It's time to drop the gloves! Which car is better-BMW 335, Lexus IS350 or Infiniti G35?

1. BMW - fastest and best handling
2. Infiniti - cheaper and more visceral than the BMW but not as luxurious or prestigous
3. Lexus - these are sports sedans, Lexus hasn't figured sport out yet.
This is my opinion don't flip out on me

For God's sake BMW is the SLOWEST in this segment.

Designer 1:

You must be referring to the 330i, the new 335i twin turbo is fast.

LexusAdmirer-

I don't know what you're smoking, but Edmunds got the Steptronic auto 335i to make the run to 60 in 4.8 seconds. Edmunds only got the IS350 to 60 in 6.1 sec and to give you the benefit of the doubt, Car and Driver (notorious for getting the fastest 0-60 times) tested the IS350 to 60 @ 5.1 sec, still 3 tenths SLOWER than the BMW...sorry, buddy.

Tough call between 1 and 2...

1. IS350, for reliability and interior
2. G35, for reliability but IMHO the interior was a little boring to me
3. 335, This interior needs an overhaul bad, the least reliable.

NARunner, don't know what you've been smoking, but as any smart person who isn't a slave to the chronic knows...you can't compare 2 acceleration tests from 2 different sources. C&D has a very specific testing calculation for their times - which I doubt Edmunds has. Also there was some suspicion that the Edmunds test car is a ringer - not confirmed - but just a suspicion from them (they compared with a customer 335i and the boost was different).

Might as well wait for a magazine comparo for more accurate acceleration comparisons - either way, things should be very close.

the 335i is the fastest here and every test has proven that what other car in this class can to 0-60 in less than 5.0 seconds those are M3 numbers and rs4 numbers(except its 20,000 more) the is drives like an old heavy lexus wheres the handling here, and the infiniti just doesnt have the luxury of the other 2.....but i would say the closest car in this class to the "best in class" 335i would be the G35 its cheaper than the 325i, looks better than the is, and is probably the most aggresive out of the 3(and most unrefined) but good effort anyway....lexus go back to the drawing board a 3 series fighter has to be more than just fast and small

jpmracingf1-

read the post again ace, I compared Edmunds test of both the IS350 and the 335i. And the car may have been a ringer, but the hp and boost figures were also well within the standard deviation for production cars.

I added the bit about C&D just to further bolster my point. And also I believe that the Edmunds 335i didn't produce higher boost throughout the linear curve, but held peak boost for 1000-1500RPM above where the customer car boost trailed off.

Also, as is becoming very evident the 335i can be tuned cheaply yielding significant performance returns. Vishnu Performance Systems has developed a piggyback system for $1300 that increased the whp by 50-60. Try tuning the IS350 using non-warranty-voiding measures for $1300 and see if you get those kinds of engine gains.

NARunner



"And the car may have been a ringer, but the hp and boost figures were also well within the standard deviation for production cars."

What is the standard deviation for production cars, Ace?

"I believe that the Edmunds 335i didn't produce higher boost throughout the linear curve, but held peak boost for 1000-1500RPM above where the customer car boost trailed off."

You do realize that the peak boost increase is where the peak HP figures are figured, right Ace?


"Also, as is becoming very evident the 335i can be tuned cheaply yielding significant performance returns."

Right, and you can tune a SRT4 for half the price of a 335i. What's the point? Obviously any turbo is more easily tunable. But then who would want a BMW without a warranty. I guess only Aces would.

Don't be a fool, jpm. I know standard deviation is a big term for you, but as the Edmunds 335i posted a max whp of 279 and the customer car put out 272, a 7 hp difference could be attributable to a production variation. It's not like the difference is 15 or 20 hp.

As for the boost, I reread the test and you were right. The Edmunds car produced .5psi higher boost than the customer car. You were right, I will give you that, my apologies.

And as for the tuning, the POINT, ace, is that as I'm sure you know a piggyback doesn't mess with the ECU in terms of changing the actual programming of it. So, in theory, the piggyback doesn't void warranty because when it is removed it leaves no evidence behind, the ECU programming is returned to normal. Therefor, for a mere $1300 you can have a car that blazes to 60 in an estimated 4.5 sec, far out of reach of the IS350. AND you still have warranty protection...ace.

NARunner, you must be the Ace Ventura of the car world.

Vishnu only warranties the XEDE module, not your engine or turbos that will be stressed by the extra boost. If you want them to cover the engine + turbos for 4 years, it'll cost $5k+

Only a fool would add the ~50hp without upgrading the brakes. Figure another $2k. You're looking at $7k in mods that will bring a 3series with about average reliability to LOW reliability. You can debate that if you want, but only a fool would say a modded car will maintain the same reliability. BTW, Vishnu doesn't always do to well in tuner comparisons. Some of their cars don't complete a test day.

Here's an interesting quote from them: "20. What is the risk in using mods that will be detrimental to the reliability of the car?
Answer : Shiv@Vishnu"

That basically means "No comment"

If you're talking tuner cars, any number of cars will own a 3series or IS anyway (STI, EVO, previous S4, hell, even a supercharged Tiburon).

Don't play the tuner argument, if you don't know what you're talking about..."ace"

I do not even know why are you guys having this discussion?? Do you take the original Rolex watch or the fake/copy ones when you can afford the real Rolex. Of course Lexus and Infiniti have been trying to copy BMW 3 series in decades. I choose BMW and do not even need to test drive the others since I can afford few thousand Dollars more and it is the king of the sport cars for everyday drive.

The BMW is for those that are into twisties and the other two are for those that wear a pink boa.

Notice how EL34 flipped his name around to 43LE!!EL34 are you some little punk kid,or are you just retarted???

1st: BMW
Better performance and handling

2nd & 3rd: Lexus and Infiniti. In that order or reversed. Not sure, one thing is for sure, they seem to be one step below the BMW

This rating is based on their sportiness, because this category is for sport sedan. Luxury is a secondary criteria.

You can't go wrong with any of them. They share similar goals, but differ in their means of acheiving them. Whatever one you choose you will still end up with an AMAZINGLY NICE CAR.

Only a fool would deny any one of them the respect they rightfully deserve.

I would take the IS350. Why? When it got introduced with its amazing power the other two trailed it immediately and had to catch up to it. The IS's quality is unmatched by any of the other two. Its fastest, handles better, less expensive than the BMW and on top of all that much more reliable than the other two. Such power in a car it better not break or what's the catch of having a powerful car that you get afraid to step on it for it not to break.

Well you can buy anyone you want and thats your choice, but performance. The IS350 is a very good car, it won't beat a 335i or 335ia in any performance catagory.
BMW 335i- 4.9 o-60 (4.8 for the saloon)
.91 g
150 top speed
the lexus or the Infiniti can't touch it.

Handling take a is350 around a track or skidpad hell even a round a bout and it'll understeer way before the 335i.

But does the handling match the performance? No. The car is very disappointing to drive (bad brakes, body roll, softness). Sheer speed is a small, one-dimensional aspect of what makes a good sport sedan.

Lexus has proved itself to be incapable of building something more multi-faceted.

IS handles better? Where do you get these fairy tales from? Lexus Dreamland or something?

The IS handles worse than the 3-Series. Wasn't it C&D that said that the IS is lame compared to 3-Series or G35?

Best looking:

IS350, then G35, then 335i

but for handling and performance 335i is tops

Lexusadmirer,
The 335i manual is definitely faster (4.9 sec.) than the i350 manu... oh that's right they don't make one.

Maybe someday the car ENTHUSIAST mags. will do a automatic only comparison so that we can know for sure.

I would put the Audi A4 next to them too, it just needs more power. But from this group, my choice is clear, 335i.

NYC45, power is a main characteristic of a proper sports sedan. Obviously you don't need supercar HP figures, but compared to this trio, the A4 is underpowered. It would be great if the A4 could make up for sluggishness with some other dynamic attribute, but it's handling and braking is not special either (mostly due to it's weight and FWD adopted to AWD chassis).

Only in FWD configuration. Because compared with these same three cars (all in AWD), the Audi came in first in a Road & Track comparison, despite having the relatively underpowered 2.0t engine.

Compared to an S4, the IS350 and G35 are easily beat in every aspect (interior quality, handling, braking, and engine).

As of yet, Lexus and Infiniti have yet to adopt a V8 RWD small sedan--Audi has proved they are more capable of designing one, USING THEIR OWN FORMULA, instead of copying from BMW as Toyota and Nissan do.

Tell me what "formula" is being copied from BMW? RWD? A 6 cylinder engine? LOL. The engine designs are totally different between all 3 companies. The same with suspension design.

