Volkswagen Unveils Cleanest TDI Engine Ever

I got news for you Mr. biased Toyota man,

This car looks better than any hybrid Toyota has ever released. A clean diesel, now that's the way to go. Hybrids are overrated. You know it, I know it, apparently, many American's don't.

Hybrid is overrated. Because there are going to be fuel alternatives, like flex fuels (cheap Vodka) & bio diesel. Hopely one day, Flux capcitor & Mr Fusion are in my car...

Will, what's so unique or wonderful about the styling of the GS Series?

It's got many styling cues from the jelly bean Taurus.

gs....one ugly car.
sorry will.
andbulldogz, the tdi has really good resale value. and in europe, diesels have way better resale than petrol.

Possibly, but you need to look at the energy/price ratio. If something costs 15% more, but delivers 20% more energy it is more efficient. Likewise you would have to compare the difference in mileage you get with gas as compared to diesel and see if the price increase is worth it.

Take for example the Jetta TDI. It delivers 42mpg high way vs 30mpg for its petrol counterpart. That is a 40% increase. Now in San Antonio for example unleaded is $2.17 and diesel is $2.49. That is only a 14.7% increase. So diesel is by far still the cheaper alternative.

jeffy210

Don't try to convince them with "math" that concept it foreign to them.

Its absolutely criminal that gas companies charge more for diesel than for gas, especially since they burn huge amounts of fuel (almost diesel) in the refineries to convert crude to gasoline (which is a totally synthetic product, whereas diesel requires very little processing [read cost] to produce).
Diesel costs less to make than gasoline, by a large factor.
THE ONLY REASON THEY CHARGE MORE IS THAT THEY DON'T WANT YOU BUYING A DIESEL VEHICLE! It would reduce fuel consumption, which would reduce sales and profits.

The gas companies aren't stupid. They just behave in a criminal manner in their conspiracy to deter diesel usage. The DOJ should be after them ... they are screwing the public and the planet by subsidizing gas sales on the backs of environmentally responsible diesel buyers!

Excellent, this new TDI will have around 140 horsepower and 240 lb-ft of torque. It will have great performance and be very fuel efficient. As you all saw in the MB GL 320 CDI video modern diesels are very quiet and powerful. Can't wait as this will be one awesome TDI.

Regarding diesel costing more. I've seen it now almost 60 cents higher in LA than regular gas. This, plus the inital cost premium of a diesel obviously offsets the higher mpg right now. I'm not syaing diesels have no place, but they are still not competitive with hybrids.

The hybrid's fuel is cheaper. The hybrid gets better mpg (comparing cars of equal size and power). And the hybrid is cleaner. The cleanest Bluetec still does not meet 5 state standards that the dirtiest gasoline engine vehicles must meet. This new future Volkswagen TDI purports to be able to MEET those standards, finally. But it doesnt say anything about greatly exceeding the starndards, as hybrids do.

As for style, only Hybrid haters could think the Prius is ugly. It is uniquely artistic in its style, unlike the bland Jetta.

The regular gasoline VW Jetta is just as clean as the Toyota Prius. In California there is no difference between the two, all gasoline cars can be equally squeaky clean. Both the gasoline Jetta (2.5) and the Prius are PZEV vehicles here.

If Toyota really cared about the environment, they would sell California emmsion (less emmisions) Prius in ALL states and not only in 5 states. ALL they care is about making money.

*sigh* some people just never learn. If you're going to pull the "gets better mpg" card at least put an * next to it...

we've already discussed time and again a hybrid only benefits drivers who are in stop-and-go or short commutes. Try driving highway constantly and see which engine gets the better gas mileage.

As for fuel being cheaper, prices change as easily as the wind. Remember when diesel was cheaper than gas? it can swing that way again.

Finally, as for style.... o_O you're kidding, right. It's artistic alright, just liked modern "art"

The Prius is "artistic"? You got to be kidding. It looks like a sh*tbox. Plain, dull, uninspiring and just plain hideous.

The Jetta isn't a looker either, but it looks more composed and better-designed than the Prius. Prius a work of art? That's the funniest thing I've heard all year.

"The regular gasoline VW Jetta is just as clean as the Toyota Prius" You have got to be kidding me. It may be as clean as other PZEVs, which means it meets SULEV standards, standards exceeded by the Prius.

As for you immature children criticising (and de-boosting, that's a joke) because I and many others actually like the styling of the Prius, get a life.

