New EPA Mileage Ratings Promise To Bring Hybrid Claims Down to Earth

New EPA Mileage Ratings Promise To Bring Hybrid Claims Down to Earth
Since the federal government began estimating the fuel economy of new vehicles 33 years ago, it's been careful to note that actual mileage may vary.

And how, say motorists who don't get the mileage that appears on the window sticker.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency hopes to curb such complaints in early December when it announces new rules for calculating its estimates. They'll be rolled out beginning on 2008 model year cars.

Though the new procedures are expected to reduce the estimates from 5 percent to 25 percent, the agency's boilerplate warning will still apply: Your mileage will vary.

"We are very confident these new values will be more reflective of the real world, but how you drive is still the more important factor," said Margo Oge, director of the EPA's transportation and air quality division. "They should always be viewed as estimates. We don't want consumers to view them as absolute values."

Dave Warnke of West Bend, Wis., can attest to that. He averages 52 miles per gallon from his Toyota Prius, while his wife gets 42 from a Prius.

Warnke, however, is not complaining.

"It all depends on how you drive it, and whether you get the engine up to full operating temperature," said Warnke, an electrical engineer who was attracted by the Prius' technology more than the mileage.

His 85-mile round-trip commute to the south side of Milwaukee is mostly on freeways, where he zips along at 55 to 65 m.p.h.

His wife drives less than six miles to and from work, and Warnke thinks that's not far enough for the gas engine to get fully warm, when it operates more efficiently. His wife's Prius tops 50 m.p.g. on the freeway.


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audiotaudiot - 11/20/2006 2:12:25 PM
-1 Boost
The EPA issue will not be an issue, especially when gas-only cars see their MPG slashed as well.

The bigger issue is that current hybrids underperform. They don't get 100-200% better mileage over average cars that they should be getting to pay for themselves earlier than 3-5 years out. They're not there yet. That's why hybrids are still a specialty technology. Call it 1st gen tech if you want. So why not wait?


Agent009Agent009 - 11/20/2006 4:19:36 PM
-1 Boost
Actually Gas only cars typically fall within the city and highway when driven by the typical driver. The Hybrid's tend to have a higher discrepancy in the real world.

The Hybrids tend to be very sensitive to driver style compared to gasoline and diesel counterparts.


XYZZXYZZ - 11/22/2006 2:50:01 AM
+1 Boost
well, and why not?

hybrids are MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED machines. any ordinary dolt can still drive one, but it takes above average intelligence (RARE in some places) to extract the maximum potentials they are capable of.


rockerrocker - 11/20/2006 2:15:09 PM
+3 Boost
There is the problem with gas consumption in the US. IT is not the vehicles but the distances people drive to go to work. Where is mass transit? Why can't we have even a small percentage of the mass transit that other countriea have?


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 11/20/2006 3:10:29 PM
+3 Boost
Will it reveal how inaccurate the highway mpg ratings are on GM's antiquated pushrod engines? Or how little displacement on demand helps mpg in real world driving?


dealerdealer - 11/20/2006 5:11:51 PM
-2 Boost
Oh, please. Having owned 3 GM cars I can tell you that the highway mileage rating is only around 10% off, you idiot.

But the CITY MILEAGE rating IS TWICE WHAT YOU REALLY GET!


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 11/20/2006 7:38:49 PM
+1 Boost
Wow name calling. That's mature. Grow up. And stop lying.


XYZZXYZZ - 11/22/2006 3:00:52 AM
+1 Boost
"only around 10% off..."

well that is STILL in error, by a not insignificant margin.

how about the EPA also being in error but UNDERstating the mpg potential of a modern, efficient dohc engined car?

i've gotten 40 mpg in MIXED driving with my corolla. better that the HWY rating for the old echo.


Autoegr525Autoegr525 - 11/20/2006 7:35:57 PM
+2 Boost
The best quality of the fuel economy ratings is that it provides a basis of comparison to other vehicles. Actual mileage will always be much different between drivers. Changing the test wont accomplish much, except to make comparing new cars to old ones nearly impossible


chewychewy - 11/20/2006 8:34:20 PM
-2 Boost
I have been sayint that the whole time. ALL MPGs will fall, but Hybrids will fall MORE.


BMWreplicatBMWreplicat - 11/21/2006 1:07:09 AM
+2 Boost
My DD Civic is rated at 32/38 and I see 40mpg average regularly. 300hwy 200city miles on a full tank.


audirevolutionaudirevolution - 11/21/2006 3:53:47 PM
+2 Boost
Hybrid MPG's will fall more because they are higher rated.
But overall, they still will get better MPG than regular petrol cars.


chewychewy - 11/21/2006 10:07:01 PM
+1 Boost
That is true, but they hype will go down as the realistic numbers aren't that amazing.


XYZZXYZZ - 11/22/2006 3:09:52 AM
+1 Boost
despite all the naysayers, hybrids will ALWAYS yeild better mpg figures. they are engineered to do so.

different standards may affect the relative ratings. they will NOT change the fact that hybrids will STILL go further on a gallon of gas. just as a 4 will STILL go further than a V8.

test rules do NOT change basic physics.