Maybe Audi needs to put a V8 in a small sedan, because its V6 is so underpowered compared to everyone else (BMW, Lexus, Infiniti).

Again. I don't care about performance. So because a Lexus IS or G35 accelerates a second quicker, that's supposed to make me think they are superior cars. Take your head out your ass.

Infiniti used drafts and took design ideas from BMW in designing the G35. The IS doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in this category. All you have to do is drive one to realize that with its poor driving characteristics, it's just about as far as you can get from a sport sedan.

A number of elements factor themselves into eachother to make a great car--and the Japanese fall short, pitifully short.

You don't care about performance? Fair enough. Please exit to the right, as performance is a key factor in discussing sports sedans.

Maybe you're just jealous that BMW is seen as the sports sedan benchmark, and no one tries to outdo Audi? Or maybe it's because the A4 came in 5th place from C&D $35k comparo. The top 3? Oh, as if I have to even mention it, 1-330i, 2-IS350, 3-G35. Heck, even an Acura TL (Accord) beat the A4!!!

Factor in the new 335i and new G35 and those would be the top 2 in the comparo and probably my top 2 choices as well. Again please stop trying to leach off the German sports sedan team, because BMW is the only player on that team. Audi is like the minor leagues.

November sales figures speak for themselves. If the G35 was so great (it was out the entire month of November), why did a soon to be replaced, aging, and according to you, "underpowered" A4 still outsell it?

Here's a hint: it had nothing to do with lease specials on the base model, because the majority of A4's sold in November were equipped with Quattro.

The A4 readily outsold the G because it offers a much finer interior, superior AWD system, and greater resale value, and in 2.0t form, much more practicality and fuel efficiency (no point of an inefficient, gas guzzling 300 hp sedan when the highest speed limit is 70 mph).

How well received has the G been internationally again? Oh, that's right, NONEXISTANT, because Infiniti doesn't exist outside of the US, Canada, and Korea. And Lexus? No one takes this bloated, sloppy, and incompetant sedan seriously in Europe or abroad.

Reality check: 3-series, A4, and C-class are the players that matter. The comparison isn't even a fair one, and yet, the A4 still manages to outsell the G. Just wait until the new A4 and C come out, they will make a further mockery out of these Japanese imposters.

Japanese imposters Audiman?

I guess you would know all about it, the A4 being a pretty nice Jetta and all.

Does anyone know what the G35's drivetrain actually puts to the ground? The 1st generation G35s and 350Zs were either over-rated, or lost a LOT through the drivetrain. I haven't seen an N/A 350 or G35 that hit 240 RWHP on a dyno, but my IS350 hit 278.

Since performance is subjective and all 3 cars deliver it in spades, I've been looking at something a bit less sexy... ergonomic factors.

The IS350 back seats are way way too small. It really is a 2+2. For carrying people--or a rear facing car seat--it doesn't work. Why make a sedan that really is a 2+2?

The BMW really carves out a lot of interior room in the latest 3, especially in back. With fold down rear seats, you could get a lot of utility in this thing.

If you call the performance and handling a wash--which is spotting a lot to Lexus--you still have to come back to the BMW for everyday use.

If money is a big issue, you can't go wrong with Plan b... the Infiniti. They're all great cars.

Infiniti is the leader in this comparo. This is why. 1.Great handling vehicle
- Skid pad .89 with sport package

2.Loaded with Technology
-Brake Preview
-Nav with traffic alerts and voice activation.
-Lane departure warning system.
-9.5Gb hard drive that can rip CDs.

3. Excellent value (more bag for the buck)

I really don't care about who is 2nd or 3rd.

BMW's interior is bland. I can't justify the over inflated price. I am sure you BMW snobs can!!

Really, you don't like the all black interior with the brushed aluminum accents.

All custom looking IMHO.

These kinds of questions are irrelevant. Last month who sold the most cars? BMW's 3-series by a wide margin, followed by the A4 (which sold half as many units as the 3). Despite being a new car, the G35 had poor sales, and the IS has been steadily declining.

So the answer here is the 3-series. At this price point, people want the real thing, not a Japanese imposter (and if they can't/don't want the 3, they go for the next best thing, the A/S4).

Where do you people get you information from?

Automobile Magazine presented the all-new Infiniti G sports sedan with a “2007 All-Star” Award, and it also captured a place on Car and Driver’s “10 Best” List.

November sales of the G sports sedan totaled 4,299, a nearly 30 percent increase over November 2005. These numbers resulted in the best-ever November for G sales, and the second best month since the G sedan was introduced in 2002.

Before making accusation about the G do some research first. nissannews.com

Please explain to me how sales are down for the G35.

A4 the next best thing? The A4 is outclassed in every respect - underpowered, overweight, unreliable. The 3'er, at least manages average reliability. If I couldn't get a 335, it sure wouldn't be an A4 - most likely the G35. Please don't try to jump on the 'German team' with your A4 - we don't want you - and it's no coincidence, that the A4 isn't even up for consideration in this topic.

Nice try - sneaking in a S4 (which is a totally different category) for you to fall back on all the obvious performance deficiencies of the A4.

Funny how an aging design like the A4 still outsold the brand new G35 and IS for the month of November, by quite a large margin.

Performance? Like people in major metro areas, where traffic is a part of everyday commute, are really going to be able to utilize 300+ horsepower on a daily basis. Stupid logic.

The 2.0t provides superb efficiency, performance, and gas mileage. Greater performance comes in the form of the 3.2, S4, or RS4. Lexus and Infiniti can't even fathom to compete at this level.

Sorry, but the people have spoken--Japanese imitation doesn't equal German engineering.

Audiman, why are you part of this discussion. Obviously vehicle sales, gas mileage, and being livable in traffic are your main concerns. By the way, I guess a Civic is better than an A4 then.

If you think 300hp is ridiculous and 200hp is the best 'compromise', then fine. But the rest of us don't. BTW, the 3.2 A4 is a dogg. I guess you are the originator of 'stupid logic', if you scoff at 300hp cars, then hail the S4 and RS4. Sorry sir, but it is you whose logic is stupid.

I was at the Irvine BMW dealer yesterday checking out the X5 3.0si SAV and there was a Lexus IS parked where the customers park and it looked so funny.

hahahahahahahahahahaha

The salesman helping me said early in the day he helped a guy trade in his Z8 for a brand new M6.

hahahahahahahahahaha

A salesperson at my BMW dealer (that I worked with- I don't now about the others) had an Audi TT 3.2 quattro coupe.

FYI...The Ford Taurus sales included FLEET to Hertz and other companies.

We can use that same logic to describe Lexus.

Well the BMW 3 series is a best seller as well, are you going to use that logic here too. Sales don't determine good cars, yet that doesn't mean that a good car doesn't sell well.

1.G35: I like the interior better than the 3. One could argue over button quality and other minor details, but the inside of the G blends cozy and sporty much better than the all-business 3... I would not have said that about the joke of an interior on the previous G; but the 3 has gone backwards somewhat and the G is leaps and bounds better. +1 Infiniti.

When both are equipped with a manual, the G is a half second slower, but without the use of a turbo, … and more importantly, “driving joy” is at least on par with the bimmer. I’m not counting seconds on Nurburgring, just test driving. Another +1 Infiniti...
and the final nail in the coffin: Similarly equipped, the G is about 12K cheaper than the 3, and it has a better reliability record... that’s a different price class for two cars so similar in performance and amenities. You could throw your "can’t afford a BMW" all day long. I’m going to take the 12 grand and put it into an investment that will grow instead of shrink... by the time I sell the G, I’ll be able to buy another one in cash from the growth of more wisely spent money. +2 Infiniti on this one.


2.BMW 335: The 3 is like having a hot, psychotic girlfriend. Really fun to drive when she’s in a good mood; but requires lots of maintenance and the mood swings will challenge your desire to keep her around.
It’s a better car. Yes, that’s right, its better than the G. There’s a quality to BMW mechanical engineering that goes unrivaled. It’s better looking on the outside, and drives in a more refined manner; but overall, I feel like the extra 12K I would dump on this car are going toward brand recognition. The interior is merely "acceptable," which is unacceptable for a small sedan pushing 50K; as this is where I spend all of my time. Reliability is spotty, at best. I love driving this thing, but when considered as an investment I’ll have to live with daily for another 3 years... not sure if its worth all the payments.


