Report says U.S. diesel sales are on the rise, would you buy one?

— Invisible:

| I would buy a diesel before I would buy a hybrid.

Why should anyone buy slower, less efficient, less reliable, less fun to drive and more expensive to run inferior imported technology when you can have a superior domestic product?

Ford Fusion Hybrid is:
- faster than the Volkswagen Jetta TDI thanks to electric torque boost
- bigger than the Volkswagen Jetta TDI
- more fuel efficient than the Volkswagen Jetta TDI
- more fun to drive
and then, at the end of the day, it costs less to own, wiping the price disadvantage.

I don't have cost data for the Fusion Hybrid itself since it's a brand new car but Ford Escape full hybrid has been built in exactly the same way as the Fusion. Results?

5-year TOTAL costs of ownership:
2006 Ford Escape hybrid (crossover SUV): $36,250 [1]
2006 VW Jetta TDI (compact sedan) automatic: $37,873 [2]

Part of the reason is that Volkswagen has the worst reliability record in the entire automotive industry, with only Suzuki (a marginal maker) being below VW.

Problems reported per 100 cars: [3]
Ford: 159
Volkswagen 260

Add an overly complex diesel to it and you will likely get to know your dealer well.

What can die in a diesel?
- a turbocharger (bearings, oil leaks and oil ingestion resulting in engine runaway)
- super-high pressure fuel pump (1600+ bars), very pricey to swap
- fragile injectors (direct injection) due to fuel quality
- a double mass flywheel
- an automated mechanical/hydraulic clutch
- an automated mechanical/hydraulic gearbox
- particulate filter and NOx reductor sensors

None of these things can go wrong in a hybrid because they are simply not there. Hybrid cars don't need such unnecessary complexity to outperform diesels. Batteries and inverters have no moving parts and electric traction motors are one of the most durable components possible (locomotives powered by electric traction motors often have 1,000,000+ miles overhaul intervals [4]). The gearbox is replaced by a single set of immovable gears. There is no clutch and no clutch plates to wear. The engine requires no complexity nonsense to run efficiently.


[1] http://www.edmunds.com/used/2006/ford/escapehybrid/100531498/cto.html?setzip=10009&vdp=off
[2] http://www.edmunds.com/used/2006/volkswagen/jetta/100544987/cto.html?setzip=10009&vdp=off
[3] http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2009043
[4] http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/eng/catalog/pages/361.html

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 12:06:20 PM | | Votes: -4   

I too, would purchase a diesel before a hybrid. I've had my eye on the VW Touareg V10 TDI for some time. I guess I would have to buy it used, but that's OK. If I'm getting a diesel, I'm getting a V8 or V10 SUV or large car version with some real stump-pulling torque.

I'd take a diesel GL.

BMW's 335d has been an interesting option too if I were to get a smaller vehicle.

— dumpsty (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 3:18:48 PM | | Votes: 8   

"Drive the TDI for a while and hybrid cars like the Toyota Prius suddenly lose much of their appeal (because they suddenly seem overly costly, complex, and not much fun at all—not to mention drivetrain dynamics that feel like a cross between an electric toy train and a kitchen mixer). By contrast, the SportWagen TDI’s “clean diesel” technology demonstrates that you can have terrific (and environmentally responsible) real-world fuel efficiency and big fun, all at the same time—a combination we find irresistible."

http://www.nextautos.com/car/2009-volkswagen-jetta-tdi-sportwagen-wagon

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 3:48:55 PM | | Votes: 6   

TurboSpyder prefers opinions(if they're similar to his) instead of facts as usual.

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 5:20:43 AM | | Votes: -2   

Bratwurst, when did Ford start building the Fusion in the USA? Did Ford design a new platform, or is it still using that imported Japanese platform?

Advantages of the Jetta Sportwagen Diesel
Better driving.
Huge cargo capacity.
Better ACTUAL mileage.
Better looking.
Has ACTUAL resale value.
The list goes on.

— Invisible (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 9:04:52 AM | | Votes: 3   

abcd, you can't count on facts and reason from eastern Europeans such as yourself - only delusional explanations as to why your societies suck so bad century after century.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 4:00:44 PM | | Votes: -2   

That's about what....2 fuel stops in the 335d?

— Bmw8ter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 5:28:29 PM | | Votes: 5   

Yep

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 5:47:18 PM | | Votes: 4   

Thats only 33mpg highway wich is about the standerd in mid size sedans.

— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 1:35:38 PM | | Votes: -4   

"Thats only 33mpg highway wich is about the standerd in mid size sedans."

maybe 4-cylinder non-luxury sedans, and certainly not ones that do 0-60 in 5.2 seconds, which is what C&D or R&T got in their recent test of the car.

— JRobUSC (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 6:39:48 PM | | Votes: 5   

— 1UAW

I did'nt use two full tanks of gas I averaged 40.5 on the first half and (driving harder) 37.9 overall.

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 9:30:40 PM | | Votes: 2   

Do you have a cool wrx? or one of the new ugly mazda 3 styled wrx's?

— Joe_Limon (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 8:27:22 PM | | Votes: 2   

I'm so jealous. If I had not bought my FX45, I would have liked the GL320.

— dumpsty (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 3:21:27 PM | | Votes: 3   

Move to Florida and de-restrict the diesel. No emission checks.

— veyron1001 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 11:14:40 PM | | Votes: 2   

you certainly could after saving a few drums of oil because of the TDI fuel efficiency, but wouldn't that be such a waste of natural resources?

— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 12:07:14 AM | | Votes: 4   

Atomic, which TDI wagon? Jetta? Funny as I was thinking of selling my M5 for that... or maybe a Mini Cooper S.

— valhallakey (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 2:06:34 AM | | Votes: 2   

Yes, 2009 Jetta TDI Sportwagen. Seemed like a good transitional car while I wait for more performance-oriented cars to make the move to diesel or hybrid variants. Would have opted for a BMW 335d if it came in a wagon, but I can't drive a sedan because of all the sports gear I throw on top of or into the vehicle. Overall, it handles very nicely - way better than the Prius with its roller skate wheels.

— atomic (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 6:31:22 PM | | Votes: 2   

They overcharge because they can. Very simple.

Poorly built? What on earth are you talking about. Stop listening to that shit called Consumer Reports and drive those cars before talking about build quality. I have an '07 MB C230 (V6), a car that was widely criticized for many reasons, yet I have no problems with it. Build quality is fine (feels solid) and the car performs well and is fun too.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 3:07:53 PM | | Votes: 6   

If you want to know, there's a difference between initial quality study and dependability study, in dependability study VW has 260 problems.

And VWs are unreliable, it can't be just coincidence that VWs are also on low positions in AutoBild dauertests, they're testing cars reliability on 100000km (62000miles) distance, they're reporting all defects during test and after every test they are disassembling tested car to search defects. Recently they tested VW Fox and it also got low ratings for reliability(summary table of previous tests is at the bottom of the page):
http://www.autobild.de/artikel/dauertest-vw-fox-1.2_889510.html

Though Autobild is promoting VWs and other German brands, even they have to admit that VWs are unreliable, and it is now, when other automakers generally greatly improved in reliability.

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 5:52:54 AM | | Votes: -2   

Consumer Reports recommended the Jetta, Rabbit and Eos last year.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6186/consumerreportseosjetta.jpg


VW also won some European quality awards last year:

"The latest Golf came out the winner in the 2008 DEKRA Mängelreport’s survey of the compact class with a mileage of between 60,000 and 90,000 kilometres. The Touran achieves similar success in the report. Not only did it attain the highest ranking in this mileage class among vans, but it also came out tops among vehicles with 30,000 to 60,000 kilometres on the clock. These rankings serve to underscore the consistent high standard in quality of these popular models made in Wolfsburg, given that the 2008 DEKRA Mängelreport bases its findings on research done on some 15 million vehicles over a period of two years. The most important new aspect of the survey was the evaluation of deficiencies by mileage classes. DEKRA says this classification is a far more accurate indicator of the technical condition of a vehicle than vehicle age alone.

"The Golf also clinched a very positive third ranking in the 2008 AutoBild TÜV Report’s survey of automobiles aged two to three years. Only 2.2 per cent of all the Golfs examined in this age class revealed any deficiencies – a result which is well above average (4.8 per cent). This, Germany’s biggest used-car report, based its findings on around seven million general inspections of 194 different models in total."

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_2208.shtml

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 5:46:50 PM | | Votes: 2   

Exactly. Now that diesel in the U.S. is generally LESS expensive than gasoline.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 5:47:40 PM | | Votes: 1