Is The Lexus LF-A Betraying The Brand?

Silver-like suppository!

— kpaxx (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 3:45:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I agree they would be better off replacing the SC with something credible, but placing the LF-A as a halo car instead doesn't necessarily doom it or the company. What will hurt the LF-A and Lexus, though, is the virtual shutdown of reckless consumer deficit spending in the US, and the crowded/competitive space of the super-car market.

I thought Lexus was going to do very well with a V8 LF-A around 75k and a V10 around 100k, but it looks like they are aiming for super-car segment instead. I have decidedly less confidence in the success of the LF-A in that market, where image and racing prestige have more value than features and reliability.

— sigmabody (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 4:57:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 12   

+1

— komododave (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 7:00:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

@ xdrive,
+1 (I wish I could give you +10!!! You've nailed it.)

Toyota can't even get into 3rd place of the F1 Constructors' Championship with a $400 million + annual budget, yet they felt the need to produce a $200K+ "supercar".

Hey Toyota, how about a Supra first!?

It's a nice car at the wrong place and time in the world today. It's compounded by the soon to be released Nissan GT-R, at least $150K (MSRP) cheaper.

Sorry Toyota fans if it sounds like I'm taking a dump on you and the company. It's fast, it's beautiful, it's technologically advanced -- but it's WAY TOO EXPENSIVE, my only true gripe.

— Bored (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 9:59:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

"where image and racing prestige have more value than features and reliability"

Well said! These customers dont care about reliability. Lamborghini customers drive on average less than 5,000 miles a year and the same can be said for other competitive brands like Ferrari. These cars arent driven every day so therefore reliability is placed last when it comes to prestige, name brand, and racing heritage.

Take watches for example... This is like a $10,000K Movado versus a $10,000 Cartier. I dont care how good the Movado is, They are still considered low tier by contrast. So I'll still go for the Cartier.

— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/28/2008 12:17:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

X-drive give Lexus time to develop more models,they have only been around 17 yrs.It seems like alot longer,just ask their competition.

— autopro (View Profile)

Posted on 5/28/2008 2:06:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I agree, this LF-A will fail.

— ricer (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 4:07:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

IS convertible no brainier.

— DROOPYSAKK (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 4:12:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

This car is for a halo effect mainly. Like "I bought an IS and it has the same badge as that LFA thingy...I must be cool.

If it ever comes out that is...

— Peyton18 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 4:25:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Lexus (nee Toyota) would have been better served by improving the brakes (stronger, less fade-resistant)on all its products.

Lexi (and Toyota's) have always had really, really long stopping distances - which is unacceptable in a market where they shovel all other kinds of needless stuff into their vehicles (i.e. self-park systems)

Take an LS460, ES, or RX and brake it hard from speed (say 70MPH) - its spooky how bad the brakes are on such an otherwise good car. One panic stop, fade sets in. All the Germans have great brakes - Lexus should too.

The author of this comment is spot-on. It is pretentious of Lexus to introduce a $200K supercar when the benchmark they hold the rest of their product line to is keeping passengers comfortable while sitting in traffic with the A/C running and beautiful music coming out of the stereo.

— nybimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 4:33:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

So your own opinion is based on?? The fact that your a German lover?

I rarely reply to these articles as all it does is spawn up hate and debate over a few things:

1) Is Lexus really luxury?
2) Why do they think they can make cars to compete with BMW, Merc., Audi?

3) Since they don't win in competitions, they must suck.


Well there are more, but for the most part that is just a huge irk for me. I understand people have brand affections and yes the germans have been around longer. But to point, the IS-F was not a failure, it is a different twist on a segment dominated by germans. And for a first effort, each car review on it has given it the proper respect for its power, performance and the ability for Lexus to create something that is competitive.

The fact that Lexus is made by Toyota really drives people nuts. But you don't hear them complaining about Infiniti's being Nissans or Cadillac's being glorified Pontiac's. Or even that Fords are volvo's underneath. Just because a brand makes only one type of car mainly, does not make it better or worse.

