Is this the REAL reason people choose a Lexus LS?

I think that viewpoint may be common and valid to some extent, but does not apply to every LS owner.

First of all, I'd owned an Audi A4, BMW 3 and 5 series, MB C & E, also a Lexus RX. Currently, I've a Lexus GS. Frankly speaking, I prefer Bimmer simply it has the best sport/luxury balance. However, I've too many horrible experiences with the Germans - anyone has gone thru the painful repairs would agree.

At the end of the day, Lexus is indeed more understated / unknown than the 3 German brands - Depends on which part of the world you live in. It's cool to have different preference / opinion, or else we all be driving the same car!

I worked for Lexus in the service dept for 5 years. In that time I was offered many jobs at BMW and Mercedes and turned them down. I also drive a 1998 GS400, its reliable. Thats why I drive a Lexus and worked for Lexus.

Gordon
President/CEO
www.mygride.com

The reason to buy the Lexus LS 460 is reliability.

And, when everyone catches up Lexus will lose sales.

If they haven't been able to catch up to Lexus in the past 17 years, one has to wonder when the finally will.

Wrong answer, answer.

The German cars will catch up, it's a goal for them to make more reliable cars than Lexus.

Peole drive Audis for the same reasons. But they get performance as well.

people

for the SAME reason?

so, having a truck-sized grill is NOT "in your face!??"

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the BMW.

it's the only reason people buy them in the UK. simply because it isn't a BMW/Audi/M-B.

Toyota's reliability plus luxury features is good enough for most people.

The reason why Lexus sells is because of PRICE. There is no other reason.
99% of Americans are value driven, which explains why Lexus is only successful in the US.

STOP YOUR RELIABILITY BS. If the LS had a base price of $90k would you buy it? Yeah right.

Lexus is for people that can't afford German.

So you mean Lexus is for "tightwads"?

Don't forget demographics clearly point to Lexus as being more of an AARP vehicle than the other competing brands. That age group will be more conservative with their declining incomes in their "golden years".

Yes people will buy the LS, the new LS460L is $85k and they're on the road.

Plano, this sounds very anecdoctal. I would love to see those demographic breakdowns. I do recall reading somewhere that the last gen IS had a very low age (30-31), and I have seen Lexus (as a brand) in the low 50's, but I have not seen direct comparisons among brands or models.

From Forbes Auto, 11/15/06:

"Lexus owners have traditionally been older than the industry average, and by some reports the figure is creeping upward. In 1995, the median age of a Lexus driver was 49.8; by 2005, it rose to 53.6, according to CNW Marketing Research."

What's your point?
$85k is still lower than the S base price. A similarly equipped S will cost you $100K+
Keep the excuses coming buddy.
There will always be exceptions, but the majority of Lexus owners buy for value.

^^^
Someone like Bill Gates drives a Lexus. Here's a guy who's got all the money in the world and can buy your mother, prefers a Lexus.

Then there are idiots like you who can't afford a donkey but would settle for the next best thing - a BMW or a Mercedes.

You should learn how to read.

"There will always be exceptions, but the majority of Lexus owners buy for value."

I guess the point is that Lexus maybe considered by many as a Japanese Buick. Kinda like my grandama's car.

1970toyotaMarc-

i actually found the link PlanoA4 was referring to:

Cadillac average age is 59
Mercedes Benz is 52
Lexus is 54
BMW is 47

It was in an article he had 001 break:
http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent001/Rebirth-of-Cadillac.pdf

The date of the study was January 2006

Did you also read the article that said Lexus owners are less educated and earn less money than the competition?

Lexus owners = fools of marketing.

thank you, 009. A 2 year difference between Lexus and MBZ doesnt strike me as a car for AARP, as Plano suggested. Clearly BMW skes younger, as anyone who has seen a driver of a 3 series can tell. (oops, I know that's anecdotal, but it's damn true) My point is that Lexus is not just for a bunch of poor, uneducated geriatrics as some would have us believe.

I guess that depends if you are the type that tends to flash your income or one that fly a bit under the radar. Or what if prefer a nameplate vs performance.

