Infiniti makes nice products so why don't they truly challenge BMW and Lexus?

You're what, 10 years old I'm going to guess

Where do all these crazy immature lexus fan boys keep coming from. I swear lexus must be the ten year old's car of choice. My advice for you Renlex(lexus mabey?)496 is to not make make other lexus fans look bad.

If One remembers just a few short years ago when the Company/Brand was on the brink of dissolution and break-up,...to come full-circle with product and corporate re-org to today is nothing short of Marvelous!!!

The biggest event auto enthusiast will have to watch is,.....where is Infiniti going in the next 5 years?

The superiority of the manufacturing/design process by keeping their vehicles produced in Japan will continue to allow them to grow in perception as not only a Japanese BMW fighter, but within the next 5 years you will see this company introduce a new flagship Q-45 that will make former loyalist Lexus LS-460 buyers leave the fold.
The greatest challenge Infiniti faces in this 5 year expansion of awareness and appeal of product and innovation is the ability to grow their smallish network of now 200 dealers,...into a grand design network of 500 stores that operate with the advanced philosophy of a new dealership paradigm.
Their consumer-based pricing policy and no haggle monroney offering a 6.5% mark-up will revolutionize the industry.
Consumers will flock to a dealership which makes less money,...doesnt quibble,...and produces a high quality luxury automobile.

It is exactly that reason,.....that I left Lexus to come be apart of the next transmutation in the car business.

Doctor Infiniti

That's like asking, "If Audi makes such great cars, why don't they sell as well as BMW or Mercedes in the US?"

It's about prestige. Infiniti and Audi both make great products, but for Audi, the recognition/marketing isn't there, and for Infiniti, it's about almost the same thing- but their interiors are also lacking.

001, this is a very weird article, BTW. I don't see the point of focusing on Infiniti and not ALL the brands who have been struggling to make it in the last few years.

Yes. Same as Acura, too. They make great cars but don't have as big of name as BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes.

Even though they sell twice as many cars as Lexus worldwide, and are approaching Mercedes to become the second-best-selling premium brand?

<<please don't bring bmw into this equation. they are nothing special and more like retarded company.>>

You are an idiot. I don't think anything else needs to be said.

You are nuts, how can you be that biased to say Lexus is the performance benchmark?? I'll give it a lot, but i absolutely will not give it that!

Infiniti is owned by nissan they almost went broke a few years ago their product has been very slow because of lack of funds.Toyota spends 26 million a day on R&D.
You can also lower your production costs with volume toyota sells 8.5 million cars a year world wide. Then there's marketing and dealer strength.

Lets go back in time to answer this question...

Infiniti circa 1989 failed to generate adequate sales because of the "rocks and trees" campaign. What the hell were they thinking?!?!?

Nissan's struggling financial situation during the late 1990's didn't help matters. Q45 got the nickname "Japanese Lincoln".

Enter G20 - marketed towards middle age professional woman - failed miserably.

Year 2000 roles along and Infiniti is near extinction...

They turn it around with the introduction of the G35 in 2003ish. Lucky!

Today many believe they are still just expensive Nissan's. And who the hell is Nissan anyway? Nissan doesn't have half the "name" that Honda and Toyota have thereby impacting sales of the Infiniti line.

Does Nissan/Infiniti have as many dealerships as Toyota/Lexus and BMW - I think not... Customers can't buy what they don't see right...

You are correct about many things however it was the I30 that kept Infiniti going long before the G35. Yes, the G35 did bring recognition to the Infiniti brand however it was the I30/35 that profit for the company. Infiniti is a great brand and tops lexus and performance as a drivers car. Give Infiniti a few more years and let them get the financial security that lexus and toyota have and we will all see the true potential of Nissan/Infiniti

I agree immensely. Part of Infiniti's near extinction in pre-2000 era can be attributed to bad, the wost, marketing campain and strategy as well as failure to foresee and realize what U.S. customers want. As a result, they always brought out mediocre products that did not attract buyer attention. I think that is why they are having such a difficult and slow recovery and catching up today.

Infiniti has lacked the marketing and refinement of Lexus and BMW. They are getting closer to BMW in the drive department but they need a touch more refinement and polish. They also need a better advertizing. Their new 3.5 engine is not as refined as Lexus and makes less torgue at a higher rpm. A recent test comparing the Acura TL,Infiniti G35 and Lexus IS 350 put the Infiniti 3rd due to it's lack of engine refinement and gearbox.This was done by Road and Track.

Completely agree, infiniti lacks refinment. Produce nice products, but all missing something that makes a premium brand premium. Sorry, and infiniti just doesnt deliver that same luxury feel an Audi or Merc does. And all you audi bashers, you dont know what your talking about. Have you sat in an A8, beautiful.

