27 Votes
Boost it!
Agent001 submitted on 9/8/2009 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 12:16:52 AM
68 user comments | Category: Spy Shots | Source: www.autospies.com
The most impressive part of the new Audi S4, is the aggressive price that allows you to get an S4, for the price of a BMW 335. There is no question Audi is breathing fire and aiming directly at an aging king.The 335 is still an amazing car but is it about time for BMW to do an Emeril and kick it up a notch.Do you think they have to counter this move from Audi with a more aggressive price/amenities, more performance or both?Or is the 335 still in no danger of being caught?BMW Vision EfficientDynamics Concept Photo Gallery2009 Frankfurt Auto Show Photo Gallery2009 Concours Weekend Photo Gallery Live! (All photos from all Monterey shows in one gallery)2009 Concorso Italiano Photo Gallery2009 The Quail Event Photo Gallery AutoSpies.com Photo Galleries If you want to see your photos running on our homepage photo ticker, be sure to upload your photos on the go by sending them to Mobile@AutoSpies.com Share on FacebookThere are photos and then there are AutoSpies.com photos!
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The way a man treats his car is how he treats himself. — Agent001 (View Profile)
The way a man treats his car is how he treats himself.
— Agent001 (View Profile)
Doubling the size of their propellor or putting in bigger turbochargers (rather than spending money on real engineering).Seriously though, even if price is close, why is the S4 being put up against an 335i? Is an S4 customer really going to cross shop it with a 335i or an M3? (unless they absolutely have to have the badge)— huu76 (View Profile)
Doubling the size of their propellor or putting in bigger turbochargers (rather than spending money on real engineering).Seriously though, even if price is close, why is the S4 being put up against an 335i? Is an S4 customer really going to cross shop it with a 335i or an M3? (unless they absolutely have to have the badge)
— huu76 (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 1:14:04 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -12
Well at $45k, I would say a definite yes.001— Agent001 (View Profile)
Well at $45k, I would say a definite yes.001
Posted on 9/8/2009 1:43:22 AM | | Votes: 8
$ 53,575...Thats an S4 built how I would want it from the Audi website. With tax its more. For that price ill take a M3 sedan. — rxh8me9000 (View Profile)
$ 53,575...Thats an S4 built how I would want it from the Audi website. With tax its more. For that price ill take a M3 sedan.
— rxh8me9000 (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 4:41:54 AM | | Votes: -1
BMW does NOT have to counter this they had a LEGEND under their belt for close to 20 years now anybody remeber the M3.....yeah they didnt start making the sedan AGAIN until last year but who cares the M3 is a legend within its self and for BMW to counter the S4 is ridiculous in my opinion. The S4 is hot for what it is dont get me wrong but saying that BMW needs to counter this car DEFINITLEY NO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>— B7FAN (View Profile)
BMW does NOT have to counter this they had a LEGEND under their belt for close to 20 years now anybody remeber the M3.....yeah they didnt start making the sedan AGAIN until last year but who cares the M3 is a legend within its self and for BMW to counter the S4 is ridiculous in my opinion. The S4 is hot for what it is dont get me wrong but saying that BMW needs to counter this car DEFINITLEY NO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
— B7FAN (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 7:21:13 AM | | Votes: 3
well, huu, that's because the S4 has similiar performance to a 335i and is priced the same as 335i. could that be it? or could it be that they both have 6-cylinder engines?the M3 is a different class of vehicle. and at $20,000 more (build one on bmwusa.com just so you're clear on pricing) than an S4, the S4 buyer is likely unable to afford the M3 or just doesn't want to spend the money.— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)
well, huu, that's because the S4 has similiar performance to a 335i and is priced the same as 335i. could that be it? or could it be that they both have 6-cylinder engines?the M3 is a different class of vehicle. and at $20,000 more (build one on bmwusa.com just so you're clear on pricing) than an S4, the S4 buyer is likely unable to afford the M3 or just doesn't want to spend the money.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 12:20:25 PM | | Votes: 3
enthusiastx11.The M3 isn't "$20,000" more expensive than the S4. What did you do compare a stripped out S4 against a fully loaded M3? LOL!— LexSucks (View Profile)
enthusiastx11.The M3 isn't "$20,000" more expensive than the S4. What did you do compare a stripped out S4 against a fully loaded M3? LOL!
— LexSucks (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 1:42:08 PM | | Votes: 0
We all know the M3 is pricey but the M3 has always been a RWD coupe or sedan but I dont think they need to counter this car by adding AWD to the M3 it will mess with the weight and performance of the M3. of course the S4 will handle better in the snow because of the AWD system but they are heavier also. Audi has been doing their thing with the AWD and has been successful with it.... if they are looking to go at BMW I think they need to make a RWD car to compete with it — B7FAN (View Profile)
We all know the M3 is pricey but the M3 has always been a RWD coupe or sedan but I dont think they need to counter this car by adding AWD to the M3 it will mess with the weight and performance of the M3. of course the S4 will handle better in the snow because of the AWD system but they are heavier also. Audi has been doing their thing with the AWD and has been successful with it.... if they are looking to go at BMW I think they need to make a RWD car to compete with it
Posted on 9/8/2009 3:19:24 PM | | Votes: 1
Starsearch,All my cars are RWD with the exception of a minivan and nissan.I have a turbo 2004 RX8,turbo RX7,2009 BMW 135,2009 Nissan Maxima and a 2004 Mazda MPV. All of them are fine with snow tires on. I live in NY and we get a lot more than 1-2 inches of snow during the winter.The M3 would be fine. It had DSC,traction control, ABS etc. I actually feel my cars are better than the van in the snow due to the vans weight,smaller brakes etc. People think just because its RWD the car sucks in anything but dry weather,but like i said with snow tires i have never had a problem. I mean maybe if there is a foot of snow outside and someone is flying i can see a problem,but at that point its not even about tires or the car ,its just stupidity.— rxh8me9000 (View Profile)
Starsearch,All my cars are RWD with the exception of a minivan and nissan.I have a turbo 2004 RX8,turbo RX7,2009 BMW 135,2009 Nissan Maxima and a 2004 Mazda MPV. All of them are fine with snow tires on. I live in NY and we get a lot more than 1-2 inches of snow during the winter.The M3 would be fine. It had DSC,traction control, ABS etc. I actually feel my cars are better than the van in the snow due to the vans weight,smaller brakes etc. People think just because its RWD the car sucks in anything but dry weather,but like i said with snow tires i have never had a problem. I mean maybe if there is a foot of snow outside and someone is flying i can see a problem,but at that point its not even about tires or the car ,its just stupidity.
