, this from the poster that ends most posts with 'LOL!!', and whose entire schtick is pretending to love a brand they hate...and is despised site-wide."

- Now you're trying to justify your silly adolescent acts. The difference between me and you is that you take this crap personally. You call people names and insult people. And I’m the one who’s the idiot? If someone disagrees with me I’m not going to insult them and call them names. I’ll leave that childish behavior to you.

And you say I’m "despised state wide". You wish. The very thread that you posted (above) has posts by me with positive boosts. How do you explain that? How can someone who’s "despised state-wide" have positive boosts? The only person who despises me is you. Funny how you use the word despise. You need to relax and stop taking this stuff personally. You also need to stop acting like an internet bully. Which is what you are.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 5:47:44 PM | | Votes: 2   

LexSucks

"If you are responding to me, my reply was based on what another poster claimed, which was proven false. As far as sales go, by your logic then that means that the A6 is superior to the 5-series...since it outsells it worldwide."

- So are you saying that the G37 is king? What are you saying?

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 5:51:38 PM | | Votes: 2   

ThierryHenry14

Pondosinatra...

Since we are talking about 3er vs G-series, I don't see why you need to bring in other examples to prove my logic. The 3-series is more expensive on average and still sales are higher. That means people would prefer to purchase the BMW over the infiniti despite the price tag. This means consumers judge which is superior...

And to answer your question, yes, I do think that way. Its what people perceive to be value for the money, and please don't start going to extremes like Corolla vs. Veyron or something like that because of sales, because its about availability and affordibility and since the A6 and 5er are direct competitors, it shows that people are not willing to fork up the extra $$ for a 5er and would prefer to go with the A6. Having a big network in China also helps with sales, and the A6 family has proven superior in several magazine tests to the 5er (since we are into magazine tests).

— ThierryHenry14 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2012 10:57:14 AM | | Votes: -1   

Car4Life

Thank you for the laugh of the day,I did not know the 3 series was the standard of the automotive industry, try the Mercedes S CLASS, running the industry since inception.

Gotta love those Bimmer Fanboys!

— Car4Life (View Profile)

Posted on 8/27/2012 4:03:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

LexSucks

Where did the article say that the "3 series was the standard of the automotive industry"? Gotta love people who make up crap and then use that to try an insult people.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/27/2012 5:18:50 PM | | Votes: 2   

merc07

This article seems to be very misleading. BMW be dethroaned at what? The 3 series is the only car that BMW runs the industry with its entry level luxury cars. The older e-class sells just as well if not better than the 5. The new lexus has put the new 5 series to shame as far as driving dynamics and I own a E60. The S-class is still king so the 7-series was never the standard.

— merc07 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/27/2012 6:02:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

PUGPROUD

Have owned all major premium brands multiple times and always go back to BMW's because they are better driver cars bar none...others are made extremely well but lack driver involvement, more cushy less verve.

— PUGPROUD (View Profile)

Posted on 8/27/2012 7:54:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

85bmw745i

Exactly, sales numbers don't make a car the best, otherwise the first generation Ford Explorer would be the best SUV, but, in fact, its build quality and interior were light years behind Toyota and Nissans offerings. BMW, or any other car maker doesn't have the most sales to to be the best, otherwise the Corvette would be the best supercar and have no equal.

— 85bmw745i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/27/2012 9:50:47 PM | | Votes: 2   

HoustonMidtown

Have you driven any of the new models - they are losing that "verve" (I agree previous gens did have "verve")

— HoustonMidtown (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 7:37:20 AM | | Votes: -3   

LexSucks

@HoustonMidtown - What do you think the "M" models are for? Has the "M" models lost thier "Verve"?

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 2:46:02 PM | | Votes: 1   

irishmike

I began lusting for a BMW well over 40 years ago. I consider myself fortunate to have owned four of them over the years. However, the distinction between a BMW and competing brands has diminished considerably. With every generation of the '3' and the '5', it's less fun, more money. The new '5' is a numb turd, compared to it's predecessors. I haven't driven the '3', but it looks dull to me.

— irishmike (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 12:54:51 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

mclaren428

To each his own, but I think the new 3 series looks really good in person, and it continues to offer the best driving dynamics in its class. The 5 and 7 are very handsome, and drive exceptionally well too.

I think other manufactures that try to compete with BMW, just look and numbers and try to beat them on paper. While they will make a model that may put up competitive numbers, they are usually lacking in the overall package.

— mclaren428 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 8:26:24 AM | | Votes: 2   

85bmw745i

I agree Mike, they all get softer and softer with each generation, and while the performance gets better, they are becoming less and less pure enthusiast driving machines. They are losing what made them so great for all of those years. They continue to get bigger, fatter and heavier with each generation. soon the 3 will be as big as the 5 and the 5 as big as the 7 as all these manufacturers compete for size bragging rights. Look at the 3rd generation Altima. It became as big as the Maxima and made it kind of pointless to get the Maxima when tha Altima had the same engine and was just as roomy. That actually should have been the Maxima. Now you have two same size cars, so you have to push one upmarket without stepping on Infinity's toes. Altima should have stayed an in between size car like it was before.

— 85bmw745i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 10:54:30 AM | | Votes: -1   

mclaren428

"they are becoming less and less pure enthusiast driving machines."

..as is every other car in the segment, so its all relative.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715008

Here is a size comparison of the e90 3 series to the new F30. The F30 is only 2 inches longer, but on average over 100lbs's lighter.

Also the next 7 series has been confirmed to be the first series production BMW to utilize aluminum and carbon fiber extensively in its construction. So I wouldn’t cry foul just yet, as upcoming Bimmers are going on a serious diet.

