SPY VIDEO: Lexus IS500 lapping around the Nurburgring

No wonder its been taking so long to get the car out. Needs more grip and a more enticing exhaust note..

sounds mean. theres quite abit of cars running on there, kinda of funny.

I know that the ring is punishing for production cars, but it looks like the IS500 is definately struggling.

It doesn't sound nearly as cool as an RS4, but those are nice rims (I know they're not production rims), and what appears to be an agressive bodykit.

Is this where style meets substance for Lexus?

No. Its when the engineering go back to the drawing board! Doesn't look like a car that can take on the M3 how much more the RS4. The corolla tyres squealing all over the place like a little piglet or was the driver transporting some farm animals? Here's what a real car should sound like.. enjoy...
http://www.audi.fr/actualite/teaserrs4/filmdef/film.htm

Audi fans...never give created to anything.

back to topic

is it AWD or RWD??

Credit, you mean?

I think it's kind of cool. But I'd like to see the specs first. There's so many new competitors coming out (M3, new S4/RS4/S5/RS5, C63 AMG, this) that I don't see what sets this car apart.

I'm sure it's RWD. Lexus doesn't usually do AWD on its sedans. If the IS350 had an AWD option, it would be a possibility, but it doesn't. Only the less-powerful IS250 does. It just wouldn't make sense, and it would look like too much of an RS4 ripoff.

Thanks, you the only audi fan that I respact.

S4 - They do have AWD as an option, it's the IS250 AWD. Saw a white one on the road last weekend. So it's possible that they could do an AWD option, for those that might want it.

I think it's going to be a great car.

Mark cant you read. S4 did say the 250 had AWD. He said the 350 didnt.

Might compete with the new 335...not the upcoming M3. Besides it can't even catch that minivan. :)

The Lexus/Toyota philosophy is mannered performance

-no manual
-aggressive electronic helpers
-cushiony seats
-ultra-quiet interior

Are they going to put out a 500hp car and then refine the life out of it? I don't see why they make this.

The IS 250 has a manual
VDIM traction can be turned off for 2007 models (which shows how Lexus listens to its customers, how's that I-Drive thing going, BMW?)
Seats in sporty models are plenty supportive, you obviously havent driven one.
ultra quiet? yes that is a good sign of luxury, but did you have no sound on that video? that was a throaty, aggressive V-8.

stop with the lies

The IS 250 has a manual. Well, that's a relief, if I want to drive a 200 horsepower entry-level econo-box.

VDIM can be turned off for '07? Wow. So the '06 IS that everyone was comparing to BMW... just a boast?

Make the excuses. Lexus is not a performance brand.

I am not a big lexus fan because of the drive. But I think this car may change my mind.

This IS did not even struggle during the turns. If I didn't know it was a lexus I would of thought it was a BMW.

Handling looks great!!!


MPower>AMG,RS

You stuff a big enough engine in a car, it's going to be fast. So what. Just wait until Lexus is finished turning it into a deprivation chamber. Then you can crow about how smooth of a drive it is. Stay in Utah!

notice he (subtly) ADMITS to being an au- (i)diot!. LOL! you wonder if he isn't just pulling everyone's leg with IDIOTIC posts.

if he IS serious, he needs help.

Ah, let's see. You start your post, ""Haha.. wow. you guys are worthless." Nice lead-in. You're nothing but a fanboy, so why should you read my post? I said, so what if it's fast. It's going to be neutered. We don't need the video to know that. It's what Lexus DOES to cars. When you change your name to UtahMan, then we'll talk.

Ok I will be nice. The IS is a very good looking car. This IS500 sounds fairly nice as well. But, I am just saying that it looked like it struggled on the ring. Here is the Audi RS4 mule taking the same ring. It looks much more comfortable.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/front_website/video.php?id=45

Anyone see a BMW in the clip at 1:52 into the clip? it look like a 5 serie behind the IS500. But I'm not sure, you have to try to pause during the 1:52 into the clip to see the car behind the IS500. But this is only the prototype of the IS500 being tested, without a doubt once it in the production form it will beat or rival the RS4, M3 and the up coming C63 AMG performance. It was pretty to fast when it went around the track.

Lexus

Yeah, that was a 5 Series.

Once the production come out and if..I says if it beat the RS4, M3 and C63 AMG, I know for sure the German fan will cry and bitch and complaint how it just a Toyota. Just like when the IS350 came out and smoke the 330i, A4 and C class from 0-60. And now BMW come out with 335i turbocharge with 300+ hp of their own to compete with IS350.

