Audi TDI : Pure innovation for 2008

BIAS!

Fact!

Perfect timing wth the EPA regulations exposing the FAKE Prius milage the new Prius milage will be 42 town from 60

WOW

yay america gets the good diesel engine!

Actually its a scientific fact that HONDA just produced the best diesel engine. So...HOLLER!

the best diesel engine? their first diesel? doubt it. it's a good engine, but they only have 1.

Bluetec didn't pass emmisions because the EPA is dragging its tail. The technology is available and ready, all it needs is the approval from the hypocrites at the EPA.

Nice spin, trying to act as though Audi followed Toyota with hybrid, when it's common knowledge that VW was testing hybrids fifteen years before the first Toyota hybrid came out.

VW/Audi will utilize both of these technologies, successfully. More experience than Toyota in hybrid engineering and development, and more experience and a desire to market diesel engines in the US.

Audi diesels until recently have been terrible about as refined as a putting your head in a metal bath and smacking it with a golf club.

Honda do do a very good diesel engine its almost like a petrol but its not the most economical despite what the claims say.

No if you want a good diesel you need to get a BMW far far better and with second generation common rail tech they really are head and shoulders above the rest for power, economy and certainly refinement.

Oh I'm from the UK and have driven them all before anyone gets clever. ;-)

Clever is just not a factor here. But think what you will. The past is the past and current is current. The current TDI's from Audi are great like it or not.

I can't wait!

The A6 3.0TDI, Q7 3.0TDI, (HOPEFULLY) the A8 4.2TDI, the E320 CDI, the GL320 CDI, and the ML320 CDI will revolutionize the American luxury industry! Go Audi, go Mercedes!

Amen!

I would like to see the Q7 with the 4.2 TDI

Can't wait.

technology and VW?. as i have said before.. oxymoron. for morons!

Atleast Audi is making leeway in pioneering this useful fuel saving technology, not only through diesel but also hybrid innovation.

BMW just sits on their ass and expects everyone to buy them, despite the play school quality interiors, shitty reliability, and virtual ubiquity on American streets.

Atleast Audi can successfully pull this off, something Toyota can only dream of. If Americans could only see past the marketing, they'd see Toyota's are nothing more than a bunch of marketing hype and an impressionable, gullable customer base.

Since when are Toyota hybrids actually anything to brag about? Performance increases, and minimally better fuel economy? What a joke.

Audi's technology is more far-reaching and practical, and also looks to address long term fuel concerns, rather than Toyota's, "market to the ignorant (American) masses" approach.

Most of the Prius benefits are from the absurdly ugly aero body and intense use of ultra-lightweight materials (that consume vast amounts of energy to produce and generate more pollution than 10 years of gas savings can compensate for). But hey, it was a distraction from the dozen models of SUVs on the lot, and stopped the tree-huggers from spray-painting Toyotas with nasty slogans.

My God, there doing all the typing for me. Good going!!

Go deesel!

No jealousy involved, but here are just the facts.

A 5,700 pounds SUV (gasoline version around 5,500) that has 500 hp and 738 lb-ft of torque. So you get AMAZING performance. And AMAZING fuel economy of 20 MPG COMBINED. So like 18 city and 22 highway. [numbers for the current EPA test]

Can anyone argue with those numbers? Didn't think so.

I see, but you cant argue with the numbers that the Audi Q7 V12 TDI puts up. Even if you wanted to.

I think it will also be nice if Audi updates the V6 TDI for the Q7 when it gets here to 250 hp and better fuel economy courtesty of the 2,000 bar injection pressure from the V12 TDI.

When VW released its V-10 TDI for the Touareg and Phaeton (an engine that was displayed at the Detroit show in the AAC car in 2000 ... that vehicle has since been copied by Honda, although scaled down in size, as the Ridgeline with "giant, magic, flying robot" styling) it was not only the most powerful engine available in an SUV, but it beat the engines in the full-size pickups too.
Link: http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2000-Volkswagen-Advanced-Activity-Concept.htm

The Dodge Durango gets 15 MPG on a good day.
The VW gets almost 30.

The VW weighs 5500 pounds.
The Durango with HEMI power weighs 1200 pounds LESS, yet takes 1.2 seconds LONGER to go 0-60 than the bigger, stronger, more luxurious VW (numbers from Road & Track).
The advantages of Diesel power are so obvious!

