Audi S6 is a MAJOR dissapointment compared to BMW M5 and Benz E63 AMG

German nut trys to start another flame war

THE A6 is not a M5 and E63 competitor. I love my S6
and it has an MSRP in the 70k range. The S6 fits nicly between the 550 and the M5 to me and is priced accordingly

There's clearly not much standing in the way of Audi's ambition to build the world's best high-performance luxury car, as very few cars in the world can match the 2007 Audi S6's performance on the road. Unfortunately for Audi, the cars that can match and even exceed the S6's performance happen to be the BMW M5 and Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG, which combine leading-edge technology with lavish creature comforts in a way the new S6 cannot yet match.

But the situation might be changing, as a new, more powerful Audi RS6 should debut at the 2007 Geneva Show. Built by Quattro GmbH (an Audi subsidiary) just like the RS4, this new RS6 will be powered by a turbocharged version of the S6's V10. We're expecting an output somewhere around 550 hp, a number that could change the game completely.

EXACTLY! the S6 is NOT a direct competitor to these two models. It is slotted well below the E63 and M5, and the RS6 will be slotted above or equal to those two. The RS6 will be a much more suitable match, and a more practical machine with the addition of AWD. Not to mention that grand Audi elegance than MB and BMW simply cannot pull off at this point. Like its been said, stop trying to start a brand war when its obviously not a competitor.

Guys, who is the S6 for then? Who wants to spend $75k and not be driving a competitor to BMW and Mercedes? Who wants to be told, your car isn't as good as the RS6, you might as well have just gotten an M5 for 10k more. You can explain things all you want, but people who buy these cars don't want to buy a 2nd best car.

If the RS6 is the real car we're supposed to be focusing on, then stop bringing out S6's and then downplaying their inability to compete. You know?

I think Edmunds is as confused over the Audi S-versions as we are.

A MB e550 or BMW 550i can both go from 0-60 in less than 5.7 sec and cost less.

"Compared to the BMW M5 and AMG E63, the S6 just doesn't deliver". what else is new???? nut, would you stop posting this nonsense please?. nothign audi does is even remotely respectable, and unlike homer said.. it is more or a direct rival to the e550 and 550. these numbers are surely bested by both those cars... a new low for audi. and a Lambo engine??? im sure that came handy!!... heheheh

can someone please remove this guy??
Agent001: he makes ur site look like the playground behind my house with 5 year olds arguing about the swings.

and homer... when the crappy rs6 shows up.. BMW is planning on having a M5 csl which will add 50HP and in true (purebred) fashion, reduce the weight. as you can read.. all wheel drive just doesnt cut it.

Bimmer u are an idiot.
U make M5 look like crap with ur comments.
S6 is just an A6 with some power in it, not a sports car regardless of what Audi an anyone else is saying.

RS will be the one to be sporty and stuff... (which 99% of people here cant handle)

Edmunds: great source btw... my grandma says fiat punto is the best car in the world--start a flame war over that!

it will never make it to the US
and remember I am not calling BMW crapy
you coments show off your IQ

Once again, we're confronted with the quattro quandary, as an all-wheel-drive car is better in tricky weather conditions than a rear-wheel-drive car that has its vehicle stability control in full crisis mode. The rest of the time, however, the quattro advantage could become a liability to the sporty driver.

if u were a driver u would know 4wd is better than any rwd car... so go play gran turismo and think u r someone

RWD is a ton of fun.

But why am I talking to you anyway? You're an idiot!

Whoops, meant AWD. But they both are.

AmazingBimmer do you think the Audi R8 will have less than respectable performance and less than respectable looks?

R8 is not Audi's leading car here... it is better than any BMW, but so are many other models

Too bad AUDI has to build a Mid engine layout, sacrificing a lot of convenience, to get to the performance that they can be proud of. And still get smoked by a Front engine, 4 seats Nissan GT-R at Nurburgring.

What a pity.

Another notknowanything!
Audi was the first to use midengine layout, and i guess u would rather see a front engined supercar.

People why dont u read something usefull instead of these posts here

Oh, did I forget to mention another 4 seats supercar? EVO FQ400. At 1:24.8 on TopGear, it beats Lambo Gallardo at 1:25.8.

Now, are you going to tell me R8 is better and faster than Gallardo? If that's the case, AUDI will be in deep shit in terms of product planning, which I don't think they are that stupid.

Next time, learn something useful for your argument.

