Because Twin Turbos Aren't Simply Enough? BMW X5 May Use Tri-Turbo Diesel Engine

I know 001 one will like this..

— NItePhire (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2009 10:30:50 AM | | Votes: 3   

Sitting in a vehicle will not make it green. Nor cheap. Nor use less fuel then when tested.

— Joe_Limon (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2009 12:40:52 PM | | Votes: 6   

Yo, Blue Hair, obviously the LX570 is anything but green. But, surprise surprise, it's miles ahead in efficiency than Mercedes GL 320 Bluetec DIESEL when taking LX power into account.

Let's see. To cover 15.000 miles (45% highway, 55% city driving split) the LX570 needs 24,5 barrels of oil and emits 13.1 tons of CO2. [1]

For the same distance the Mercedes GL 320 Bluetec DIESEL needs 20.7 barrels of oil and emits 11.1 tons of CO2. [2]

The problem is the Lexus is a V8 380HP off-road ready machine. The GL Bluetec diesel is 215 HP oversized urban soccer mum bulk carrier.

So the Lexus LX is 18% less efficient but whopping 78% more powerful! And it never needs AdBlue fill up to be relatively clean, likely cleaner than Bluetec diesel. Its turbochargers will never fail. Cause it doesn't have any. It's fuel supply and exhaust treatment systems are much sipler thus more reliable, cheaper to maintain.

You see? Even a stupid old fashioned petrol mastodont engine is much more efficient than ulta modern diesel when you take power figures into account.

The only reasons why BMW engineers push this diesel nonsense are massive sunk cost in this technology they already bear and packs of brainwashed customers in Europe who will buy inferior technology that works well in ships and septic tank trucks only.

Sources:
[1] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2009&make=Lexus&model=LX%20570&hiddenField=Findacar
[2]http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2009&make=Mercedes-Benz&model=GL320%20Bluetec&hiddenField=Findacar

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2009 12:54:44 PM | | Votes: -11   

fine, I have used numbers to prove the LX570's inferiority, and now I shall use your same tactic. The Denali's comfort and luxury are bested by no one! The engine is bigger more powerful and more fuel efficient then the smaller weaker more polluting Lexus. The ride in a Yukon is par none! The Escalade is close, but you need tinted windows if you ever want to own/drive an Escalade. Why don't you read some reviews and find out why GM still sells more full sized SUV's then any other manufacturer. :) it feels good to argue without using numbers.

— Joe_Limon (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2009 12:58:44 PM | | Votes: 4   

"The problem is the Lexus is a V8 380HP off-road ready machine. The GL Bluetec diesel is 215 HP oversized urban soccer mum bulk carrier."


Oh please. Not this bullshit again. The Mercedes GL is just as offroad capable as the LX. Read some reviews and see the praises this SUV has garnered for its offroad capability.

You strike me as one of those people who thinks the GL is a softroader just because it has a Mercedes badge. FYI every Mercedes SUV on the market at the moment is quite offroad capable to very high standards. The G, GL, GLK and ML are all worthy performers in this criteria. Read some reviews, then comment.

— Wimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2009 1:59:11 PM | | Votes: 8   

Key idea of my comment was how inefficient BlueTECs are. And I proved my point by quoting credible sources, as I always do. This was waterproof so you had no other option left than being picky about details of less importance.

Me:
| "The problem is the Lexus is a V8 380HP off-road ready
| machine. The GL Bluetec diesel is 215 HP oversized urban
| soccer mum bulk carrier."

— Wimmer
| Oh please. Not this bullshit again. The Mercedes GL is
| just as offroad capable as the LX.

This is a perfect example of a German joke. Or symptoms of serious poisoning with Sauerkraut - saying every possible nonsense to make German cars look fair.

Sorry chap, but LX 570 comes as STANDARD [1] with
- manually lockable center limited slip TorSen differential
- crawl control
- downhill assist control
- hill-start assist control
(military vehicles usually also comes with all of those above)

The Mercedes GL 320 CDI BlueTEC urban mum bulk carrier comes with... NONE of these [2]. You can't even add such equipment.

But don't worry. You can still order all weather floor mats. Makes you invincible off-road when storming Karakorum in a GL.


| You strike me as one of those people who thinks the GL is
| a softroader just because it has a Mercedes badge.