The Lexus IS is a great car that was a great remodel. The original IS300 was not a competitor for the 3 series, but it sure got attention and was bought and loved by a lot of mid 20's to early 30's young professionals who did not want a german car with $$$ repair and operating costs. The newest IS was a HUGE move up for Lexus with what they can offer in an entry level luxury segment. It combines a little performance with some luxury. I personally notice them more than I notice a 3 series unless it is a 328xi coupe.

— Whelan (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 4:37:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 10   

First, where can I buy one of those cool crystal balls guys like this have, that allow them to see into the future?

Second, I don't think the idea and execution of the LF-A is an automatic mistake. The writer says Toyota has the money, so why the hell not do something crazy. The only way the LF-A could hurt the Lexus image is if each one came only in a metallic pink color, and spontaneously burst into flames at the 10,000 mile mark on the odometer.

My only problem with the LF-A would be if it prevents a new Lexus coupe from coming into production in the near future. Yeah, there is going to be a IS coupe, but I want a cool SC replacement that isn't a convertible.

But, since I cannot see into the future, I can't complain yet.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 4:45:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

I'm reading a lot of hatred against Lexus for producing the LF-A. Why? If a brand wants to experiment, let it. No one asked Audi to produce the R8 or Lamborghini to produce the Reventon for that matter and its because they can. So Lexus wants to play with the big boys and I say let it. This only makes the competition fierce and produce better products for us consumers.
No one bitched about Porsche when they completely stepped out of their boundary and created the hideous Cayenne not to mention a 4 door Porsche in a couple of years. All I'm saying is if Lexus wants to sell itself to others, who in the beginning, wouldn't even look at a Lexus, shouldn't they be given a chance to take a part of that niche crowd? And seriously, this car isn't even out, yet. Why are we talking about how bad it is? Lexus is not betraying their brand in my opinion. They're still going to produce the kind of cars they've always produce, just now, they'll have other products for the consumer to choose from? Is that so bad to have a sport division? BMW and Benz have certainly profit from that standpoint.

— SSP350 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 4:46:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 10   

Not sure about that. Why is Lexus making the LF-A? Is it necessary? NO! Will it somehow try to make Lexus like MB? YES! How? Copy the idea of the MB McLaren SLR.

Apparently by making the LF-A will make Lexus as a whole more prestigious. Any make that has a $200K plus ride in its line up MUST be fancy...lol. Well thats the idea...

— Porschinator (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 5:08:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

Not necessarily true lexusis350. You need to study your history a little bit more. MB and Audi were started out by engineers who were obscessed by the "engineering" of their cars. August Horch began racing his cars almost imediately upon forming Horch and then Audi. The tradition is the quite sound. MB and Audi see racing and motor sports as a way to build better engineered cars. Lexus started out simply to be an Japanese version of Buick, and now it wants to jump into the sports fray. The problem is Lexus is NOT going to the track to prove itself and challenge its competitors.

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 10:28:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I honestly don't even think this car is that impressive to look at, I couldn't really see sales being that high even if brand betrayal wasn't a factor.

— nsmatt (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 5:04:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

As the LF-A isn't even in production yet, isn't the author's condemnation of this car and of Lexus premature?

— Audiphile (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 5:08:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 10   

Who are the boobs in charge that wanna sell this car for $225,000.00 :-?

— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 5:15:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -9   

The author of the article, Robert Farago, shows his lack of knowledge here.

His assertion that Halo cars are a "cardinal sin" of any manufacturer is simply unfounded. It has been shown that more times than not, the Halo does serve to boost the brands image. While the Porsche CGT may have ended its run early, you cannot measure on a balance sheet the value of its display to the world of Porsche's state-of-the-art engineering ability. I think there is plenty of proof out there that majority of the public does not associate "performance" with the brand Lexus. If it is executed properly, this car will serve to change that.

Also, the Lexus SC has a long product cycle, just as the Mercedes SL does. The next model is not due for a couple of years still. Just because we see shots of the LF-A running around in Europe does not mean the company has no resources left to be developing the next SC model back in Japan.