Posted on 9/8/2009 4:36:11 PM | | Votes: 1
If BMW wanted to snuff Audi, they could just rechip the 335 engine to add some extra HP, plus add DCT and a limited slip diff. Or, put that engine in the M3, lowering the price accordingly. Either way, the Beemer's RWD trumps quattro in the dry. If Audi really wanted to lay into BMW, they'd introduce an RWD S4. Heresy. — sdcarguy (View Profile)
If BMW wanted to snuff Audi, they could just rechip the 335 engine to add some extra HP, plus add DCT and a limited slip diff. Or, put that engine in the M3, lowering the price accordingly. Either way, the Beemer's RWD trumps quattro in the dry. If Audi really wanted to lay into BMW, they'd introduce an RWD S4. Heresy.
— sdcarguy (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 1:30:16 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2
what snow tires are you speaking about? I have snow tires for my 335 coupe & had no problems blasting through feet of snow. We live in wisconsin, where the roads get plowed about 1x a month regardless of the snow amount. Does your friend not know how to drive? — BMW4me4ever (View Profile)
what snow tires are you speaking about? I have snow tires for my 335 coupe & had no problems blasting through feet of snow. We live in wisconsin, where the roads get plowed about 1x a month regardless of the snow amount. Does your friend not know how to drive?
— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 11:11:08 AM | | Votes: 1
actually you dont have to take my word for it. www.tirerack.com did a comparison test with a Porsche Cayenne with all season tires vs a BMW 328 RWD with snow tires. What they found out was that it was pretty much a dead heat and the snow tires helped the BMW handle and stop better. In regards to the snow tires, what are the dimmensions of the snow tires & the brand that you are using. That makes a big impact on driving in the snow. Try a blizzak 17" with the same size on all 4 corners. I have and have never had any issue of driving around in the deep snow. trust me northern wisconsin gets alot more snow than what you get on an annual basis.Unfortunately, the S4 doesnt come with all season tires when you load it up. Sport tires with AWD are onlly going to allow so much traction and driveability in deep snow. Alot also depends on the driver's understanding and experience in the snow. Actually, I will take my 135 with snow tires on it vs. an average driver any day of the week with an AWD Audi S4— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)
actually you dont have to take my word for it. www.tirerack.com did a comparison test with a Porsche Cayenne with all season tires vs a BMW 328 RWD with snow tires. What they found out was that it was pretty much a dead heat and the snow tires helped the BMW handle and stop better. In regards to the snow tires, what are the dimmensions of the snow tires & the brand that you are using. That makes a big impact on driving in the snow. Try a blizzak 17" with the same size on all 4 corners. I have and have never had any issue of driving around in the deep snow. trust me northern wisconsin gets alot more snow than what you get on an annual basis.Unfortunately, the S4 doesnt come with all season tires when you load it up. Sport tires with AWD are onlly going to allow so much traction and driveability in deep snow. Alot also depends on the driver's understanding and experience in the snow. Actually, I will take my 135 with snow tires on it vs. an average driver any day of the week with an AWD Audi S4
Posted on 9/8/2009 3:44:04 PM | | Votes: 1
108 hp for the M3 isnt that big of a deal. Most people that have an " M " car & use snow tires ( a good set of tires ) know how to drive the car. There is a difference of knowing what your car is capable of & what the limitations are. Can someone put snow tires on a M3 and take a corner at 50mph? Not a chance. The laws of physics wouldnt allow it. Just like an AWD car with all season tires would equally have trouble. On a M car, if you dont understand how the car behaves, or where the " apex " of a turn is, or when the ideal shift points and dynamics of the car, or can appreciate the car for what it is, then you have no business driving it— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)
108 hp for the M3 isnt that big of a deal. Most people that have an " M " car & use snow tires ( a good set of tires ) know how to drive the car. There is a difference of knowing what your car is capable of & what the limitations are. Can someone put snow tires on a M3 and take a corner at 50mph? Not a chance. The laws of physics wouldnt allow it. Just like an AWD car with all season tires would equally have trouble. On a M car, if you dont understand how the car behaves, or where the " apex " of a turn is, or when the ideal shift points and dynamics of the car, or can appreciate the car for what it is, then you have no business driving it
Posted on 9/8/2009 3:48:24 PM | | Votes: 2
For a start, they already have a revised 3.0l TT engine which is found on the 740i. 326hp... And you can opt for the aero package which makes the 335i look amazing. I personally prefer the aero kit over any S4. I think that's enough to get the Audi back inline, if it isn't already.. — M53R (View Profile)
For a start, they already have a revised 3.0l TT engine which is found on the 740i. 326hp... And you can opt for the aero package which makes the 335i look amazing. I personally prefer the aero kit over any S4. I think that's enough to get the Audi back inline, if it isn't already..