The reasons that the luxury car buyers in Europe pick diesel power are:
* Europeans know a lot more about cars than Americans (they don't buy into the marketing BS as much ... and don't get me started on the recent ads with moving highways and all that crap)
* they want the improved performance of diesel (cruise all day at 150 MPH ... not just a quick blast till the engine over-heats)
* they like the range (the next big city is driving distance away, not 1000 miles like in the US ... but there are also roadside theives/pirates/hi-jackers too, so its better if you don't ever have to stop along the way)
* of course, the fact that the engines last twice as long, so resele is much higher doesn't hurt.
What most americans don't understand is that its the SMALL and cheap cars that have the gas engines in Europe.
For some reason, many people assume that the small cars have diesels and the big, luxury cars are gas-powered. Its the opposite! Diesel is the preferred engine. Gas engines are for poor slobs who can't afford a diesel.

one other thing about european diesels: diesel ALWAYS has a better resale value. the range rover 3.0 diesel has a better resale than the 4.4 petrol, which costs more money in the first place. so the fuel savings in the diesel are boosted by the better resale. YAY.
i also like this bit "Europeans know a lot more about cars than Americans" thank you :)

Audi/VW diesels are officially the best in the world. Without doubt. Mercedes is getting there. Toyota, keep making your wind-up hybrid cars. Lexus, "what the hell is a diesel?"

FYI: Lexus IS220d is a diesel powered car sold in Europe.

Mercedes and BMW also make excellent diesels Mr Uber Audi. Get rid of the bias, and maybe people here will start taking you seriously (I doubt that though since you've already revealed yourself as an Audi troll).

sracekili
they may have 1, but it's their only one. and it sounds like spanners in a tumble drier. bmw's 320d is more refined.

Rupert,

I know. Toyota/Lexus diesel is not as refined. I just wanted to tell Mr. Uber Audi about it ;-)

Cheers.

Yuck, I cant believe all these "so called" German driving fans pining for a Diesel. With the driving dynamics of a tractor and the revving characteristics of a bicycle in a vat of molasses, they might burn less oil if you are drving 100 miles or more a day .. but frankly just take the damn Bus to work ..

No body has even attempted to challange the Q7 V12 TDI with a hybrid comparison. Impressive.

"VW already admitted the superiority of hybrids by commiting to produce a hybrid Jetta that is found to be more efficient than the diesel Jetta. Why are you still in denial?"

And Toyota is making a diesel hybrid! Get over yourself!

Bluetec can already easily get 50 state certification. And it will be cleaner than a car built 5 years ago. The EPA just has to approve the technology like I said.

The issue is the EPA. The Bluetec technology meets the emmisions with Bluetec injection. The consumer will only have to refill the Bluetec solution when they change their oil. EPA hasn't approved that yet. The VW Jetta without the Bluetec injection but with 50 state certification has already been shown. It is just a matter of time.

i guess everyone thinks the future hybrids will be very simialar to the current ones. dont u think toyo or honda are gonna improve the milage and technology on them for the next gen.

that bogus report about a VW gas-hybrid is not worth bringing up again and again as an argument.

Meanwhile, my TDI is 50-state legal.
Of course it won't match the current standards, but neither will the gas engines from 1998. But when I bought it, it was the lowest polluting car for sale in North America. And I believe that the V-10 Touaregs were 50-state legal when they came out.

The main challenge in hitting emissions laws in a diesel, is that the laws are designed to be (barely) attainable with gas-engine technology ... they don't take diesels into consideration at all. So its truly amazing that Benz can get 50-state certification for emission levels designed to be almost impossible for any vehicle to meet, but tweaked to make it easier for gas engines!

Actually, the 2006 Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI was sold/is currently on sale in California. But the 2007 is not. So the 2006 Touareg is/was 50 state.

no loop-holes.
Modern diesels are simply Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicles.
so: "get over it"

RESALE VALUE
Since that was brought up, I did some research on autotrader.com, autotrader.ca and found that my '98 TDI is worth 60% of the purchase price. The same car with a gas engine is about 40% of purchase price.
a 40% residual after 8 years is really good.
But 60% value is INSANE!
The value retention on VW diesels is so high, that the prices practically flat-line after 5 years. They don't get any cheaper as they get older. The price for a '98, '99, 2000, and '01 TDI VW is basically the same.

REALITY CHECK:
When ny VW TDI was 3 years old, the resale was still 100% of the purchase price (the price went UP at 1 year and 2 years old). And that was back when gas was relatively cheap!

BEST RESALE RETENTION from what I've seen is the VW CAMPER VAN.
These things are worth 60% of new at 12 years old. Many sell for 50% of purchase price at 20 years old! You can't drive on a freeway without seeing them. And some are more than 30 years old (with the rare sightings of 40-year old VW buses).

Unforunately for XeroKOOL, there is no Toyota vehicle to match the investment quality of a VW Diesel or VW camper, with the possible exception of the old Land Cruiser Diesels, which would be a great vehicle if they didn't rust out so fast (something to do with that cheap, recycled steel maybe?)

diesels ALWAYS have better resale in countries where diesel is properly sold. ie 730d has better resale than 730i or even a 740.

BTW huu76 check this out:

http://www.autospies.com/news/Diesel-Drivers-Report-Higher-Fuel-Economy-Than-EPA-Rating-Hybrid-Lower-10791

Diesels were once noisy and slow, but were always and will always be, 30% more fuel efficient than spark-ignition.