Another thing, I think it is quite a stretch to say the original LS400 looked just like an E-Class.

Finally, there is no such thing as a Lexus stockholder.

— nsu_med (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 5:19:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

Hmm. Rubbish article.

First of all the author states "it WILL sticker for $225k" ..... When did that press release come out? Passing speculation of as fact is poor journalism.

Secondly, the author assumes that this car is a halo car for the Lexus brand. No sir. This car has ALWAYS been shown with an 'F' badge. It is a halo car for their F marquee, the same one they created for the enthusiast that own Lexii and had to go outside of the brand for cars that stirred their passion. The same one they created, because YOU the auto journalist, kept complaining that they were too boring.

Lastly, the author starts the article with the line "The fastest way to kill an automotive brand: sell a POS." Is he trying to imply that the LF-A will be one? You sir, and all the 'experts' who agreed with you on your site and here on autospies, can merrily go and mold your opinion into a carbon fibre rod and take it up the tail pipe.

It bothers you that someone is upsetting the status quo, doing something different, and most of all, it eats you out from the inside that it is Toyota/Lexus.

You haters will never go away, and you call yourselves enthusiasts...you disgust me.

— 2JayZee (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 6:02:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

I agree 100% with the article.

You know what really disgusts me?

Answer: Blind Loyalists.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 6:39:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -11   

Said one more time...........WORTH IT.........

— hao420 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 6:42:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

People, you all need to read the article FULLY before commenting, not just the blurb inserted by the submitter. The author makes some valid points for the LF-A damaging Lexus' image and not sellng like it should by siting other companies that did the same thing. He's not saying the car will kill Lexus, he's saying the F series and the LF-A could dillute the well established premium luxury image that Lexus has fostered and draw focus away from the kind of engineering that made them so popular: quiet, comfortable, dependable, luxurious cars.

— komododave (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 7:00:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

unless it undercuts the gt-r on price, it is doomed.

— olscuul (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 7:07:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5   

Lexus is losing its original focus.

What, exactly, is a Lexus anymore?

I do not see how the LF-A fits into Toyota's strategy for a premium lux brand, even if they want to have a so-called halo car. Not sure this is it.

— Maverick2020 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 7:40:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

wow, i smell Prestigious written all over the HALO car/company

— Denali (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 8:07:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

The LF-A isn't betraying anything because it's a car. It doesn't possess a soul that can back stab the very company it represents. That's like walking by a Cayenne at a Porsche dealership and saying under your breath, 'traitor.' That is plain stupid. Yes, in fact I am making fun of the title of this topic.

The only facet that is doing the betraying is the company to the loyalist costumers to the brand. So you can blame the marketing department to the higher ups that gave this car the green light. Anyone else might not even care or be bothered.

The LF-A might have a smaller production run for the brand. Just an image boost. If someone buys the IS-F and finds it too 'extreme' can always opt for the basic IS250/350 cars. It's not like Lexus if forcing it down anyone's throat. They have choices to buy other vehicles within the lineup that are more... 'plush.'

— richardp996 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 8:17:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I never liked the IS-F as a Lexus, but this won't hurt Lexus. It looks good.

— g2ok (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 8:36:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I really don't think the LF-A is "betraying". Just because it focuses on sport rather than luxury doesn't mean squat. If the LF-A betrays Lexus' image, then the SLR betrayed MB and the R8 betrayed Audi. As for the IS-F: it's basically a souped up IS 350. And has anyone heard of the M3, S4, or C63? Talk about thinking to deeply to butt heads with Lexus.

— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 8:54:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

So basically, what the author is really saying is that if Lexus introduces something exciting, he (and alot of Autospies posters) can no longer criticize Lexus for making "bland appliance automobiles" they so like to complain about. IOW, they'd be really reaching for a reason to despise Lexus. Amazing what fear does to people.