See above.


| FYI every Mercedes SUV on the market at the moment is
| quite offroad capable to very high standards.

It is more capable than BMW X5 (which is absolutely immune to offroading) or Audi Q7 (not much better). But don't even mention the GL with Land Cruiser and LX in one grasp. It just gives you bad name.


[1] http://www.lexus.com/models/LX/detailed_specifications.html
[2] http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/MBHome.html#/vehiclesMenu/exploreSpecs/?vc=GL&vmf=GL320BTC&yr=2009

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2009 3:28:56 PM | | Votes: -7   

Torsen's suck, we use them in our formula car, and we are trying to get away from it. As to all those electronic nannies, I don't think actual rock crawlers and things you will find in the bush have them. meh, back to the topic, a tri turbo diesel would be effing sweet!

— Joe_Limon (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2009 4:19:01 PM | | Votes: 3   

I bet MrBratworst and david999/969 have adjacent carrels inside the toylex internet propaganda center.

— America (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2009 6:32:57 PM | | Votes: 7   

My brother has an ML350 which he regularly takes on offroad excursions in the mountains of Colorado where he lives. He's also part of an offroad club made up of SUVs from all brands, be it mainstream of luxury. I've been along for the ride twice before and let me tell you, the ML is a damn fine offroader and very capable in difficult terrain.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2009 7:37:22 PM | | Votes: 5   

— MrBratwurst "The problem is the Lexus is a V8 380HP off-road ready
| machine."

Hey, I'm off-road alot I have yet to see a LX or GX in the back-country. Oh by the way should you be whining about the fuel economy of the LX like you did on the BMW 760, or does't it count because its a Lexus.

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2009 9:00:46 PM | | Votes: 4   

— America

| I bet MrBratworst and david999/969 have adjacent carrels
| inside the toylex internet propaganda center.

I post credible sources every time I make a statement. You don't even know why I do this, Star/EL34.


— Joe_Limon

| Torsen's suck

Tell this to Audi engineers who have built the legend of quattro on TorSen center differential. And continue to do so. Tell this to Subaru, Land Cruiser, Lancer Evo, Focus RS (well, not TorSen but a very similar setup) engineers as well.

| we use them in our formula car, and we are trying to get
| away from it.

Because TorSen type diffs don't work well in racing. Too much lateral G which makes inner wheels virtually devoid of traction, situation which does not allow TorSen based systems to do their magic. In ordinary everyday road usage there's not better differential though.

| As to all those electronic nannies, I don't think actual
| rock crawlers and things you will find in the bush have
| them.

Whatever. Its presence identifies vehicle purpose. GL on the other hand has no such things cause it's key purpose is to make you feel "bigger" in the urban jungle.

| meh, back to the topic, a tri turbo diesel would be
| effing sweet!

It will just extend diesel pointlessness.


— Willis

| let me tell you, the ML is a damn fine offroader and very
| capable in difficult terrain.

When equipped with two additional diff locks (center and rear), it is. But you cannot have those on GL BlueTEC diesel. Why? I already explained.


— theoptimisticpessimist

| Hey, I'm off-road alot I have yet to see a LX or GX in
| the back-country.

It's not car maker fault people buy off road capable vehicles and virtually don't use them as intended. How many 22 inch rims low profile tires Range Rovers leave tarmac?

| Oh by the way should you be whining about the fuel
| economy of the LX like you did on the BMW 760

At the very start I made it rather clear LX is a very environmentally unfriendly vehicle. I just wanted to prove that GL BlueTEC diesel is actually even worse. I made it because a lot of people have been misled diesels are "eco-friendly".

| or does't it count because its a Lexus.

Why are you imputing that my views are brand-related? Can't you see I prove my point quoting sources? And then I prefer a more fuel efficient vehicle, not a particularly badged vehicle?

There are dozens of tools commenting on this site who are absolutely ignorant in terms of automotive technology and are here to promote some brands and make others look bad. Sorry, but I have nothing in common with them.

To give you an example:

If you are in need for a 7-seater children carrier SUV, you should buy AAA BBB Hybrid instead of XXX YYY diesel (even the first one offers disappointing performance in my opinion though).

Why?

Because to cover 15.000 miles (55% city, 45% highway split) AAA BBB Hybrid needs 13.2 barrels of oil and does 0-60 [1] in 7.5 sec.

