Would YOU Buy This Over A 5-Series? Toyota Thinks So...

They still have not successfully taken out the three series!

— kpaxx (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 10:38:22 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

Says who, auto journalists? A Lexus won't be a BMW just like a MB won't be a BMW. BMW won the lottery when the know nothings arbitrarily picked BMW to be the standard.
Best comment ever was the original Lexus IS being faulted for having too much of a sporty feel vs the last 3 series. Even when Lexus wins BMW can't lose.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 10:45:48 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6   

Not impressed by the 2.5L though. Should jam Subaru's 2.5L boxer in there.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 10:46:29 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6   

Hyundai just called they want their gameplan back. Isn't this the Toyota Genisis Sedan? Compete with BMW never with an X for a badge.

— rigid (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 10:52:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

its a nice car. they should replace the avalon with the mark x. it wont compete with the 5 series any better than the gs does, but on its own looks like a strong offering.

the only thing i don't like is the emblem on the grille. but that would surely be replaced with a toyota emblem.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 11:09:54 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

Yeah I agree 1995e34 or atleast the ES350/250. This would make for a nice Camry/ES replacement.

— Mason3Robert (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 11:23:40 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 10   

I wouldn't buy either they are both FUGLY

— pennfootball (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 11:24:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

A Toyota X sedan or a BMW 5 Series? Hmmm.... gee....ahhh.... now there's a tough choice. What?

— 204E60 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 11:32:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Since I think the BMW 5 series is one of the ugliest luxury sedans out there, yes, I'd take that over the BMW.

— Invisible (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 11:44:01 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

If the end result is a truly great car and you don't care to impress others for no reason, then a person might choose the Toyota.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 11:44:05 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

BMW never will be as Toyota.....and a Toyota never will be a BMW..however...People now is looking for economy and reliability...And in that case Toyota is the clear winner. Still I prefer the 5 series, it is not logic but the heart, some times have reasons that the mind do not understand....I prefer MB over BMW, casue BMW will never be as MB on the Road, where I use to be.

— Yonder7 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 11:46:44 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

No, I would not consider this over the 5-series or even the GS.

— LuxuryFan (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 12:06:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

Chrysler wants thier headlights back.

— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 12:10:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

BMW people are very loyal and it will be difficult for Toyota to get them to buy that car just because it's rear wheel drive and has enough hp.

— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 12:36:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8   

Well where does this leave the GS. I truly like the GS line, but I think it has such a stigma attached to it here in the States as a niche vehicle that wanted to be a Euro competitor, most just overlook it and go right to the LS. Face it, the LS has never been seen as sporty as a S class or 7 Series, so why see the GS as a direct competitor to the 5 ( and it is for the most part) Rather than focused on the GS, the ES and IS has made more in roads, while the GS sits there, the middle child. That said, Lexus should re-focus on the GS and not muddy the water even more with this new X model. This will become a Lexus model non the less. So it will push the GS further into obscurity.

Lexus doesn't have the some focus as MB or BMW with product and pricing in the middle segment. For example, the GS 350 starts at $45K. ES $35K and the HS between $36-42K. The new X model will come in where? See the point. When considering a GS model, a Lexus customer is thinking why purchase it for $45K and is lesser know model in the product line. You really have to want the GS to get one. It seems like the GS days are numbered. When was the last time you spotted a comparison with any other make and the GS?

— inspirion7 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 12:46:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

And this can be distinguished from the hoary Avalon... how?

— macbjg (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 1:49:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Cause it have other name?

— Yonder7 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 1:54:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

i wonder who said it would compete with the 5 series? Did Autocar say that or did Toyota? I doubt Toyota said this was their 5 series competitor when it's not the Lexus GS. Which is DIRECTLY aimed at the 5 series. Sure it's a good shot, it might not be the sportiest thing on the planet but it doesn't need to be. Not everyone goes autocrossing in their 50K+ luxury sedan. Were not all Tanner Foust so we don't need to drift for a living. Some people actually want luxury dependability resale value and creature comforts. Which is what Lexus strives to be the best at, and they are. No one said Lexus is targetting BMW's sportiness nor is this new Toyota. People (auto journalists) just do that BMW benchmark standard because they are motorsport biast. Base the car off something besides it's sportiness and the Lexus's and Toyota's would be right there at the top of the list.

— freshseth83 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 2:31:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

The BMW has more HP and almost definitely handles better than the Toyota, the Toyota is no longer considered reliable, so we could assume they are comparable in reliability, now for people concerned about looks, this Toyota is UGLY, the BMW looks great, So the toy isn't as sporty or as attractive, what was the question again? lol Was that supposed to be a hard question?