I suspect that the true appeal of the Lexus is quality and dependability. The typical Lexus monger on this site is more concerned about seat warmers that function 5 years down the road than slalom speeds.

LOL!

look at just WHOSE electronic doodads tend to go KAPUT within just 2 -5 years. vs. whose remain reliable for 8 years and more.

look at the REASON why, despite it's HIGH ratings in their road tests, CR gives most MB models a "Not Recommended."

and yes, most buyers of luxury cars (excluding 'entry level' 3-ers and boy racers) really are not impressed much by slalom speeds.

how many BIG luxo barges do you see being flung around corners?

Most any AMG Merc can be flugng around the corners with ease...

were you referring to MDalle? if so, you may be right.

People choose Lexus because it's the "relax, we've thought of everything" company

Or we copied everybody

what a typical reponse, I'd even go as far and say that it was a "copied" from many other people.

Plano,

You can only use that mindset if you are wearing the first pair of pants ever made, the first shirt ever worn, and talk on the first cell phone ever produced.

Things evolve and are duplicated over time. Mercedes created the first car, but has every car company since that time simply "copied", or has the concept morphed over time through the contributions of others.

I've said it before, but here it goes again. Mercedes copied the way they name their cars from Lexus in the early 90's. No company operates in a vacuum.

Actually it is part of their core philosophy:

Principle 8. Use only reliable, thoroughly tested technology that serves your people and processes.

Translated, we copy and not innovate.

if you are quoting from the toyota philosophy, it means tested and PROVEN for reliability, by their OWN ENGINEERS.

yes, some innovations may have been developed elsewhere. but toyota/lexus will NOT use them without also bringing them UP TO their OWN high standards of reliability. which are the highest in the industry.

they also come up with their OWN new ideas.

One of the reasons I love Lexus is because I dont want to drive a BMW (exept for the M3) AUDI & Mercedes they are too in your face and besides ive owned all of them before S3, 320D(Which spent most of its life @ the dealership BC of poor quality)

Funny that is the same reason we got rid of the Lexus too many of them out there and it was in the shop too much.

PlanoA4, loool now where did you get that from a Lexus is in the shop too much? I think you were confused by a MB/BMW/Audi my friend.

Plano,

Please tell us all about that bad accident you had. You know, the one that caused your severe brain damage.

Thanks!

It was front rotor issues. 2 sets in 24K. None covered by warranty and a 3rd set was coming soon.

The replacement vehicle an Audi ran on the original rotors for 80K before needing to have them turned the first time, actually the car still is on the original rotors. Simply put the brakes were junk on the LS. The only other car in the stable that suffered from that, was a lowly Nissan.

Whoah MDalle!

These are not personal attacks but mere humourous statements in the midst of non-sensical rants.

Clearly Plano's posts cannot all be taken seriously as well.

I currently own an ML500 and a Lexus IS250 and I get more remarks and compliments with the Lex even from my peers who drive German cars in the same class as mine because it stands out from the crowd.

Plano, dont know about your last statement, but anyway! I do not live in the US where they are more common. Back here Lexus is for the more discreet kind of person who is tired of the German status quo.

They are taxi cabs in my area. Basically there are so many that it is possible for you to have a carbon copy of yours three houses down, and then another four houses away.

are you talking about the MB taxicabs that are ubiquitous in europe?

must be. i have NEVER seen a lexus taxi.

"As a business executive, I won't drive a BMW 7-Series or a Mercedes-Benz S-Class, not because of their inferior quality but BECAUSE of their personas-brash, arrogant and in-your-face. These are characteristics I don't portray in my life and don't want in my car. For my vehicle, I like the understated yet classy presentation of the beautiful new Lexus." Ryan Kidd, Seattle, Washington.
===================================

How old is this guy?

My 27 year old son could write more sophisticated English than this guy (when he was 15 years old).

Also in his sentence, a clear bash against the European competition. Sounds to me like an Autospies Lexus fanboy wrote this in desperation after reading the Car and Driver review...