XYZZXYZZ - 11/22/2006 3:17:44 AM
+1 Boost
"...of 303 vehicles it has tested over six years, only 29 equaled or exceeded the EPA estimates."

which is almost 10%. and proves it IS possible. my experience is NOT exceptional.


gregsfcgregsfc - 11/24/2006 3:38:12 PM
+1 Boost
"Real world tests show the Prius gets 45mpg in regular driving (not Miss Daisy driving). Diesels don't even get that EPA, in fact, they're even lower than hybrids in real world."
-huu76

Not just wrong, but it's quite the opposite of this understudied statement. Go to www.fueleconomy.gov. They have a new column that gives data from actual drivers' avg. fuel economy. All the DIESELS do better than the EPA estimates; much better. That includes the E320 CDI, VW New Jetta / New Beetle TDI, Jeep Liberty CRD, and the VW Toureg TDI. For instance, the 2006 New Jetta TDI (PD) manual gets 42.1--avg user. The New Jetta with the standard 2.5 I5 gets 24--avg. user. That's alot of mpg for $1,100. The diesel gets 80% better fuel economy where the epa estimates would show only 42% better mileage.

The hybrids all score worse than the epa estimate. The only one even close is the Honda Civic Hybrid.

I'm not worried a bit about diesels under the new system. I'm confident that they'll shine, just like mine at home does running 20% biodiesel.




gregsfcgregsfc - 11/24/2006 3:52:59 PM
+1 Boost
But hybrid real world mileage will still be higher than the hyped up Bluetec diesels, and cleaner...and far, far cheaper. I'm going to say more reliable as well
- huu76

Wrong again! First we must compare a hybrid that is comparable to a BlueTec. Okay--the only thing close is the Toyota Camry and the Honda Accord. Actual test from magazine correspondents are getting 31, real-world, mixed driving with the BlueTec. The Camry came in at under 30. The Camry can use up to 10% ethanol which will further hurt fuel economy up to 3%. The BlueTec can use any blend of biodiesel or synthetic diesel with virtually no loss in fuel economy.

There is no way a hybrid technology is cheaper than diesel technology. Okay, a Toyota Camry is cheaper than a Mercedes E Class, but that has nothing to do with engine technology. Why would one pick a technology and compare it to one brand of diesel, and say it is cheaper. The VW TDIs will be far cheaper than a Lexus SUV hybrid.

No way a hybrid is cleaner than a clean diesel running B100. And no way that Toyota can build millions of hybrids for the American market by 2008. With diesel tech, we can have millions in the market by 2009 in all vehicle classes from all manufacturers. They are already being built by the millions today.

How can you say hybrids will be more reliable? They haven't proven themselves. I think semi-trucks running the same engine for 1-million miles proves diesel technology.

Keep trying to stamp out the prospect of diesels--hybrid folks. It's not going to happen. They are too good, and the auto industry knows it! Nothing wrong with hybrids, but you guys need to quit being so paranoid of such a superior internal-combustion engine. Fifty-one percent of European buyers cannot all be wrong.


gregsfcgregsfc - 11/24/2006 4:02:04 PM
+1 Boost
I have been sayint that the whole time. ALL MPGs will fall, but Hybrids will fall MORE.

- Chewy

Hybrids score high on EPA test because of the way the city test is conducted. They hook the vehicle up to a machine; start a cold engine; and run it at a slow speed with some stops; then they subtract 15%. Most all cars score worse in the city than the estimate. The hwy estimates are often underestimated, but the city--way overestimated.

Hybrids do so well with the EPA, because hybrids do better in the city, but not as well as the way the tests make them come out to show. It's nothing against hybrids; its against the tests. Hybrids are still a worthy investment. We'll spend thousands more on a car, because it'll do 0-60 one second faster, but if we bring in a tech. that improves MPG, everyone wants excuses not to buy them. I'm not sure I get it!

Diesels don't have to beat out hybrids. Hybrids don't have to beat out diesels. They have both proven worthy technologies to reduce petroleum consumption and greenhouse gasses, and this is what we need in America. Not Hemi V8s.


gregsfcgregsfc - 11/24/2006 4:18:20 PM
+1 Boost
Diesels continue to catch a bum rap concerning emissions.

Everyone that does not understand modern diesel technology needs to come up to 2006 before making ignorant statements about modern diesels.

-avg. 30% better fuel economy than comparable, gas-powered cars.

-highly refined, quiet, powerful, torquey, and efficient in all driving situations for all applications.

-as litte as 20% less greenhouse gasses as comparable, gas-powered vehicles.

- fewer levels of carbon monoxide (CO)

- fewer levels of total hydrocarbons (THCs)

- able to use any blend of various alternative fuels with no engine modifications or loss in fuel economy. There is not a single, alternative-fuel solution for gas engines that can make that claim.

- with the new ULSD fuel, and PM filters, diesels will now be on par with gas-powered vehicles with respect to particulates. Diesel tech. lowered PM over 80% in just one year to achieve this "on-par" status.

-diesels now trail gas-power only as it relates to nitrogen oxides. They do so much better in so many ways, but fall only in regards to one substance. This substance must react with volitile organic compounds (VOCs) to create smog. VOCs come mostly from gas-powered cars, and very little are emitted from diesels.


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