Bob Lutz Challenges Any Sedan To Beat The CTS-V On The Track, Who Will Take Him Down?

Easy....Panamera....

— Yonder7 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 9:57:09 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

Twice of the price of the Cady CTS V, but it will do the job..

— Yonder7 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 9:57:57 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8   

For the money no sedan will Lutz is confidend in the CTS-V and rightfuly should be.

— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 10:10:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

well if we stick in the CTS-V's price range, i dont think any other sedan can beat it; even a stripped M3 sedan will lose to it horriblely. C63 cant corner as well as the M3 but has good speed going straight but the CTS-V will still out run it, RS4 will just lose all together... IS-F cant do it....seems like luts put some thought into this challenege before he went public with it

— KZ258 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 10:12:45 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

Is the panamera a sedan? Looks more like a station wagon.

— Joe_Limon (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 10:19:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Also I entered and asked him to bring a Cobalt SS so I could school him in my Mini. I agree with others he has taken away the ability of people to beat him if price is inculded.

— rigid (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 10:44:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

This is like a sandbox pi**ing match. Lame.

— 204E60 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 10:51:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Lutz could very well be correct, but first off, it's not all about sheer performance. Prove to me that the CTS' long-term durability surpasses that of a Mercedes-Benz, or that its interior is crafted as finely as a Lexus', and that might be a better real world comparison. Second, his comment that "we have a lineup of vehicles that we think, if given a chance, can stack up with the best the rest of the automotive manufacturing world has to offer" should be tested in other car classes such as the aforementioned Mini vs Cobalt or how about the DTS vs an S550. I'd love to see them try to win that...my $0.02.

— Foreigner (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 11:52:55 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Returnig to the point ...If we do not see a Panamera as a Sedan....then I can't think in any production car with it capabilities....Luts is right..and there is a new King of the Tracks....and with bargain price which is great for american cars..

— Yonder7 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 11:56:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

What Bob Lutz needs to remember it's not just about speed. It's also about what the resdiual value will be in 3 years and there are people like me that will never buy an American car built by the SOB's of the UAW.

— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 12:29:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I am not American but I'm willing to buy american just to help the economy of them. Why, cause all you europeans complaints about why you have to learn english instead of french or other language...but you forget that thanks to america now you are not speaking german (and I don't have anything against germans but Nazis). Beside that, most of you do not help anyone when emergenies comes up, but americans are always there...and lastly when their soldiers are defending you against enemies the only land that they hold, is the one were they bury the soldiers that gave their life for all of you....Freedom is not free for me, if I have to buy american to keep my world free, I will. and beside that. The Cadillac is a great car with excelent workmanship and high quality materials equal to any of the best. I have a Mercedes and also a Cadillac STS...and it is my favorite car.

— Yonder7 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 12:49:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

^^no what you need to remember is he said the track. The only residuals are the ones left by the tires

— Inline6 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 12:51:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Mitsu EVO FQ400 Will take it around a track for sure. And also in a straight line.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 1:15:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

OK so he challenges all takers. So What? Yes the CTS-V is an awesome car, but it is not the car that drives volume for GM. How about a Malibu challenge to see where GM really stands? Simple, safe & conservative as always exterior styling and a pretty decent interior for a GM vehicle. Not segment leading exterior styling or interiors, but good for GM. Maybe Lutz should take a look around to where the volume GM need to be succeeding in, the challenge is that these executives NEVER actually purchase or own a vehicle themselves. They are given vehicles, do not know about buying or owning them. I would hazard a guess that Mr Lutz has not personally purchased a vehicle to drive in decades. Yep that is who should be posting the challenge to consumers -- someone who doesn;t own or purchase vehicles themselves. I am a fan of American manufacturers and am cheering for them but come on, let;s hang our hats on vehicles that most people will actually drive & use. It;s like cheering for the ZR-1, yes awesome car for those buyers who would 'never' own another GM vehicle in their driveway. Well played.

— THESCOOTER (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 1:57:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

THESCOOTER : Good point...well in that case compare the Malibu aginst the Accord...and yes it look as good as the accord but more atractive to me eyes.. and it is better in several aspects than the competition...It is nice to see how amrican companies (under pressure) are able to bring great products....but looks like the americans are beside all the ones that wants to kill all american car insdustry. Traverse is another great product a reasonable price....so what's your next excuse to avoid buying american?.....ups sorry may be you prefer imports cause it looks like an smarter decision?...Smart decision is to support your country in a crisis...if you are american of course. long time ago you said american cars are bad or do not performe, now they are good quality and good performers and cheaper...so tell me....why no to buy american?

— Yonder7 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 2:13:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Why doesn't he just get the ruler out and start measuring?

— _43LE (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 2:16:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

He already took the ruler out, it says that the Caddy has a bigger one, and knows how to use it. For the person who said the FQ400, does it have a better 'Ring time?

— Inline6 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 3:59:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Wow this car is fast, it is tied with some super cars like the Viper and a few other super cars, impressive even if you don't like this car.

— truckman (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 6:17:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

There is that ridiculously powerful Lancer which you get in the UK but not in the US. It is around 400bhp, has lots of torque and is very lightweight with a superb 4WD system which can kick ass of this CTS-V as the specs are faster. It is not yet tested on the ring but has faster acceleration, slalom, handling etc. but the question is if it is as comfy as the CTS-V. I love the way the CTS-V looks. We have the right car at the right time at the right price. Go USA!

— TECHGEEK (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 9:35:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

While I respect the abilities of the CTS-v as genuine 1st class, its one thing to build an extraordinary vehicle, its another thing to do it and make a profit. While I applaud the engineering feat, i suppose anyone can make a super car and break the bank. Making a great car while sustaining a profit with it is a greater challenge, one GM should embrace.