If your twenty-seven year old couldn't, I'd be surprised. My 24-year old daughter sure can!

the same in london. go to the city, and what do you see? endless 7 series, s class, jag xj and A8. no lexus.
but the thing is with lexus, it has no attention grabber.
ask ordinary people name a mercedes, they'll say s class, sl, something like that. bmw, they'll say 3 series. audi, TT. but lexus, they'll say ummmm....they just won't know any. no brand image here. we know they're suppposed to be with audi, bmw etc, but we can't quite see why.

there are REAL reasons for getting a Mac other than "just to be different." Macs are superior for graphics.

likewise, there are REAL reasons for getting an LS rather than overrated teutonic status symbols. too many to list.

"we know they're suppposed to be with audi, bmw etc, but we can't quite see why."

EXACTLY! WHY?!?!?! WHAT MAKES THEM SO DAMN SPECIAL?!?

yeah! agent 001 is back to breathe some life into Autospies it has been a bit boring since you went on your adventure to Beijing, anyway welcome back. Please bring back the cool posts! no offence to the other agents, but you are the master.

Thanks for the nice compliment...I'm back baby! Like a Phoenix rising!!!! ;)

001

No, this is not the reason. The real reason is very simple: Lexus' ars/SUVs are just better (better engineering, thus better reliability, and better services.)

I choose the Lexus hands down over Mercedes/BMW/Audi. It is a better quality vehicle over the German cars. It is also a much more reliable vehicle. I am too busy to worry about breakdowns, especially with a $50K+ vehicle and I don't have an overwhelming need to show others how successful I am. I like the understated elegance of the Lexus.

I'm pretty sure if your Lexus was $15k-$20k more you would be more than happy to make one or two extra trips to the dealer to fix a burnt light bulb or excessive brake dust.

whaaa?

i'd be most UNhappy having to visit a dealer for such picayune matters. i'd be EVEN more unhappy if i had paid $65 - $80k for the car.

and i'd be downright HOPPING MAD if it was an arrogant, lousy service dealership on top of all this.

is it any wonder there are so many MB and BMW trade-ins at lexus dealerships?

I agree. S-class and 7er say look at me I'm the BOSS and you're noone. They are too frapant and arogant, they are for people wih much money and no style.
NEW LS says somethingelse. That's the most beautiful limo I've ever seen, even more beautiful than Quattroporte. This limo means RESPECT POSITIONS STYLE

This is what I was referring to in the "What is the best car" article when i said its not NOUVEAU RICHE, alongside with all the other benefits of course.

The reason people stick heads out of the window and yell, "I'm driving a B-M-W!" is because they're proud of their car and anyone driving a Lexus knows they could have saved money by buying an Avalon.

CR has NO distinctions between "Recommended" and highly recommended.

in any case, BOTH lexus and TOYOTA have a high proportion of "CR Recommended" vehicles over their whole lineups.

MB, on the other hand, seems to have the highest proportion of "Not Recommended." are you even literate? if so, you must've been looking at a CR from a different planet.

Wow, Plano is back.

Back from my hiatus and stirring the pot....

I would choose a Lexus over a BMW or Mercedes any day. Maybe it's because I really don't give a rat's ass about their perceived "status" these technologically inferior vehicles from BMW/MB seem to get you schmucks excited about.

If I were to spend a large chunk of cash, I'd get the BEST vehicle out there. Bar none. And right now folks, the best vehicle out there is a Lexus. That's why Mr. Gates drives it.

Let's leave the expensive Mercs to pimps and schmuck like you.

You keep mentioning Bill Gates. OK, so he has one Lexus in his garage, so what?
You make it sound like it's his only car.

Does Mr Leno have a Lexus? How about the Sultan of Brunei? Those guys are real car enthusiast and wouldn't be caught dead driving a Toyota I mean Lexus.

"BEST vehicle out there. Bar none." Could you please explain why the best car bar none has handling and braking of a 3 ton truck?

^^^
You know, I really believe you when you said he keeps his Lexus in his garage. After all, you're his garage-cleaner so you should know.