3. Lexus IS: Its too small. Period. Its well built, the standard-setting ML sound system is a huge plus, the ventilated seats would be huge plus on the often unbearably hot West Coast of the US, and it is the most comfortable to drive... but its too small, and Lexus simply doesn’t understand "driver’s car" yet...
The paddles: While test driving the IS350 (an ’06), I tried out the paddles. I’m doing 50 in 5th gear, I need more power so I down-shift to 4th. When I press the gas, the car DOWNSHIFTS AGAIN!! On its own. I double checked to make sure shifter was in manual mode. Yep. The paddles essentially control the auto the same way as (D-3-2-1) in older cars... this renders the paddles useless, and there is no manual option in the 350. Sorry Lexus, maybe next time.

Kudo's to this comment!

This is the way to post...classy, informative, insightful, not mean-spirited.

You made some great points and the other posters should use your style as a template.

Great job!

001

You make some great rational arguments.

If only rational arguments won the day in this category. They don't. Who needs a 300 hp compact sedan? It's an entry-level fantasy purchase.

If your fantasy has a dose of reality in it, then you have found a great car in the G35. But for many of us, a fantasy doesn't include buying the Japanese challenger brand. Especially since BMW has ended the horsepower gap, improved reliability and created a spacious interior. I would take a 328 over a G35 because I know myself and if I took the Infiniti for all the head-reasons you stated, I would regret it.

You have a very selective attention span, choosing which facts to incorporate and which facts to ignore in your shortsighted arguments.

ALG ranked Audi residuals third behind BMW and Lexus, in the US.

As for power, my argument is that in this class of cars, sheer speed is not the only important variable. The BMW 330i was slower than both the IS and G35, yet outsold them both for the month of October. Reality: BMW's engineer better all around cars at every pricepoint, and people are willing to pay for it.

Reality 2: The A4 is extremely competitive in this segment, despite an aging design. Wait until the B8 comes out, I guarantee it will widen the gap even further between itself and these two Japanese knockoffs.

Reality 3: Despite Audi's so so image in the US, the brand readily trumps Infiniti and Lexus in global recognition and prestige. Most international customers wouldn't even be having this debate--they don't regard Infiniti and Lexus as true competition.

Audiman,

Reality #1: No one says speed is the only variable, but good power is an important variable to a SPORTS sedan. Sorry if this excludes the A4

Reality #2. You mean "lessen the gap". G35 and IS are already AHEAD of the A4. How many VW's have that same Audi engine?

Reality #3. Sort of like the same way BMW would never consider Audi any real competition.

You really are stupid, everyone was right.

The G35 engine is shared with the 350z.
The IS engine is a modified version of the Camry engine. It somehow always manages to go back to the Camry with Toyota...I mean Lexus.

Right..and the A4 engine is an unmodified engine found in the Jetta, GLI, Passat. The A2 shares parts with what? The Skoda? Seat?

quality stuff there....high quality.

The A2 isn't on sale any more.

I wonder why....?

I wonder why....?

Hey, I didn't like it either.

Here is my take;

Lexus IS350
PROS- Great Performance,Lexus Dependability, Very Sexy Styling
CONS- Size (Too Small), Price, and a little too numb for my liking, lacks European driving flare.

BMW 335i
PROS - Twin Turbo Engine with almost no lag, amazing handling, reputation for performance.
CONS- Price, Dependability history (especially 1st year production), Styling lacks certain 3 Series traditional cues, very "blah" interior, the ultimate status seekers transportation.

Infiniti G35
PROS - Awesome performance, best V6 in the business, truly amazing sounds, size, excellent stereo, innovative technology, aggressive styling that stays true to Japanese heritage, very original (not a wannabe 3 series),Huge warranty, dependability heritage, excellent handling, best value for dollar hands down.
CONS- Lacks the status level of the BMW and Lexus, ummmm......

The 2007 G35 is my pick, truly an amazing car, shows the world that the Germans are not the kings of the neo-luxury market anymore. Once the reputation of the 3 series has been estabilished for the G35 you may very well see the crown go to this car.
What more could ask for in a sports sedan?
The Reliablity of the Lexus, and the driving pleasure of the BMW, and more of a connected feel that either the IS or the 3........and here's the best part.....its a lot less money than both of its rivals!

The 1st G35 was an awesome performance car but lacked certain appointments that held it back from being the victor. My hat goes off to Infiniti/ Nissan, they were listening and all those concerns have been addressed in the 2007.
Do the math and like myself you won't be able to justify buying anything but the G35.

Mazman

I realize why there is so much hate between audi and then everyone else. It's because no matter what audi fan boys feel they aren't enough and therefore they must argue and argue and argue so they can get some of the action, and this starts a cycle that that has no end to it. Audi fanboys need to calm down and understand that every car brings something different to the table and to say that one car is better than another car completely is ridiculous, audi fanboys, chill out and open your eyes cause it's not fun arguing over the same thing over and over again.

Audi has not given the fanboys much to get excited about in the entry-level category. The A4 is currently a nice, pretty commuter car. It's no coincidence that all the buzz about Audi has come from the RS4. The fanboys are frustrated. Get us a faster A4, stat!

Are you kidding? The Audi guys on Autospies are some of the most non-biased posters on this site. A shame the Lexus fanboys keep putting them down.

I couldn't agree more. I think that what people forget in picking on Audi or Lexus or Infiniti is that these vehicles help up the ante in the car wars. For example, if Lexus hadn't launched the IS350, would BMW now have 300 horses? The answer to that is probably not, as it would have saved millions of R&D dollars for Bimmer to keep using current technologies. Therefore, we should appreciate the positive attributes of each car that helps build that better 335, G35 or IS350!

1. 335/G35: The 3 series is too good but the G35 has shown that you dont need to spend that much money to get as much Performance/luxory. (I like the exterior of the G35 better)

3. IS350: I dont find it as classy as the other two, despite the Lexus name. i like the performance but I really dont like the looks.

reminds of a story in one of the major car magazines.
their test car featured the then brand new V8 in a 5-er.
it DIED at less than 25k miles. it was replaced of course, and bmw claimed it was SO unusual, they had it shipped back to germany for analysis.

(the writers DID say, it was a GREAT car. until the engine went kaput.)

this comment was meant to follow Buldogz's below.

Nothing beats German engineering...Enough said.

Is all that superior german engineering truly superior if it is not dependable?

As a BMW owner, I have to say that you are a MORON BimmerFan. Ignorant fanboys like you give us all a bad name. German engineering is great in many respects, but to give a blanket statement that "nothing beats German engineering...enough said" just shows you are a slave to marketing or you are very insecure.

ummm. nothing except unexplained, drastic and TOTAL ENGINE failure?

Interior of the IS350, Looks of the G35, and the engine of the 335.

Interior of the Lexus; yes
Looks of the G35; yes
engine of the 335?; NO
Turbos of the 335 on the G35 engine.....Now were talking!

It just so happens that Audi is the third highest selling premium brand in the world behind BMW and Mercedes-Benz.

It's funny when we talk about sales in the premium segment. I am curious to know what the numbers look like when you take out the lower version models, e.g.
Mercedes A class and base C class, BMW 1 series or base 3 series, Audi A3 base series. I would certainly not consider these lower end models are premium. Also, I would take out taxi and fleet sales.

Your point? The Audi A2 is the worst car on this planet. The A6 is a dog. The TT is a fashion statement from the Golf platform (hopefully the new one performs better). The A4 really needs some updates. I really like the A8 and the S lines, though. All in all, a far cry from the level of BMW (despite their 'questionable' styling on some models).

1. I think most people shop price and then find what vehicles fall into their price range. For those that are shopping on price, they will probably be comparing the 328i sedan vs the G35 sedan.

Of those, which is better?

For the approximate cost of a 335i you can get an Infiniti M35 ($41k), M35x ($44k). Which of those is better?

2. I looked into the 335i and configured the cars to how I would buy them and if the pricing on the new G35 is similar, I see a whopping $11,735 price difference. I'm not sure I would pay 23% more for the badge and heritage of the BMWs for similar performance. I would agree though that BMW is probably a better put together car, but in my experience they have been much less reliable.

3. So, 2007 335i or 2007 G35? If money is not an object go with the 335i. You will be driving the best sedan in the class (BMW is an asperational vehicle). If you have to keep an eye on the budget, buy a G35.

Budget aside, for less money the G35 offers a superior interior. Secondly, time is money and if your BMW is spending alot of time in the shop then its already higher price becomes even larger! Even when money is no object you have to factor all of the features of a product before justifying its purchase, and the BMW's price can not be justified.

add to this (MARK my words) you can expect the price GAP, TO WIDEN in the very near future.

due to ever growing strength of the Euro vs. Dollar.

i'm ALMOST feeling sympathy for the euro fans. if not for the abrading arrogance, i WOULD be feeling it. (a very FEW posters do not show this arrogance. good for you.)