— M53R (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 1:43:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0
They should offer 335i Performance - with complete line of Performance parts & Power Kit (20HP & 50Nm more) standard, and include e-LSD as found in eg. 135i as a part of standard feature as well.At least in Europe customers can order Performance Parts & Power Kit for 335i as an extra options ... so, only aggressively set e-LSD is missing. — TimE (View Profile)
They should offer 335i Performance - with complete line of Performance parts & Power Kit (20HP & 50Nm more) standard, and include e-LSD as found in eg. 135i as a part of standard feature as well.At least in Europe customers can order Performance Parts & Power Kit for 335i as an extra options ... so, only aggressively set e-LSD is missing.
— TimE (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 2:30:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3
In America you can order an intake and exhaust from the BMW parts catalog along with a bunch of dress-up parts.A lsd would be great.— rxh8me9000 (View Profile)
In America you can order an intake and exhaust from the BMW parts catalog along with a bunch of dress-up parts.A lsd would be great.
Posted on 9/8/2009 4:45:04 AM | | Votes: 3
Probably the most intelligent statement any user has made in a long time.All valid points that BMW needs to look into.— Agent00R (View Profile)
Probably the most intelligent statement any user has made in a long time.All valid points that BMW needs to look into.
— Agent00R (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 9:38:44 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4
The product will speak for itself... at $50k plus, you buy what you want... — adamsaf723 (View Profile)
The product will speak for itself... at $50k plus, you buy what you want...
— adamsaf723 (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 8:53:17 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3
You can't get an M3 sedan for 54K. Unless, all you want is the bare bones. Everytime I visit my local BMW dealer all M3 prices ranges from 65-72k. That's pretty outrageous considering it's just a 3 series. — SSP350 (View Profile)
You can't get an M3 sedan for 54K. Unless, all you want is the bare bones. Everytime I visit my local BMW dealer all M3 prices ranges from 65-72k. That's pretty outrageous considering it's just a 3 series.
— SSP350 (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 9:14:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0
I wouldn't call it outrageous.If you look take into account the growth factor in overall size/technology/engine size I think the prices are just about right. In BMW's case, the 3-series has grown to E39 5-series size and grossly overpowers it. An E39 540i has less power than a new 335i and is roughly the same size. Prices are justified.The 1-series is the new 3-series. To illustrate this "class upping" look at the SUVs. The X5 has grown and is more of an Escalade competitor, the X3 will become what the X5 was and the X1 will round out the line-up by taking over where the X3 left off.— Agent00R (View Profile)
I wouldn't call it outrageous.If you look take into account the growth factor in overall size/technology/engine size I think the prices are just about right. In BMW's case, the 3-series has grown to E39 5-series size and grossly overpowers it. An E39 540i has less power than a new 335i and is roughly the same size. Prices are justified.The 1-series is the new 3-series. To illustrate this "class upping" look at the SUVs. The X5 has grown and is more of an Escalade competitor, the X3 will become what the X5 was and the X1 will round out the line-up by taking over where the X3 left off.
Posted on 9/8/2009 9:42:56 AM | | Votes: 2
outrageous? really? for one of the best rounded cars on the planet?what would you buy instead that outperforms it and can be used as a daily driver?— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)
outrageous? really? for one of the best rounded cars on the planet?what would you buy instead that outperforms it and can be used as a daily driver?
Posted on 9/8/2009 12:23:05 PM | | Votes: 1
Theres a 2008 Alpine white M3 sedan at Westchester BMW here in NY for $56,000. Like everyone has been saying even if it does cost $6,000 more the M3 is a different beast than the S4. S4 competes with the 335 not the M3,yet it creeps close to M3 price range.— rxh8me9000 (View Profile)
Theres a 2008 Alpine white M3 sedan at Westchester BMW here in NY for $56,000. Like everyone has been saying even if it does cost $6,000 more the M3 is a different beast than the S4. S4 competes with the 335 not the M3,yet it creeps close to M3 price range.
Posted on 9/8/2009 4:42:24 PM | | Votes: 0
A BMW M3 sedan is at least $6K MORE than an Audi S4, when options are taken into account. The Audi S4 is far closer in price to the BMW 335i than the M3.The S4 starts at $45,900. The 335i sedan starts at $40,300, the 335i xDrive sedan starts at $42,300 and the 335i xDrive coupe starts at $44,100. The M3 sedan STARTS at $54,000.BMW needs to offer more standard equipment on its xDrive cars, and offer better performance to compete with the Audi S4, which comes standard with Quattro AWD.— GermanNut (View Profile)
A BMW M3 sedan is at least $6K MORE than an Audi S4, when options are taken into account. The Audi S4 is far closer in price to the BMW 335i than the M3.The S4 starts at $45,900. The 335i sedan starts at $40,300, the 335i xDrive sedan starts at $42,300 and the 335i xDrive coupe starts at $44,100. The M3 sedan STARTS at $54,000.BMW needs to offer more standard equipment on its xDrive cars, and offer better performance to compete with the Audi S4, which comes standard with Quattro AWD.
— GermanNut (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 9:51:04 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3
Agressive price?That is a lot of coin for a fancy Jetta.— Invisible (View Profile)
Agressive price?That is a lot of coin for a fancy Jetta.