— mclaren428 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 12:01:55 PM | | Votes: 4   

LexSucks

Why are you guys ignoring the "M" models?

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 2:47:58 PM | | Votes: 2   

Holydude

Huh? When did it became the king?

— Holydude (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 5:32:15 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

curriescorner

@LexSucks

Actually the G37 beat the 3 series in a Motortrend comparison.

The fact is the G37 easily sells more than half of what the 3 series sells and their sales will probably test 3 series sales when when the next G comes out. It won't do it consistenly but look for the G to reach the 7-9k sales mark. The IS is no sales slouch either and Lexus does not even have a regular IS coupe.

Point is Infiniti and Lexus have a strong presence in this segement. They're not worrying about dethroning the 3 series.

— curriescorner (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 9:04:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

AgentOrange

For many of us who own and love BMWs, it's not about the "Luxury" market.
It's about the pure enjoyment of driving.
Merc, Audi, Lexus (and caddy) may all be more luxurious inside and out - and that's fine with me.
So if you like getting from A to B in style on a nice comfy ultra-lux couch, then get a luxury car like a Lexus.
If you want to get there with a smile on your face, get a bimmer.

— AgentOrange (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 10:21:47 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

irishmike

AgentOrange, If you want to get there with a smile on your face, you probably got an OLDER Bimmer. BMW's drifting away from their original focus. They have to. Their buyers are aging and they want the ultra-lux couch !

— irishmike (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 11:44:03 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

GermanNut

If there is any manufacturer capable of catching BMW it's Audi. With each successive generation of the A4, A6, and A8 Audi has made their cars increasingly driver-focused and better dynamically. This trend includes the respective S models as well.

This trend has reached a point where the A6 and A8 (along with their S variants) have been regarded as better driving cars than the BMW 5-series and 7-series. Audi's brand-new A7 continues this trend.

If Audi stays true to form, the new A4 could very well catch the BMW 3-series in dynamic capability.

Interior wise Audi has long been considered a leader so the only thing Audi needs to catch up with BMW on in regards to the A4 is handling and driving dynamics.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 1:09:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -8   

PQ40

zzz...more drivel from the Audi salesman.

— PQ40 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 1:25:22 PM | | Votes: 6   

HoustonMidtown

drivel? seems to be proven out over and over with recent reviews...

— HoustonMidtown (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 1:41:56 PM | | Votes: -5   

LexSucks

Audi's are nose-heavy overweight pigs.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 2:43:48 PM | | Votes: 2   

DeutschlandV8

It is interesting to read these comparisons because here in Europe the outcome is very different. Which begs the question do Audi just make dynamic cars for the US market review?

Even though current Audi's featured in tests between the M5 and 6er Gran Coupe have been dismissed in europe as average drivers cars. As per the Audi norm.

For anyone to say that the new BMW 3er is no longer the ultimate choice for keen drivers needs to look at how in europe how the car has considerably widened the gap between the current C-Klasse and A4 in every way possible.

— DeutschlandV8 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 1:54:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

GermanNut

For anyone who doesn't believe the fact that Audi's A6, A7, and A8, S6 and Q5 are better dynamically than their BMW 5-series, 6-Series Gran Coupe, 7-series and X3 counterparts just read the following reviews:

Edmunds Insideline Comparison Test (2012 A6 vs. 5er)

Car and Driver Comparison Test (Audi A7 vs. 6-Series Gran Coupe)

Car and Driver Comparison Test (2011 Audi A8L vs. BMW 750Li vs. Jaguar XJL Supercharged)

Car and Driver Comparison Test (2013 Audi S6 vs. 2013 BMW M5 vs. 2012 MB E63 AMG)

Car and Driver Comparison Test (2009 Audi Q5 vs. 2009 BMW X3 xDrive30i)

Clearly this is a repeating trend over many model ranges both on the lower-end and higher-end of the model lineup and across SUVs, sedans, and sports sedans.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 2:15:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

GermanNut

Road and Track Comparison Test of the 2011 Audi A8L vs. BMW 750Li vs. Jaguar XJL) also proves the Audi A8L is superior dynamically than the competition.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 2:18:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

94geo

This matters b/c people who buy a $90K, 17 & 1/2 foot long, 2+ ton luxury barge, number one priority is carving up back roads. LOL.

— 94geo (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 2:38:21 PM | | Votes: 4   

DrBrian

I've owned a Lexus GS, Lexus IS 350, a Mercedes E class (2012).... and I have to say, I just traded my E for a loaded 335i X-drive...because, of all these cars, the 335 is an amazingly FUN car to drive...nothing like it.
I have an open mind, and as an American, I hope that Cadillac ATS at some point gives the 335 a run for the money. Insofar as Lexus is concerned, FINE dealerships, QUALITY product, but the IS has fall WAY... A COUNTRY MILE behind BMW in technology. Lexus is stuck on hybrids, and causing it to misdirect assets and research. The IS tranny is WAY behind the BMW (or Mercedes). Lexus has steadfastly refused thus far to put the great safety features like line change and adaptive cruise and Heads Up in the IS....Lexus thinks of the IS not as a great sports car, but as a CHEAP sports car. They COULD build a great small sports car, but they show no signs of it. The G-37 sport is very claustrophobic inside...that is the coupe.

— DrBrian (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2012 8:28:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

skytop

Another STUPID AutoSpies question.

What is your problem AutoSpies writers? Are you that devoid of imagination and knowledge? Is this baloney specious question the best you can come up with?

WASTE!!!

— skytop (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2012 12:57:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

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