"Just like when the IS350 came out and smoke the 330i, A4 and C class from 0-60."

Don't you ever learn?

0-60 isn't what makes the car!

It's how it drives!

I haven't seen a comparison test in which the IS beats the 3 Series, because the 3 Series is still a better driver's car!

Chewy,

you have to remember this is the first time Lexus is trying to build a true rival to the M3, RS4 and C63 AMG. Give them awhile I guaranteed you won't disspointed when Lexus has it IS500 on the road.

Lexus

What we CAN see from this video is the emphasis on comfort regarding suspension tuning.

It pitches a bit under breaking and the body is a little less composed than I would have expected.

It will be very fast, but in keeping with Lexus tradition, it will not sacrifice ride comfort for roll-free handling and taut body control.

A stiff set up would alienate Lexus customers -and those who think the RS4 is too 'hard-core'.

-braking.

You guys talk a lot of unwarranted BS. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that car.

Have to wait and see, but the current Is350 lacks ANY soul. In this segment, if you want to compete with AMG and M cars you need soul. All the quality and refinement and numbers won't matter without it.
Lexus has failed miserably with attempts to compete with the high performance offerings from the Germans so far (although they do wonderfully well at grabbing the non-drivers in the luxury segment). Perhaps this will change that.

I don't understand what these ultra die-hard German cars fans mean by "soul". I think they are mostly regurgitating what the biased magazines say in most of their comparisons. Or maybe soul means they are willing to put up with faulty electronics and cheap looking interiors. I bet you most of these "critics" have never even owned a Lexus or BMW

cars dont have souls

You'd have to have a soul to know what one is.

Most probably it will come in both coupe and sedan form,with cabriolet following them.

Look like,it's a perfectly plotted plan.U see Lexus is not taking any chances here.As the IS500 Sedan will go against the RS4 and C63 AMG.The IS500 Coupe will compete against the M3.


JUGNU

it looks like it handles poorly around the ring...could be the driver, rather than the car I suppose, but corner entry and exit speeds are slow compared to videos of the RS4 (and I haven't seen any track videos of the E90 M3)and the car seems to lack traction.

BUT since I wouldn't be taking my IS500 to the Ring, that's irrelevant...it looks like it goes like a bat out of hell and who could beat the service?? haha

As if you can see that the car goes faster then the RS4.
Now you'r the one talking smack.

LOLOL..Sorry Team Audi but Will has a point.

Will, you've glossed over my assertion: Lexus will neuter this car before it's finished. Their version of performance is less aggressive than BMW, Porsche. Always has been.

You'll say, my version of performance is just what Lexus gives me, blah blah. But for a 500 hp car, your competitors are blazing fast machines with a dangerous edge. I don't see how Lexus can allow itself to make a car like that. If (when) it doesn't, then the "German" fans will be disappointed. I guess you'll still be happy though?

Yes, it needs to come out for sure.

On that note. Do you think it's possible for Lexus to satisfy its core audience and also conquest BMW and Porsche buyers? I think these two audiences are different. Lexus buyers are put off by edgy performance. We know Toyota is pretty conservative and aims for large numbers of buyers. That can hurt a car's edges. If they can do both, they'd truly be geniuses, and I'd hope for nothing less for this car.

i love audi and bmw and i would definitely give this car a chance when it comes out...i would cross shop all 3 cars (M3, Rs4, IS500).

"they are going to give the gearheads everything they want in terms of speed, horsepower, handling, etc. yet couple it with the positive attributes that Lexus already has..."

----------

That's just the Lexus attitude, isn't it? We're going to "cover off" on that performance and handling thing while making a car that everybody loves for luxury...

You don't know what you don't know.

It takes 1000 little decisions to equal 1 Porsche or performance BMW. It's not a matter of "covering off" on performance--performance is the goal from day 1.

Lexus does not have the dedication to performance to ever get this right. They just don't do this well. You can wait until it comes out and see for yourself.

Middle-of-the-road is why Toyota sells so many cars. It's not quality, Will. It's by offering the least-offensive iteration of German performance and styling. To you, 50/50 weight distribution, and years of tuning chassis and famed engines to, yes perfection, is something Toyota is going to put their minds to in a couple of years and be "just as good."