Quit counting the pennies and buy the BMW 335, what's the matter with you?

Nice comment vladyxa. Real smart. Maybe when you don't need CAPS to get your point across, people might actually listen to you. It doesn't take a genius to figure out a comparable BMW will generally have higher maint costs than a Lexus, and that a Lexus will generally be more reliable than a BMW.

If you've owned cars from each brand for a while, you'd be aware of that. But since you are obviously waiting to have your cherry popped by buying a used 318ti so you can brag about the blue/white propeller to all your Corolla driving friends, you have a lot to learn. How do I know this? Because only a child will bring out that buying a lower-priced car means you are too poor to buy the higher-priced car. Either that, or you're just a middle-aged wanker.

Infiniti's have historically had poor resale. Audi did, but now has improved to the point that they're ranked third behind Lexus and BMW.

Though most Infiniti's have low resale value, the G35 is probably the exception. For example, the 06 G35 is on Edmunds 10 Best Residual Value Cars.

RESEARCH...

jpmracingf1... one who is most insecure must respond to other's opinions and make them personal. You might benefit from some psychiatric help. My office can always use more patients.

Which needs to be treated first. My oh-so-obvious insecurity, or your imaginary visions of a make-believe psychiatry office.

I Think the new 3 series Lacks Style.....what makes it a good car is because its a BMW

1.Infiniti
2.Lex
3.Bimmer

In my eyes

BimmerFan---You are Like so Bias to BMW it is not even funny....

...and Aston Martin, Alfa Romeo, Porsche. I just happen to own 3 BMWs at the moment. I am partial to BMW. I dont see a problem with it. Some of you do. That is your issue, not mine.

i know a guy who is a very loyal volvo fan.

he's got a WHOLE YARD FULL of 'em.

(maybe 1 or 2 actually run) ;)

vladxa,


If adding after a P.S., you would use "P.P.S", not "P.S.S"

Guess you're younger than I thought. Either you haven't passed the 5th grade, or you're just retarded.

1. IS350: fastest, most reliable, nice interior, good handling (IMO), but doesn't carry that independent image.

2. BMW335: prestigous, probably the best handling, lacks interior appeal, expensive compared with competitors

3. G35: faster than the BMW335, nice interior, good handliing, best bargain, BUT...you may as well get an Altima(I'm sure nissan will produce a 3.5R and it will be much cheaper than the G35)

Jay7, your info is incorrect. Please read up on these cars and actually drive them before you comment on them. The 3 is the fastest, but only by a little. The IS and G are neck and neck on acceleration, but you can't get a manual with the IS. The IS isn't in the same handling league with the G and 3 (the 3 is as solid as a tank and feels like it's on rails, though a bit numb). IS barely gets the tick for reliability, with the G at about the same level. The G and Altima are completely different cars built on different platforms (the G is made in Japan and sits on 350Z frame). Altima is an American-made FWD car with a less refined engine/suspension and the SE-R costs almost as much as a G.

They are all good cars. Of course Lexus has the most reliability. The Bimmer has the best ride and handling suspension and the Infiniti is in between.The Infiniti has the best price point so for the money then it would be the best bang for the buck. The Lexus is going to be the most luxurius and probably the quietest. The Bimmer is a Euro car. If money were no object I would own the Bimmer. If price were a consideration I would own the Infiniti. If I really valued luxury and quietness I would own the Lexus.I currently drive a Mini Cooper S. So if I were in the market I would probably by the lower powered Bimmer without the servotronic and 6 speed. Point is it really gets to be a personal choice.

Superior Lexus reliability howso? Cupholders that don't flip out like Audi and BMW that Americans seem incapable of understanding? Maybe the fact that German cars have a higher learning curve to understand the workings of the car?

The differences in "reliability" are irrelevant, considering the criteria Consumer Reports and JD Powers use to distinguish alleged "problems".

Take out a so-called "reliability" advantage, and what's left? Two Japanese copycats that command prices of over $30k and claim to be sport sedans.

AMERICANS HAVE SPOKEN: THEY DON'T WANT KNOCKOFFS.

Even without considering reliability, the comparison still doesn't include the A4. Outclassed, outgunned, placed 5th place in the last $35k C&D comparo.

I guess C&D editors are not American. They spoke, and the A4 got owned by the 330i, IS350, G35, and...

... an Acura TL !!!!

Instead of dissing the importance of reliability, maybe you should ponder why the A4 isn't in this story.

It's the same thing with you, over and over again. You knock the A4 for "not being in this league", yet refuse to acknowledge the fact that it outsold the G35 (a brand new car introducted in October), and the IS, despite underneath it all being a four year old car.

Audiman,

If you think sales=better car, then you have some serious problems.

So by that reasoning, the Acura TL is a better car than an A4. It outsold it and beat it in C&D comparo. Your arguments are baseless.

"Audiboy here is just upset that the headline to this thread didn't even include the A4."

Hmm.

This is a thread about new, 300hp "entry-level" sedans. The A4 is neither new nor a 300hp car. Notice how the C-Class, X-Type and TL aren't included, either.

When the new A4 comes out, we'll talk.

"The A4 is neither new nor a 300hp car. "

Exactly. The A4 is simply outclassed.

Wow, you stop at nothing! READ- the A4 is not NEW! The new A4 WILL HAVE 300HP!

This site makes me sick...

Will, you're so disillutioned and shortsighted. The IS isn't taken seriously anywhere, not even here, where the BMW outsells it 3 to 1.

Take your head out of your Southern, country ass.

Audiman4,

To those reading your postings you might be the one suffering a head-in-the-ass issue.

Step away from your computer. Go detail your car. Relax.....

You really love those sales figures Audiman. Sorry, but Audi's worldwide figures don't interest anyone here, especially since it's mostly made up of the crappy A2 and A3 (overpriced GTI porker).

And like I mentioned, please don't support any BMW arguments. We know BMW is the best already, and your support just discredits that. Don't put the A4 in the same category as the 3-series.

Like I said before, Audi is German, but it's more like the German minor leagues.

I like them all, but here's my placement...

1: 335i. It's the most balanced of the three- combines perfect driving dynamics, a well-furnished interior (though not up to par with the Lexus), a smooth ride and good gas mileage in one stylish package.

2. IS350. Most luxurious, least sporty. Not much of an edge any more because it has no power advantage- but I like the looks.

3. G35. It's lost the specialness that made the last model so appealing. No longer the most powerful, and the cheap interior is a weak effort by Infiniti- especially after seeing the M's much nicer interior. I also don't love the way it looks.

I vote for the Kia Optima.

I wish if I tested all the three cars to give you an informative impression, but because I didn't, I wouldn't debate on something I did not experience. Bye, the way, which one of you actually drove all three cars or at least one of them?

Here is my take...

Life is a compromise. Is the BMW worth $10K more than the Infiniti or Lexus? I think it just comes down to what your priorities are. If it’s performance, the BMW is a no-brainer in my mind. It’s incredibly capable, and possibly comparable to the outgoing M3. It is also the flashier car of the the three. For those who are more interested in family car attributes of sensibility, price consciousness, or geek attributes of excellent technology, the Infiniti or Lexus would be the choice. They offer more and better technology than the Bimmer at a lower price, and has performance that is more than adequate for all but a few.

since when do I own a Mustang? Please Explain...

arg! posted in the wrong spot!

1. BMW :The best of the best

2. Infiniti: Fast, techy, and bloated. Looks like a bubble. 2nd place

3. IS350: IMO, its ugly. The lower front facia is terrible. The car is more lower grille than anything. Ugh.

...coming from a Mustang owner.

I don't have a Mustang. How would you know? I'm simply a fan. (I've never owned one)


Oh, I see, your new here. Only 3 articles you've posted on.
I'm at about 640 articles. (42 pages of comments on my AgentPage, 15-16 articles per page, with a few missing)

way to add to your credibility, 'stang guy.

as bm3w asked, how many opinionmongers here actually test DROVE any of the cars they love to criticize.

then here YOU are, with a screen name for a car you don't even own?

i shall henceforth WORSHIP every word you post...

correction: Auto Fan, not BM3W made the comment.

I forgot to add. Since my prorities are inline with performance. The winner for me is the BMW 335i.

Which am I throwing my cash down for? 335...but the coupe instead of sedan. According to Edmunds, it came in 2/10ths slower to 60mph behind the Ferrari they most recently tested. This is one serious beast. As for the Japanese competition? Yawn.

The IS is the winner here...

Like the other two, it has the AWD option, which is key.

In the style department, the IS is a few cuts above the rest, as most can agree.

In power, it might be bettered by the Bimmer, i don't know, im not an expert.