Funny how you compare Leno to Gates. BTW, did you know Leno also has a Mazda in his stable? Does this mean it is better than a Lexus?

I like mentioning Gates because he's an identifiable figure although I'm willing to bet there'd be tons of other CEOs (and the like) driving Lexi out there.

Besides the point I'm really trying to make is that there are people out there (a lot in fact) that put a lot of importance on the quality and workmanship of the vehicles themselves - regardless of price, regardless of whether they can afford something that's priced 20x more. These people demand the best. It just so happens that the closest brand to perfection right now is (arguably) Lexus.

Did you see the comment about Ford's new CEO Mullaly and his desire to make Ford's premiere brands (Volvo, Land Rover, Aston Martin, etc.) more in line with the quality of the Lexus he currently drives? The former CEO in the airline industry drives a Lexus? I imagine it is because he and Bill Gates don't know anything about efficient, user-friendly technology. The jobs of those who drive a car are completely irrelevant. I think numbers don't lie when it comes to car superiority wars. If a car is more expensive, has a lower quality reputation, and has fewer technological gizmos, please let me know if you plan to buy it, even if its officially Lexus. I will have to buy stock in that company so I can join them in making money off of all of the suckers who are making the same decision on old-school status alone!

Singapore's President drives a Lexus.
Singapore is one of the richest nation in the world with "zero" national debt. I've traveled to the Singapore in 1999 and believe me when I state that in time..Singapore will be the future mecca of the Lexus b/c most all cars you'll see there are Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans..much like Middle east also.

I've been to Singapore and I remember the signs that said "Do Not Walk On The Grass" and if you were caught chewing gum they would beat your butt with a cane.

Singapore can also say thank you America for liberating us from the Japanese during WWII.

Prince William actually just upgraded, apparently... to an A8!

"Singapore can also say thank you America for liberating us from the Japanese during WWII."

actually, the Brits liberated singapore. we fought in the so. pacific west to the philippines. the brits fought in s.e. asia eastward.

and when the japanese first took malaysia and singapore, they did it with 1/3 the no. of brits defending. where normal military doctrine says invaders should have 3x the no. of defenders (due to normally higher casualty rates).

this lopsided feat by the japanese (the GREATEST embarassment to british arms in history), led the japanese to believe 1 japanese soldier = 10 british empire troops.

(of course, this formula failed miserably against AMERICAN leathernecks and gis.)

This is the real reason that Lexus sales better:Lexus knows how to market their products,offers a wide range of technologies,excellent luxury,and people want to be able to drive their cars,and not spend their whole day at the dealership repairing their german luxury vehicle!

We're back to this argument again huh?

Last time I figured out why some of you think Lexus isn't as good as the German trio and that reason was that you all simply have a bias against anything than your favorite brand.

And, you have a bias against anything other than YOUR favorite brand, too! Lexus fans aren't exempt from this! You act like you're above us! You're most definitely not!

If someone who is a fan of the big III Germans but still want to remain understated then they would chose the 7series or even better the A8. I don't know if they would pick the LS as a first choice before looking at the A8 first for an understated luxury saloon. Don't get me wrong Lexus is reliable and quality way above satisfactory.

Maybe they should buy a Maserati Quattroporte or a Jaguar XJ if they don't want to be seen as arrogant?

That way, they will be percieved as classy with fine taste, rather than clinical and nerdy if they purchase a Lexus.

They'll also get glorious V8 engine notes!

I am not arrogant event though i drive a BMW, it is your gyus that say so. Jalousi perhanps? I bought my BMW because that is the car i like. AUDI no, Lexus no because i dont like it. Does that make me arrogant? NO.

@Plano..Do you think everyone on this post is as ignorant as you are? A rotor that goes on for 80K miles before being turned. Probably you do not know what a rotor is...To come to your level it is the thing that the brake pads latch on to bring the car to a stop..By the way do you own a bike let alone a car??

Before you post please try at least to know what you are talking about.