Ohh yes, and u probably know that the R8 with a 4.2 (less powerfull than the gallardo) managed to lap the nurgburg ring in exactly the same time. Again no R8 with a V10 mentioned here.

So yes i am fairly confident R8 can go up against FQ400 and Gallardo, which will soon get a powerboost.

OK Kiddies sing along......M=BMW's Motorsport Arm.

AMG=Mercedes-Benz Motorsports Arm.


RS Whatever=Audi's Motorsports Arm. RS6 will DOMINATE!

German Nut.. i beleive the r8 will be a good car.. i just fail to understand audi's marginal effort. you cant field this sh*t in these cateogories and expect to win. Its no wonder lexus is eating their lunch. why launch a s6 before the rs?. look at porsche.. the top variatn (other than the 911 turbo) is usually released first.. it garners the following and then they release less expensive versions. Audi needs to learn from its future owners.

and mr. Phaeton (stillborn crap car). Audi will never dominate anythign as long as MB and BMW come to the party.. you only get table scraps!!. learn to live with it. I have a 06 M5. I gurantee you it will smoke the rs6 when its released.

Wow......are your feathers all all puffed up like a pea
cock now...........The Phaeton is a wonderful car you've never had the pleasure of driving. Sales of the Phaeton and Flying Spur are great in Europe where they don't require a rolling phallic symbol, they are secure with their manhood.......LOL

the pahaeton was a flop, but it is a good car.

Audi DOMINATES MB and BMW since 2004, and it will be complete by the end of next year so go cry to ur daddy who just bought a bmw, and tell him he bought the wrong car

ok we believe you
and your other car is the Quattroporte
and the car you drive on Mondays is the Porsche Turbo

Ohh i didn't realise you were talking about Match cars

Well this is what i am saying from day 1.I wrote many posts just to explain this what Edmunds proved.The S6 is nothing in front of the mighty E63 AMG and my M5.

BTW this is comming from an Audi fan.Surprise,atlast they believed it.

JUGNU

People calm down. The BMW M5 has been clocked @ 0-60 in 4.1 seconds. Edmunds doesn't know how to drive with any sort of perfrormance. They got 4.7 for the M5 while others got 4.1. Road & Track got the S8 that has a bit more hp but weights a bit more to 0-60 in 4.7 seconds. Edmunds is lame when it comes to acceleration times.

Edmunds has some work left to do in learning how to launch a car [especially a four wheel drive one]

If all the models are currently for sale then its a fair test. Of greater concern is how come different testing "authorities" keep getting acceleration and breaking times very different from manufacturers' claims. Any engineers that can explain why the Audi in this case did not do well but the BMW and Merc did ok in the acceleration test please.

Did the Audi have fewer miles on the clock and needed to be "run-in" more? Were the Audi spark plugs or electronics playing up such that the vehicle could perform under stress? Did the Audi have optional tires which somehow effected the times?

I have seen other tests where just one vehicle failed to meet the manufacturers' claims. Most recently we had the Lexus LS460 recording a mediocre 0-60 time.

What causes these apparently random readings?

Edmunds sucks at testing cars, the M5's best 0-60 time is 4.1 seconds Edmunds got 4.7. The suck at launching the cars, especially all wheel drive ones.

Rupert-
The Phaeton tanked in the Bling driven U.S. market but continues to be a hit in Europe and Asia....Hell, you could put the 3-pointed chrome star or the Blue and White propeller on a sack of dogshit and call it Benz/BMW potpourri and the status driven Idiots would buy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i wouldnt say its a hit in europe (in the Uk they are selling them with 10000 dollars off) but i'm sure in asia it's doing well. it will be doing better in continental europe anyway, we in the UK are the most american of them all, we like our badges lots, german=best here, american=worst. thats why cadillacs don't sell well here.
oh and regards to "ou could put the 3-pointed chrome star or the Blue and White propeller on a sack of dogshit and call it Benz/BMW potpourri and the status driven Idiots would buy it!"
they did. it's called the original M class and the 316 compact.

U tell em Phaetonmeister...the Phaeton is probably one of the best executed cars produced. If you guys have not had a chance to spend time in one, you should.

The AudiRS6 wont dominate, it will never get the node over the M5. The BMW M5 created this segment, it is the benchmark, its the car Audi and MB aspire to build. Its almost imposible to build a car better than the car that defines a certain segment. Kind of like the porshe 911 defines the sports car segement, no car has beaten it in pure driving pleasure, because it is the car that defines that segment(sure there are cars that are faster but that doesnt mean they are better). The M5 blends luxury with driving dynamics that will satisfy the most hardcore of entusiests, and no one can do that better than BM.