— truckman (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 2:33:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

"the Toyota is no longer considered reliable, so we could assume they are comparable in reliability"

You are joking right? Don't bother trying to Compare any BMW reliability to that of Toyota.
is

— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 2:51:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

this is what i hate about autospies...instead of just reviewing the new toyota x sedan like a normal automotive magazine, they must ask something to rattle up the fanboys of toy/lex vs bmw... Would you buy this over a 5 series??? hmmm well considering one is made by an economy class car manufacturer and the other is a luxury appointed sedan probably not...but maybe instead of starting POINTLESS flame wars, you could compare it to a car it actually competes with?

— GeorgeWJoke (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 3:44:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8   

Adding RWD to the ES does NOT automatically make it an automatic 5 series competitor. Those engines are horribly outclassed by those offered on the E60 not to mention the engine offerings on the upcoming F10. No bias here, just a realistic assessment. I'm not entirely sure what car Lexus would be targeting with X Sedan in its present form.

— GreenPlease (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 3:44:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Toyota has been building versions of this car, the Mark X (previously called the Mark II and in some versions and markets, the Cresta and Cressida) for years. In fact, this is a very mild facelift at best because it doesn't look much different from the ones I see driving around Jamaica right now. It has always been a rear drive sedan with 6 cylinder engines (sometime I4s as well), geared towards the luxury side of the equation, so nothing new there. Calling it a 5 Series competitor isn't really true. I suppose if you have that kind of money you may want to look at EVERYTHING that money can get you, but for all intents and purposes it won't bother BMW one bit. Different type of customers all together.

— tango (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 4:22:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Agent63
"Lexus marks claim the LS is a true Bentley and Rolls Royce competitor"

could you please give a link where toyota claimed this.

Btw Toyota Mark X, Mark II, Crown..etc have always been JDM only.
I have driven current and some old Mark models both coupes and sedans (Imported)and they were nice sporty, spacious and value for money cars.
They are also very reliable and great for tuning. Most people who like other JDM models like R33 and R34 GT-R, Honda S2000...etc also like Mark models. The have very unique appeal. Markets and customers of regions where these cars don't sell won't understand it.

JUGNU

— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 4:44:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Yawn!!

Wake me up when Toyota builds a desirable car.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 5:50:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Umm thats a Lexus ES with a Toyota badge, guys.

It will be sold in Japan and some parts of Asia only, guys. Dont have a Fu-king Coronary over it

Sources:

Lexus ES= http://www.lexus.com/models/ES/?s_ocid=AllModels_ES_Display_Info

Will be sold in Japan=

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/244171/

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 10/19/2009 8:44:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

lol another ES variant.. or is it a Camry variant?

— M53R (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2009 1:37:52 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

LOLOLOLOL.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2009 1:59:15 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Easy: Nope.

Btw: Are the floormats in this camryversion 21.9-reloaded now glued to the carpet?

— agent507 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2009 2:20:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

@HyundaiSmoke

For you and the other idiots it has nothing to do with the ES350. If you could read then you would know that the mark X is RWD!

— STJ88 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2009 7:41:09 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

it occurs to me, all the references to "camry look alike" or "camry derivative" only emphasizes HOW ELEGANT and LEXUS LIKE the camry really is.

even going back two generations, the camry has always featured the BEST LOOKING PROFILE not only in its class, but among ALL mid size sedans. mainly due to the sleek, elegant C-pillar. that C-pillar design is also common to most Lexus models.

and it has even been copied by Cadillac.

the profile of camrys with that sleek pillar make them look more upscale than ANY competing mid-size, even on OLDER camrys (vs. equal age competition).

it's only when you compare the front and rear views that the BIG differences are seen between camrys and lexuses.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2009 7:46:16 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

X-Saloon? So would this be an ES saloon or a GS saloon or slated in the middle somewhere as it shares similar features with both?

And how can they look at the 5 series seriously when the IS still falls short of the 3 or even the C-class.

— Whelan (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2009 8:32:55 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Uhh...no. I'd still pick the Bimmer.

— Type707 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2009 5:57:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

It Sure looks the same to me STJ88. Its an ES with a Toyota badge, and Im sticking to what my eyes see.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2009 8:57:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Most of us here are judging this based solely off of its looks, which is fine, but I'd rather wait for more tactile observations of the car. Maybe this car is more luxurious and sportier than the 5-Series (and subsequent GS and ES)?

— Anthony (View Profile)

Posted on 10/20/2009 11:18:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1