In overall luxury, it is far better than the Infiniti's fake aluminum and more luxurious (not neccessarily sportier) than the Bimmer.

That is my opinion, feel free to set me in my place.

The 335i gets my money. It feels like a much more exotic car than the others.

The 335i is far far far from exotic. It's one of the most popular cars on the road.

If you are looking for exotic, go for the Lexus. It's bound to turn heads.

He was saying it relatively (compared to the IS350 and G35).

I don't think the 3 Series will be beaten in the near future.

It offers the ideal combination between sportiness and comfort.

The IS misses the mark. It's fast, but not a visceral car. If I owned one, I would be sad that the 335i is out now. It has no power advantage.

The G35 is okay, not great. People buy it for the value.

I'm excited to see the new C-Class and A4/A5. Perhaps one of them (hint: A4) will be the first true 3 Series threat.

No, it wasn't.

"Certainly no magazine will rate a permanent-AWD Audi over their precious 3-Series either..."

They already did.

Road & Track, March 2006:

1. Audi A4 2.0T quattro S-Line

2. Subaru Legacy GT 2.5 Spec_b

3. BMW 325xi

4. Lexus IS250 AWD

5. Mazdaspeed 6

6. Infiniti G35X

7. Volvo S40 T5 AWD

Subaru Legacy Subaru Legacy GT 2.5 Spec_b!!!! Yeah, I remember this comparo. Go Subaru!!!

You know hater, I just don' agree with on the Lexus because it is sharing styling ques with the new Toyota Corolla.

And whenever I'm up close to a new BMW I just stand there studying the lines.

They do long term tests on 1 specific model of a car. Plus, most car rags usually only have 1 or 2 cars in each category. They usually only keep the car for 1-2 years. What about costs after the warranty period? Only longterm and regular customer data can provide an idea about that. Hence CR reliability ratings for past model years do change on occasion. It doesn't mean those ratings are a portent of things to come, but serves as a guideline to help a car buyer.

Sorry, but I don't buy the psychological explanation as to why Japanese cars are more reliable than German cars. That sounds really desperate.

The expectations are brought up by the price you pay for the car. Not the label. Whether someone is paying 50k for a Lexus of MB, that thing better work reliably. Besides, your argument doesn't make sense in the fact that Lexus is "known" for reliability, hence it would have higher expectations for reliability than other brands. We aren't talking about MB's from the 70's that were built like tanks, anymore.

BTW, if you think all these writers of car magazines actually can afford to OWN a luxury car (let alone "a few" to do real-life comparisons), you have a gross misunderstanding of publishing salaries.

"i don't question lexus' reliablity as much as the supposed unreliability of the others."

Will, READ WHAT HE SAID. Don't just skip to the part of the post that you didn't like.

there was an article where some reporter actually tried to find out what kind of people DID do the testing at CR.

turned out, a couple of the key people were auto engineers. and even owned sports cars!

many don't realize, there are TWO components behind CR ratings. the reliability thing. and real ROAD TESTS. which are even MORE comprehensive than in the auto rags. done with cars they (anonymously) BUY, not borrow from a distributor or dealer (who could slip in a ringer).

just about all their road tests BACK UP people's opinions about which cars "handle" and which ones don't. main difference is, the CR doesn't use zingy, adolescent prose like C/D or others. they just refer to "accident avoidance" capabilities.
(with the new young engineers, an occasional "fun to drive" will even somehow slip in, here and there.)

the reason CR gets so much flak, is because they DO factor in the reliability stats. compiled by professional statisticians, btw.

any car, NO MATTER how good at "accident avoidance," gets a "Not Recommended" if it falls Below Average on reliability. and this IS NOT a high bar. Average is ok. (Above Average being best, of course.)

the fact a LOT ob MB cars, including the vaunted S-class, FAILS TO GET OVER THIS LOW BAR, has mbz really PISSED at CR. but facts are facts.

bmw and audi are slightly better. but they too, are beat by most AMERICAN cars (to say nothing of asian) on reliability.

as HONEST posts by former bmw owners here attest to.

Will, your boyfriend is calling.....he wants you in the bedroom!

Will, don't forget to deflate her after yer done!

LOLLL. Good Come Back Will.

damn Audiman4 got zinged so bad!

I declare BMW the winner.

Where's my car?

Sweet.

Now that there has been another posting extravaganza, can we all just agree that there isn't one car that's the "best"?

Let's discuss more important things like where the hell is Infiniti's Q45 replacement, and why are Audiman4 and Will swapping partners?

Sorry to disappoint, but there is no such thing as a Toyota IS 350. But it seems to me that the most boring person would drive the most boring car. So tell me, what do you drive. That way we can all deem our decision on that.

Does "Toyota Altezza" ring any bells?

LOL!

Why do Toyota guys keep bringing up the Jetta, when it shares absolutely nothing with the A4? That's like calling the IS a Corolla.

Reality: The Lexus ES and RX share more in common with the Camry than any Audi does with a VW.

LexusHater-
Oh, that was real mature.

Even though my car has absolutely nothing (ZERO- not a thing) in common with the Jetta? Nice try!

And Will, you actually DO own a re-badged Toyota Celsior- everything was the same between the LS430 and the Celsior. I know, I know- you're going to yell at me about how the LS460 isn't a Toyota any more. Well, I'm not talking about the LS460- I'M TALKING ABOUT YOUR LS430. So, in essence, you drive a Japanese-spec Toyota, which is one reason why it was much less expensive than competitors. Will, could you have afforded (and/or bought) a Mercedes-Benz S430, with your options, when you bought the LS430?

Let me make a prediction before I even read the article:

1. BMW
2. Infiniti
3. Lexus

Oh, never mind. It was an opinion article.

In that case, I obviously choose the IS 350. I own one of these and can say that I have been more satisfied with Lexus than with BMW. Infinitis would be nice except for their crappy, cheap quality interiors.

Did you own a 330i before your IS350?

If so, and you're STILL more satisfied with Lexus, then you don't really appreciate a driver's car.

What Lexus fans can agree on is that the previous-generation 3 Series had a very handsome, logical interior. I think the new one is just as good, but others don't. However, I think the 5 Series is crap on the inside.

I actually did own a 3-Series. I even drove one of my friend's 3-Series and still love my Lexus more because of the way it feels. So why don't you just go drive your AWD Audi to a place where the sun don't shine. (I was talking about your butt, if you were having problems realizing what that meant.)

Ha! Will, you don't have a clue.

Man BMW can't build a normal naturally aspirated engine without failing every 4 days, they have a twin turbo engine now?? That's absolute madness, let's wait and see how good the engine will cope with the turbos and we will remind each other. Wake up. The IS looks nicer, performs much better, regarding its naturally aspirated, reliability is much better and quality. People who chose BMW do it only for showing off.

I have my IS350 for a year now. It was probably one of the first IS350 to hit the US land. My girlfreind just got a 335i (coupe) 2 months ago, and the car has been in the shop for 20+ days. Everything in her car seems to be falling off, literally. But 335i is an absolute blast to drive. handles much nicer, and power is there when you need it, esp when you are trying to pass. no turbo lag or whatsoever. For performance, IS350 is no match for 335i, but it doesnt mean IS is cant perform. IS350 performs very well indeed. I dont know why people are saying LEXUS handls like a Buick. Sure, ES350 handles like a boat but if you havent driven IS350, I suggest you go try one. The interior is much nice even tho my IS350 doesnt even come with Navigation. The build quailty of IS is a lot more superior than that of BMW's.

It's really a tough choice choosing btw IS350 and 335i honestly, I am glad i get to drive whatever I want (when 335i isnt in the shop)

The question wasn't which one is the fastest thus the best.

the reason CR gets so much flak, is because they DO factor in the reliability stats. compiled by professional statisticians, btw.

any car, NO MATTER how good at "accident avoidance," gets a "Not Recommended" if it falls Below Average on reliability. and this IS NOT a high bar. Average is ok. (Above Average being best, of course.)

the fact a LOT ob MB cars, including the vaunted S-class, FAILS TO GET OVER THIS LOW BAR, has mbz really PISSED at CR. but facts are facts.

bmw and audi are slightly better. but they too, are beat by most AMERICAN cars (to say nothing of asian) on reliability.

as HONEST posts by former bmw owners here attest to.


[excerpt of fuller post above, for those who only read latest]

"bmw and audi are slightly better. but they too, are beat by most AMERICAN cars (to say nothing of asian) on reliability."