Meanwhile, XXX YYY

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 4/11/2009 3:48:41 AM | | Votes: -3   

Meanwhile, XXX YYY diesel needs 20.7 barrels of oil [2] (57% more) to do so while achieving 0-60 in some 8.5 sec (13% slower).

Now will you tell I prefer superior, more efficient technology or will you accuse me of being biased to AAA badge, although such one does not exist in the world of motoring?

Sources:
[1] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2009&make=Toyota&model=Highlander%20Hybrid%204WD&hiddenField=Findacar
[2] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2009&make=Mercedes-Benz&model=GL320%20Bluetec&hiddenField=Findacar

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 4/11/2009 3:49:08 AM | | Votes: -2   

MrBratwurst

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." – Mark Twain

Here is the fallacy in your argument; first “55% city, 45% highway split” is not a split it a city bias favoring the hybrids, my commute is 75 % highway and 25 city, so your information is useless to me Which vehicle is better for a individual will depend are their driving conditions. Biased is shown in your choice of cars you are using as comparison vehicles the Toyota Highlander is NOT a competitor for the Mercedes Benz GL. Again your stats are biased and are just used to prove your argument and are not real world relevant.

“So the Lexus LX is 18% less efficient but whopping 78% more powerful!”
Well that’s not exactly true is it.

Here is the raw data a came up with; (supplied by manufactures respective websites)

MB GL 320 LX 570

HP 215 383 Advantage Lexus
Torque 398 403 Advantage Lexus

MPG
City 17 12 Advantage MB
Highway 23 18 Advantage MB


Vehicle weight
LBS 5313 5995 Advantage MB 682 lbs

Vehicle price
$58,200 $75,855 Advantage MB $17,655

It also seems the Mercedes uses 682 pounds less of natural resources and fuel use to transport them. I noticed that when you state “whopping 78% more powerful!” you neglected to mention torque numbers which are a mere 1% less than the Lexus but the LX extra weight gives a clear advantage to the Mercedes. When I shift into 4 low I’m looking for torque not horsepower. Which one would I take off road, neither their both to big.

As far as you other arguments go, I have read your past post, and you do show a strong anti German car bias and pro Asian. There is nothing wrong with that, everybody on opinion is their right. To claim your like more fuel efficient cars when you quickly jump far to quickly to the defense of the LF-A (a V10) the GTR (by no means an economy car) and the LX (a near 3 ton behemoth with a combined fuel economy of 14 mpg)is a bit convenient.


As a firm believer if free speech, say what you want but realize that your stats on closer examination are just spin.

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 4/11/2009 12:39:18 PM | | Votes: 2   

In much the same way that torsen's suck in racing, they also suck off road where lifting wheels is a huge issue. 30 years ago the Torsen was god among everything 4wd. Now it is outdated by numerous better differentials. If a company sells vehicles with nannies that will never be used... that means the people who buy that vehicle are getting ripped off.

— Joe_Limon (View Profile)

Posted on 4/11/2009 1:01:44 PM | | Votes: 1   

You are such a Negative-Nelly. These turbo engines are winning awards right and left just like their normally aspirated predecessors did. The problem with most turbo engines is lag and non-linear power delivery. BMW solved those problems. The turbo solves other problems such as providing higher fuel economy when the engine isn't being pushed hard.

Just stop with your cynicism. It isn't healthy and it makes you look silly.

— America (View Profile)

Posted on 4/11/2009 3:58:49 AM | | Votes: 4   

"Toyota on the other hand is making an effort to better our world with reliable cars and hybrids."


Toyota should make an effort to better Japan. Japan has had a stagnant economy for most of the last 20 years, they have the third highest debt load of any country, in 2008 they only exported half as much as Germany did and now that their exports have fallen through the floor they import more than they export. Japanese manufacturers are also constantly "benchmarking" their German competitors but still never quite match up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123554066238668421.html

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/11/2009 1:41:06 PM | | Votes: 4   

Don't quote out of context Huu.

----

And I gave you a link showing where Japan ranks for debt as a percentage of GDP and they are the third most indebted nation. You're right, though, that most of its debt is domestically held but it's still debt unless those creditors don't expect to be repaid.