— Invisible (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 9:51:44 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2
Audi is just plain DUMB, the market for 335 is simply too small to be worth the efforts. When was the last time you all saw a 335 on the street vs the lesser and much cheaper 3 series? Only a dumbazz would blow 45k on an econocar looking 335 when they could have a more prestigious 5 series. Badgewhores rule!— Badgewhore (View Profile)
Audi is just plain DUMB, the market for 335 is simply too small to be worth the efforts. When was the last time you all saw a 335 on the street vs the lesser and much cheaper 3 series? Only a dumbazz would blow 45k on an econocar looking 335 when they could have a more prestigious 5 series. Badgewhores rule!
— Badgewhore (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 9:51:48 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5
you're so smart! gosh...i wish i was more like you.— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)
you're so smart! gosh...i wish i was more like you.
Posted on 9/8/2009 3:35:59 PM | | Votes: -1
Maybe in your next life you can be smart and realize what I've said to be true, but til then, stay dumb. — Badgewhore (View Profile)
Maybe in your next life you can be smart and realize what I've said to be true, but til then, stay dumb.
Posted on 9/9/2009 1:36:40 AM | | Votes: 2
chip the new s4 for an additional +100hp, bringing it close to the b7 rs4 numbers.... can't wait.(source mtm abt and oct) — zlives (View Profile)
chip the new s4 for an additional +100hp, bringing it close to the b7 rs4 numbers.... can't wait.(source mtm abt and oct)
— zlives (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 9:56:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1
The B8 Audi S4 is faster than BMW's 335i and has defeated the 335i in many comparison tests including one conducted by EVO magazine, which I submitted but conveniently wasn't posted on Autospies.com because it would make the BMW look inferior.— GermanNut (View Profile)
The B8 Audi S4 is faster than BMW's 335i and has defeated the 335i in many comparison tests including one conducted by EVO magazine, which I submitted but conveniently wasn't posted on Autospies.com because it would make the BMW look inferior.
Posted on 9/8/2009 10:06:24 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2
psst . I have not seen a test where the Audi S4 was faster, unless you are referring to the estimated performance times in the evo magazine or car & driver. Whereas both did say the handling and chassis of the BMW was superior.— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)
psst . I have not seen a test where the Audi S4 was faster, unless you are referring to the estimated performance times in the evo magazine or car & driver. Whereas both did say the handling and chassis of the BMW was superior.
Posted on 9/8/2009 3:59:30 PM | | Votes: 0
At $5k more? The S4 isn't a direct competitor to the BMW 335. Typical Audi though. You have to spend $5,000 more for the Audi to get the equivalent BMW performance. And what does Audi have to compete against the M3? Audi doesn't have a direct competitor to the 335 or the M3. Not with that price. — LexSucks (View Profile)
At $5k more? The S4 isn't a direct competitor to the BMW 335. Typical Audi though. You have to spend $5,000 more for the Audi to get the equivalent BMW performance. And what does Audi have to compete against the M3? Audi doesn't have a direct competitor to the 335 or the M3. Not with that price.
Posted on 9/8/2009 10:18:45 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0
LexSucks, sorry, you don't spend $5,000 more for the Audi S4 to get BMW 335i equivalent BMW 335i performance.The test results above very clearly show that you spend $5K more on the Audi to get BETTER performance than the BMW.Audi has the RS4 to compete with the M3. Audi's S4 competes with BMW's 335i because it offers more standard equipment, better performance, and costs virtually the same after the cars are equipped with similar options.— GermanNut (View Profile)
LexSucks, sorry, you don't spend $5,000 more for the Audi S4 to get BMW 335i equivalent BMW 335i performance.The test results above very clearly show that you spend $5K more on the Audi to get BETTER performance than the BMW.Audi has the RS4 to compete with the M3. Audi's S4 competes with BMW's 335i because it offers more standard equipment, better performance, and costs virtually the same after the cars are equipped with similar options.
Posted on 9/8/2009 10:26:27 AM | | Votes: 0
Germanut,Car that are priced $5,000 dollars apart usually aren't direct competitors. The S4 is simply a Higher Priced alternative to the BMW 335. It's sorta like comparisons between the G37 and the BMW 335. The G37 comes close to the BMW in terms of performance, etc... but in the end you up getting what you pay for. For BMW to praise victory over the G37 would seem bully'ish. "Pick on someone your own size". The same applies to the S4 vs 335i comparisons that I see people here attempting to make. Pick on someone your own sizeAnd the older gen (due to be replaced) RS4 may compete with the more currently designed M3, but it isn't really competitive. The RS4 that is out now is long in the tooth and isn't setting the world on fire. — LexSucks (View Profile)
Germanut,Car that are priced $5,000 dollars apart usually aren't direct competitors. The S4 is simply a Higher Priced alternative to the BMW 335. It's sorta like comparisons between the G37 and the BMW 335. The G37 comes close to the BMW in terms of performance, etc... but in the end you up getting what you pay for. For BMW to praise victory over the G37 would seem bully'ish. "Pick on someone your own size". The same applies to the S4 vs 335i comparisons that I see people here attempting to make. Pick on someone your own sizeAnd the older gen (due to be replaced) RS4 may compete with the more currently designed M3, but it isn't really competitive. The RS4 that is out now is long in the tooth and isn't setting the world on fire.