If you are to critize THE LEXUS please do so constructively. Have you ever in your like sat in a LEXUS let alone drive one????? I dont think so. Even the so called Europeans voted it the safest car in the world..Check Autospies a couple a weeks back. Again lets get back to the point why LEXUS owners prefer a LEXUS rather tha a bmw/merc/audi...because it is not fussy and not in your face..I can assure you that they could easily afford a bentley or a rolls but prefer a LEXUS because you get all the creature confort without the fuss or drawing attention to yourself.

Probably this guy is just a teenager who knows nothing about cars and just wants to while away his time instead of doing his homework..

Advise concentrate on your school work so that when you are all "growed" you could afford your european lux car of your dream..

when you talk, make sure it is right.
firstly, do not insult PlanoA4, perhaps the cornerstone of all autospies civilisation.
secondly, ENCAP never voted a Lexus the safest car in the world. the IS is safest in its class, sure.
thirdly, you state that lexus drivers can afford bentleys or rolls-royces. that is garbage. Lexus always have lower prices than the equivalent Mercedes.
fourthly, you say that "people prefer Lexus". some people do yes. But not in europe. You buy a lexus for reasons of the head, not the heart. you buy it as a practical purchase, not because you love it.
fifthly, a lot of people care about image, and Lexus lacks any in europe. Lexus is 2nd tier along with volvo.
sixthly, again, never insult planoa4. i think he is the single biggest poster of articles on autospies, and should be respected.

TheDonII,

I am quite aware of what a rotor is..

Maybe you need to be educated:. “Turning” the rotor is the common term for "truing" or removing small amounts of surface on the rotor to ensure proper bedding of the brake pad to the rotor surface.

If the rotor is too thin by manufacture, or warped (again possibly by substandard design in the first place) it can not be “turned” or “trued” and must be replaced.

Most German cars by nature will have thicker rotors due to the speeds on the autobahn, and the fact that the typical driving standard over there is more aggressive. These rotors are basically engineered to a higher standard, and typically can be turned inexpensively rather than be replace at brake service intervals. The result is a less costly brake job.

The brakes jobs on the Lexus and the Nissan, each cost far more than the equivalent service on the Audi due to the lack of replacement parts needed for the Audi. Better design equates to lower cost in ownership. Purchase price is only one aspect of the ownership experience.

If you need proof, just Google warped rotors on Lexus and Nissan and see the countless complaints and several class action suits for these issues. Then do the same for say VW or Audi. You will see there is a marked difference in the favor of the German cars.

Plano may be autospies.com's biggest poster, but if he posts is largely ignorant, why should he be respected more than anyone else?

@ Plano I mean "life" not like..Typo

I think even the Quattroporte will be a little too much. It's not understated IMO. It's unique, eye catching, and has a howl like no other sedan and because of that it can't be an understated saloon. The S65 is getting pretty close to the quattroporte in eye catching, unique, and has a rumble from its engine. And if it's anywhere near an s-class then it's not understated. The Audi A8 is a little better but even then their not exactly NOT EYE CATCHING. The new LS however is far more conservative and 'normal' looking. It is not flashy but you can tell it's not a cheap car either.

"It is not flashy but you can tell it's not a cheap car either."

the very ESSENCE of understated elegance.

and if it is possible to quantify understated elegance, the LS has EVEN MORE of it than rolls-royce!

so there, euro fanboys. TAKE your flash. self-confident, psychologically SECURE folks don't NEED it.

to answer the thread question:

it is ONE reason people buy lexuses. one amongst a WHOLE SLEW of other good reasons.

some years ago, a friend made this comment: "What a cute little car."

i had to tell her, the cute "little" car was a Rolls-Royce!