Hey how about renaming this site "European Auto Spies". This would discourage non-European fans to post here. I sense they're never welcome here anyway. You guys can spout your pointless BS drivel amongst yourselves and feel happy at the end of the day.

— flozel1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 9:12:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

a telegram from all the German fanatics (aka. Germ fanatics) to Lexus:

Damned if You Do, Damned if You Don’t...

— sector (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 10:25:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

I think this guy has meant to say BMW, not LF-A. The only company selling out of laste is BMW with their sports-activity-anything as long as its marketed with that propellor.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/27/2008 10:40:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

the LFA is totally inconsistent with the brand. lexus is about luxurious, totally reliable, but boring cars that are value priced. in other words, the RX and ES which make up 2/3 of the brand. the LFA has nothing in common with these cars. and the ES buyer has precisely nothing in common with an LFA buyer.

so, yes, you end up with a schizophrenic brand.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/28/2008 1:14:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Lexus should have concentrated on creating an actual SL competitor instead of getting too ahead of themselves. Since most of their line is rides that are plush and comfortable I don't see why they would jump out of their circle and try and tackle a "Super Car" segment.

They need to phase out that SC430 because it was a dud. Like one person said above they should concentrate on making some coupes. That would diversify their lineup with more appealing cars instead of a super car off the bat expecting it to be as prestigious as the European's.

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/28/2008 2:11:34 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

With TTAC you can be sure that every article is against LEXUS. He maintain his position about ISF? And what about other magazines like TopGear , C&D and EVO who praised the ISF. This is one of the most Schizo car magazine i've ever seen.And do anyone realy think that LEXUS LFA will be a POS? This man hate realy LEXUS's and it's interesting to know why.

— EL44 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/28/2008 3:39:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

I agree with the article. I feel the same way when it comes to Alfa releasing a $250,000 car and then following that up with a sub $30,000 MiTo. It will be a flop as will the Lexus using an opposite strategy.

— stevenv1999 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/28/2008 8:41:08 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

Wow, me make cool expensive car, so more people buy my cheap poorly engineered cars! Brilliant marketing strategy! (sarcasm)

— kpaxx (View Profile)

Posted on 5/28/2008 9:28:47 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5   

Let's face it, Lexus never had any direction with their cars anyway. Nobody buys Lexus cars based on the driving experience. If the LF-A sells, it will certainly not sell based on the driving experience.

The potential buyers for this car are people who buy things just so they can brag about how different they are from the rest of the world. The type of person that would say "Look at me, I could buy a Ferrari and have a blast driving it but I will get a Lexus LF-A instead because everybody else has a Ferrari". Yes, we are talking about the ultimate snob. The ultimate snob, the one that claims people that buy Ferrari and Lamborghini are snobs even though there is nothing out there that can offer you the driving experience you get with a Ferrari or Lamborghini.
Same type of snob that will make retarded claims about the buyers of a BMW or Mercedes. We all know that nothing offers the driving experience you get with a Mercedes or BMW, but we still hear some morons saying that is the badge that sells them. Same morons that buy a rebadged Toyota or Nissan and think they got "value" for the money. I'm sure that one of these morons will actually believe that LF-A is more value for the money than a Ferrari.

— Star (View Profile)

Posted on 5/28/2008 9:41:23 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -8   

There is a lot of negative talk on a car that isn't even out yet.

The F-Series of cars is designed to betray the brand. The slogan for the IS-F was verbatim "everything you thought we weren't" or something like that. The LF-A is designed to be the posterchild of this slogan.

I agree with one thing though, they should make a downgraded LF-A, i.e. LF460 to replace the SC coupe, but knowing Lexus, they'll probably just discontinue the SC once the IS convertible comes out.

— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/28/2008 9:42:21 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Boy this guy must have been pissed when he woke that morning. Havent seen that much hate since 001 on the Genesis. LOL

— NItePhire (View Profile)

Posted on 5/28/2008 11:19:21 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

Here's some new news for you.The 225,000 price tag may be very low.A carbon fiber body will jack it up even more.

