34 Votes

TTAC Tests LS600HL Again! This time, they get it right!

LexusKindaGuy12 submitted on 6/8/2008 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 4:52:44 PM

84 user comments | Category: Reviews | Source: | SOURCE: www.thetruthaboutcars.com

Tag Link: Lexus

I disagree with every review of the Lexus LS600hL ever written.

Categorically. To a man, my colleagues misinterpret the most expensive Lexus as a misguided planet-saver that doesn't deliver enough mpg to justify its sky-high price tag. I view the ultimate hybrid as better driving through science. In fact, despite the dorky "hybrid" badges uglifying the LS600hL's flanks, Lexus didn't build this beast to sip fuel. They built it to go toe-to-toe with 12-cylinder Germans.

The LS600hL is no design statement, like the 760Li. It doesn't announce, "I have a huge wallet" like a Mercedes S600. The LS design is much more Audi A8 W12, only without the goatee. The restrained yet handsome lines strike the same chord as VW's Phaeton. Only this time they're brand correct.

The LS600hL is a handsome package. At a distance, the big four-door appears clean and reserved. It's only when you pull up next to (and dwarf) anything else on the road that the long-wheelbase Japanese pseudo limo makes aesthetic sense. In a word: presence. In two: killer headlights.

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TTAC Tests LS600HL Again! This time, they get it right!

About the Author

— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

User Comments

hooray, one decent review out of a million. Congratulations Lexus.
— JRobUSC (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 5:23:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Lexus > German double "B"
— hao420 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 7:00:54 PM | | Votes: 1

Congrats, indeed. Every other credible reviewer (rightfully) hates and trashes this overrated marketing exercise, but here toyota finally got someone to speak kindly about it. How many zeros do you think they had to put on the check to make this happen?
— tattedtwice (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 10:35:21 PM | | Votes: -4

I saw this next to a S550 yesterday and there is simply no comparison, Mercedes just owns this segment.
— Peyton18 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 5:25:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

The only thing mercedes, and (especially the s "class") owns is the title Most Overrated. There is nothing special about the s, nada. While it's definitely a better luxoboat than the camry-ish ls460, there is NO reason to buy one over a 7 or the A8, unless you (mistakenly) think that star is going to impress the neighbors.
— tattedtwice (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 10:10:50 PM | | Votes: -12

Tatted,

I take it you haven't been inside an S550 or felt the quality and craftsmanship of its interior. For those of us who have, there is no debate. The Audi A8 is the second most impressive, followed by the BMW and the Lexus (there is nothing premium or class-leading about the look of the plastic, and rather conventional setup of its interior)
— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 11:38:58 PM | | Votes: 1

Unbelievable crap is being said here, comparing AGAIN the quality of Lexus to MB and others. Well let me think for a moment... OH, I think Lexus was ranked #2 after Porsche and MB was, umm in the 20s??? And BMW wasn't even on the list.

MB has quality, Audi has quality, but none of them comes close to Lexus quality, accept it please. All manufacturers take Lexus quality as a bench mark for their vehicles.
— Designer1 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 2:51:00 AM | | Votes: -4

Lexus quality is a little overrated, Designer1. Good quality cars, but they're far from perfect and also make the list of cars with problems like any other.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 7:04:12 AM | | Votes: 3

tattedtwice:

You have it all wrong. over rated? I don't think so. You talk smack because you've never had one before. I have the regular LS460 and the S. Both are certainly very good but the S is my favorite. The build quality is great and the LS is good as well.

Hell, the A8 is awesome as well. That fit and finish is like no other.

But to say there's nothing special about the S that's just words of people who envy...I'm sorry.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 7:21:49 PM | | Votes: 2

Um, Lexus does not build cars last time I checked. Toyota builds it. They try to convince you they do
( heavy handed marketing speak) but they don't. And one good review? The Benz S-class rules the segment once the wrestled it away from the BMW E65/E66 7 Series (current models).
— 1BadMan (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 5:31:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

wrestled it away? in terms of refinement, beauty and performance the last S was still better than the 2002 7 series monstrosity...
— Peyton18 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 5:35:23 PM | | Votes: -1

wrong there the current S class is certainly best in class the last generation wasnt at all....it was simply a large mercedes...the 2002 7 series redefined the segment and alot of the innovations BMW put into place on the 7 were introduced with the new S class...not to mention other brands.
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 5:51:35 PM | | Votes: -2

"wrestled it away? in terms of refinement, beauty and performance the last S was still better than the 2002 7 series monstrosity..."

