DETROIT AUTO SHOW EXCLUSIVE-Lexus loading up the cannon with 'F' Bombs?

ohh ahhh more v series

no, it TRANSCENDS the mediocre V.

it will be more an "Z" series, even tho' the official name is F series.

lexus is ONLY STARTING to bring to bear, the lessons from the hundreds of millions toyota has spent in various racing series. from craftsman truck, to F1.

You know the Lexus IS350 convertible sounds very interesting.

No it doesn't. The IS had a sharp design. Good convertibles have a smoother looking appearence, which aren't as noticeable.

A good way to overinflate their new "f" brand. They should keep it exclusive; only put it on the sedan.

You make no sense. I'm saying at first, not in the long run.

And as I've said many times before, I picked my username because:
a) it dosen't have Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, BMW in it.
b) it pays heritage to the 1964 Mustang, a car everybody can relate to liking a little bit.
c) the new mustang just happened to debut, and that payed heritage to the old stangs, and it wasn't a bad car itself.
The current Mustang GT is not a great car. It is simply a "good" car. my username does not praise that specific car, it praises all generations of a solid, american muscle car. (except the 2nd gen)

You mean the way Mercedes-Benz keeps it exclusive?

Yes, Mercedes ruined AMG by putting it on everything possible they could. Just keep it on the IS sedan,GS, and LS.
Audi at least tries to keep it exclusive, they won't sell the RS4 cabrio or avant here in North America, which is good.

let me rephrase that:
It's bad the RS4 cabrio and avant aren't here, but it's good that they are keeping it exclusive.

If anything. the coupe is the sportier and should have the F treatment, if they are not gonna offer it in the sedan. Just like the BMW E46, they had the M3 in coupe but not in sedan form.

Ok, so most people, when they think of a high and mighty sports car, they think along the lines of Porsche 911, Jag XKR, Maserati Coupé GT, BMW M3, M6, Corvette, Viper, Cl65, Cayman, etc. Actually, Edmunds lists 35 high performance coupes. They also list 36 high performance sedans. Those include top sellers such as the S4, 3,5, and 7 series BMW, 300c, C55 and CLS55, E55, and S55.
Audi sells more S4 sedans than convertibles. Detroit News says: "Mercedes-Benz brand sold 94,200 passenger cars in October worldwide, matching the figure from last year, driven in part by demand for its E- and S-class models." They sold more S AMG than CL AMG.

Sure, 85% of people, including me, would rather drive a performance coupe than a performance sedan, but the market is not a strong for them as they are for sedans. I'm sure BMW has sold more M5s than M6s.
If the ISF sedan sells well, sure, introduce the idea of a ISF coupe, and if they think it will sell, by all means, but personally, make the ISF sedan as perfect as it can before you try another model. Suddenly jumping in as a new guy and trying to copy BMW, Audi, Benz and others by introducing lots of models may work, but it very well may not at all. I'm not saying I want Lexus not to succeed, but they need to be very very careful about the new "F" so they don't screw it up.

Well at least Audi has thier marketing strategy down.

After all this fighting, we don't even know if the ISF will suceed! Maybe they are "too careful" with their money and make a slow, floppy car (probably not, though).

Nobody knows if sedans or coupes will work for Lexus.
I say START with sedans (they sell more) and if demand is good, put out the coupe. I'm not opposed to the ISF coupe as many of you seem to think, I'm opposed to the idea of them rushing the "F" brand.

Audi keeps every car in the US exclusive - just look at its sales!

Well said, Fabian555.

but if, say, only 100 people want the CLK63, but 2000 want the E63, then it isn't cost effective for them to build the CLK63, if only a few people want it.

BMW, Mercedes and Audi didn't say" Hey, lets start a high performance division. Lets start with five of our models". No. They all build up that division, and personally, I think what Lexus should do. Am am in total favor of a ISF coupe and convertible AT SOME POINT, but within a year of the sedan is way too soon imo. Wait a few after they intro the coupe and convertible, like BMW is doing w/ the M3. But before that they need to know if it would even sell.

Ok, I'm going to end this semi-pointless arguement.

I am not opposed to the Lexus "F"
I am not opposed to Lexus releasing an ISF coupe and convertible.
I am opposed to Lexus being over-confident, and trying to do what something that took other brands 20 years in 5. (but that is what Lexus and Toyota is all about.)
My advice is to start out slow and create a lot of anticipation for the ISF sedan, and then bam! hit us with the coupe and convertible after 2 years or so, after the ISF starts to cool down and sales drop for it. That way, their sales chart will be at a decent amount for a good number of years, as opposed to it shooting straight up and then falling. Timing is key.

Mercedes has made a name for AMG, so it's ok to expand their model range (except to the R-Cass and maybe the ML, which are totally pointless. Who needs a huge powerful boat like the R to drive onroad? The ocean, I see, but not on land) and I know it is different for Lexus, but starting out with a lot of models might not work for them. Maybe it will. Nobody knows for certain.

Waiting to see it soon!!

thank you.

And yes, "normal" people have no idea that there is such thing as the Lexus "F", because online places like this are the only places where people know it exists.
We should wait for the general public's reaction.

When Lexus have no "F1" performance division, you guys were keep bashing. After they finally do it, you guys are still keep bashing, saying doing too much too many too soon.

Yh but u 4got that they r rebadged from toyota which already has an F1 division, so ofcourse u can expect them to use their F1 technology on the IS-F

I think it is unlikely that Lexus will flood the market with too many new products - they never have in the past, despite their deep pockets. There is certainly an indication that the IS-F in sedan and coupe versions would sell well in Australia, especially if Lexus continue with their aggressive price-points. We have had a lot of inquiry about the car already.