— autopro (View Profile)

Posted on 5/28/2008 2:16:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Cars are innate objects of our own engineering. As of yet they do not have a soul or autonomous functions. So how could it bloody betray it's own brand? Are you seriously suggesting Lexus intends to sabotage itself. NO, Lexus is doing what every brand should do and that is put their best foot forward and build the best car that they are capable of building. Fan of the LF-A/Lexus or not. As consumers we should all expect that from a car company! What a senseless article, poorly written by some bloody wenker. What's next on his list, an article about how my dishwasher is jealous of my refridgerator? Rubbish!

— Reason (View Profile)

Posted on 5/28/2008 3:16:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 9   

the evilmonkee has stupid OPINIONS written all over him.

— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/30/2008 5:45:25 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

So much agitation over here... I smell testosterone :D

— Squash2008 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/29/2008 9:21:17 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Stupid article...no real fact. Just one-person opinion.

— hatepusss (View Profile)

Posted on 5/29/2008 2:28:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I totally disagree with all respect to agent 009, This is the missing link for Lexus which I have been waiting for a long time. LF-A is the key for them to expand by mixing Lexus luxury and a sport supercar design. The concept is magnificent and I am waiting for them to pronounce beginning the production process. For me Lexus is always linked to reliability, beauty, and technology. It is more about cost efficient and never trading-off extra advantages with cost which is making me trusting them . I am sure that this LF-A will compete easily with any competitor in the same segment. And Lexus is always for me an everyday car which worth the money. I am not Japanese but with respect to all other car manufacture, Lexus has proven to us that their products are value for money and they will change and shake the whole auto industry around to world to produce better cars with lower cost, and this will reflect to our own benefit as consumers because it is the strategy for the future.

Also, If I will talk about the driving experience, I have driven S500 (99) S600(2004) S600(2007) CLS (2004) 730IL(2005) 530I(2005) 730IL(2001) Porsche Boxter (2002) LS400 (98) LS 430(2003) LX470 (99) GS(2004) and I am not sure %100 about the models name, but, Lexus have their own unique driving experience which nobody can copy it.

According to Lexus website the LF-A specification will be

LF-A - Powertrain
Engine: V10 (under 5.0 liters)
Horsepower: More than 500
Top Speed: Approximately 200 MPH

LF-A Tire Size
Front: 265/35R20
Rear: 305/30R20

LF-A Dimensions (inches)
Overall Length: 175.6
Overall Width: 74.6
Overall Height: 48.0
Wheelbase: 102.3

From this Data I believe its competing with

GT2
530hp - 204mph – $192.700
Overall Length: 176
Overall Width: 72
Overall Height: 50
Wheelbase: 92

Porsche 911 Turbo:
480hp - 193mph – $129.620
Overall Length: 176
Overall Width: 72
Overall Height: 51
Wheelbase: 92

MB- SL600: 510hp, $136.975
Tires 255/40 R18 front and 285/35 R18 rear
Overall Length: 178
Overall Width: 80
Overall Height: 51
Wheelbase: 100.8

MB - CL 600: 510hp, $148.275
Tires 255/45 R18 front and 275/45 R18 rear

But do you think the price will be more than $130,000? Positively not
This LF-A will be able to compete with Porsche, MB and with any other supercar easily, However, I will wait to see what will happen in the Near future.

— almady (View Profile)

Posted on 5/30/2008 12:10:35 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

[img]http://www.dpccars.com/photos/06-16-07-02-Lexus-LF-A.jpg[/img]
--
[img]http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2007/01/lexus_lfa_det.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/08/lfa07_03.jpg[/img]

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Lexus_LF-A_2005_TMS_3.jpg/800px-Lexus_LF-A_2005_TMS_3.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.sport-cars.org/site_img/large/lexus-lf-a-concept-9.jpg[/img]

— almady (View Profile)

Posted on 5/30/2008 12:18:09 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Lexus LF-A is not betraying the Lexus brand. The car already smells like chloroform, so its all good.

— Star (View Profile)

Posted on 5/30/2008 12:32:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0