Im starting to wonder if the 18 in your name points to your age or IQ. Either way, it seems accurate, since you sound pretty idiotic right now. You clearly have a bias towards the s, and it's obviously causing you to see it as something it clearly is not; it's nothing but a german ls460, whereas both the 7 and the A8 are the real sports sedans in the class.

— tattedtwice (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 10:20:39 PM | | Votes: -7

"You clearly have a bias towards the s, and it's obviously causing you to see it as something it clearly is not; it's nothing but a german ls460"

TALK ABOUT BIAS! There are some of us who are too blind to see what's right in-front of our eyes, or the crap we spew. For the record, the LS was an attempt at an S-Class over 18 years ago. Today, it still hasn't "equaled" the S-Class' greatness. You can debate me all you want, but that wont change the truth.
— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 11:43:51 PM | | Votes: 1

Interesting you try to demean me for my opinion even though its based on fact. The BMW was widely thought to be very odd if not ugly when it first came out in 2002. I am not 18 and I refuse to listen to someone who insults my intelligence when you are clearly bias towards plastic and mediocrity.
— Peyton18 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 1:02:00 AM | | Votes: 3

the point of this article was to show that not all the writers from TTAC are jackasses. lol
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 5:42:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Not only is it NOT a V12 or a 6.0 Litre engine as its badge suggests, but it's not even a class leading V-8. This is simply a sticker car, a mockery of what makes a car exotic and excessive poorly integrated engineering and technology.

Why dont they just call it what it is? or let the car speak for itself. The car is clearly an engineering marvel, but the way it was pieced together and where all the engineering went leaves some of us unfulfilled
— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 11:51:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

well you can say that about all the hybrids in their lineup. The GS450h uses the 3.5 liter, the RX400h uses the 3.3
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 12:04:41 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

LexusKindaGuy,

Yes, it can indeed be said for those models too. A little poetic freedom to differentiate the models further than a simple hl is okay. It has been done in the past by many car companies. However, there is something wrong when its compared to things which it isnt.
— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 11:06:44 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

I think the numbers equate to the combined power being equal to a 6.0l engine, or a 4.0 in the case of the rx or a 4.5 in the gs. Back in the 80's BMW did this with the turbocharged 745i. It was a turbocharged version of the 735i, and running 6psi of boost equated to the theoretical output of a naturally aspirated 4.5l engine. I have a feeling this is what lexus is doing. just like the 335 is a 3.0 but the 300hp is theoretical output of a tuned 3.5l inline 6.
— 85bmw745i (View Profile)

Posted on 6/10/2008 4:01:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Yeah sailor I hear ya on the knock off armani. I see people with Armani exchange shirts swearing it's real Armani, kinda like people wearing U.S. Polo association shirts saying "this is Polo" I say "no it's not, Ralph Lauren makes Polo, this is a knock off' Okay I'm getting off of the subject matter here but I had to say it.
— 85bmw745i (View Profile)

Posted on 6/10/2008 5:44:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

No, just No. A8 W12 is best for luxury, S63/S8 for perfomance luxury.
— EvoAudi (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 5:59:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

In all honesty as impressive as this car tries to be it is still a marketing gimmick. Someone explain to me how this heavy and frankly overpowered car is classified as green? When the electric motor isn't running the gas-guzzling V8 takes over and has to haul this heavy car from A to B. Sorry, but good fuel economy? Huh?
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 6:21:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

fuel efficiency does not define green.

the fact that it qualifies as a SULEV vehicle is good enough.

and also 20/22 from a 438 horsepower engine is also an accomplishment. my RX330 w ith 230 gets 18
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 7:00:27 PM | | Votes: -2

Fuel efficiency is a major aspect of being "green". A thirsty car like the LS600h might be classified as SULEV but its poor fuel economy doesn't make it a green car.