The article that Road and Track put together was absolutely a biase article. #1, the engine you say lacks refinement is the benchmark that manufactures base their engine against. That is according to Wards Automotive who have put that engine on their 10 Best every year the award has been out. I think that is 13 years. Road and Track also have been known to put softer performance over hard performance. I drove a 2006 TL, 2006 G35, and a 2007 IS250 and by far, the G35 had the best road manners. From a luxury stand point, I would say that all three cars were equal. Lastly, how can you really compare a front drive against 2 rear drivers.. I mean really!

#1, has the 3.5L Nissan V6 even been out for THIRTEEN YEARS?

#2, if I recall, the Toyota 3.5L (IS350) was on the Ward's list this year, but the Nisfiniti engine wasn't.

#3, you drove an IS250. You'd have to had driven an IS350 before you made your decision.

I root for Infiniti and really liked the last-gen G35, but the current G doesn't seem so appealing.

The 3.5l engine hasn't been out for 13 years it is the VQ engine and it had various displacements (I think it started with a 3.0l???).

A few reasons.

1. Nissan: Nissan’s branding track record is spotty and unguided, and it has spilled onto Infiniti. Something all of the top contenders have is a consistent philosophy applied to all of their cars, decade after decade (Or at least year after year for Lexus). Infiniti’s last M45 was a strange collage of classic American muscle car and modern luxury… successfully alienating everyone from the brand. That was a substantial branding blunder that Infiniti is still recovering from.
You may not agree with the other company’s philosophy either, but at least you know what you’re getting in return for signing your life away at the dealership.

2. Finally getting it: In my mind, Infiniti has only recently started to produce truly completive products; but they’re up against competing brands who have been at it for years. The last M was a mistake and the last G merely made them a brand to watch, but not yet a brand to consider; not for the masses anyway. The new models are impressive, but that only makes for two competing products… which leads me to…

3. They have no flagship. The Q doesn’t count; it’s the Rocky Balboa of the luxury world. Beyond outright sales, a worthy flagship weighs heavily on people’s perception of an entire brand. (This is an even bigger problem for Acura). A Q that actually competes with an LS would mean to people “Maybe they can make less expensive cars too…”

4. The Flipside: The FX is arguably too far ahead of its time, even Infiniti’s time. It also launched with an unapologetically cheap interior, and no real segment to fit into. Too car like for SUV people to SUV like for car people. It’s excluded from the media’s comparison tests, and perhaps partially the reason its excluded from people’s shopping lists. The interior has improved dramatically since launch, but not before souring everyone’s opinion of the car. In the meantime, this is another segment Infiniti is largely missing out on.

Agree for the most part except for your fourth point. The FX has not been left out of the media's tests; In fact it's been tested against the Cayenne, ML, X5 and it beat them all in overall competitions.
About being ahead of its time, you're right. but that's not a bad thing, that just means that the others have along ways to catch up.

Everyone here is right in what they are saying. The only thing I would like to add is perception and passion. Infiniti only makes one car that is in league with the other's designs and that is the M. The europeon's cars look like they are well put together, with an almost chisled look to them. They look as though they have substance.Nissan has not done a very good job at conveying this in their designs. Whenever I see any Nissan design, I always think how plain they look. The new Maxima does a decent job with that from the rear 3/4 to the front and then they ugly up the front. Nissan's have always designed their vehicles and wheels this way. It is almost like the lead designer has been the same for decades. So the main problems are their cars lack passion and a cohesive design.

Quality is so - so, there lineup is stagnant with old product and their styling is not evolving with the best in class.

I do see the G35 as a great value but it can get expensive when applying basic options. What they really need is a Halo car. Something that will truly take them to the next level.

To achieve premium status, Infiniti needs a true flagship. One which can compete in every way against it's competitors (performance, styling, inovation, QUALITY!!!) Also needs to undercut competion in price just a bit (ie LS)

Its the Infiniti line up itself, ranging from quality first and failed products, e.g. Q45 was never successful because of its look, the old M was an old model actually that was brought into the US, the same with the current M, it was some 2 years old when it made it to our shores. Besides that the build quality of Infiniti wouldn't even be compared to Lexus.
Remember the old Q45, it started with a 4.5 V8, then went down to 4.3 V8 (or 4.2) then back again to 4.5 with the current model, the flagship of Infiniti failed that makes its other models to be stained. The only successful Infiniti models are the G (coupe/sedan). Other than that, they lack design and quality. The one thing I like about Infiniti cars is their handling, I should say this about all of Nissan's line up. Compared to Toyota/Lexus their steering tends to the softer side.

The current M was designed with the American market in mind. It was released in Japan about the same time as it was released in the US. I wanna say that it was actually in the US first.