Posted on 9/8/2009 10:45:19 AM | | Votes: 0
The price difference between the Audi S4 and the BMW 335i xDrive sedan (obviously the S4's closest BMW competitor b/c it has 4-doors and AWD just like the S4) IS NOT EVEN $4K.Look at what I posted above. Audi S4 base price is $45,900. BMW 335i xDrive sedan base price is $42,300. That is a difference of only $3,600 and the price difference is reduced even further considering the BMW offers less standard equipment.When the price difference is at maximum $3,600 and more like closer to $2,800 when options are considered, on cars costing close to $48K, then YES, the cars are competitors. — GermanNut (View Profile)
The price difference between the Audi S4 and the BMW 335i xDrive sedan (obviously the S4's closest BMW competitor b/c it has 4-doors and AWD just like the S4) IS NOT EVEN $4K.Look at what I posted above. Audi S4 base price is $45,900. BMW 335i xDrive sedan base price is $42,300. That is a difference of only $3,600 and the price difference is reduced even further considering the BMW offers less standard equipment.When the price difference is at maximum $3,600 and more like closer to $2,800 when options are considered, on cars costing close to $48K, then YES, the cars are competitors.
Posted on 9/8/2009 10:51:05 AM | | Votes: 0
Invisible, (aka amazinBimmer) that isn't a lot of coin if your so-called "fancy Jetta" routinely spanks the BMW 335i :)Look at all these reviews which have the Audi S4 defeating the BMW 335i!:http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/238324/audi_s4_v_bmw_335i_v_mitsubishi_evo_x_fq330.htmlhttp://img108.imageshack.us/i/scan010004de9.jpg/ http://www.autospies.com/news/B8-Audi-S4-vs-BMW-335i-xDrive-vs-Mitsubishi-Lancer-Evo-40340/http://www.germancarzone.com/internal-combustion/29471-sportauto-bmw-335i-vs-audi-s4-w211-e63-amg-vs-rs6.htmlObviously BMW has some work to do. With the S4 Audi has clearly created a car with better-performance at a highly-competitive price compared to the BMW 335i. Even more convincing is the fact that Audi no-longer offers the A4 with the 3.2L V6 (it is just the 2.0L 4-banger or the S4's supercharged V6) which effectively makes the arguement that the comparisons should really be between the A4 3.2 V6 and the BMW 335i and the Audi S4 with the BMW M3 useless. — GermanNut (View Profile)
Invisible, (aka amazinBimmer) that isn't a lot of coin if your so-called "fancy Jetta" routinely spanks the BMW 335i :)Look at all these reviews which have the Audi S4 defeating the BMW 335i!:http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/238324/audi_s4_v_bmw_335i_v_mitsubishi_evo_x_fq330.htmlhttp://img108.imageshack.us/i/scan010004de9.jpg/ http://www.autospies.com/news/B8-Audi-S4-vs-BMW-335i-xDrive-vs-Mitsubishi-Lancer-Evo-40340/http://www.germancarzone.com/internal-combustion/29471-sportauto-bmw-335i-vs-audi-s4-w211-e63-amg-vs-rs6.htmlObviously BMW has some work to do. With the S4 Audi has clearly created a car with better-performance at a highly-competitive price compared to the BMW 335i. Even more convincing is the fact that Audi no-longer offers the A4 with the 3.2L V6 (it is just the 2.0L 4-banger or the S4's supercharged V6) which effectively makes the arguement that the comparisons should really be between the A4 3.2 V6 and the BMW 335i and the Audi S4 with the BMW M3 useless.
Posted on 9/8/2009 10:23:02 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1
German Nut -1... In this comparison on the track. 2010 Audi S4 with Sport package vs. 2009 BMw 335i sedan WithOut a Sport Package. The Audi bested it by .3 of a second. How bout compare the BMW 335i w/ a sport package? I bet the BMW makes up the difference due to tighter suspension and larger wheels. http://www.germancarzone.com/internal-combustion/29471-sportauto-bmw-335i-vs-audi-s4-w211-e63-amg-vs-rs6.html2...Audi wins the first part of the test. BMW wins the Comfort Section 727 to Audi 723. BMW wins Engine & transmission 589 to 578 for Audi. Dynamics go to Audi 757 vs BMW 685, but BMW is a standard 335xi instead of the sport package 335xi sedan. Enviroment & costs goes to BMW 334 vs Audi 314. Audi ends up winning, yet again a Sport Package Audi S4 vs. a Non-Sport Package BMW 335xi. How bout compare both car with the Sport Package & see who comes out on top? http://www.autospies.com/news/B8-Audi-S4-vs-BMW-335i-xDrive-vs-Mitsubishi-Lancer-Evo-40340/— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)
German Nut -1... In this comparison on the track. 2010 Audi S4 with Sport package vs. 2009 BMw 335i sedan WithOut a Sport Package. The Audi bested it by .3 of a second. How bout compare the BMW 335i w/ a sport package? I bet the BMW makes up the difference due to tighter suspension and larger wheels. http://www.germancarzone.com/internal-combustion/29471-sportauto-bmw-335i-vs-audi-s4-w211-e63-amg-vs-rs6.html2...Audi wins the first part of the test. BMW wins the Comfort Section 727 to Audi 723. BMW wins Engine & transmission 589 to 578 for Audi. Dynamics go to Audi 757 vs BMW 685, but BMW is a standard 335xi instead of the sport package 335xi sedan. Enviroment & costs goes to BMW 334 vs Audi 314. Audi ends up winning, yet again a Sport Package Audi S4 vs. a Non-Sport Package BMW 335xi. How bout compare both car with the Sport Package & see who comes out on top? http://www.autospies.com/news/B8-Audi-S4-vs-BMW-335i-xDrive-vs-Mitsubishi-Lancer-Evo-40340/
Posted on 9/8/2009 4:24:29 PM | | Votes: 1
BMW4Me4Ever, how about the test results from that very same Auto Motor Und Sport article:http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/4782/scan010003td9.jpgSorry, your sport package equipped 335i will not make up a 2.6 second difference up to 200 km/hr.I prove my point the Audi S4 is faster than the BMW 335i.— GermanNut (View Profile)
BMW4Me4Ever, how about the test results from that very same Auto Motor Und Sport article:http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/4782/scan010003td9.jpgSorry, your sport package equipped 335i will not make up a 2.6 second difference up to 200 km/hr.I prove my point the Audi S4 is faster than the BMW 335i.