-

Examples of where Japanese manufacturers benchmarked German cars:

Nissan benchmarked the Porsche 911 turbo for their GT-R

Road and Track magazine:

“That Nissan used the Porsche 911 Turbo as the benchmark for the GT-R is no secret; simply look at the hundreds of spy shots of the masked Nissan, and you'll see a Porsche 911 Turbo close by.”

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=6201

-


Lexus benchmarked the Mercedes S-Class for their LS sedan

Edmunds:

“We'll admit the more muscular, chiseled exterior design is indeed fresher-looking, but there's no mistaking the LS 430 for anything but the Euro-clone interpretation of a Mercedes S-Class that it has always been.”

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=115368

-

Lexus benchmarked the BMW M3 for their IS-F

EGMCarTech:

“According to Yukihiko Yaguchi, chief engineer for the Lexus IS-F: ‘Since we were coming after the M3, there were numerical targets we had to hit, but those were not my target. There were some critical 0-60 targets, but most important was that it be fun to drive.’”

http://www.egmcartech.com/2007/11/12/lexus-chief-engineer-bmw-m3-provided-benchmark-for-lexus-is-f/

-


Infiniti benchmarked the BMW 3-Series for their G35

Edmunds:

“The G35 reminds me of the Lexus IS 300. Both are relatively new designs. Both are from car companies that didn't exist 15 years ago. Both were obviously benchmarked against the BMW 3 Series. And, most importantly, both fall short of their intended target.”

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=73569/pageId=29724

-

Lexus benchmarked the BMW 3-Series for their IS-350

Car and Driver:

“Every criticism leveled at the too-small, too-slow, too-odd IS300 was fed into Toyota's engineering supercomputer along with a photo of the BMW 3-series with a few dart holes punched into it, and out popped the IS350.”

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/2005_acura_tl_vs_2005_audi_a4_2006_bmw_330i_and_five_more_entry_luxury_sedans_comparison_test/2006_lexus_is350_comparison_test

-

Edmunds:

“’You see, Walton, despite his boyish mien, is actually 76 years old. This means that he has been obliged to write the BMW-3-Series-wins-again story approximately 83 times in his lengthy career. It goes something like this: "Oh, Competitor X is getting pretty close. It's a real sport sedan now. It's quite good. Oh, forget it. BMW wins!’"

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=120903/pageId=124116


-


Mazda benchmarked the GTI for their Mazda Speed3

Edmunds:

“…Chief Engineer Tatsuo Maeda p

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/11/2009 10:59:41 PM | | Votes: 3   

continued ...

Mazda benchmarked the GTI for their Mazda Speed3

Edmunds:

“…Chief Engineer Tatsuo Maeda pulled no punches when he said that his team's benchmark during the Axela MPS's development was the GTI, but with the intent to take the total package to the next level.”

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=116119

------

Japanese Space Agency

The Japanese space agency tried to go it alone designing their own rocket (H-IIA) but ended up having to license the solid rocket booster design from the Americans because their booster design was a total failure.

"ATK Thiokol Propulsion Company, Promontory, Utah, designed the composite rocket motor case for the H-IIA vehicle's two ground-lit Solid-Rocket Boosters (SRB-As), using proven technology from its CASTOR 120® motor. The company also supplied its patented TCR™ graphite-epoxy, preimpregnated (prepreg) resin materials for use in constructing the case. The case technology was provided under an export license approved by the U.S. State Department."

http://atk.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=118&item=304

-----

German Rocket Scientist Built the U.S. Space Program

December 31, 2007
Huntsville Journal
When the Germans, and Rockets, Came to Town
By SHAILA DEWAN

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. — In 1950, this cotton market town in northern Alabama lost a bid for a military aviation project that would have revived its mothballed arsenal. The consolation prize was dubious: 118 German rocket scientists who had surrendered to the Americans during World War II, led by a man — a crackpot, evidently — who claimed humans could visit the moon.