The Honda diesel won't be any cleaner than the VW diesel. The VW Diesel will be CLEANER THAN THE 2003 TOYOTA PRIUS. Yes that is true, the new TDI will be cleaner than ANY car built before 2004.

"Europeans only care about saving money, hence the popularity of diesel." ... what idiot wrote that?
Europeans are generally MUCH more car savvy. They buy cars based on their REAL attributes (performance, quality, environmental friendliness, etc.) and not based bogus ads on TV showing cars driving on roads with hydraulics tilting the curves, and all that CG crap that the Japanese auto-makers love.

The German euivalent of the Sierra club chose the most environmentally friendly sedan that money can buy. The Prius didn't win ... the VW Passat TDI did. They considered everything from environmental impact of the creation of the raw materials (the pollution from the smelting of the metals in those high-efficiency electric motors kill and maim hundreds of thousands of people ... oh yeah, they're in 3rd world countries ... never mind!) to the production of the car (including things like water-based paints ... don't worry, you won't see those on a Toyota ... they cost more) to the operation (and repair) of the car, to the recycling of it when its done.

What a concept, looking at the "big picture" ... rather than pretending that hybrids come from another planet, and then they (and their toxic battery packs) get shipped back to that other planet when they're done......

Also, huu76 check out how smoot and quiet a modern diesel is, take a look at this review (and videos)

http://www.autospies.com/news/Testdrove-a-2007-Mercedes-Benz-GL320-CDI-4Matic-11297/

how smooth and quiet.

And fueleconomy.gov has all of the evidence to compare the Califorian Jetta/Rabbit and the Prius. Exactly the same 9.5 out of 10 score.

There is no oil used at all, where did you get that? No filter changes are required either. And 25% fuel economy improvement is a major improvemnt for a more powerful engine.

WRONG. This 2.0 TDI doesn't use anything that needs to be refilled. VW says that is only needed for larger engines, I am sure that Honda will face similar problems most likely. And the EPA has basically approved the reffilable technology as well.

Exactly ... the Urea will be used in things like the Audi A8 4.0 TDI, which puts out so much power, it makes a Chrysler 300C Hemi look lame in comparison. Or the VW Touareg's 5.0 TDI V-10 twin turbo, which beats a Hemi Durango by over 1 second in 0-60 MPH time, even though the bigger VW is 1200 pounds HEAVIER than the Hemi Chrysler turd.

I agree about the UREA tank idea. Stupid idea in North America, where the population density is a fraction of Europe's ... too many gas stations to retro-fit and stock the "magic juice" ... although they are expecting that this is a 1x a year top-up ... so it could be done at the dealer, along with the annual service.

But the small engines will be totally self-contained.

And there are MANY other alternatives to the NOx reduction in Diesels. The US gasoline-biased emissions laws are spawning a small industry to improve diesel emissions, even though they pollute less than gas engines already.

Nope, that is the old VW TDI, the new one will be significantly better in all aspects. And I said that the current gasoline Jetta/Rabbit are just as clean as the current Toyota Prius and that the new TDI will be cleaner than the 2003 Toyota Prius and cleaner than any car built before 2004. Europeans might measure their sound differently and the new common rail TDI is sure to be quieter anyways. And the new Jetta TDI will get a 40% power increase and a 36% torque increase, the Jetta with the new TDI will have excellent performance. And you will only have to refill the AdBlue solution when the car is serviced, in other words only once per 10,000 miles.

What are you making up? The Jetta Rabbit with the 2.5-liter gasoline engine are just as clean as the Toyota Prius, that is a fact.

http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/E-VOLKSWAGEN-Jetta-07.htm

9.5 out of 10 for emissions.

And Prius

http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/E-TOYOTA-Prius-07.htm

9.5 out of 10 for emissions. Same score as the VW Jetta/Rabbit.

The 1.9 TDI is the old TDI, the European 2.0 TDI is the newer version. The one in this story is the common rail, brand new one.

huu76, funny you never responded to DieselRules fantastic post about enviromental impact in the entire car-cycle, from manufacture to vecicle recycling.

Looks like the Prius isn't from God's hand afterall.

You know, maybe you should stop bashing the Europeans and calling them idiots. They are actually some of the most car-aware out of any continent, and like DieselRules rightly stated, don't need billion-dollar marketing to sway their buying desision.

Over there bullshit-marketing is replaced with facts and experience.