Posted on 9/8/2009 8:09:51 PM | | Votes: -2
German Nut - Answer me this, How come their test was the slowest test I have ever seen done for a 335 sedan? Also, your arguement doesnt carry much weight. Around a track, the difference between a low profile 18" wheels and 17" wheels with higher sidewalls, with the same driver could improve their time by about 1 second to 2. The wheels and tires alone provide more confidence in the handling. Not to mention the suspension upgrade that comes along with it. — BMW4me4ever (View Profile)
German Nut - Answer me this, How come their test was the slowest test I have ever seen done for a 335 sedan? Also, your arguement doesnt carry much weight. Around a track, the difference between a low profile 18" wheels and 17" wheels with higher sidewalls, with the same driver could improve their time by about 1 second to 2. The wheels and tires alone provide more confidence in the handling. Not to mention the suspension upgrade that comes along with it.
Posted on 9/10/2009 4:16:11 PM | | Votes: 2
And Oh yeah... Neither the 335 or the S4 gets me going. Both cars leave more the be desired IMO. The Audi S4 looks exactly like an A4 2.0t, a car that costs about $10k less. And the BMW 335 needs an LSD for me to even give it a passing glance (not to mention DCT among plenty of other things).There are folks here hailing the Audi's AWD system over BMW's AWD system. You do realize that the AWD system in the Mitsubishi EVO X is far more advanced than Audi's AWD system? — LexSucks (View Profile)
And Oh yeah... Neither the 335 or the S4 gets me going. Both cars leave more the be desired IMO. The Audi S4 looks exactly like an A4 2.0t, a car that costs about $10k less. And the BMW 335 needs an LSD for me to even give it a passing glance (not to mention DCT among plenty of other things).There are folks here hailing the Audi's AWD system over BMW's AWD system. You do realize that the AWD system in the Mitsubishi EVO X is far more advanced than Audi's AWD system?
Posted on 9/8/2009 10:26:41 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1
These people do not know what the Mitsubishi EVO is because they never see them at their country clubs and do not have a Posh Louis Vitton handbag interior for da women! — pennfootball (View Profile)
These people do not know what the Mitsubishi EVO is because they never see them at their country clubs and do not have a Posh Louis Vitton handbag interior for da women!
— pennfootball (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 11:35:30 AM | | Votes: 1
LexSucks, yes, the Audi S4 does look a lot like the Audi A4 2.0T with S-line package, but it does not look like the regular non-S-line A4. The whole point of Audi's S4 is to be a Q-car (a car that blends in but offers strong performance). Audi has achieved this goal beautifully. Look at the Audi R8 V10 versus the V8 version. Only the trained eye can spot the differences, which is the way Audi obviously intended it to be.Audi can clearly differentiate their cars if they want to. Look at the RS-cars with the honeycomb front grilles, bulging wheel arches, huge rims, and dual oval exhausts in the rear.Secondly, LexSucks, you do realize that Audi and BMW owners who are look to drop $45-50K on their cars usually don't cross-shop them with a non-luxury brand, $35K car that offers inferior performance. — GermanNut (View Profile)
LexSucks, yes, the Audi S4 does look a lot like the Audi A4 2.0T with S-line package, but it does not look like the regular non-S-line A4. The whole point of Audi's S4 is to be a Q-car (a car that blends in but offers strong performance). Audi has achieved this goal beautifully. Look at the Audi R8 V10 versus the V8 version. Only the trained eye can spot the differences, which is the way Audi obviously intended it to be.Audi can clearly differentiate their cars if they want to. Look at the RS-cars with the honeycomb front grilles, bulging wheel arches, huge rims, and dual oval exhausts in the rear.Secondly, LexSucks, you do realize that Audi and BMW owners who are look to drop $45-50K on their cars usually don't cross-shop them with a non-luxury brand, $35K car that offers inferior performance.
Posted on 9/8/2009 10:45:43 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1
inferior performance my ass they had an EVO beat a Lamborghini Mercilago around the track on top gear a few years ago! You need a CAT scan STAT!— pennfootball (View Profile)
inferior performance my ass they had an EVO beat a Lamborghini Mercilago around the track on top gear a few years ago! You need a CAT scan STAT!
Posted on 9/8/2009 11:37:23 AM | | Votes: 2
GermanNut,Congratulations! You are the only person I know, other than myself, who has used the phrase "Q-car" to describe the Audi S4. It's derived from "Q-ship", an antisubmarine vessel developed by the British during World War I.It describes the S4 perfectly. It looks like a sleek, classy but otherwise ordinary sedan, yet it can take a lot of sports cars and sports sedans. I hate "boy racer" effects like agressive spoilers and body-cladding.— Audiphile (View Profile)
GermanNut,Congratulations! You are the only person I know, other than myself, who has used the phrase "Q-car" to describe the Audi S4. It's derived from "Q-ship", an antisubmarine vessel developed by the British during World War I.It describes the S4 perfectly. It looks like a sleek, classy but otherwise ordinary sedan, yet it can take a lot of sports cars and sports sedans. I hate "boy racer" effects like agressive spoilers and body-cladding.