Like I said, this car is a marketing gimmick. I would rather be seen in an LS460, a car that doesn't pretend to be green.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 7:37:17 PM | | Votes: 5

SULEV: S? Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle!
one major emmission of cars is CO2 which is produced by the burning of fuel, so mileage is in fact very closely related to "greenness"
the LS600 is undoubtedly a good car, but more of a marketing strategy (which in no way is a bad thing), and an effort in the process of saving the planet, but obviously not such a good one based on the amount of bad reviews it got.

PS:in the article, "the LS doesn't announce i have a huge wallet" how's that exactly, when it costs very nearly the same as the other competitors...?
— nvme (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 1:41:52 AM | | Votes: 1

sulev stands for: Super ultra low emissions vehicle which is classified as 70% less smorg forming emissions than its competitors.
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 3:07:30 AM | | Votes: 2

Whatever people say. LS600hL looks great. I think it looks best in the class followed closely by S class.

JUGNU
— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 6:52:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Do they currently have the Lexus LS600hl in the Middle East?Im not trying to be a jerk or anything. Its just that comments like that make me question the credibility of your statements
— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 11:55:23 PM | | Votes: 1

remember, this generation LS is what lexus called the global flagship sedan. it is available everywhere they sell lexus
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 3:08:27 AM | | Votes: 0

Lexus accomplishes with 8 cylinders what the Germans need 12 to do.

LS600hl uses 16 barrels of oil a year and has a carbon footprint score of 8.7 (20/22/21mpg)
The S600 uses 24 barrels and scores 14 and 11/17/14mpg).
A8L 22 barrels and scores 12 (13/19/15mpg).
BMW 760Li 22 barrels and scores 12 (13/20/15mpg)
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

The regular A8 is 16/23/18mpg and 22 barrels.
Just for fun, here are the 6 cylinder 528i's numbers.
17 barrels and 9.2 score. (18/28/21mpg)
LS600hL looks pretty green to me (even a little greener than the LS460).

A marketing gimmick is a vehicle that's advertised as hydrogen but runs on gasoline.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 8:32:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Your post made absolutely no sense. You tell us that the LS accomplishes with 8 cylinders what the Germans need 12 to do? What exactly is it accomplishing that requires a German V12 to compete?
— Threepoint1415926 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 11:22:06 PM | | Votes: 5

Whoever said that 12 cylinder cars need to be efficient? Nobody every asked for this car. The point is the comparison is strictly erroneous because the car IS NOT a 12 cylinder car MEANING: It lacks 4 more cylinders, thats an additional 50% of its current engine to put it in perspective. Its amazing to see just how far people feed into these marketing stunts.

Soon enough Lexus will say "Hey, Lets call it a V16" and some people will actually see it as such
— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 12:02:51 AM | | Votes: 3

just about all v12 sedans are bought ONLY for BRAGGING rights. most have v8 siblings that crank out about the same or even more horsepower. the 12s may have a bit more low end torque, so on tip in, it FEELS more powerful just because of all the effortless torque WITHOUT the higher rpms.

with the MAXIMUM TORQUE from ZERO rpm of the electric motor, AND the high efficiency 460 v8, the LS will indeed provide the 'effortless feel' and unflustered PUSH of a v12.

AND it IS GREENER than all its competitors, as Huu points out.

— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 4:22:56 AM | | Votes: -3

Oh please, here we have the BS "it's greener than its competitors" hype again. The Germans don't market their V12's as "green cars".