(we were looking at an ad. and it was a 3/4 rear view, without the imposing grill visible)

have you ever thought that some people just don't like lexus, or any car? there doesn't have to be a reason, but some people jsut don't like them. and imgae does have a lot to do with a purchase of a car. tell me, would you buy a pink convertible chrysler crossfire? probably not. would you buy a black cadillac escalade with 24 inch spinners, or a hummer in white with a giant pink stripe? no. thats because of image. we all care about image, otheriwse we'd wear boring clothes, live in plain houses, not wear make-up, not do our hair or anything like that. image is a huge part of human life, and some people feel that lexus doesn't represent the image that they want to put across. you say bmw drivers are arrogant, but put it another way, and it is someone who wishes to quantify their success, and to show their pride in their earnings.
in car design, cars have faces. the human brain always finds the face in everything. thats why "evil" cars are made, to show a confident personality. "cute" cars are made, to show fun. "discreet" cars are made, to show content and a relaxed demanour. "agressive" cars are to show power, thrills, and danger. we even have a face of "haughty" or "ostentatious" audis tend to fit in "discreet", "evil" and "agressive". bmws in agressive and evil, mercedes in agressive, discreet and ostentatious. lexus in discreet. lexus' lack of diversity in its design limits its image to a norrow spectrum of buyers, therefore fewer people will like it or feel it represents them. it is chang however, to a more ostentatious and agressive mood, but while the discreet/cute SC is out, that is not good for what should be its main buyers; older emn who wish to show their virility, which is what the XK and SL do so well. the LS fits its design well, but should contain more agression. the RX has an open, wide eyed face, so it borders on cute. way to make a car seem in different moods? change the head lamps. the BMW 7 series went from agressive to discreet in a facelift, anf the old model was evil. cute/agressive is a difficult combo, but the MINI managed to pull it off, and that is a world wide success, it appeals to men and women.

what i'm tryng to say is there's nothing wrong with lexus' cars, just their image. and while you might be happy with the image, others may not, and will therefore take this feeling as "I don't like Lexus, therefore their cars are bad". feelings play an awful lot in our decisions, so imagine if you felt the worng feeling about a car. you wouldn't buy it. if you have difficulty understanding, think of an extreme i.e. an extremely girly car (in pink) or an extremely masculine car (in black). (trouble is, extremely masculine turns into he's making up for something)
also, imagine your car in a different colour, and how you'd feel about it.

Lexus has many strong points, but we all have to remember there is no car for everyone. They are as individual as we are.

I prefer German over Japanese, but other have strong vindications to the opposite. No one is wrong.

We just need to understand that we are all different.

will, my point was that apexalex was basically saying the only reason to buy german cars is because we're insecure, unconfident people, which just isn't true. while the article refers to a reason for buying a lexus, there are also many reason for owning a german car, or any other car for that matter.

I'm not saying this as a biased car enthusiast; I'm saying this as a concerned non-psychiatrist.

I sense jealousy in that post, ApexAlex. Don't flame me. Let me go on.

EVERYONE wants the glamour that these cars bring. Whoever doesn't want a car that expresses their personality is either depressed or just doesn't care about cars. I feel like you really DO want the ostentation of a Rolls-Royce, the pretentious style of a BMW, the flashy luxury of a Mercedes. I think some people are jealous that Lexus doesn't stir the same desire. I don't desire a Lexus. I desire a Porsche. I desire an Audi. I desire a BMW. I desire a Mercedes-Benz. I desire a car that performs, a car that simply yells out my name. It's not much fun to have a Lexus.

In addition, I don't think the Lexus fans actually desire a Lexus. I think they want something more, unless they have a top-of-the-line LX470 or something. I think they compromised. Most of the Lexus fans here probably had a German car before and loved the way it felt, but had to compromise with a Lexus because it had "reliability". I certainly don't wish my cars had better reliability- they're already angels. If anything, more performance would be nice (ahem RS4 Cabriolet). But reliability isn't something you desire. It's something you need to live a less dramatic life; saving a few days a year at the dealer.

Life isn't about saving time. It's about living the moment. I'd rather be happy in the long run- with a German car -than compromise with a Lexus.

Can't we all just agree the Mercedes S550 is twice
the car that the Lexus LS 460 is?