— Audiphile (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 12:26:09 PM | | Votes: 1
GermanNut,Inferior Performance? In which ways? A $35k car that will walk circles around the BMW 335 around a race track. It isn't even close between the EVO X and the BMW 335 around the track. The EVO has LSD, Torque vectoring (Something that BMW is just now starting to develop BTW), AWC. The BMW 335 has none of that. The Audi just has a Sport-Differential (which is great BTW) but still lagging behind in Go-Fast hardware when compared to an EVO X. These are facts that aren’t really up for debate. And in a straight-Line? The 2 are pretty much neck-and-neck. I guarantee you that the EVO X will be able to outperform the S4 as well, since the S4 and 335 are "Competitors" and all and have similar performance.— LexSucks (View Profile)
GermanNut,Inferior Performance? In which ways? A $35k car that will walk circles around the BMW 335 around a race track. It isn't even close between the EVO X and the BMW 335 around the track. The EVO has LSD, Torque vectoring (Something that BMW is just now starting to develop BTW), AWC. The BMW 335 has none of that. The Audi just has a Sport-Differential (which is great BTW) but still lagging behind in Go-Fast hardware when compared to an EVO X. These are facts that aren’t really up for debate. And in a straight-Line? The 2 are pretty much neck-and-neck. I guarantee you that the EVO X will be able to outperform the S4 as well, since the S4 and 335 are "Competitors" and all and have similar performance.
Posted on 9/8/2009 1:19:13 PM | | Votes: 1
And I meant the say A4 S-line 2.0t. I know the differences between the regular A4 and the S-line. I just wish that the differences between the S-line and the S4 were more obvious visually. Other than a different choice of Optional 19" rims (you can also get 19" wheels on the S-line, just not the same style as the S4's 19" wheels), "V6t" badge, and 2 sided dual-tip exhausts, there isn't any difference visually between them. — LexSucks (View Profile)
And I meant the say A4 S-line 2.0t. I know the differences between the regular A4 and the S-line. I just wish that the differences between the S-line and the S4 were more obvious visually. Other than a different choice of Optional 19" rims (you can also get 19" wheels on the S-line, just not the same style as the S4's 19" wheels), "V6t" badge, and 2 sided dual-tip exhausts, there isn't any difference visually between them.
Posted on 9/8/2009 1:36:50 PM | | Votes: 0
BMW needs better reliability come to think of it so does Audi, VW and even Mercedes...JA gu buy Das German AUTO you Vill have to pay! Buy Japanese you won't go around a corner as fast but your car will start and not blow up if you hit a pot hole. — pennfootball (View Profile)
BMW needs better reliability come to think of it so does Audi, VW and even Mercedes...JA gu buy Das German AUTO you Vill have to pay! Buy Japanese you won't go around a corner as fast but your car will start and not blow up if you hit a pot hole.
Posted on 9/8/2009 11:33:06 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0
"Buy Japanese you won't go around a corner as fast"- That depends on which Japanese car you choose. They're are some that go around corners faster. GT-R, STI, EVO anyone?— LexSucks (View Profile)
"Buy Japanese you won't go around a corner as fast"- That depends on which Japanese car you choose. They're are some that go around corners faster. GT-R, STI, EVO anyone?
Posted on 9/8/2009 1:59:48 PM | | Votes: 1
What does BMW need to do to counter the attack?Is is really an "attack". Has competing in the arena become "attacking"?If BMW needs to do anything it is to reel the acid-head art-project styling in a little, stop the Playstation "drive-by-wire" controls and put the "ultimate driving machine" back in the DNA.— SteedPub (View Profile)
What does BMW need to do to counter the attack?Is is really an "attack". Has competing in the arena become "attacking"?If BMW needs to do anything it is to reel the acid-head art-project styling in a little, stop the Playstation "drive-by-wire" controls and put the "ultimate driving machine" back in the DNA.
— SteedPub (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 11:42:55 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0
just so i understand the intro paragraph to this posting...the 2 year old 335i is 'aging' and, despite the fact that no direct competitor has matched the 335i, bmw 'needs to kick it up a notch.'really? the S4 is a great car...but it chassis and handling are not match for the 335i. — enthusiastx11 (View Profile)
just so i understand the intro paragraph to this posting...the 2 year old 335i is 'aging' and, despite the fact that no direct competitor has matched the 335i, bmw 'needs to kick it up a notch.'really? the S4 is a great car...but it chassis and handling are not match for the 335i.
Posted on 9/8/2009 12:16:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1
Sure, the S4 is a great car. Yes, the BMW 335i has a better chassis and handling than the S4.On the other hand, the 335i's xDrive system is no match for the S4's Quattro AWD system or its straight-line performance.So I think if you want chassis and handling go 335i.If you want AWD and straight-line speed go S4.— GermanNut (View Profile)
Sure, the S4 is a great car. Yes, the BMW 335i has a better chassis and handling than the S4.On the other hand, the 335i's xDrive system is no match for the S4's Quattro AWD system or its straight-line performance.So I think if you want chassis and handling go 335i.If you want AWD and straight-line speed go S4.
Posted on 9/8/2009 1:32:47 PM | | Votes: -3
German Nut - On the other hand, the 335i's xDrive system is no match for the S4's Quattro AWD system or its straight-line performance. Huh? What are you talking about? The BMW 335xi is stated by BMW to have str8 line performance in 5.3 seconds. In reality, every car magazine on the planet has tested it at 4.7 to 5.0. The Audi S4 is right at 4.9 to 5.0. That appears to be the same. at least last time I checked. — BMW4me4ever (View Profile)
German Nut - On the other hand, the 335i's xDrive system is no match for the S4's Quattro AWD system or its straight-line performance. Huh? What are you talking about? The BMW 335xi is stated by BMW to have str8 line performance in 5.3 seconds. In reality, every car magazine on the planet has tested it at 4.7 to 5.0. The Audi S4 is right at 4.9 to 5.0. That appears to be the same. at least last time I checked.