The way I see it Lexus simply is targeting the German top V12 sedans in its marketing with its LS600h in order to "appear green" with the whole hybrid hype. Anyone buying an LS600h thinking they're doing something for the environment is kidding themselves.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 7:10:36 AM | | Votes: 1

if I wanted to get around the urban areas of DC (which I do usually) without getting stuck in traffic, I'll take my mass transit as usual over that hybrid.
— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 11:47:59 AM | | Votes: 0

well lets see, my new place requires me to walk 25-30 minutes to the closest metro stop. I prefer my old place which was just a 5-10 minute walk. getting to where I'm going (twinbrook to Bethesda for you locals) is about 10 minutes then a walk to the city. being in metro washington dc roadways (during rush hr)can be frustrating and I'm very impatient in a traffic jam.

tip to Washington DC visitors: DON'T GO TO NORTHEAST OR SOUTHEAST W/O SELF-DEFENSE! AND TAKE THE METRO ON WEEKDAYS (read my earlier rant)
— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 5:01:11 PM | | Votes: 1

"I didn't think people knew how to use public transport in the US :D"

it sucks, but its the quickest way to get around. :]
— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 5:02:38 PM | | Votes: 1

The LS600 will be on the cover of BlimpMobile.

All the other cars will be in Automobile :-\
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2008 9:51:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

Wa,that's the way blind people talking above.....
— hao420 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 12:32:45 AM | | Votes: 1

"huu76" The majority of people who buy the LS600 are ego-maniacs who want the superior badge regardless of whether or not it's even worth it.

The LS600 is slower than all of its V-12 competitors which makes it an even harder sell, anyone looking for a V-12 sedan isn't going to consider a slower similar priced V-8 sedan just for its gas mileage.

Honestly though if you prefer having a Hybrid powered & labeled sedan over a V-12 powered & labeled sedan, you simply have to question your auto-enthusiasm.
— MunichRob (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 5:33:38 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

I think everyone who buys a car in this segment including the Lexus has some of ego issue. No one really needs a vehicle of this capacity. To justify the capacity of their ego? Maybe. At the end of the day, you'll still be whingeing about how much petrol you spent to fill the tank.

From an automotive architectural POV, the Lexus is stunning.
— ABONHONareHT (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 8:22:21 AM | | Votes: 1

"I think everyone who buys a car in this segment including the Lexus has some of ego issue. No one really needs a vehicle of this capacity. To justify the capacity of their ego? Maybe."

EXACTLY. NO ONE buys these cars to be green. OR for performance. (except overage boy racers.)

the LS600 still will an EXCLUSIVE ADVANTAGE appealing to the Early Adapter types who are always interested in the BEST and LATEST in TECHNOLOGY.

— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 8:40:42 PM | | Votes: 0

...will still have
— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 8:50:22 PM | | Votes: 1

W209

Just shut up. What's your problem if to my eyes LS600hL looks better than the S550(S600 looks the same).

and yes u r right, LS600hL is still not officially sold here in Middle East. Dealers are thinking about it. And from Last month onward i heard Futtaim Motors(Toyota and Lexus delaer in UAE) can bring one for a coustomer who gives an order.

But stil there are quite a few LS600hL in UAE. I have seen two till now with one black colour LS600hL standing in the neighbouring Showroom imported from USA.

If u think S500 looks better, fine. But don't say "make me question the credibility of your statements" if i think LS600hL looks better.

JUGNU
— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 6:37:41 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

anyone who would say thst the LS's bland reinterpretation of the A8 and 5-series' styling is best in class lacks credibility, or eyes.

it's avery nice looking car, but it basically looks like a swollen Camry with BMW envy.
— pushrod27 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 7:58:39 AM | | Votes: 0

"What's your problem if to my eyes LS600hL looks better than the S550(S600 looks the same)"

The S550 has a 5.5 litre, 382 horsepower V-8 coupled with a 7 speed auto transmission, weighing 4465lbs and running 0-60 in 5.4 sec. for $87,575

The S600 has a 5.5 litre, 510 H.P., Bi-turbo, V-12 with a 5 speed auto, weighing 4960lbs and shooting 0-60 in 4.5 sec.for $145,075. It also has more standard features and options, such as more expensive interior craftsmanship, incredibly different suspension, balancing, and more powerful brakes.

Again, statements like the one above make us all question your credibility. If we examine all of the things youve said so far we just may find that youre the one that needs to shut up.
— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 11:20:00 AM | | Votes: -3

"JUGNU" it's not your fault, there are Lexus haters aplenty on this site but it's for good reason. It's not Lexus but the Lexus fan boys that bring a bad name to the point that anything positive said about Lexus, falls under major scrutiny by other users.