Ultimately those German immigrants made history, launching the first American satellite, Explorer I, into orbit in January 1958 and putting astronauts on the moon in 1969. The crackpot, Wernher von Braun, was celebrated as a visionary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/us/31huntsville.html?pagewanted=print

Also Google "Operation Paperclip" and "Operation Lusty"

------

Here is a list of non-Jewish German Nobel Prize science winners:

Wilhelm Roentgen
Karl Ferdinand Braun
Wilhelm Wien
Max von Laue
Max Planck
Johannes Stark
Werner Heisenberg
Walther Bothe
Rudolf Mossbauer
Johannes Hans Daniel Jensen
Klaus von Klitzing
Ernst Ruska
Gerd Binnig
Johannes Georg Bednorz
Horst Ludwig Stormer
Wolfgang Ketterle
Theodor W. Hansch
Peter Grunberg
Hermann Emil Fischer
Adolf von Baeyer
Eduard Buchner
Wilhelm Ostwald
Walther Nernst
Heinrich Otto Wieland
Adolf Otto Reinhold Windaus
Hans Fischer
Carl Bosch
Friedrich Bergius
Richard Kuhn
Adolf Butenandt
Otto Hahn
Otto Diels
Kurt Alder
Hermann Staudinger
Karl Waldemar Ziegler
Manfred Eigen
Ernst Otto Fischer
Georg Wittig
Johann Deisenhofer
Robert Huber
Hartmut Michel
Gerhard Ertl
Emil Adolf von Behring
Robert Koch
Albrecht Kossel
Hans Spemann
Gerhard Domagk
Werner Forssmann
Feodor Felix Konrad Lynen
Georges J. F. Kohler
Erwin Neher
Bert Sakmann

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/11/2009 11:00:49 PM | | Votes: 3   

continued ...

Bert Sakmann
Christiane Nusslein-Volhard
Gunter Blobel

-

In comparison here is the list of all Japanese Nobel Science prize winners:


Hideki Yukawa
Shinichiro Tomonaga
Leo Esaki
Masatoshi Koshiba
Kenichi Fukui
Hideki Shirakawa
Ryoji Noyori
Koichi Tanaka
Susumu Tonegawa
Makoto Kobayashi
Toshihide Maskawa
Plus some Japanese U.S.Japanese
Yoichiro Nambu
Osamu Shimomura
Roger Tsien

----

Finally, Germany's exports in 2008 were $1.53 trillion and Japan's exports were only $776.8 billion in 2008. Japan's total exports in 2008 were only 51% of Germany's exports in 2008 even though Germany has 40 million fewer people than Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/11/2009 11:02:04 PM | | Votes: 2   

And Huu, I only point these facts out to you so that you can have a more accurate and realistic view of things.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/11/2009 11:06:32 PM | | Votes: 3   

"Here is a list of non-Jewish German Nobel Prize science winners:"

haha wow, did you really just do that?

— Joe_Limon (View Profile)

Posted on 4/12/2009 5:28:14 PM | | Votes: 2   

I wanted to emigrate to Israel but they wouldn't let me because I'm not at least 1/8th Jewish. The Israelis make a legal distinction between Germans and Jews so who am I to argue?

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/12/2009 6:22:28 PM | | Votes: 2   

What a bunch of racist rot. "1/2 of NASA's researchers are also Chinese, NOT German." I would bet you the majority are Americans. By Chinese I assume you mean Asians, and I bet you just made that up. Regardless is still racist tripe.

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 4/11/2009 6:50:11 PM | | Votes: 3   

[Quote]What about the previous 5000yrs when China was fully developed and Europeans were cave dwellers. Should we try to count the inventions and innovation during that insignificant era of humankind?[/Quote]


Did they degenerate to this:

"If you’ve never been to Asia, it would probably be safe to assume that simple Western customs such as lining up to get on a bus, buy food at a concession stand, or check in to the airport would be observed in China with just as much enthusiasm as they are at home. That couldn’t be more wrong. Until Westerners began to arrive and officials started cracking down on violators (with nothing more than a shout and a stern look), Chinese would push and shove their way to the front of the line everywhere from grocery stores to subway stops."

http://beijing2008.popphoto.com/2008/08/westernized-chi.html

http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Asia/Story/A1Story20080909-86744.html

-

[Quote]That's good that Germany exports more, did you look at the makeup of their trading partners, (all EU members)? Each EU member specializes in something, Japan basically does everything on its own.

Your selective statistics is amazing. In the same year, Germany imported 1.2trillion while Japan imported 696billion (and they have 40 million more people but imported approx 40% less). Both countries need raw materials inorder to export finished goods, its just Japan isn't as dependent on it as Germany is (29.7% Germany vs 26.1% Japan).[/Quote]


I honestly have no idea what you were trying to say there. The bottom line is that Germany exported twice as much as Japan did in 2008. Japan can export to every country that Germany is allowed to export to.

