Why Diesel is Killing Petrol

"There’s no hiding from the onslaught on the track either, as Audi proved at Le Mans earlier this year with its all conquering, oil burning V12."

While gasoline engines have made a giant leap in the past decade, diesel engines have improved tenfold when compared.

You are correct until we as American's (some of us) get our heads out of our rears and see the benefits of diesel over gas [in cars].

"Diesels are louder "

Don't suppose you've actually driven a Mercedes E320 CDI? That has one of the quietest engines i've ever heard, even compared to it's gas counterpart. The only time i ever really heard it was when i punched it, and then it was giving me the deep loud growl of a V8 instead of the 6 that it was.

Diesels aren't as noisy as they used to be. The typical diesel of 10 years ago has changed a lot. But then again, I live in the UK...

BIAS!

Hybrids are the future!

Heck NO! Cold fission is the future!

fission???

i'd love to see a cold nuclear bomb!

or a "cold fission" nuke plant run its turbines with COLD steam ;).

You're somewhat right. Hybrid diesels are more of a future engine. A few companies are already working on them. Think about the possibilities when you have a engine that gets 50+mpg and has 400 pounds of torque. You would want to drive forever and could actually do that b/c it's a diesel.

Until diesels become cleaner than gasoline engines their future will be limited. As gasoline engines, especially hybrids, become more and more efficient, the public will increasingly look at the bigger picture-the overall impact on our enviornment that includes more than just mpg.
The 2nd generation hybrid (SECOND!!), in a mid-sized vehicle, gets roughly the same mpg as a diesel in a compact (the common Prius-Jetta comparo). But the hybrid is exponentially cleaner. Wait till generation 3. Ad as our traffic becomes more and mroe congested, the benefits of an engine that works better in city than rural driving becomes clearer and cleaer. Combine this with the 40 cent premium in diesel pump costs (when not subsidized by Euro govts), and diesels make less and less sense.

Diesels will be just as clean as cars next year. So that excuse is over. And more fuel efficient as 2006 Jetta had an old TDI, from the time when the first Prius came out if not earlier. So the brand new TDI on the 08 Jetta will have more power, more torque, much less emmisions, and better fuel economy. And diesels has never been 40% here in the states.

i said 40 cents, not 40%. learn to read please. and you can make just as many assumptions about the future diesels as you want, just as I am doing about hybrid gen III. However, facts are facts, the Prius is still cleaner and more efficient now (in its 2nd gen) than the best diesel is (after 100 years of development).

Because diesel givs better results for mpg!

Please stop making up crap. Diesels get excellent fuel economy with very good power and clean emmisons very soon.

I'll take on a Prius with my '06 Jetta TDI on the hwy for fuel economy. Bring it on. Any time; any place. I may win, or I may lose, but--in either case--I'll prove the worth of diesel power. And I'll run B20 (20% biodiesel). Yes, my Jetta emits much more soot, but that is because the EPA has dragged their buts on mandating cleaner fuels; not a weakness of diesel technologies.

I'll take on a Civic Hybrid as well. My TDI is broken in and is getting me 45, avg; more when all hwy. miles. And--I'm running B20.

I don't care if your Prius is "way cleaner". "Cleaner" in what way. I suppose you mean as the way our EPA has defined "Clean". I say my TDI is cleaner than a Bentley GT, compact car that gets 10 mpgs, and emits three times the greenhouse gases. Why don't you hybrid folks go attack those drivers? Not clean diesel advocates. The Bentley is allowed to go back up for sale in 2007, but not my TDI. There are dump trucks out there spewing 100s of times more soot than my car. There are people that take emission equipment off of gas cars. They are dirtier than my TDI.

There are people out there driving Prius's at 85 mph. They've been passing me in my TDI @ 65. Are they better than me because they drive a hybrid? Is it wrong for people to believe that there is more than one technology to help America reduce her dependence on foreign oil?

These hybrid proponents who act self righteous and want to validate themselves as "good people", and hate every other means to reduce fuel consumption, besides theirs, makes me sick!

I've only got one motor--an internal combustion engine--which really makes this argument invalid. Diesel proponents don't have to prove that diesel technology is superior to hybrid technologies. Hybrid means an electric motor helps with propulsion, and has nothing to do with whether you are using compression-ignition or spark ignition. In either case, compression-ignition is superior.

Still--with my one motor--I'll take on any new car in America on the hwy in fuel economy, save the Honda Insight.

If someone concludes that diesels do not reduce petroleum usage, then the only explaination is that person is playing tricks with numbers. The EPA estimates that a 1/3 market penetration of light-duty diesels in our vehicle fleet would reduce our petroleum consumption by 1.4 million barrels per day. That equals our current importation from Saudi Arabia. The petroleum savings is quite substantial, and the current manufacturing capacity of diesel engines, that could easily be quickly placed in all classes of American vehicles, makes such an endevour a huge opportunity for America. This is especially true since such a small part of our market is currently driving diesel power. The problem is that these opportunity is being constrained by artificial forces (the EPA). Hybrid technologies have nothing but costs and consmer perceptions holding them back. Diesel technologies deal with these same issues plus the fact that the regulatory agencies hold a bias against that technology.

Diesel fuel contains more petroleum than gasoline, but requires less energy to produce it. The amount of extra petroleum in the fuel is not that substantial, but the mpg savings are. Moreover, diesel engine does not equate to petroleum-based diesel fuels. There are many new fuels that do not contain petroleum coming out for diesel engines that can fuel these engines with no modifications; no loss in fuel economy or performance; and substantial improvements in emission and greenhouse scores. Biodiesel is one of those alternatives, and diesels do not have to be specially designed to accept these fuels. These same statements cannot be made concerning spark-ignition technologies.

huu76 - I don't think you understand the fuel situation.

Biodiesel is produced from plant oils and waste vegetable oils -- not petroleum. It has nothing to do with whether one uses LSD or ULSD. People who use biodiesel do so to reduce their personal consumption of petroleum. A cleaner environment is a secondary reason to use this fuel, since it contains no sulfur, reduces CO2 78% as a lifecyle, and reduces CO and PM as well. Biodiesel, however, does not reduce NOx, so this is a sticking point.

ULSD is produced from petroleum (stilll diesel fuel). The EPA is finally requiring that refiners use a process that removes more sulfur from the fuel. This process will remove some of the lubricity and energy from the fuel as well (1% energy loss). The purpose of ULSD fuel is to make it possible for diesel engine designers to install exhaust treatment devices that will enable them to meet tough emission rules that are toughest on substances that are the hardest for diesel tech. to control. In four years, starting in 2005, diesel autos must reduce PM--90% and NOx--90%, while some substances most associated with spark-igntion technologies go unchanged (CO is 3.4 grams per mile and the limit has not been reduced since 1989).

ULSD is now the standard diesel fuel in the nation; only 10

The point about the Bentley GT is not that they sell 100,000 of them, but the fact that our environmental policies allow for them to do so.

"No one forced Toyota/Honda/Ford to adopt hybrids."

No one is trying to force in diesels either, but some folks, like myself, are trying to get regulatory agencies to let them compete on a level playing field. The fact that diesels are superior in many emission categories but still must be as clean as gas technnologies in every other aspect is a bias in our regulatory stystem. This bias is keeping diesels out of America. There is no external market force keeping hybrids or gas-guzzlers out of America. This is the only reason diesels are not as successful in America as a fuel-saving technology as other technologies like gas-electric hybrid technologies.

We don't want subsidies or favor; just the right to exist without having to reduce NOx, 70% in just one year!