I for one don't agree with your comment as I see the S-Class as the better looking vehicle, nonetheless I respect your opinion & even gave you a little boost.
— MunichRob (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 9:25:05 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

LOL! what you say is somewhat true.

BUT...have you considered the FACT that a lot germy fan bois also CAUSE lexus fans to extend their dislike of the FAN's to the cars themselves?

JUSTIFIABLY, considering TOYOTAs as well as Lexi have far superior reliability, and the hybrid models ALSO display far more TECHNICAL ACHIEVEMENT?

— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 9:00:23 PM | | Votes: -2

yawn....same old flame war as always...gets old, you know?
— lexusrox123 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 1:32:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

MuichRob
Thanks u understood my point. U think S class looks better. Fine. I also respect your opinion.
(On differnt note, in my family all love new S class, so much more than the LS. With my Brother currently driving a S500 AMG package. Only i think LS looks better than S)

W209

Why u r so upset? i just said, to me LS600hL looks better than the S class. Why are u stretching it so much and saying stupid things like 'i question your credibility'...etc. Why?

i just said "S600 looks the same" mean S600 looks same as S500(S550 in USA). I know it's got different powertrain, price...etc.

JUGNU
— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 1:45:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

I can understand why you like the LS better, because when it's equipped with the right rims (NOT the standard, boring wheels) it's a very sleek, modern sedan. The S is chunkier, but when outfitted with the AMG pack it really looks fantastic.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 2:58:56 PM | | Votes: 1

Munichbob,
Why get 12cylinders when you can do the same with 8?
People may not be buying the LS600hL to save the planet, but it doesn't mean Toyota can't do it anyway as an added bonus.
The S600 is the only car that's faster, the LSh, 760Li and A8L all have pretty much identical performance.

Thesailor,
Why do the Germans always brag that their V8 and V10 diesels are so good for the env't if nobody buys it for the env't? Sounds to me the Germans just can't take being shown up again.
The LS600hL is even cleaner than some junky 528i.

w209,
Lexus could have used 12 cylinders but they knew 8 would be enough to beat the Germans.

Willis,
How green is the V12 Hydrogen7? BMW brags how clean this car is eventhough people who have it right now probably only put gasoline in, in which case it beomes a really inefficient V12.

threeopoint,
The LS accomplishes near V6 economy while cranking out performance equal to the V12s. That simplified enough for you?
Since BMW is supposed to have the best engines.
750i 0-60 in 6.1sec (15/23/18mpg
760Li 0-60 in 5.5 (13/20/15mpg)
LS600hL 0-60 in 5.5 (20/22/21mpg)
535i (turbo) 0-60 5.5sec (17/26/20mpg)
V12 performance, V6 efficiency, V6 emissions and green as the envy on the German's faces.
This is what the LS600hL accomplishes with 8 cylinders that the Germans need 12 for.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 9:23:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I can always count on you to give fallacious arguments. I think this time it was somewhere between a red herring and straw man. What's this crap "Since BMW is suppose to have the best engines"??? You deliberately pick the OLDEST most OUTDATED V12 in the German lineup knowing full well that the LS600hL doesn't compete against anything else. Oh, and thanks for the ad hominem again... I'm beginning to love those as well.

S600 0-60 4.2
S550 0-60 5.6
LS600hL 0-60 5.6

Looks to me like it takes Lexus an electric motor + a V8 to accomplish what a German can accomplish with a V8 alone. Simplified enough for you? Any talk that says the LS600hL is in the same league as a V12 ought not to be compared against anything but the outdated BMW power plant.

— Threepoint1415926 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 10:55:39 PM | | Votes: -2

But same acceleration and Higher Gas Mileage.
— StickShiftCamry (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2008 11:40:22 PM | | Votes: 0

"Why get 12cylinders when you can do the same with 8?"

That's the thing you seem to forget very often--IT CAN'T. THIS CAR DOES NOT MATCH THE 12-CYLINDER MERCEDES-BENZ S600 OR AUDI A8L W12 IN PERFORMANCE. CASE CLOSED.

"The S600 is the only car that's faster, the LSh, 760Li and A8L all have pretty much identical performance."