It's true.

rupert: "in car design, cars have faces. the human brain always finds the face in everything."


i will grant you that. but just as with humans, there is FAR more to the whole than just the face. those who make judgements based ONLY on faces tend to be very shallow. and immature.

or, less politely, simply badge whores.

further, what of those who are OVER fussy about their faces, plastering makeup on? like the wives of TV preachers, f'rinstance. think on THAT awhile.

s4cabrio: "I sense jealousy in that post, ApexAlex. Don't flame me. Let me go on.

"EVERYONE wants the glamour that these cars bring. Whoever doesn't want a car that expresses their personality is either depressed or just doesn't care about cars. I feel like you really DO want the ostentation of a Rolls-Royce, the pretentious style of a BMW, the flashy luxury of a Mercedes. I think some people are jealous that Lexus doesn't stir the same desire..."



please... do NOT try to be an armchair shrink. you are so obviously incompetent at it.

NO lexus owner is jealous that lexus doesn't "stir the desires" you cite. if any did, they would NOT have bought a lexus! it is THAT SIMPLE. did you not even read the letter that spurred this thread?

i have absolutely NO desire for the ostentation of a rolls. IF forced to make a purchase, i would pick the more restrained Bentley over it. an older architect friend once got sorta PISSED at me when i said there were a 1/2 dozen cars i'd pick over a cadillac.

if i REALLY wanted to, i COULD buy a lexus. with cash, in full. you know what i actually drive? an '03 corolla! ha ha! yes, isn't THAT funny!?

AND, --reading this, Rupert?--the profile and FACE of this car very much does suggest a mini-lexus. (not true of later corollas, with shift in logo placement.) (that was not, however, the initial reason for this choice.)

and don't say i am NOT an auto enthusiast. i'm one of those who has A BALL "making a slow car go fast, rather than having to keep a fast car reined in all the time."

if i NEEDED a larger car, i'd get a V6 camry or an avalon. I LOVE Q-ships! innocent looking externally, able to surprise and blow away others WHEN i feel so inclined. and with cunning and skill, i rarely NEED extra power to do so. as it is, i rarely even call on the hot cam on my VVTi corolla!



"I desire a Porsche..."

well, i have driven a porsche. ok if you live where you can EXPLOIT its power and handling. where i had it (honolulu), it was just about USELESS. too low to see around traffic. which was too dense and slow to get ANY enjoyment out of a car like that anyway.

i don't really begrudge ANYONE their choice of car. but in my view, a SMART person chooses what SUITS them in their environment. those who choose ONLY to IMPRESS others tend to be insecure. (and if they NEED these psychological crutches, that's ok too. they just need to NOT ASSUME that makes them better than others.)

I don't like to live on the conservative side of life...I get more enjoyment out of life doing thing's that would be considered out there.

Another way to phrase that would be...I don't drive a Lexus, I drive a Bimmer!

Whenever I see people driving their LS 430's it looks they're driving a barge and I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut the same will happen with the LS 460.

IMHO.

Wow. You know what? I'm not even going to step in here.

This is a $hit hole. BAD post to try and start, AUDIMAN!

It's like stepping into a war zone.

that could be quite fun, a water balloon war or something. bmw v audi v lexus. or german v japan. or america v rest of world (can't think who'd win that one, since there are about 2 american car fans)

LOL! No, it would just be Germany vs. Japan.

But, of course, out of the Lexus fans' eyes, it's "Japan vs. Everyone Else"!

Or, Lexus vs. Everyone Else. Within Everyone Else, there would be two sub-wars: BMW vs. Audi and BMW vs. Mercedes.

@ Rupert.. you are so British..You remind me of my Uncle who just believed that British system of Snubbry..He was as poor as a Church Mouse but would wear a suit and a tie at home and "eat tea" under the hot burning sun and would drive a Rover with a Honda Engine...by the way now owned by the Chinese.

Get over it... that system is going to the dogs. This is the same reason why the Bently is nothing but a VW Phaeton..the Rolls is now taken over by BMW. Instead of spending on research and development, they were busy thinking about the Snub appeal on their products

for some, it's ALL about style over substance.