It's not heritage. It's know-how. Even if Toyota changed its stripes and became a hardcore performance company--which isn't going to happen either, it's not going to happen in a couple years.


Like Microsoft is going to become a wildly creative company and beat Apple at creativity. They, like Toyota, are the monolith that works on the margins.

You're going to come back with envy, jealousy, etc. It's not that. It's know-how.

Luxury is about materials and proper assembly. Performance is a whole other issue. This isn't the same as body panel fitting or road vibrations. It's a delicate balance of physics and feel. Much more difficult to "copy." To a Porsche engineer, impossible. (No one in the performance space today is sitting around waiting to be caught, like Mercedes was in the 1980's. Lexus can't even beat Mazda in performance right now, let alone BMW or Porsche.)

I have no doubt you will be satisfied with Lexus' output of performance cars. They have you as a market. You're smitten. But you don't want enough.

And as for Microsoft, ask all the millions of people using tablet PCs (flop), home media centers (flop), Zunes (flop), Vista (years behind), WinCE smartphones (flop)... LOL. Figures you'd be a Microsoft person too. You are so uninformed but so opinionated!

Feel is not magic feel, whatever that is, but a combination of weight distribution, chassis design, type of materials and years of engine tuning. It is a formula that each car company uses. Perhaps the Supra was a hit for some, but it's not a real performance street vehicle in the stature of a 911 or an M3, and not going to give Toyota a 50-60 year head-start.

So, I don't understand magic feel. But anyone who understands the intricacies of something that *involves* feel will accept that it is elusive to create.

About Lexus' past. Kaizen, Toyota's philosophy of continuous improvement, has helped Lexus to copy the best German luxury brands and create "luxury" cars. Performance cars do not factor into this equation. It is not about improving materials and process. It's, as I said, an ingredient mixture with artistry of balance and composition. You can run that IS500 around the track 1,000,000 times, but without the touch that these Germans have, you will not "improve."

Can Lexus gain that touch? I'm sure they can. But not in a couple of years of "putting their minds to it."

As for Mazda. They have gained a serious reputation as a performance brand (for the money). I say reputation, because fans, journalists and industry people are acknowledging this on their own. It's an earned reputation. Lexus has not yet earned this widespread acclaim for its performance efforts.

That Lexus can't even equal a budget brand's performance rep shows how far they have to go. Just because they charge $50,000 to $100,000 for a car doesn't mean they automatically compete with Porsche or BMW. In their own minds, perhaps.

I argue this point because Toyota is a middle-of-the-road company pretending to become something they're not. They're the Microsoft of cars.

This IS500 is a total vanity project, to say, we can run with the big boys. Toyota does not have the mettle to create a real performance car. They're way way way way too conservative. They are Toyota. They create by committee. You can say, wait for it. But when you know the company involved, you know what they're going to do. You're the only one on the planet who doesn't see what Toyota is.

When the article comes out, "IS500--fastest Lexus, not there yet," you'll claim Car and Driver bias and say, it's just as good as the Germans. So, why wait?

"I'm dying to know what would be the end result if people did what you are doing to Audi come their first RS4? Audi was (arguably still is0 a "middle-of-the-road" company, yet through hard work they have been able to give the world the new RS4 and R8. You want to know what the fundamental difference is? Audi was allowed to produce the RS4 because they are German. Lexus is not allowed to produce this IS-F because they are Japanese."

Will, there's a lot more to it then that, and you know it. Audi has had a lot of experience with performance cars, being linked to Porsche in its original RS2, having the quattro coupé, and of course, all of its racing wins. The RS4 and R8 were just showcasing all of its experience and technology. The new IS500 will be credible- but I don't see it as a clear leader, at least right now. They need some experience learning how to make a performance car, before they just decide to make one because everyone else is. They'll get it right in a few generations... and we'll see what happens.

BTW, it will be the IS-F not the IS 500

Why everyone jumps to conclusion ? ONLY TIME WILL TELL my friends !!!!

ah, of course it is. Now it makes sense, no wonder you were just bashing the "quality" of the new M3 interior based on a photo of a non-M3. No wonder based on a photo of a non-M3 you were able to descern that the "quality" of the interior is "less than a Toyota". No wonder, ideed.

Lexus fans are weird. You might as well get excited by an annual report.