WRONG. THE A8 IS ALMOST A FULL SECOND QUICKER.

"The LS accomplishes near V6 economy while cranking out performance equal to the V12s. "

What???

It gets 20MPG. A six-cylinder LS (LS350?) would get about 25MPG. I love that you compared its performance to the slowest twelve-cylinder sedan on the market (760), but compared to the other two that you always seem to forget, it's a slow poke. Also, the new 760 will feature a bi-turbo V12 that will blow the LSh's performance away, while achieving similar fuel efficiency to the current model.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/11/2008 1:13:00 AM | | Votes: 1

Because it's over 1 second quicker from 0-60mph, and has every single feature on the S550 as standard equipment. A loaded S550 pushes $120K. $140K doesn't sound like a bad increase for the engine.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/11/2008 1:13:53 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

threepoint,
The S600 is a 5.5L V12. You're thinking of the V8 S63. I made the same mistake a few months back.
http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/index.cfm?id=4044
There's also the S65 AMG V12 bi-turbo model which just flies, but it better be for a juiced 6L engine.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/10/2008 12:15:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

You're right, I'm thinking of the S600 V12! A V12 is what you like to compare the Lexus to, not a V8. I made absolutely no mistake. The S550 V8 has the same acceleration as a Lexus V8 + electric motor. Stop trying to confuse readers into believing you.
— Threepoint1415926 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/10/2008 1:23:52 PM | | Votes: 2

threepoint,
If BMW is too old, here's the A8L W12 from 2005 (probably not much changed).
0-60 5.8sec and 15/21mpg.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=106174/pageId=64463
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/10/2008 12:24:48 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

There you go picking the slowest times again. Road and Track, Automobile and Audi themselves can get the job done in 5 flat.

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Audi/review/2007-audi-a8-l-w12-road-test/5358/

— Threepoint1415926 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/10/2008 1:44:46 PM | | Votes: 3

I never said the S600 wasn't faster. However, I also forgot to mention that the S600 is a V12 bi-turbo as well.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/10/2008 12:32:56 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

The purpose of getting the S Class is to establish your identity - leave your mark as you drive by and announce to the world "I've made it". Here's the test: if you were about to pick up a very important business client from the airport, would you show up in the latest S-Class or LS?

Gotta show up in the S Class.
— quizz (View Profile)

Posted on 6/10/2008 1:15:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

depends who the client is. the S represents, conservative, STODGY, been around awhile. MAYBE some clients favor that.

the LS represents FRESH, new, INNOVATIVE. also less COMMON, more exclusive. methinks many clients will be impressed MORE by these subtle messages.

— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/10/2008 1:47:17 AM | | Votes: -2

as I could care less about this segment, I don't know what you mean by the LS as "innovative" but the history of the S-class has more innovations than mostly any car in its class. the LS isn't a bad car, but people tend to overrated in sich an ignorant way.
— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/10/2008 11:02:19 AM | | Votes: 2

This thread was intended for the fan boys to attack the Germans and start yet ANOTHER flame war. That's what it was. It keeps this site interesting and I have to admit it does.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/10/2008 5:27:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

actually, you have it backASSward.

it is invariably the GERMY fanbois who START the attacking, thus PROVOKING COUNTER-attacks and eventually an all out flame war.

how many lexus fans do you see on german car threads? and why does EVERY thread with the slightest reference to lexus eventually gets INFESTED with germy fanbois with their putdowns?

— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2008 4:08:06 AM | | Votes: 1

threepoint,
The A8L W12 may or may not be faster than the LSh depending on the day. Motortrend, C&D, Road&Track and Edmunds consistently got 5.5 from the LSh.
Hybrids will only become faster and more efficient with each generation. You can only add so many cylinders to a car (which is the typically American thing to do I might add).
I'll trade in .5sec in 0-60 for up to 50% more mileage, 50% less emissions and a vehicle that's truly unique.
V12s, been there done that. The Toyota Century could keep pace with the Germans 10 years ago. Toyota decided to move on, the Germans can't.
If I really wanted a rocket, I'd get a 2007 STi or a 911.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/10/2008 7:07:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

"The A8L W12 may or may not be faster than the LSh depending on the day."