The old RS6 killed the M5, just like the RS4 has killed the M3. Undoubtedly the new M3 will be the class-leader.

But, Audi is on a roll. It would be odd to see it broken now. I just read in EVO magazine that, "Whichever way you look at the R8, it feels like the biggest threat to the 911's dominance we've seen."

M5 has the name. Old RS6 wasnt dangerous at all, but the e55 was... freaky triangle keeps lighting up

When the new RS6 come, I am putting my money on the table it will be the best sports saloon in the world

Uh, then why did all the comparison tests put the RS6 in first? They wouldn't overlook something that trivial in a PERFORMANCE SEDANS comparison test.

"The RS4 on the other hand is amazing! But it did need an additional 40 horsepower (over the old RS4) to beat the M3, but then it did so very properly, even though the M3 was seen as the Benchmark!"

Well, the entire reason it needed the extra power is because it had M3-whooping AWD! If it wa RWD, well, if it was RWD it would have a completely different driving experience, but if it was RWD it could make do with a standard 350hp V8 and beat the M3. The RS4's engine is too good to say it "needed" the extra power. Why not give it the extra power if you can? And they certainly could. Those engineers never get tired of playing with the trusty ol' 4.2L V8!

uh, define all comparison tests? The old RS6 won some comp. test because it was outragiouly fast for the time, but it did lack in the handeling department. And the current A6's are based on the same basic philosophy as the old ones...so the the flaws that plaiged the last gen. will probalbly pop up once again. Though im sure it will be silly fast.
Iv also noticed that many of the auto journalists for some mags. are "seasoned" vets, and by seasoned I mean older. They are maybe going to give the most comftorable car in a comp. test the node. b/c this it whats appealing to them at that stage in there lives. for ex in one mag. the e63 got the node over the s6 and m5. I dont know how they came to that, when the topic was performance sedans.In actuality the targeted buyer for these high performance sedans are successful people in there 30s and 40s, a 50 of 60 year old wouldnt know what do to with 500+ hp.
The M5 blends handeling, power,and braking perfectly. not one is outragiouly better than the other, they are all balenced, and impressive. This blend is what makes the M5 the best, its what makes the m5 so rewarding to drive.

And I dont know why you bring up the RS4, and compare it to a BMW that is no longer in porduction.

The trusty ol 4.2 is not that great of a motor.I mean good job audi its your first 100 hp per liter NA engine. BMW's M motors are over 100hp per liter, and so smooth, but hey dont take my word for it. Google international engine of the year. BMW is the most winning engine manufacturer period, they have won more awards for there engines than any other car company 5 times over. I mean thats what 60 or whatever of the top car journalists opinions are.

Hey, okay, I'm 50 and I know how to drive a lot better than you, KID.

I also have a 4.2L V8 in my S4 and it's better than any car you've owned!

If you ask me, the Audi S6 doesn't compete with the BMW or Benz.

It's the RS6 which does. Is Audi ever going to make one again?

The new RS6 with 580 hp will debut at next year's Geneva auto show.

The 2001 s6 had 340hp the rs6 had 450 ish, the new S6 has 420hp. The 2000 rs4 had 380 and the new one has 420 thats only 40hp diff.The new Rs6 wont have 580, I know you really want it to, but it wont.A more realistic number would be 530 give or take 10hp. If you havent noticed most of the manufactures up the hp on cars at a fairly constant rate. for example 30 percent every model generation.

I see your logic, but...

"The new Rs6 wont have 580, I know you really want it to, but it wont."

How do you know the Audi engineers won't go above and beyond, putting all their effort into making this one of the most powerful production engines they've ever made? How do you know they won't surprise us all by putting in a 600HP twin-turbo V10? Anything could happen. I wouldn't use something like that to guess how much power the car will have. With its AWD heaviness, it will need the extra power to beat the M5.

I dont know if they will put 600hp in the rs6.lol. Im just saying its highly unlikely.If they do, good for them,it would be something else...

I don't think these people get it...
The RS6 is the competitor for the E63 and M5, not the S6. Does the S4 compete with the M3? NO! The RS4 does. This applies to the RS6 and S6 as well.