Ever wonder why the Prius is such a flop over there? the 'benefits' just dont stack up.

Anyway, forget about me, get busy and re-read DieselRules' posts. His nme may suggest bias, but his comments are bullshit-free.

Try it.

Well said.

We all know Huu is a little bit slow to grasp reality.

huu76, funny you never responded to DieselRules fantastic post about environmental impact in the entire car-cycle, from manufacture to vehicle recycling.

Looks like the Prius isn't from God's hand after all.

You know, maybe you should stop bashing the Europeans and calling them idiots. They are actually some of the most car-aware out of any continent, and like DieselRules rightly stated, don't need billion-dollar marketing to sway their buying decision.

Over there bullshit-marketing is replaced with facts and experience.

Ever wonder why the Prius is such a flop over there? the 'benefits' just don't stack up.

Anyway, forget about me, get busy and re-read DieselRules' posts. His name may suggest bias, but his comments are bullshit-free.

Try it.

"The GS is the most attractive in its bracket.

A6:blah
S-Type:blah
E-Class:soso
5-Series:hell no
GS:best

Let me guess, next you'll flaunt around talking about your "design school." The "design school" still has alot left to teach you. Pay attention when you are in class!"

Oh, Will, totally unbiased. My assessment:

A6: Sleek, contemporary
S-Type: Disturbing
E-Class: Classy, elegant
5 Series: Aggressive
GS: Confused

The GS can't seem to choose between modern style and traditional class. As a fusion, the two don't work. The former model was taut, precise and didn't age quickly. The GS350 with the standard wheels already looks older than the former, last-gen GS300.

the GS would have a lot of junk in the trunk...if there was a trunk worth speaking of....
will it's a fat car. simple fact. they need to make the boot about 1 foot longer to balance the car properly. making it lower too would help, and editing the C-pillar to make it more sloping, like in an audi a6.
i like the old gs more too, looks almost classy.

Rupert, don't forget that the interior space of the GS is a complete joke. When I tried one at the local Lexus dealership, I was shocked at the lack of space. Even with the seat pushed back, the transmission tunnel took up a lot of precious space - same deal with the Lexus IS.

So again, anyone who praises these two cars for "interior space" and "best in class" is on crack or a relative of Will, Huu76, 2JZSoarer and all the other gussied up Toyota lovers.

the GS also severely lacks rear legroom due to the big seats (for big americans)

will, the s class isn't fat. while the wheelarches are a little OTT, the rest of the car is very much in proportion. the gs is not in proportion.
the cl is sleek. look at it from the side.

huu76. Get facts straight. Australian cars have giant car taxes. The Chrysler SRT-8 gets 14/20 mpg EPA fuel economy. The Audi A8 4.2 TDI is 18% more fuel efficient than the Lexus LS 460.

huu
I never said the Audi/VW V8 and V10 TDIs were economy cars. They aren't. They are top of the line luxury barges that just happen to outrun American barges while using less fuel!

The V-10 Touareg is a nice 4WD Limo, but I wouldn't want to pay for the fuel, even if it uses 1/2 what a Hemi Durango does.

Personally, I'd like the 5-cyl. TDI Touareg that they sell in Europe. It has 1/2 the engine of the V-10, but still has more torque than most V6 engines, and uses less fuel.

Even so, it will be thirsty in town ... it weighs 5,500 pounds. I like it, but I won't buy one, because its still too thirsty for me.

So, in terms of "practical cars", my 1st choice is an Audi A6 Quattro with V-6 TDI turbo-diesel. Its a good compromise on luxury, performance, and fuel economy. Its not the best in any 1 category, and I don't claim it is. (its also one of the top choices by the German law-enforcement personnel for Autobahn pursuit vehicle ... won't win drag races, but a missile on the highway)

Nope, the PZEV Jetta is sold in 5 states just like the PZEV Prius. And the Jetta in other states can be just as clean as the Prius in other states as well.

The difference in emmision between this VW TDI and the Toyota Prius (or the VW Jetta/Rabbit 2.5, as we know they are just as clean as the Prius) is very small. Like I said, the new TDI will be cleaner than the 2003 Toyota Prius and ANY vehicle built before the 2004 model year. That means that the new TDI will be cleaner than about 90% of all vehicles on the road. Is that good enough for you, the new TDI will be as clean as a gasoline powered vehicle. But everything else about the new TDI will be extra nice (power/fuel efficiency)

I'm sorry, are you comparing a future (2008?) car to a 2003 car? By the time any Euro diesel actually gets approved for 5 state emissions, Toyota will be on to the next generation hybrid. And let us again remember that the Prius is a mid-sized vehicle, so it should pollute more and consume more fuel than a compact Jetta, but of course it does not.