Wrong. The A8L W12 is faster, every day. Even the A8L 4.2TDI is as quick as the LSh.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/11/2008 1:15:15 AM | | Votes: 1

and just how many W12s have been sold over the years?

an argument MITE be made about it being technically 'interesting,' as is the LS600. but many would say it's A MECHANIC'S NIGHTMARE to service.

replacing the water pump on a VR6 is a HALF DAY job, while it's a mere 1/2 hour job on conventional engines. slap TWO vr6s to get a w12, and how much more excavating do you have to do, to get to certain engine vitals?

i very much doubt a few tenth's of a seconds is worth HOURS MORE for any repairs.

and considering the relative reliabilities of vw/audi and toyota/lexus, it's a virtual certainty that the former WILL REQUIRE far more servicing and repairs.

— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/11/2008 7:51:11 AM | | Votes: -3

There you go, making up stuff again. Show me just where Road and track (I'm sitting in front of their Road Test Summary that they publish every month in the back of their magazine at this very moment) C&D or Motortrend came up with 5.5 and I'll give you a sticker!

"I'll trade in .5sec in 0-60 for up to 50% more mileage, 50% less emissions and a vehicle that's truly unique."

That's the point! You DO give up something by not buying a V12! The LS600hL for that exact reason can not compete. Saying otherwise is marketing hype. It doesnt give you what a V12 does.
— Threepoint1415926 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/11/2008 5:08:54 PM | | Votes: 1

What are you even talking about? First of all, did you own a VR6-equipped vehicle? Secondly, why did you switch the topic so randomly? NOBODY CARES ABOUT F***ING RELIABILITY HERE. We're sick of hearing about it. I've owned five Audis and ALL OF THEM HAVE BEEN RELIABLE.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/11/2008 11:45:26 PM | | Votes: 1

i wouldn't touch a vr6 with a 10 foot pole.
and most vws, with a TWENTY FOOT pole.

i partnered with a mechanic briefly, buying fixable cars cheap, fixing and re-selling 'em at a profit.

we coulda picked up un a low mileage audi CHEAP. typically, it had A BEAUTIFUL interior; the leather was hardly worn.

but looking under the hood, we decided to pass. the owner appeared to have TRIED to fix it himself. (it was NOT running. he CLAIMED it just needed a fresh battery.) maybe it just needed a 'proper' tune-up. or maybe it needed an ENGINE TRANSPLANT. and we still knew nothing of the tranny.

i considered offering $100 or $200. but aside from insulting the guy, i thot EVEN THAT would've been a risk! even the $500 buick, and $200 chevy s-10 we bought and resold were FAR BETTER risks!
— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2008 7:17:01 AM | | Votes: 0

and did you KEEP any of your audis ONCE THE WARRANTY EXPIRED?

maybe vws/audis are not so DRASTICALLY less reliable than other cars in temperate and sunny climes. but here in the crucible of EXTREME alaskan weather and washboard road conditions, ONLY the TOUGH survive. i have had friends who once owned vws. they NEVER repeat their mistakes here. (in two cases, the cars originated from 'outside.' few seasoned alaskans would EVER buy a used vw. but few even MAKE IT to the used car market. lol! the above mentioned audi with a defunct engine likely went to a 'recycler' rather than a used car lot.)

in a third case, the guy loves and RESTORES OLD bugs. that may've been the LAST reliable vw.

— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/12/2008 7:32:33 AM | | Votes: 0

threepoint,
Road&Track, 0-60 in 5.4 without a full battery.
63mph slalom.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0707_Lexus-Gulfstream_dp.pdf

1/4mile speed equal to the Bentley Continental
LS600hl's slalom speed was higher than both the Bentley and the S600.http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/sedan/112_0608_fullsize_luxury_sedan_comparison/specs.html

I'd say the LS600hl competes quite well against V12s, and especially given it has a poorer weight/hp ratio (11.6lb) vs the other two (which are both V12 twin turbos).
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2008 2:10:57 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/sedan/112_0608_fullsize_luxury_sedan_comparison/specs.html
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/14/2008 2:13:02 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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