How can you tell the corner entry and exite speeds are slower than the Rs4?...Oh! thats b/c you cant. Personaly i think it looks pretty fast, and you can tell its got a hole lot of grip b/c there is minimal tire sqeal when it is cornering. very impressive.

that post was in response to NArunners comment.

ok fanboy, i also said it looks like it goes like a bat out of hell (that means fast)...but you must have missed that.

As for the entry and exit speeds, that is my personal observation. Most people with half a brain can compare the velocity of two different objects. Obviously different tracks and different drivers yield different results, but to me the entry/exit speeds looked a little sluggish for a vehicle of that magnitude. you also need to turn up the volume on your speakers because the tires whine through every corner and the car doesn't drift at all (indicating sub par grip).

personally I believe that the RS4 will be better than the 4 door IS500 and the M3 will be better than the 2 door IS500. just my opinion, though...you're entitled to yours.

"...because the tires whine through every corner and the car doesn't drift at all (indicating sub par grip)."

speaking of physics, you obviously know far less than not only lexus, but the AVERAGE driver.

drifting WOULD indicate sub-par grip. so the car NOT drifting means it's STICKING like glue. and tire noise is irrelevant. ALL tires will squeal as they approach their limit of adhesion.

once the tires pass that limit and let go, you WOULD see drift. or slides. so obviously, the suspension is fully up to pushing the tires to their limits (and beyond?)

If Toyota can make the "Supra" rival or beat the German sportcars so can Lexus. I can't wait for the onslaughter of German sportcars when the Lexus release it LF-A 500+ hp, IS500 450+ hp, Toyota Supra 450+ hp, Acura NSX 500+ hp, Skyline GTR 500+ hp, Honda XGA, and the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution.

Go ahead and laugh now German fans but you won't be laughing for long when those super sportcars are lease. I can't wait to get my IS500 or the Supra and smoke an M3, RS4 or C63 AMG on the track or street. It won't be long before Lexus take over this division or least rival it.

Lexus for Life, ah...ha...ha...ha...ha....

man talk about SPECULATION, i haven't even heard official production confirmations for the Supra yet, let alone hp figures for the latter or the LF-A and NSX.

i agree with you, though...there is a bloodbath in the works here in the performance niche and it means more competition=more hp=more supply=lower prices and more reasons to argue on autospies!

correction, can't wait for the on slaughter of German sportcars when Japan realeases those sportcars mention above. :)

Lexus

Lexus, how did you get all those horsepower figures??
Are you a psychic?
Supra and NSX, where did you get information of the confirmation that they are releasing it?
Please do not provide us with any of your BS speculations plz!

Sign me up on the waiting list for this vehicle!!
It's the total package:Luxury,perforemance,technology,and reliability!
Don't jump the gun to talk bad about this Lexus,thats why it's called R&D,all the pro racers say that the Nurburgring is a really rough track!!!

Ok Lexus fanboys, listen up.

Knowing Lexus, this thing will handle like a boat, have poor brakes, get trashed by the Germans and be overrated as usual.

How do I know this? I don't. I am making up crap just like you Lexus fanboys are doing now.

My advice, wait until the magazines test them. I think I know already where the Lexus will finish, and it won't be on top...

the only POSSIBLE issue of contention, will be whether or not the car will have perfect 50/50 weight distribution and match or beat bmw on cornering ability.

it's almost a foregone conclusion it WILL have more power than the competition. the ls460 (MERELY a "fat sedan") already has a higher specific power output than ANY of its rivals. the japanese have shown they are capable of this for YEARS now, once they put their minds to it.

consider sport bikes. bmw had not been competitive there for DECADES. only now are they even in the same ball park on high-output engines.

the japanese have been all conquering with bike motors. they will REPEAT this dominance in car engines. they have ALREADY STARTED on this.

and they have NOT EVEN resorted to superchargers or turbochargers yet. (except on smaller motors.)

the ONLY limitation on high specific output, is how long you want the engine to last.

honda and now toyota have the ability to get WHATEVER specific output they want in production cars. limited ONLY by how long they want the engines to be trouble-free, to maintain their reputations.

they currently build IRL and F1 engines that are so highly tweaked, they require re-builds every other race. toyota does this even with PUSHROD motors, in the nascar truck series.

so for these advanced companies, high specific output is MERELY a marketing/durability decision when it comes to regular production motors.

both have offered PRODUCTION engines with 100 hp/l. in the original 2.0 S2000, and the 1.8 celica/corolla.

have bmw, mb, or audi offered ANY production motors with 100hp/l?

well, those are all "M" series motors (except the audi, which is as you admit, euro spec).

you can EXPECT the specially tuned versions to have higher specific outputs.

and you can reasonably also expect they will NOT have the long term durability of toyota engines.

as far as F1, it is a demanding series that involves FAR MORE than just the engines. today it seems drivers are a BIGGER factor. toyota and honda have not been able to grab 1st tier drivers. yet.