Did you read the full VW press release. The new TDI will be Tier 2 Bin 5. Which gets and EPA score of 6, all cars before 2004 MY get lower than 6 in the EPA emmision rating.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

Pick year, pick brand, pick car, look for EPA emission score. Can't give you a link as the website doesn't have link for every car. Feel free to browse the different emission ratings for different vehicles. Here is the full press release.

http://media.vw.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10026

"In the VW Jetta a new 2.0 litre Common Rail diesel engine with a nitrogen oxide reservoir catalytic converter was used, which complies to the Californian emission standard “Tier 2 / Bin 5”.

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/about.htm

Scroll down a bit to see the ratings.

Check out this TDI huu76.

http://www.autospies.com/news/Audi-Q7-V12-TDI-Concept-11378

Wow, you are becoming a liar. What the hell are you talking about. Why are you comparing an SUV to the 300C SRT8, only and idiot would do so. Show me a HYBRID FULL SIZE SUV THAT GETS O-62 MILES PER HOUR IN 5.5 SECONDS AND MANAGES 20 MPG. IN FACT THE AUDI Q7 TDI SUV IS MORE FUEL EFFICIENT THAN THE CHRYSLER 300 C SRT-8. The Jetta will not need Adblue, again your are lying, bigger diesel will but again Adblue is not a problem whatsovever. The 2.5 Jetta is a PZEV vehicle like the Toyota Prius. And I am saying that while the new Jetta TDI won't as clean as a few gasoline powered vehicles, it will be cleaner than any vehicle built before 2004, and those vehicles probably make up around 90% of all vehicles on the road, including your gas guzzling and polluting Jeep. So before going crazy we should get rid of around 200 million cars (including your Jeep) because they pollute a ton, WAY more than this new TDI. So no those standards aren't low at all as it will be clenaer than just about any vehicle on the road. The old vehicles on the road including your own Jeep pollute much, MUCH more than the new TDI. So it is pointless to pretend that you are a greeny and hype hybrids but forget that the new TDI will be cleaner than most vehicles on the road.

BTW, with particulate traps, diesels produce about the same if not LESS particular matter than gasoline engines.

http://bioage.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/emission_and_bluetec.png

The EPA is going crazy of NOx emissions (diesel's weak point) but those idiots still don't think that Co2 is an emission.

Okay, let's compare the A8 4.2 TDI to the Chrysler SRT-8 in their fuel economy, and let's throw the regular 300 C for good measure as well.

A8 4.2 TDI: 30 mpg (British combined) 249 grams of C02 per km 0-60 in 6 seconds per Audi UK website.

300 C 5.7 liter Hemi: 23 mpg (wagon gets better @ 25.2, I think the two are mixed up as the wagon has higher C02 listed than the sedan but better fuel economy) (British combined)
291 grams of C02 per km, 0-60 in 6.4 seconds per Chrysler UK website

SRT-8: 6.1-liter Hemi: 20.2 mpg (British combined) 330 grams of C02 per km, 0-60 in 5 seconds per Chrysler UK website

So what where you talking about again? I am confused? I am not sure what you were trying to get with the A8 4.2 TDI vs. the 300 C, you sure didn't make a point.

Again, the difference between the new Jetta TDI that is Bin 5 and the Prius or the PZEV Jetta or many other PZEV vehicle is not very big and that difference is nonexistant when compared to the fact that MOST (on the road today) cars/trucks pollute way more than the new Jetta TDI. You are making a big deal about a little difference (Bin 5 vs. Bin 2) but you don't understand that the cause of the problem is not affected by the VW Jetta TDI or the Prius. Like I said, there are millions of cars that make up most of the pollution that are gasoline powered and extra dirty. Just as my example that the VW Jetta TDI will be cleaner (twice better EPA emission number than) the 2003 Toyota Prius. What about a 1995 car? Your Jeep gets an EPA emission score of 2, the new Jetta TDI a 6, I think the drivers of the new Jetta TDI diesel shold be able to laught at your pollution, don't you think? So please calm down, the new Jetta TDIs won't harm the air one bit. Sure in the past diesels were significantly dirtier, but not anymore. If you really wanted to do something about the environment, then all cars built before 2004 MY should be crushed as they are all dirtier than a diesel, how embarassing. In fact there are gasoline powered vehicles on sale today that are dirtier. So should they be crushed as well?