Then why are so many BMW and Audi models recommended? Check your latest CR. You'd be surprised.

as i said, the bar for getting a "CR recommended" rating is NOT ALL that HIGH.

look at the actual reliability records in "Frequency of repair" charts. american makes beat out euro brands.

if you want to ONLY count "CR recommended" models, then see what percentage of a brand's WHOLE line gets that rating. as mite be expected, toyota has the highest percentage.

i don't believe ANY toyota or lexus actually gets a "Not recommended." lowest is simple NO rating because the model is too new.

Owned a few BMW's over the years. None have really been to the shop as often as some might suggest; however, maintenance is pricey. In this comparo, I would still choose the 3er over the other two sedans.

The 3er handles better and provides the right amount of support for drivers. Among the three, I don't really get the arguement ovver the interiors. The Infiniti's interior is great although the buttons seem a bit too many. The 3er's interior is probably decent and cold;however, the IS interior isn't that nice compared to the other sedans without a NAV sytem on it.

A sport sedan by definition should be….well sporty.

If price is no object, then it’s obvious the BMW 335i is the best car here.
Yes, they all seat 4, they all have 4 doors, they all offer pretty much the same options and gadgetry.

But, the Bimmer is the best cause it takes performance to heroic levels. And it does it with acceptable levels of refinement and comfort.

Plus, you don’t have to explain to your friends why you bought one.

Well... this is a pretty simple question to me
1st: 335i
better performance, better handling, the interior is more stylish, but the exterior might not be that standing out compare to the other two.

2nd: is350
much better than the last is.but the performance and handling are still no way compare to bmw.just when you hold the steering wheel,you already know which car is better.the exterior looks really sporty, but the dash board is not looking too exciting, although its very refined, but i bet you next year when you see it again, you will think the interior is soo old fashion... ...

3rd: g35
pretty good performance and handling. nice exterior. but the interior is just way soooo chrap... ... looks so cheap. doesnt look like a bmw lexus competitor.

FYI, the 06-07 Lexus is using the same faux-Aluminum (plastic) Inifiti abandoned in 03-04 vehicles.

FYI, the 06-07 Lexus is using the same faux-Aluminum (plastic) Inifiti abandoned in 03-04 vehicles.

And that is what I like about the BMW.

Heck with these three cars, I would pick a left over C55 AMG! You can get a C55 now for basically the same price as any of these cars fully loaded with exception of the G35. The C55 power is so incredible, the G35 (or IS350) are not in the same league. Even though the Bimmer posts a fast 0-60MPH, (I've seen the C55 posted at 4.7sec - 5.1sec.) the C55 feels so much stronger throughout all driving conditions. Lexus...well, its a Lexus. No driving dynamics. This comes from past BMW M owner, Infiniti Q & G owner, and now proud C55 owner.

need more cars to join this battle

Audi, MB and Caddy, but NO Acura, FWD crap need to stay away...

i will get G35

I would rule out any sports sedan that doesn't have a stickshift. Automatics are for video game wankers. If you really are a car enthusiast, learn how to take full control of your engine and drivetrain. Otherwise, you're just a poser.

But aren't some cars like the Porsche Turbo faster with the automatic transmission?

Manuals are fun to be sure, but when you have a multi-hour commute through shitball traffic, their appeal quickly wanes.

The G35 wins hands down. Has the performance & handling on par with BMW but adds great technology and has a "new" feeling interior, while the BMW feels like the 80's. G35 has AWD option. and just too many improvements over the 335i to list here.

BMW can compete if it dropped $10K in price, then it's only 3K more then the G35 for equally equipted vehicles (yes it's $13K more!!! stop saying no, go to the bmw.com site and build a 335i... YES IT's $53,390!!! vs G35's $40,390!!!)

Lexus would need have bigger back seats or it can't compete, might as well be a 2-seater. it would also need AWD option on the 350. and much better handling/suspension feel.

Uh... How do you vote? this site makes no sense???

how silly.. its like comparing audi to BMW. BMW wins every time!. On every dimension. Lexus? Infiniti.?? i am still laughing.

Agree. In this comparo, the BMW is tops. If I was on a budget, I'd probably go for the G35.

Just sick of the Audi boys trying to jump in on this comparo, putting down the Lexus/Infiniti cars when the A4 is a step below in performance and reliability.

I have to say after having owned Both a 2003 330i in the past and currently an 05 G35 Sedan that there is certain refinements that the BMW offered over the G35 I now drive.
BMW's have a certain feeling to them that is consistant among their entire line up. If you have previously owned one, getting in a new one offers a familiar and pleasant feeling.
Unfortunatley over the year BMW's have become too refined, and over engineered. They lack that true raw driving experience of sound and feel that made me first fall in love with them during the time I owned my E36.
The G35 I drive on the other hand is alot more focused and dedicated sports sedan than any BMW I owned in the past. Sometimes its a little too raw for my liking, the shifter vibrates a little too much, and road noise is a little more than I would like. Truly the G35 feels right at home when you are driving it as hard as possible. Its almost as if it encourages you to abuse it, you become tiresome or impatient when you are having to drive it easy, or just cruising. The interior of the 2005 I drive is a step up from the 03/04 models but still feels a little cheap.
I was really concerned that new G35 was going to become too refined and would lose some of its rawness. I have driven the new G35 and I have to say it is truly an awesome car. Any issues you read about me complaining about my 2005 have been addressed. Its as if they took the car I drive now and perfected everything about it. The lines are smoother, the powertrain is smoother, and the road noise has been signifagantly reduced. Personally I prefer the IS350's interior styling, and find it to be a little more rich and inviting. By comparison to the 335i's interior the G35 wins hands down, the BMW's interior is boring and basic by comparison. The sound of the G35 has always been great, and the new one sounds even better. Its as if Infiniti managed to take the current note and remove any rough sounds the previous one would occasionally make.
The reasons why BMW has lost my business is;
A) The reliablity was never something you could depend on, and the costs of repairs were too high and frequent.
B) BMW as a brand has lost its initial allure that attracted me in the first place. BMW was at one point like Infiniti...the Under Dog. Since their rush of fame many years ago the brand has developed a certain arrogance that makes not want to be an owner.
You see I look at it like this, an individual buys an Infiniti not for recognition but for what it truly offers. The person who is driving the Infiniti bought it because they at one point fell in love with it. Now you could say that the guy that buys the BMW might have felt the same way, but in many cases I cant agree. People don't de-badge their G35's, actually in some cases they will re-badge them as Nissan Skylines! At BMW you can find some buyers that will buy the low end model and de-badge it, or worse re-badge it with a false higher badge to "show

continued.....
All in all you have to ask yourself what you are buying. A car for your true enjoyment and pleasure or to impress others. If you are buying a BMW 335i you could have both, but at a premium. But if you are confident in yourself and are honest with yourself then your desicion will be a pure one. Personally I feel that the Infiniti buyer bought their car for themselves and not the eyes of others.

One word for BMW... Chris Bangle. The new BMW's are just plain ugly IMHO.

My vote goes to the new 2007 G35 Sedan. I just traded my old 2003 G35 Sedan for one. I can afford the new BMW 3 series sedan but decided to get another G.

The interior of the 2007 G's has been vastly improved
and with 306HP it's fast enough I worry about my wife driving it.

Here's a few pics of my new 2007 G35 Sedan:
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234421

One word for BMW... Chris Bangle. The new BMW's are just plain ugly IMHO.

My vote goes to the new 2007 G35 Sedan. I just traded my old 2003 G35 Sedan for one. I can afford the new BMW 3 series sedan but decided to get another G.

The interior of the 2007 G's has been vastly improved
and with 306HP it's fast enough I worry about my wife driving it.

Here's a few pics of my new 2007 G35 Sedan:
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234421

WOW!!! Your car is definitely smokin'!!!

Funny how anyone chosing BMW is getting blast-boosted down into the negatives. I think we have some serious BMW haters in here.

I don't think many BMW posts are getting blasted. I see a lot of Audi wankstain posts getting -negs though (from the Lexus, BMW, Infiniti supporters combined!)

Just more of the Audiboys (Audiman, S4cabrio) trying to get some attention. Can't blame them - always in BMW's shadow.

Sorry for the long response, but have any of you driven all three???

I've driven all of them, with the DSC/ESP on and off. I’ve got them all sideways too. I expected them to be all pretty good, just a little different, but they were DRASTICALLY, maybe DRAMATICALLY different in how they felt. Putting looks aside, this depends on what you like, and more importantly, what you don’t like, as usual. If you don’t push the car hard, then any of these cars will do fine. But as you begin to push these cars up to, and past their limits, their differences become pronounced. From a performance perspective, all of these cars do pretty well and pretty close in a straight line with good practice with the gearbox. Give or take 2-3 tenths isn’t a huge difference.