It's always good to get the latest scoop from Agent 001....
There are two ways to look at this influx of new exciting products from Lexus. First, is to easily say that Lexus doesn't have the heritage, not known for performance, etc.....
The second way is, Lexus started out mostly in the US market, where it has done very well. But it realized later on that in order to get the attention of Europe and even in it's hometown of Japan, that it needed to inject more passion and performance into it's lineup. And that is exactly what Lexus is doing. Lexus fans will be very glad to see that Lexus has finally decided to play with the big boys. Toyota spent large sums of money to introduce Lexus in Japan, so they cannot afford to let their efforts go to waste. Since the introduction of the new GS, IS, and now LS sedans, it is obvious Lexus isn't playing around. They are really serious about being turning the Lexus name into a prestigious global brand. And they know to build brand awareness, Lexus has decided to enter the super sport sedan sedan segment, plus a high end sports car in the future. I can't believe a GS-F(and possibly LS-F) is under consideration even before the IS-F is released yet. Lexus usually goes slow with product intros....they really are going for the top.
I'm sure everyone is very anxious to see just how a Lexus super sports sedan will drive, myself included.
Now, if they would only bring the Supra back..........

Very astute and well presented post. I enjoyed reading this one.

Mitch

LS-f is a bit pointless. bmw doesn't make an m7, and why should lexus make their most refined cruiser a noisy beast? doesn't fit character.

Still, the car I would want to be driven in, (that I would never drive) would be the Town Car ext. lenght. It's big, comfy, smooth, and spacious, and gives me a VIP look. A person being driven around in a Benz/Bimmer/Audi/Lex/Jag/etc. could be anybody, but If you are driven in a Town Car, people know you are important, because who buys them except limo service? It's got all you want and need.
Sure, I'd pick a Benz/Bimmer/Audi/Lex/Jag to DRIVE, but to be driven in is a different point.

Multiple F cars being released close to each other is not an automatic problem for Lexus. As long as they market the F line correctly and with continued focus they will be fine.

The complete and utter failure of the "L-tuned" program was due in large part because there was barely any products being offered, and nobody knew about the few that were. The ad campaign seemed to miss most people living outside the black hole the ad firm chose to focus on.

Sounds like Lexus is just trying to avoid a similar fate this go round.

Wow!...this is crazy Lexus is really taking this thing seriously. I heard rumor of the IS-F/GS-F and now the LS-F too? wow! this incredible. I know it will be a blast for sure to drive one of Lexus IS-F/GS-F and LS-F. But I wonder how much will the IS-F cost above the IS350? or the GS-F above the GS430/460?

Now it would be really nice if Toyota bring back the Supra. Hopefully the Toyota FT-HS concept we all seen two weeks ago is hint of what the new Supra will look like.

Lexus

Lexus Rules ! he..he..he..

I would guess that the F models will be priced around 10% less than the equivalently specified BMW. That seems to have been the formula up until now. I hope they don't price themselves out of the market. They need give that added incentive for the German car owners to move into a Japanese car. It's what they've done with both the IS and GS450h.

Autospies said a while back that Lexus isn't aiming their guns at Benz anymore, but has now aimed it at BMW.

The Japanese historically, have always went with the winners. In 1989, Lexus aimed for Mercedes, which was easily #1 then. Over the years, although they built cars of the best quality and reliability, Lexus didn't seem to have any emotion in their cars.

Things are definitely changing. It seems Lexus hasn't abandoned Merc. It appears that Lexus is taking the best of both Mercedes AND BMW. Just take a look. The Lexus super flagship is named the LS600hL(L long wheelbase is from BMW). Mercedes had the S600 originally. Now a possible LS-F is in the works, something to finally compete with the Merc S65 AMG.

As a Lexus fan starting back in 2003, I never thought Lexus would go in the direction they have in such a short time. It seemed the Japanese just simply left the Germans alone in the super sports sedan category. In May of 2003 issue of Car and Driver, they tested ALL THE GERMAN SUPER SPORT sedans against each other. It was a kickass issue. I then recall reading a letter to Car and Driver in the August 2003 issue in which a reader asked and I'll quote him, "Why are Toyota/Honda leaving the Germans unchallenged in the super sports sedan segment? With the technology and R & D the Japanese possess, they can certainly match the Germans if they wanted to. The NSX proved that a decade ago." Well buddy, I think the answer to your question is coming real soon from Lexus.....finally! Let's hope they get it right this time around.

Im confused Lexus created the hybrid line of cars to have increased performance while not using as much gas as a non-hybrid would. I dont remember see on here but have heard form Lexus dealers that all models will have a hybrid counterpart in the next couple of year. So in creating a car with the same high performance but using more gas, arnt the baiscly creating 2 cars to compete with each other. ie.(GS450h and GS-F) Seems foolish to me.

don't put it beyond lexus to offer MULTIPLE alternatives.

instead of just one, they had two and now THREE models of 3.0/3.5 liter cars: the ES, GS, and IS. each is distinctively different in architecture.

the germans, on the other hand, offer several different SIZES. and then offer nearly ANY engine that will fit in almost any model. not better or worse, but a cheaper way than lexus' having 3 different body styles of 3.5l cars, and another 2 (soon 3) for 4.3/4.6l cars. (just cars, NOT counting suv models)

the japanese have the production system down, such that they can crank out 3, 4, ??? different models on THE SAME ASSEMBLY LINE.

what they offer in overseas markets, is JUST A FRACTION of the varied models offered in japan itself.

Is "F" the offical line now for Lexus' preformance car division? If so I love it! I was wondering how they were going to label their cars for some time now. IS500 sounds a more plain than IS-F