Posted on 9/8/2009 3:56:35 PM | | Votes: 2
I am going to actually pick-up my new Audi S4 this week that I ordered. The total price was $64,000 with every option imaginable including Sport Diff, cameras, Bang and Olfusen, Lane departure, etc. So, this is definitely less than the previous V8 S4 which would have been about $68,000 loaded with less features than the new one. Audi has done good in its pricing structure.— VISO (View Profile)
I am going to actually pick-up my new Audi S4 this week that I ordered. The total price was $64,000 with every option imaginable including Sport Diff, cameras, Bang and Olfusen, Lane departure, etc. So, this is definitely less than the previous V8 S4 which would have been about $68,000 loaded with less features than the new one. Audi has done good in its pricing structure.
— VISO (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 12:17:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1
I'll probably be doing the same thing in a few months, VISO.— Audiphile (View Profile)
I'll probably be doing the same thing in a few months, VISO.
Posted on 9/8/2009 12:27:08 PM | | Votes: 2
Congrats Audiphile. Slip me an note and we can compare.— VISO (View Profile)
Congrats Audiphile. Slip me an note and we can compare.
Posted on 9/8/2009 2:50:28 PM | | Votes: 2
Most 335i enthusiasts already have some kind of tune - for $379 and 30 mins of time you can have 340-350hp at the back wheels.BMW however needs to lighten the car and at least provide the option of an LSD. I'm on my second and I have no problem at all with the Steptronic.— lewishamiltonpimp (View Profile)
Most 335i enthusiasts already have some kind of tune - for $379 and 30 mins of time you can have 340-350hp at the back wheels.BMW however needs to lighten the car and at least provide the option of an LSD. I'm on my second and I have no problem at all with the Steptronic.
— lewishamiltonpimp (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 1:46:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0
$68k for an S4 which offers little more (if any) performance than a BMW 335!? Ouch! At that price I'd take an M3 which offers far more performance than the S4, just as much luxury(more with the extended leather package), Looks more aggressive, and has a nicer sounding 8000 rpm V8. Too each his own I guess.The M3 also has a nicer stance with the traditional power bulge and just looks the part. The S4 can easily be confused with an A4 2.0t S-line. The M3 will never be confused with a 335. — LexSucks (View Profile)
$68k for an S4 which offers little more (if any) performance than a BMW 335!? Ouch! At that price I'd take an M3 which offers far more performance than the S4, just as much luxury(more with the extended leather package), Looks more aggressive, and has a nicer sounding 8000 rpm V8. Too each his own I guess.The M3 also has a nicer stance with the traditional power bulge and just looks the part. The S4 can easily be confused with an A4 2.0t S-line. The M3 will never be confused with a 335.
Posted on 9/8/2009 1:54:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1
LexSucks you forgot to read that VISO's S4 was $64K NOT $68K and it was FULLY-LOADED. Most S4's are not full-loaded hence they will be at least $8-10K cheaper. That brings the price of most S4's down to $54-56K and that price includes $8-10K worth of options over the base price.The M3 sedan base price is $54K and $2K can't even get you a premium or sport package. — GermanNut (View Profile)
LexSucks you forgot to read that VISO's S4 was $64K NOT $68K and it was FULLY-LOADED. Most S4's are not full-loaded hence they will be at least $8-10K cheaper. That brings the price of most S4's down to $54-56K and that price includes $8-10K worth of options over the base price.The M3 sedan base price is $54K and $2K can't even get you a premium or sport package.
Posted on 9/8/2009 2:14:14 PM | | Votes: 1
Actually, the new S4 offer substantial luxury with an amazing interior and features galore. And the performance is spot on at this level. The various options make the S4 well worth. Cannot wait to see the 3-D map in action with navigation.— VISO (View Profile)
Actually, the new S4 offer substantial luxury with an amazing interior and features galore. And the performance is spot on at this level. The various options make the S4 well worth. Cannot wait to see the 3-D map in action with navigation.
Posted on 9/8/2009 2:53:02 PM | | Votes: -1
VISO - goto your local BMW dealer to see the 3-D map in action with Navigation— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)
VISO - goto your local BMW dealer to see the 3-D map in action with Navigation
Posted on 9/8/2009 4:30:18 PM | | Votes: 2
i know im late here but please you idiots the s4 goes against the 335 not the m3 so stop already — markanthony0419 (View Profile)
i know im late here but please you idiots the s4 goes against the 335 not the m3 so stop already
— markanthony0419 (View Profile)
Posted on 9/8/2009 3:13:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3
What's up with this article? If the S4 is supposed to compete against a 335i, then what's the big shocker that both cars cost the same?I take it Audi has no M3 competitor here then.— huu76 (View Profile)
What's up with this article? If the S4 is supposed to compete against a 335i, then what's the big shocker that both cars cost the same?I take it Audi has no M3 competitor here then.
Posted on 9/8/2009 5:22:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1
Why would want to got a BMW dealer when I can see the 3-D at an Audi dealer. No thanks!— VISO (View Profile)
Why would want to got a BMW dealer when I can see the 3-D at an Audi dealer. No thanks!
Posted on 9/8/2009 5:53:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1
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