Engine/acceleration: Where they really behave differently is when you need torque and don’t feel like dropping two gear shifts to rap the thing out to get it to do what you need it to do. The BMW was by far the best power plant here, more usable torque and smooth and sounded the best too. I’d give a tie to Infiniti and Lexus for 2nd; the Lexus was smoother and quieter, The Infinity felt like there was a rougher engine and “sound insulated” so you didn’t hear its rough edges, but you could tell. Because the IS engine was so smooth, you could red-line it and not feel guilty; reminded me of a high-RPM pneumatic precision dental drill. The Infiniti made me feel guilty about pushing it and had a sharp torque drop off.

Braking: I POUNDED the brakes on that BMW until they began to fade. When I was finished, the front wheels were very dark with dust. These brakes held up like rockstars, just like my M3. I could tell they were hot, they made that sound that hot brakes make, but they never faded that much. The G35’s faded more than the BMW but held up good. The IS were disappointing. I got these puppies too hot and I warped the rotors. Yes, when I returned the car, I I said “there’s something wrong with these brakes”, just after giving them a cool down and wiping the brake dust off the wheels. Ouch. Sorry Lexus, I could never buy this car because I would have to immediately have to replace the brakes with something better.

Driver Feel- Breaking Loose: When pushing to and past the limits of traction, it’s nice to “feel” what’s happening, and what’s ABOUT to happen as the car goes from full traction to over/understeering. I could get the G35 sideways easier than all of them because it’s rear end is lighter in comparison to it’s torque, but it all happens at once, making it, well, not very fun. It goes from understeer to oversteer very quickly, even doing both for a second. I really didn’t like that. The Lexus was more balanced in it’s traction bias and had a smoother transition to oversteer (tailspin), but I couldn’t get it to deliver enough continuous torque to keep turning the car with the rear, so it was a nice slide while it lasted and then grip. When not oversteering, it preferred

I think a comparison is pointless in the sense that the Bimmer is going to win hands down. Just look at all previous comparison between the 330 and these cars in Car & Driver, Automobile Mag, Road & Track. Whichever magazine you pick, the Bimmer comes out on top. All editors had drawn the same conclusion: "BMW is the most balanced". Well, my comment is that it shows the value of Branding. BMW has been around the longest and is known for sports sedan and these guys just treat BMW as royality. My other comment: A car is most balanced when it is parked so I argued that post office mail delivery truck parked in front of a mail box is just as balanced as a BMW.

The other reality that these editior failed to notice:
Even BMW realize that it is underpowered so that it comes out with the 335. The sad part is that it has to use two turbo charger to match the other cars' output as it insist to use an inline-6 rather than a V6, it is handicapped to use a smaller displacement engine in order to retain its near 50-50 balance so it must use turbochargers.

Turbochargers have their merits as the Bimmers' torque trumps the competition. Funny that AMG has been doing that for a few years now.

So Bimmer deserves to win because of higher torgue, availability of 6-speed manual, being more "balanced" and the most important fact that its junior brother 330i already beat the x out of the other two cars.

Power and torque were not the problem with the inline 6 from BMW. M3/Z4 M is an example.
And inline 6 is not handicaped vs. a V6 in any way other than that it's longer. But than again it's the only one naturally balanced.
Getting then to increase power without much extra consuption and displacement and CO2 emissions was the main problem (due to european taxation and legislation).

MB have using superchargers, not turbochargers.
BIG diference.

I would disagree about the G35 ousting a 330 on a track. I've driven both of them. This would depend on the track.

Nascar style oval, the G35 would win because it has a power advantage and can "set-in" to a lateral G a slightly harder. (By design, to win over spec-sheet shoppers for marketing).

But in technical twisties, the 330 would be better; better weight balance, better in oversteer/understeering dynamics in change of attitude. I've driven them both, at and beyond their limits, the 50/50 weight and positive handling of the 330 BMW, I believe it would be better.

On either track the 335 would come out ahead.

I've done the same thing to a friends G35 coupe, and he had brembo upgrades. I wasn't impressed with that car, mostly because of the powerplant and transmission, even though it's the hottest looking one of all these cars in coupe version IMO.

My number one concern is reliability. And in that order my pick is Lexus, Infiniti, BMW. However, my second concern is performance coupled with AWD for year round drivability in poor weather. Lexus and BMW cripple the performance of their AWD versions. Infiniti is the only one at this point in time to offer the same performance engine for both RWD and AWD. So it is my #1 pick at this time. I currently own a 2000 BMW 328i. Great performance and handling. However, after test driving the Infiniti, I came away very impressed. Nearly the same driving feel and even a bit smoother in operation. The Lexus by comparison feels numb.

My number one concern is reliability. And in that order my pick is Lexus, Infiniti, BMW. However, my second concern is performance coupled with AWD for year round drivability in poor weather. Lexus and BMW cripple the performance of their AWD versions. Infiniti is the only one at this point in time to offer the same performance engine for both RWD and AWD. So it is my #1 pick at this time. I currently own a 2000 BMW 328i. This is my 3rd BMW over the last 21 years of car ownership. Great performance and handling. However, after test driving the Infiniti, I came away very impressed. Nearly the same driving feel and even a bit smoother in operation. The Lexus by comparison feels numb.

I liked the IS350 so much I bought the first one that came in.

The 335i is a better driver's car than the other two;however,the G35 comes pretty close. The IS may offer more comfortable seats than the other two but it suffers greatly due to the small space offered in the rear. And in my opinion, without a nav system the IS interior is practically bland and overrated, specially the red wood, which seems rather cheap compared to the light wood trim offered in the 3er.

sorry Bangle-heads, the new 3 series sedans back lites look like a freakin ugly Buick, and the coupe looks like a whole Buick..........boring!

I vote for the consistent BMW 335 styling for exterior and interior.

The BMW looks expensive inside and out, but get the 335 without the wood trim inside and get the brushed aluminum.

The other two cars are wannabe crybabies.

Hey, I have never owned a BMW.

I keep reading about BMW's are not reliable.

Can someone tell me specifically what the reliability issues are with BMW's?

The G35 is the best overall value. I am not sure why someone would buy a BMW for 5-6k more. for that extra 5k you get 3 extra letters. Not worth it in my mind. The Lexus doesn't even compair, its too soft.

The G35 is the best overall value. I am not sure why someone would buy a BMW for 5-6k more. for that extra 5k you get 3 extra letters. Not worth it in my mind. The Lexus doesn't even compair, its too soft.

hey, EL34 have you ever heard anycars are as reliable as Japanese BIG3, NO, none of the german cars are not as reliable as Japanese BIG3

If you think Nissan is not reliable, then none of the German cars are no reliable at all...

I could be wrong on Porsche, that is only one company could the best reliable from Germany

is this the biggest thred in the autospies.com ever had???

WOW is this a popular topicn not to mention controversial. Sorry guys, their are two types of people sharing their opinions here, BMW owners and admirers and those that cannot afford one so a car a good car 10 grand less must be better. I like the interior, the car is awesome to drive. I have driven all three cars and I still feel that "Nothing drives like a BMW.

That about sums it up. Those that can afford the best car in it's class, or those who root for the underdog for less $.

Why don't we compare cars in the same class against used cars of the same value? If you spend $25,000 on a used or new sedan, who wins: BMW/Audi/Lexus/Infiniti - etc.

This reminds me of a popular segment on 5th gear.

The used car market is much more adjusted for perceived value than MSRP.

indoctrin8ed - Those who can afford one??? That's an ignorant comment...I've owned 3 BMW's over the last 7 years, a 330 Sedan with the MPkg, a 330CiM, and an M3, and let me tell you what I'm driving now...a 2007 G35, and not because I couldn't afford another bimmer. It's because I got tired of their crappy service, and the constant visits to the shop. My first 6mths with my 330Ci i had driven the car may a dozen times. The service guys put most of the KM's on it. Rattles like crazy, electrical issues and the list goes on. My M was a different story but none the less had it's share of issues. So I figured I'd try something different. Having owned several bimmers, and now a G35, and have driven the IS350, I'm happy with the decision to go for the G35. Here's why:

G35 - Nice styling interior and exterior although not perfect it's comfy and full of high tech stuff. Motor is powerful enough and naturally aspirated, which I prefer over turbo charging. Handling is great and the balance is not that far off from the 3 Series. I'm sure most won't notice it unless you're taking the car to the limits. Brakes just as good and the tranny much better than the 335 with it's long throws like your rowing a boat.

IS 350 - Nice styling a little to luxurious for my taste, quick, but lacks manual transmission. When beating on the car the computer doesn't give you too much room to play with since you can't turn off some of the annoying I'll help you drive the car features.