— ThierryHenry14 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 10:14:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Id Put a Cayenne Turbo S, a BMW 760Li up Against it and hope for the best.

The Sedan That will beat this however, will be the 604 HP Merc S-Class AMG.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 10:14:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

If you GM guys want respect for this brand here, you're going to have to pull out all of the stops. Offer better incentives than even Hyundai, everything.

Think About This Commercial and Advocate for it:

Announcer:

"The Germans have the Alps, The Koreans have the Taebaeks, the Japanese have the Japanese Alps, but you know what? We have the Rockies and the Rockies are better becuase we gun our CTS-Vs up and down, and around corners, steep grades, icy surfaces. We're Cadillac, We're Superior, We're American!!!"

They Actually go super fast around icy corners in some Range in Nevada.

One Commercial has a yong dude listening to some trance mussic, the next commercial is some middle aged guy listening to some acid rock.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 11:14:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Joe VW/Audi's precieved quality is better than the truth. Plus VW is an entry level luxury small car niche brand, and Audi is more of an upper tier luxury brand.

At least quite a few people now believe that Hyundai makes great cars.

GM Doesnt have that luck, Joe. Many GM Owners who bought a car with in the last 5 years love their car, and just as many who bought a GM within the last 5 years hates their car. I wouldnt buy a GM car, its not just the quality, but for many other reasons: Social Responsiblity, Design, etc... Id buy a GM Truck and a Sports coupe if they made one that didnt have the Retro styling, but a Regular car from them=Hell No. Im a big 1973-2005 Camaro/Firebird/Formula/Trans AM Fan

The Goal of incentives is to get people to try the brand, VW/Audi never had a problem with people not wanting to try it. 10 years ago when VW/Audi were making sh-t cars people were still buying the things in droves, and Hoping for the best. Hyundai has been making good cars for the last 10 years and 15 years in some models people still have a problem with the brand, becuase unlike VW/Audi or GM we never had a large loyal following until now; that affects sales.

Remember, the US and Canada are still the only counrites on Earth ourside of Japan where Acura/Honda outsells Hyundai/KIA. Everywhere else on the Planet Acura/Honda gets spanked by Hyundai/KIA.

My point, people have to try the Hyundai/KIA just like People have to Try GM. Millions upon Millions of people in this Country hate GM so much that all I have to do is say GM and the discussion and debate for an hour is car build quality. Hyundai doesnt have that much hate anymore.

That's what incentives do.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 5:08:06 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

"If Hyundai/KIA can do soemthing about the Driving Dynamics of the KIA Forte, to make it drive like a Civic this car would be better than the Corolla and Civic enough to to make KIA the only buying choice in this segment.

It seems as if The Koreans have executed an almost masterpiece, and if they listen to our suggestions they will have a masterpiece."


-Autoline Detroit

Thats what the Reviewers for the most part say about KIA's Products. All of the new ones.

People dont say that about Checy, not quite yet.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 5:16:50 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Pretty Much NVH was the Problem. Though, some people like myself buy Hyundai/KIAs becuase they have that raw unrefined Noise Vibration Harshness quotient.

They dont feel Clinical, they still feel and sound like real cars; not Clinical machines and appliances.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 5:22:10 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Driving an Accent, Elantra, Sonata, Forte, Rio with the right exhaust sounds like an upper crusted Teutonic Car with Borla Exhuasts on it. It's not an Audi, BMW, or MB, but it sure sounds like one damm it.

It just feels so alive, and its s shame still too few many people know what that sounds like; BECUASE THEY DONT TUNE THEIR HYUNDAI PRODUCTS!!!!

It asks you, it tells you, it seduces you to rev the engine. TRY ONE WITH EXHAUST!!!!

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 5:30:58 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

It PAINS me to say this but a Dinan M5 will beat it, but it's still an evil BMW with issues!

— pennfootball (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 12:38:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Ok Street legal cars, the rules state the guy has to live in the lower 48 states too. hmmm Nothing can beat this car in America because"the Rules" Gm makes are only to US living people with "cars" that have to be within "GM" spec almost..not very fair since a panel of GM employed "judges" must "approve" any such competitor first. Its like me making a really really fast bulldozer and only challenging us spec bulldozers that are in my price class can come out and play!

— pennfootball (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 2:08:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Well after all the bailouts at least government motors made the fastest sedan. Kudos. We can call the billions of dollars spent as R&D.

— vvelez (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 4:31:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

When I care about something I talk a lot about it, and advocate for it. Most of the times Im the quiet guy sitting in the back just listening to what everybody else says. Most of the time its not worth the breath to talk, its a waste of intellect; but on certain issues and concerns I can go all day.

Joe, Actually incentives are starting to drop the depreciation levels. At least in Hyundais case. Hyundais new cars from just the 2006-2007 model year have hardly depreciated.

Accent:

They used to drop by half within 3 years of sale, now they barely dropped by 10%. On some high mileage models the depreciation has made the price drop highly. But most of them have a 10% or less drop on average.

Elantra:

Most of the New Elantras are depreciating very slowly. Most models have dropped 10% of less.

Sonata:

The Sonata on the other hand has a horrid depreciation value. This car is getting killed out there, but the Sonata is not as reliable as the Elantra, and definately not as reliable as the Accent.


Azera:

The Azera is even worse off than the Sonata in Terms of depreciation. I refuse to talk about it.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 6:39:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

The New Hyundai 100,000 Mile Bumper to Bumper Used Car warranty is working on used car sales.

5 years of that, and there will be no depreciation on the small cars, and a little bit in the big cars.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 6:43:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Any German car.

— BobbyJ (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 1:40:55 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0