Today, diesels are quiet, fast, and refined, and are the preferred powertrain in Europe for luxury sedans and SUVs.

Late 1980s. Most European countries raised taxes on gasoline to curtail personal transportation and highway expansion--a conservation policy. They kept taxes low on diesel fuel so as not to hurt commercial traffic costs.

Consumers then wanted diesels to save money on fuel, but wanted them more refined.

As a result of this demand, diesels have been transformed, and most Americans have no clue. Today's diesels are preferred in Europe for their refinement over gas power. Diesel power represents 50.3% of 2006 new registrations in Europe. Even countries like the U.K., where fuel taxes are levyied equally, diesels prosper with a 40% market share of new car purchases.

Most manufacturers approve biodiesel, in any blend, for the European market. All diesel cars--not just special designs--can use biodiesel. When America gets control on fuel quality, biodiesel will be fully approved here as well. Biodiesel has more than 1 1/2 times the energy content of ethanol and about the same as gasoline. This means that with biodiesel and a diesel vehicle, you don't lose fuel economy or performance, and you don't have to convert, modify, or buy a special make. Pump it in; pay; and drive. You use 30% less fuel, and 20% less petroleum-based fuel, burning B20. It's a win, win, and its only available with diesel automobiles.

In the future, more alternative fuels will be offered for diesels that come from coal, natural gas, and bio-oil developed from waste. In all cases, alternatives for diesels will have more energy content and will go straight in your existing diesel vehicle with no modification or loss in fuel economy. Spark-ignition can make no such claims.

Hybrids! Hybrids are a great, fuel-saving technology. I'll take my hybrid with a diesel! That way, I'll get an additional, 30% fuel economy advantage over the typical, gas-electric hybrid; and then, I'll use biodiesel blends to further may reduction of petroleum without hurting fuel economy or performance. I don't buy in to choosing hybrid or diesel. I'm choosing a compression-ignition engine, first and foremost, and then, all other fuel-saving technologies that can be applied to this superior method of internal combustion.

Note: In UK vehicle taxes are VERY HIGH and they are taxed based on how much they pollute (based on CO2 emissions).
Since Diesels pollute so much LESS THAN GAS powered cars, they present a huge operating cost savings on both the fuel and on the taxes.

Touareg TDI not fifty-state legal.

Are you kidding? Where did you get that?

It's fifty-state legal right now, and has been for months.

It goes to forty-five state status in January, but has been fifty-state compliant since August, when it was introduced back to the American market.

The Touareg TDI was the first clean diesel in America that utilized a DPF with a ULSD fuel and low-ash oil requirement. They sold it before the new fuel became available, stating that it could temporarily run on LSD, and that it may emit a harmless, white puff of smoke, intermittently, until the new fuel arrived. ULSD now makes up 85% of all on-road diesel fuels.

Someone wanted proof that Audi was the diesel king.

...Let me see...

How about a sweep of the Le Mans series race in its introductory year, competing against spark-ignition entries who have had over fifty years to get it right.

Oh yeah. The Audi R10 TDI used less fuel than all others in its class and burned cleaner as well.

Oh yeah. And when the gas lovers cried--"unfair"--and the race officials forced Audi to use a smaller fuel tank and add weight to the chassis compared to all the other vehicles; they still never lost a race between the two TDIs.

Yeah--I would say Audi is the king, but MB still holds their own in reliability and dependability. There is more to being the best, than performance. Over half of all the MB diesels ever sold in America, are still on the road. VW--Audi's parent--can't claim that with TDIs in America.

Greg, I think that well over 1/2 the VW TDIs are still are on the road. I'd be surprised if its less than 75%.
Remember, that the TDI wasn't introduced until 1996 in the Passat. (with a 5-spd only).
That's only a 10-year old car.
It still has 2 years left on the VW warranty (VW/Audi is the only manufacturer who warrantee their vehicles for 12 years against corrosion ... you folks in the land of salted roads should take note!)
So, my TDI with over 210,000 on the odometer still has 4 years of warantee on it.
When it hits 400,000 I'll probably have to help my son change the brakes again, and maybe the factory exhaust will be going......

Quick search of Autotrader.com: VW/Passat/1996-97/Diesel.
All cars but 1 between $5700 and $7000, lowest mileage 158k
Average price: over $6000
Same car in gas engine: 174 cars, avg $4876, median mileage ~95k
Same year Toyota Camry: >1000 cars, avg $5555, median mileage ~90k

What's that say?
Toyota owners drive slightly less than gas-VW owners and re-sale is slightly higher.
But VW TDI drivers drive > 70% MORE and their car's resale is 30% HIGHER even though the mileage is 70% higher too!
I've seen Jetta TDI's with > 470,000 kms on them with only oil-changes and timing belts for service. They last!