335i - Does nothing for me interior is the same plain boring interior, reports of issues with the turbos have already started popping up. Who the hell puts both cup holders of the passenger side???? Features which should be standard these days are still optional...like Bluetooth (at least here in canada), and as far as I'm concerned the 335i rear end looks like an Accord. The coupe is another car altogether, sleek, fast and sexy. It's almost like BMW was afraid the competition and just dumped the motor into the sedan to keep them from losing the horsepower race.

Just my $0.02

i think the bmw is a better used car. get the warrany, and forggetabouit

You just know that the 3-series will power along over its model shelf-life, retaining its benchmark status, while the IS and G35 will become old and have to keep on getting re-freshed as interest in the 'also rans' dwindles.

No arguement, the BMW is the better car to drive. However, many are put off by the image of BMW, and don't wish to follow the crowd.

For those people, the IS and G35 become interesting options. However, those put off by the image of BMW will most likely stick to a European car, and will buy an Audi or Mercedes.

1. 335
2.5 G35
2.5 IS350

BMW - Incredibly fun to drive, excellent visibility and driver position, torque and power to beat the others, sublime handling and smooth and supple ride. Only car I've driven that feels like an extension of my own limbs. Has a timeless style that grows on me. Like a fine beer or wine, it's an acquired taste, and I appreciate the design more the more I look at it - (except the rear of the sedan, still can't get used to it - ugh).

IS350 - Great paint job. The style initially turned my head, but grew old on me fast. It's like a saccharin sweet and catchy pop tune that immediately catches your attention and sounds great at first listen, but you quickly get sick of. Other negatives: Suffocating interior, unharmonious grey/green plastic center console and really cheap and hollow feeling knobs, thin plastic paddle shifters- My kids have toys with more substantial controls on them. Joke of a back seat, numb handling, a yawn to drive, jittery/jumpy ride. And to top it off, NO MANUAL TRANSMISSION! No thanks Lexus, maybe next time.

G35 - Never liked the overuse of fake (or real) chrome in Nissan's cars. I'm not a fan of Nissan interiors. I just think the design is immature looking. Like they're trying too hard to look sporty and come off like your little brother trying to look cool in front of your friends. Haven't driven it, so I can't comment other than to say I've read several extensive reviews in the past months and I suspect that it doesn't match the 335's composed, ultra-refined ride and handling or the feeling of the controls. It seems to be a more crude effort in many ways.

Value:
1. G35
2. IS350
3. 335i

Performance.
1. 335i
2. IS350
3. G35

Appearance
1. IS350
2. G35
3. 335i

Quality
1. IS350
2. G35
3. 335

The BMW is the best car overall by a small margin but is also the most expensive by a large margin. (pretty disproportionate) The G35 is a great car but gets horrible gas mileage and has an uncomfortable foot setup (the gas pedal and foot rest seem to be at drastically different positions). The IS350 offers the best balance for your $. I think depending on your price point G35<IS350<335i you can't go wrong. I found the IS350 to fit best for me.

In the end it's very difficult to choose because the cars are priced differently....I remember when I bought a Prelude in 2000 they were saying it was runner up to the 3 series coupe...but the cars were $15000 apart!

If I was going to spend $50K for a car, I'd get the Lexus GS.

Good post!

001

Everyone has their own opinion. In reality I don't think this is a "Winner" its based on situation, taste, preference....

For me 2007 G35X then the 335XI and then the IS350. I can also give an my own accurate opinion because I was in the market for a car and I test drove all 3.

G35X has a gorgeous interior in the new sedan, good power and good reliability history and best bang for the buck.

The 335XI was nice, I just didnt like the interior styling and also cost about 8k more than the G35X.

The IS350 didn't appeal to me much but since Lexus was right next door might as well be nosy. The IS350 felt cheap inside, which surprised me, my buddy has a GS and the interior is gorgeous. Also it lacked power compared to the 335XI and the G35X. Still more expensive than the G35X.

So I ended getting a 2007 G35X.

For the people that said the G35 interior is cheap, you obivously have not seen the 07 G35 sedans.

The IS350 really didn't feel like a luxury car, the interior wasn't what I expected from Lexus and the car was slow.

I really did like the BMW, but the price tag makes it difficult. Like many people said if money was not object, they get a 335XI. Well if money really wasn't an object I wouldn't be looking at these 3 cars..

I vote for the 335. I own the coupe so I'm obviously biased, but this bias is based on test drives of each of the models in question prior to my purchase, and I finally settled on the 335. BTW I test drove the 335 sedan not the coupe I ended up purchasing. Here's my take.

These cars are all really nice cars. I'm not going to be a snobby BMW owner and say the other two are copycats. The IS350 and G35 are excellent cars in their own right. Personally, I like the styling of the IS more than the other two. Lexus threw in a lot of nice in-cabin tech with Infiniti not far behind. BMW is behind in the luxury and tech appointments.

But for me the whole reason I was buying this car was a combination of luxury and the drive. The 335 impressed me the most with the acceleration and handling at the limit. We can drop magazine figures all day, but what matters is the way the consumer feels when he/she actually drives the car. I came away with the best impression after driving the bimmer.

I was very excited about the IS350 test drive, I had heard and read a lot about it and was pretty sure that was the car I was gonna get because it had the performance numbers and the looks, along with Japanese manufacture (I am a fan of Japanese cars). The IS350 acceleration is supposed to be very quick, but it didn't *feel* quick. And the steering was very electronic-feeling. It felt like I was playing a video game. My weak 99 Honda Accord had better road feedback and felt more sporty. Lexus really luxurified (made up that word) this car and thats a good fit for some people but not for me.

Infiniti's acceleration and handling, on the other hand, were quite impressive in contrast. The looks of it didn't impress me as much though, and despite the butt-dyno the acceleration on paper wasn't great.

For a $10k+ premium the 335 delivered the ENTIRE package. It feels faster than the other two, it is faster on paper, and it handles well. The tunability has already been proven. You really feel connected with the road. Is it worth the $10k premium? Esp with expensive (and stereotypically, oft-occurring) BMW maintenance/repair after the warranty is over? I try not to ask myself that question. I admit that if I were a more financially sound person I would have opted for the G but the emotional thrill kinda killed my rational side.

If I was short on the dough (or even if I had the dough but didn't have as much emotional attachment to driving pleasure) I would definitely get the G35. But, I love to drive, and the 335 was perfect.

As stated before if you buy any of the three cars listed above your going to be happy with your purchase. This segment is so competitive that they have to be amazing! With that being said, the three cars that I looked into getting were the 2006 Is, 2006 325i, and the 2007 Infiniti G35. I started my research on all the cars as soon as I heard about the 2006 IS coming out. I really liked the BMW at first and figured I would get that as soon as I could make my purchase. Then... I drove the BMW. It was amazing at handling and the shifts were smooth as could be, I loved it. But when I got done driving I sat in the car and looked around... I was struck with distaste... It wasent what I expected in a 40K car. When I test drove the Lexus I fell in love with the exterior and the interior was my second love. Everything was smooth and fit perfectly, I live in Houston so 100 Degree weather is so common that the Ventilated Seats were a HUGE plus! It drove much more might a tight car but like others have said you dont feel as much in tune with the road. However, in Houston 99% of the time im in bumper to bumper traffic and would rather be in the more comfortable driving Lexus with all the amenities of it than the BMW. Now on to the G, I loved the way it drove, it felt great, ride was pretty good but the exterior already seemed dated to me, I LOVED THE SYSTEM in the G! It was GREAT! Wow... but it just did not seem to hold up in its comparision with the BMW nor with the finish or quality of a Lexus. My other main decision was based on reliability, the Lexus was at the top, the G second and BMW last. I will be driving this car for probaby 6 - 8 Years, once that Warranty goes out I dont want to have to deal with constant mainteance. Anyways, Im rambling but I think at the end of the day the best car will be up to the decision and based on the background of the driver. If I had plenty of winding roads on the way to work it would be a simple answer, BMW. But since thats not what I deal with most of the time it comes down to what I as a driver need. The G would have been my choice if I felt its resale value would increase, its gas mileage was better, and the overall quality of the car had increased grealy over the old one, however it did not increase as much as I expected it to... I just love the way the Lexus behaves in the city even though it does not handle as well as the BMW, it has so many other features that put it above the BMW when it comes to comfortable driving which is what I want when im trying to get back home after a long day at work/school. Anyways, Dont get me wrong, had I purchased any of the three cars I would have loved them all, I just felt the Lexus was the best car for -ME-. :)

BMW SUcks.... Audi and Mercedes Rocks!!