The S6 has 435 hp. The RS6+ had 480 hp. The new RS6 will have 580 hp. The last 8 cylinder engine had 450-480 hp / 8= 56.25-60*10= 560-600. 580 is right down the middle of that.

we will see.

Wow, this is a stupid article. If the S6 was as good as the M5 or E63, then they might as well call it the RS6. GermanNut, I'm surprised this came from you.

My son got a ride in a neighbor's friend's S8 today, a month old, brand-spanking-new car. I couldn't come because I was at the store... too bad! My son, who's in college and really has an appreciation for cars, said that it might've been the most fun he'd ever had in a big sedan. They were on the highway, and the owner asked my son how fast he thought they were going. He guessed 90. The owner said, "Well, about 120..." The guy had gone from 0-120 and my son hadn't even noticed! It also had the B&O sound system, which was very cool. One finishing touch: they drove by a Lamborghini Gallardo, the owner said, "That's my engine!" And my son said, "Oh, so now it makes sense. It's a Lamborghini that can carry five people and go to the airport!" Exactly!

GermanNut, one more thing- you've stated that the S6 doesn't compete with the other two before, which it does not. Why are you saying this now? Even edmunds said that...

"...the situation might be changing, as a new, more powerful Audi RS6 should debut at the 2007 Geneva Show. Built by Quattro GmbH (an Audi subsidiary) just like the RS4, this new RS6 will be powered by a turbocharged version of the S6's V10. We're expecting an output somewhere around 550 hp, a number that could change the game completely."

Wow the S6 does 0-60 in 5.7,thats slower than the Lexus IS350 which does 0-60 in 5.3!!

Actually you are wrong. The slow pokes @ Edmunds needed 5.6 seconds to get the IS 350 to 60 miles per hour while it has been clocked as fast as 5.1 seconds to 60. So get it through your dense little head that Edmunds ALWAYS gets slow numbers [they are the worst with all wheel drive sport cars) for example your favorite IS 350 posted much slower times at the Edmunds web site compared to proper magazines, .6 seconds to be exact. Audi lists the S6 only .2 tenths slower than the S8 that has been clocked at 4.7 seconds 0-60 with 4.9 as the slowerst time. This would putu the S6 in 4.9-5.1 seconds range with people that actually know how to drive.

it really turns out that audi fans are less intelligent than BMW/MB fans. just read this crap.. s6 is a piece of doo doo as is the a4, a6 and any variant. the rs4 is a limited release car that is subsidized by audi. the rs6 will be aheavy pos as well. no wonder they dont do well in any performance tests. keep kidding yourselves... we just alugh at you guys at stoplights and snicker.!!

Hmm... your stoplight comment reminds me of something earlier this summer...

Some fool in a 330i came up next to me while I was in the S4, obviously not knowing what he was in for. He raced his engine a bit, and I didn't bother, because it would scare the kid. And we took off! You should've seen the disappointment on his face. I was so far ahead of him that it was a little sad. He just stopped trying. 3 Series drivers never learn.

And I haven't just beaten 330i's, either. There's plenty of M3 drivers out there who don't know how to keep up with me at all. It's a shame, because it gives BMW such a horrible image.

What's the pride of smoking a $12,000 cheaper, I-6, 1.2 liter smaller, RWD car? It's typical RWD will wheelspin at the start and that's why AUDI is good at start, but not much else.

Find an 14,000 cheaper AWD INFINITI G35x and you'll be smoked. How about that?

It's not THAT in particular that I'm prideful about- I just love disappointing 3 Series drivers who think their cars are fast. They have great handling, but that doesn't mean they're fast!

And, like I said, I've smoked many M3s, too. That's something to be prideful about. M3 drivers give BMW such a yuppy image.

I am all the way down at the bottom of this posting and there are still some of you that read an article and then get your feathers all ruffled.

At least a handful of you should know that Edmund's is not the best place for time comparison and high performance numbers. Remember for the next time.

All of you are getting so overworked over 0-60 time and getting back into your Audi isn't superior to BMW and on and on, and then we have the "well when the RS6 comes out you all better watch it because it's going to blow the doors off of hell."

Really....people please. Stop assuming things like that. It isn't out and you have no idea what the performance capabilities will be. And you BMW people get pulled into these arguments with Audi'ns and then complain about it!

To end...a few pointers...

1. It's Edmund's people, really
2. Stop getting so worked up over 0-60 times
3. Stop assuming, you all make yourself look stupid
4. It's Edmund's people.....

Geesh!