Ok, huu76 chew on this. This aren't my words but they make lots of sense.

According to at least one source ( http://www.greendieseltechnolo...&link= ), diesel vehicles with DPFs emit about 0.3 mg/mile PM (i.e., even less than gasoline vehicles). If ALL light-duty vehicles were these DPF-equipped diesels, the annual U.S. national emission inventory from this source category (light-duty vehicles) would be about 1,000 tons. For reference, in 2002, the NEI from this source category was about 27,000 tons.

Even though vehicles certified as "AT-PZEV" clearly have extremely low vehicle-out emissions, they still require gasoline as a fuel (no diesel HEVs available yet). Gasoline is a VERY volatile substance. The EPA recently issued a notice of proposed rulemaking ( http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/ad...ument ) to reduce VOC emissions from the distribution of gasoline. According to the Federal Register notice (FR, November 9, 2006, page 66077), this gasoline distribution process releases annually 475,000 tons of VOCs and 35,500 tons of hazardous air pollutants, including 1300 tons of benzene (a known carcinogen) just from this process. The proposed action would reduce gasoline vapors (VOC) down to about 428,800 tons. Of course, diesel fuel has essentially no emissions of VOC during this process.

Even if you assume that a hypothetical 100% fleet of AT-PZEV hybrid vehicles would more that double the average fuel economy, that's still about 200K tons of gasoline vapor VOC emitted per year. Gasoline vapor is especially bad because not only is it highly reactive in the ozone (smog) production process (i.e., it rapidly contributes to high ozone levels), it eventually decomposes into formaldehyde (another carcinogen) and secondary organic aerosols (i.e., fine particulate matter). The SOA production from ~200K tons of gas vapor would be over 8000 tons. So that's 8 times the PM emitted from an entire LDV fleet of diesels (not even taking the directly emitted PM into account).

Again, in my opinion, a lot more information needs to be taken into account other than a cursory review of EPA's green vehicle guide to make any legitimate judgment about the environmental impacts of a specific vehicle line.

The links:

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/7c02ca8c86062a0f85257018004118a6/459912df91735b2f8525721a004c9771!OpenDocument

http://www.greendieseltechnology.com/News.asp?ID=418&link

What about that huu76.

No the EPA doesn't count CO2 as an emission. C02 is all about using less, fuel, bins don't matter so hybrids have an advantage there. C0 same thing as less fuel= less C0. The difference between N0x from a Bin 5 car (like the Jetta TDI) and a Bin 2 car is fairly small, 7 vs. 9 pounds. Hudrocarbons are also determined by fuel burned. Sure with PM there is a large difference with Bin 10 and Bin 2, but no example of Bin 2 vs. Bin 5, why?

As you see gasoline before it gets to your car does lots of polluting but diesel fuel doesn't, if that was counted, it would be interesting.

As you can see the difference is small between a TDI (just as clean as most cars) and the cleanest , PZEV vehicle for sale. Like I said older cars, like yours, pose a much higher danger with pollution than a new TDI. As long as someone can make a hot rod/drive muscle car with no catalytic converters llegaly, the entire argument agaisnt diesels has no point.

Did you see how much more fuel efficient the new V12 TDI running @ 2,000 bar injection pressure as compared to the V6 TDI running @ only 1,600 bar. Like I said in the Q7 the V12 engine is twice the size, 215% more power but only uses 13% more fuel.

The only reason the Prius is a midsize is because of cabin volume, because it is a wagon shape thing, so there is more volume.

I think everone will be very much pleasently surprised when the new TDI gets here, excellent power, excellent fuel economy, as clean as any other car, quiet and so on.

Diesels cut down oil use dramatically.

When the fake EPA ratings for hybrids fall, their barrel amounts will go up and the truth will be revealed compared to fuel efficient TDIs.

HYBRIDS AREN'T SO BAD!

Today, I passed a Prius that wasn't holding up traffic on the highway. It was actually keeping up with the cars in the slow lane. (ist time I've seen that in 5 years) Wow!

So its not the cars that limit them to 50 MPH ... Could it be the drivers trying to get close to those bogus EPA ratings???