-

[Quote]So you have a better view of the world, China's space program (without the help of Asians over here) in 2003 made China the 3rd country to send anyone to space w/o help. They only got serious and independent in 1993 and they've become one of the larger players in commercial space launches on top of their rapidly advancing space programs. This is one area where they can beat us even under communist rule. Not bad for 15 years of serious effort without the help of any Germans.[/Quote]


Shenzhou’s Military Record

"The original Shanghai Astronautics Bureau Project 921-1 manned space capsule was revamped in 1994 following Jaing Zemin’s visit to Russia, which led to a 1995 agreement to transfer Russian manned space technology. China purchased a Russian Soyuz space capsule, life support and docking technology, space suits, and astronaut training.[12] While the PRC has boasted that it was responsible for the design and production of its subsequent space craft, it is clear that Russian technology has made possible the PRC’s first manned space program. With its November 20, 1999 test flight, the 921-1 craft gained the name “Shenzhou” or “Divine Vessel” from Jiang Zemin, and was revealed to be scaled-up Soyuz, featuring the same three-part design: orbital modu

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/13/2009 11:28:39 PM | | Votes: 1   

continued ...

orbital module; command/crew module; and a service or propulsion module. Shenzhou, however, at a weight of 7800kg, and a length of 7.79m is about 550 kg heavier and over a meter longer than the Soyuz. Unlike Soyuz, the 921-1 has a cylindrical orbital module that has its own solar energy panels, thrusters to enable minor maneuvers, and a digital data transmission system, making it capable of independent operations. All Shenzhou flights have entailed extended orbital module missions following the return of the command module."

http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.80/pub_detail.asp

-

[Quote]All the cars you listed aren't wholly owned by Japan except Toyota. You can bet Mercedes will benchmark the LS once its time to bring out a new S and the cycle will repeat. You also conveniently forgot that MB ADMITTED that its benchmarking Toyota/Lexus in the quality and luxury side of things. As for BMW, they could stop development and autojournalists, 15yrs down the road, would still benchmark every car to theirs. Honda doesn't even benchmark the Germans anymore.[Quote]


Links to your sources of information?


Btw, I remember watching TV a few years ago when NASA landed the Mars rover on Mars and they showed all of the people in the control room cheering as it made a successful touch-down and all of the technical people were fifty-something white men. I think I saw one non-white in the crowd.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/13/2009 11:30:08 PM | | Votes: 1   

I admire the capacity for wrongness.

“The X3 is a competitor to the CR-V except it looks like a shoe.”

WRONG

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/crossovers_and_suvs/2007_bmw_x3_vs_2007_acura_rdx_2008_land_rover_lr2_comparison_test/2007_bmw_x3_3_0si_comparison_test

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=120623

Oh by the way the BMW won.

Show one article that compares, says, or hints that the CR-V is an X3 competitor Statements like this are just lies to yourself.

“Range Rover Sport and Cayenne are SUVs, the X6 is a "SAC" becuase it can't compete with SUVs.”

WRONG AGAIN !

Here’s some more road test for you;

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/112_0805_2009_bmw_x6_vs_infiniti_fx35_comparison/index.html

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080814.003/bmw-x6-xdrive50i-vs-porsche-cayenne-gts-at-nurburgring

“We can tell you the BMW X6 xDrive50i put in a best lap of 8min 54.4 seconds, but the Cayenne GTS was left crawling behind beyond the 9 minute barrier and more than 7 seconds a drift with a time of 9 mins 1.9 seconds.”

Yep, the BMW won.

“X6 sold out worldwide. Where have you been? Sitting on a dealer lot does not equate to being sold. Learn the difference.”
LEARN TO READ AND WRONG AGAIN.
If you would have bothered to read my post correctly, you would have I was speak of the first production run (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080509.001/bmw-x6-is-sold-out) BMW increased production to comply with demand. The cars you see on the lots are from the second production run. Personally I don’t understand why people love this car but it does sell. I also believe this a very limited market and can’t understand why Acura wants to jump so badly in it.
— huu76 Embrace facts, embrace the truth.

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 4/15/2009 6:14:39 PM | | Votes: 1