AmazingBimmer, you mean the Audi R8 will whip up any BMW on the Nurburgring and will keep with the M5 and M6 until you each speeds that will get you thrown in jail.

The R10 on the other hand, will take your M5 and M6 in the straights and smack them in the twisties as well.

It will be the R8 driver that laughs and snickers at the M5 and M6 driver as he blasts them at the track and gets a lot more stares in doing so.

It will be the R10 driver that makes mince meat of the M5 and M6 in the straights and gives the BMWs the same treatment at the track.

I read the R8 articles in CAR and EVO magazines last night, both of which I bought at Borders books. This car is un-fu¢king-believable. Unbelievably gorgeous, unbelievably fast (0-125 in 14.7 seconds, if I remember correctly), unbelievably good to drive, unbelievable to own, and it's most notably an unbelievable bargain. EVO says that it's "the biggest threat to the 911's dominance we've seen," and they think that it will cost only about £4K more than a 911 C4S, base. And you know how lousily equipped Porsches are. A loaded R8 would most definietly cost less than a loaded C4S, ceramic brakes, R-Tronic and all.

Germannut you are ridiculous. I feel that commenting on something you post is pointless. You have no Logic or rational reasoning behind your outlandish claims. When I read some of your comments, your maturity level really shows....and its not something to be proud of.

One thing that nobody can argue is that the R8 puts to rest anyone's doubts about Audi's sports car capabilities or vanilla design philosophy.

Yes, it's so damn beautiful. I have to get my hands on one, some day.

CS44444, I feel that Audi needs its rightful place in the sun. If the BMW fan-boys are not going to accept that fact, I will simply make them accept the fact and Audi will do the same by unleashing cars such as the R8 with potent V8 and blistering V10 engines to kiss the BMW M5 and M6 goodbye on the straights and at the Nurburgring.

Stop with the R8 already.. RS4 can go round nurburgring a million times faster with me at the wheel compared to M5 with AmazingBimmer, trying to use a clutch (which he cant, cuz hes never driven a car before)

R8 does not have a BMW counterpart so stop bringing it up. U make it look like as if that was the only Audi.

chewy.. why do you lie?. the old rs6 had 450.. fast in a straight line.. but lousy as a sports sedan.. oh i forgot .. it was fwd.. with 'quattro'. .hahahhah. ask any purist.. th eold m5 was 10 times more desirbale and cool than the rs6 (which they produced for 1-2 years.). the mb was even better.. torquey...

seriously man u know nothing about cars. U have never even sat in a moving RS6 and ur talking BS. Yes M5 is cooler than the RS6, simply because of the name (in the same way dogshit with BMW badge in it is cooler than dogshit with Audi badge in it)

U have no idea what a purist is. Do u even know what u said?? Purist and sports sedans dont go together.

RS6 cornered way better than the CURRENT M5!!! What u read is BS, cuz i test drive cars for a living and i couldnt get the RS to understeer. But u would know better of course, since corners are a well known thing in the US..NOT!!

Please go spread ur BS somewhere else... in Germany preferably... cuz u know all about their cars (BMW; MB; AUDI)

It had a 480 hp Europe only RS6 plus version.

"th eold m5 was 10 times more desirbale and cool than the rs6 (which they produced for 1-2 years.). the mb was even better.. torquey..."

Well, the entire REASON the RS6 was a heck of a lot cooler than the M5 wasn't because it was faster, but because it was so limited-run. People had to get them because they had a time limit. It's also one reason (among many) why the RS4 is so much better than the M3. Exclusivity is a key factor when buying a performance car. The M5 is awesome, but I think RS cars have a cooler image because they're so rare.

Yes, exactly, MDalle. The old RS6 was fast but insane. Too powerful for its own good- and this makes me laugh. It had a puny five-speed Tiptronic transmission! Ha!

But, like you said, if the RS6 is anything like the RS4, it will take the performance sedan segment by storm. Now, if they would EVER COME OUT WITH IT! They are SO SLOW over at quattro GmbH!

I guess it's worth the wait, right?...

The test was dumb because the cars are not comparable. I can test a BMW 525 vs. an S550 and A8 4.2 and then say. dhuuuh!.. the BMW525 was underpowered. Never thought Edmunds had real car guys anyway. They're great for comparing specs, equipment prices, and stuff, but looks like they don't read or perhaps don't really understand what they publish. For the ignorant the RS model should be compared to the M and AMG models