"Try a Mercedes or BMW V12! My local BMW-pusher showed me a trick where he balanced a coin on the edge on top of the engine and then revved it without the coin falling over! Now that's silky smooth!"


haha! you think that's impressive for a V12?

lexus was doing that with a V8. WAAAY BACK in 1989, when they first offered the ls400.



"And don't give me that reliability crap! The german reliability problems are with electrics systems not engine reliability! The germans produce extremely reliable engines that will give you 300.000 miles and beyond!"


well, are not electrical systems part of, and essential to an engine?

i think it is telling that many of the hi-mileage german cars are MB diesels, which do NOT electrical sparks! LOLOLOL!

you haven't seen many high mileage toyotas and lexuses because 1) they are not so numerous there and 2) europeans just don't DRIVE as far as americans. on average, we put 12 - 15,000 miles per year.
there are MANY toyotas go get to 300k, 400k, 500,000 miles. especially the 'yota 4-cylinder TRUCKS. any toyota product that cannot make 200k is considered sub-par. likely it was abused and/or NOT properly maintained.

the ULTIMATE test of reliability, is in 3rd world countries, where maintenance tends to poor to non-existent, and roads are bad.

look at films, documentaries, even news footage showing vehicles in 3rd world countries. most of the older vehicles STILL RUNNING are toyotas. i RARELY see OLD german vehicles. those two FACTS speak volumes!

Sheldizzy,

To make myself clear when I speculate those horsepower on those Japanse supercar, it came from reading old Road&Track and other automagazine. I "DID NOT" say it was the official or actual power. But it common sense if you think about, what? Lexus want to compete with M3,RS4 and C63 AMG, don't they want to have aleast 400+ hp of their own under the hood so that they can please with the big boy. Their current IS350 V6 already have 306 hp and now they put in the V8, I would guess that the engine will put out at least 400+ hp.

And what are you going to do about if I like to speculate about the up coming NSX and Supra? There have been alot of rumor going around the different automagazine that Toyota is releasing the Supra soon and so is th NSX from Honda. This a free country I says anything I want and the good thing about it you can't do jack shit about it, even you don't like it.

If you don't like my post don't reply or read it

Lexus for Life

Why are there so much hate for Lexus? ah...I get it now because they afraid that Lexus will take over this division really soon.

Although, I'm a die hard Lexus fan but I gave credit to BMW, Audi and MB when they release a very excellent vechicle, unlike you GermanFanboy. All this argument is getting crazy, let just wait until the car is release and see the official result, than we talk smack.

Lexus

Uhh, Will, you were talking about the iPod...

Constant freeze-ups? Dead batteries? I think you've been reading a little too much Consumer Reports.

I'm glad I'm not so paranoid about reliability.

having regard for reliability is not being paranoid.

it's one of those, "once you've experienced it, you can't live without it" kind of thing.

i've had toyotas (mostly), and a nissan and a honda bike.

i have gotten SO DAMN SPOILED for reliability, i get annoyed if i have to replace a burned out lightbulb.

i would NEVER tolerate any p.o.s. that i had to take back to the dealer for ANY unscheduled service. unlike many euro fanboys who think nothing of dealer visits every other month.

at one time, TOTAL RELIABILITY was one of the LUXURIES of fine car ownership.

these days, and esp. for people like me, it is a BASIC expectation. more, it is a REQUIREMENT for any vehicle in the "premium" category.

any car LACKING total reliability is NOT a luxury car. it is JUST A plaything. certain people EXPECT their toys to break now and then, 'cuz they have a lot of experience with CHEAP toys! lol!

total reliability is the ULTIMATE luxury.

it frees you of ANY concerns, so you can FULLY enjoy whatever OTHER attributes the luxury vehicle offers.

that is ONE secret of lexus' success. the german 3 continue to sell mainly to those willing to TRADE OFF total reliability for "magic feel" or perceived "prestige" or whatever.

with the IS500, there will be NO need for ANY tradeoffs or sacrifices.