"All the world is a stage..."

well you're right about the british thing.
a bentley is not "nothing but a vw phaeton" in the same way the rolls royce is nont just a bmw or a maybach is an expensive mercedes (well the maybach kind of is). the platform a car is based off has nothing to do with the overall "fell" of a car.
and the thing is, snob appeal (with an O not a U) sells cars.

yes. to people with more MONEY than brains. and sometimes than TASTE too.

re: money vs. brains. see any of "The Millionaire Next Door" books, and see what THEY tend to drive.

they all drive bmws, standardly.

actually, if you bother to READ the book, the most popular "car" amongst american millionaires is the ford f-150 TRUCK. then follows, in no particular order, toyotas, hondas, mercedes. a few lincolns and cadillacs.

bmw cars are NOT that popular. they are seen as too "nouveau riche."

the authors go on to mention that MOST owners of the german prestige brands are NOT that rich. most are JUST middle-class, TRYING TO IMPRESS the neighbors. and usually GOING INTO DEBT to do so.

the truly rich need impress NO ONE, and are comfortable with their fords and toyotas.

Another thread turned to shit. I love Autospies and the maturity on these boards.

I'm being sarcastic in case you KIDS are too stupid to figure that out...

are you referring to the KIDS who go deep into debt mainly to IMPRESS the neighbors?

Can't we all just agree the Mercedes S550 is twice the car that the Lexus LS 460 is?

It's true.

I was just now watching the Lexus LS 460 video and doesn't the TV that hangs from the roof block the view of the rear view mirror?

in any case, how many people just about NEVER USE their rear mirrors anyway!? ;)

especially when they're clogging the left lane and traffic is backed up behind them half a mile or more?

EL34, Have you ever owned either of the cars that you claim that one is better than the other? I very seriously doubt it and I believe I hear bias talking. I just bought a LS 460L and I can say, it is the finest car I have ever driven and yes, I have had German cars before.

Why would anyone buy an LS460 only to find that the front passenger seat does not offer a fully independent seat cushion length adjustment. This feature is cloned by Lexus from the Mercedes S-class but only for the driver's side. I'd be embarrassed to give my business to a company that short changes customers in such a sneaky way.
It is my opinion that Audi offers the best value today in performance as well as interior comfort and elegance. The A8, which is in the same price range as the S-class and LS460, has a rust-free aluminum body and comes with a reliable AWD system that really works under the worst winter road conditions. Audi uses a Torsen center differential while the Mercedes 4Matic is an overly complex design that, on the 2007 S-class, requires an intermediate shaft through the oil pan to deliver power to the front left axle shaft.

Why would anyone buy an LS460 only to find that the front passenger seat does not offer a fully independent seat cushion length adjustment. This feature is cloned by Lexus from the Mercedes S-class but only for the driver's side. I'd be embarrassed to give my business to a company that short changes customers in such a sneaky way.
It is my opinion that Audi offers the best value today in performance as well as interior comfort and elegance. The A8, which is in the same price range as the S-class and LS460, has a rust-free aluminum body and comes with a reliable AWD system that really works under the worst winter road conditions. Audi uses a Torsen center differential while the Mercedes 4Matic is an overly complex design that, on the 2007 S-class, requires an intermediate shaft through the oil pan to deliver power to the front left axle shaft.

not to mention, do any german cars, short of the Maybach, offer the ultra lux reclining seat in the back of the LS460L? ccomplete with ottoman and shiatsu massage fingers?

it does "borrow" space from the front passenger area, as it is assumed the car will often be chaffeur driven, with NO front passenger.

To all the daft ones who says so and so celebrity drives this car so it must be good should be banned from posting. Bil Gates drives a Lexus so therefore Lexus is better than German cars. What does Bill Gates or Steven Spielberg know about cars? Abosolutely nothing. The only argument Lexus-phites have going for them are: The car is cheaper, it's reliable and so and so celeb drives it..pretty weak points from purist point of view. Japanese cars are reliable but they lack two important traits: Personality and soul.

"Lexus-phites" ???

Outrageous. I think it's just a Lexus attempt to smear BMW & MBZ. To think that Lexus is even in the same class as BMW & MBZ is lie that the article tries to present as a fact.