I think the main reson is "Infiniti has lacked the marketing and refinement of Lexus and BMW"
G35, M and FX lack refinement, even the new G35.

One more point to add to the "What is Infiniti missing and what are BMW and Lexus doing right" discussion...

:::::::::::::::CONSISTENCY:::::::::::::::::::

BMW has been consistent in providing the product line that speaks to what their brand is all about - and they have been doing this for over 25 years. Design wise since the 1930's BMW has used the distinctive radiator grill split down the middle - now that's consistent design I might add. These are reasons why BMW is the BEST selling luxury car in the US.

Infiniti lacks CONSISTENCY - they have only been around since 1989 and were on the verge of extinction 6 years ago.

In December of 2006 the G35 sold 6500 Sedans. (Oh and the coupe added another 2000 for Dec)
In December of 2006 the IS350 and IS350 reported its best ever Sales of 5,538

Now who is getting recognition. Which one does the public think is a better car?

You have to give the IS 'props' though. It went from completely non-competitive to almost the same sales as the G35 in 1 year. This is coming from a G35 owner. I'd even consider the new IS if it had the ability to turn off all the electronics when you want to. A little pricey though....

I really do think the lack of a flagship car is hurting their image. The M is quite nice, but if they can bring out a new Q that would knock people's socks off Infiniti would have a more complete/compelling lineup.

If it were me, I would not focus on targets like the 7, S-Class, A8, or LS. Instead I would aim for the styling of the current Maserati sedan. Something were looks and power come before everything else. Practicality can be less important since it is already offered by the competition.

I also think Nissan made a mistake in not bringing the GTR to the states wearing an Infiniti badge. There is nothing like a halo car to generate some brand excitement.

You think Infiniti should be a kind of "exotic" luxury offering from Japan, something even more extravagantly sporty than BMW?

I'd have to disagree here.

If they want more sales, they have to stay relatively mainstream. They don't really need more sales- which is why I don't understand the point of this article, they're not struggling any more -but if they want to breach Lexus and become the #2 in the US (which won't happen any time soon), they need a mainstream, eye-catching, sporty sedan with a pinch of luxury to lure in 5 Series buyers looking for something different. People like that.

Infiniti makes nice products so why don't they truly challenge BMW and Lexus?

That is a very good question. For me, Infiniti's entire advertising campaign gives too much credit toward BMW. BMW literally gets free advertisement from them. Have you guys and gals noticed most if not all of Infiniti's commercials end with a slanted BMW slogan?? In my opinion that's just not the answer to make head way against BMW. Infiniti makes a great product, and the writers are saying wonderful things about the G35 and M35/45. They should let their product speak for itself. If they continue to build their cars like they are doing people will convert. I believe the reason why the masses have not convert to Infiniti is because BMW still does the little things right when comes to handling and performance. But those little things that BMW does right shouldn't cost us 10K more than a G35 sport. Which for a number of people is simply too much. Infiniti has done the hard part they just need to fix the small things that driving enthusiasts looks for. Has for making head way against Lexus. For the driving enthusiasts, Infiniti has surpassed Lexus in handling and performance. Why in the world would someone buy a IS350 over G35??

Oh, gee, I don't know. Maybe because they have higher quality. Or maybe because they are more luxurious but still sporty. Maybe, just maybe, it's because people prefer Lexus over Infiniti.

I have also thought Infiniti in a way or another is in competition with the Lexus and BMW. For example, their G35 compete with the BMW 335i and the Lexus IS350. Their M35/45 compete with BMW 5-Series and the Lexus GS330/GS430.

Lexus

In my opinion, Infiniti is trying too hard to compare with Lexus and BMW and are taking short cuts to get there. They need to focus more on quality instead of speed and power. Lexus and BMW are great cars because they've spent time developing their models over time. Infiniti designers woke up one day and decided to compete with them and skipped too many steps to try and get there. If they can improve majorly on quality, I think they'll get there, but right now, the interior is cheap and uncomfortable.

Yes, the large Nissan trucks (Titan, Armada, QX56) are not reliable machines.

Ahh, you just reminded me how much I love the S550. Notoriously harsh Jeremy Clarkson said (in TopGear magazine): "A Beethoven's Ninth Symphony of a car. Powerful, uplifting, awesome, beautiful, refined and, at times, surprisingly subtle. In short, a real masterpiece. At Mercedes, biggest is best."

Infiniti does make very nice products. Their driving dynamics are very BMW like. However, after sitting inside the new G35, the first thing I noticed was that Lexus, Audi and even BMW have a better interior. The A4, 3 series, IS, are better choices.

Infiniti also has a nameplate that is dragging them down. I remember in 2001 I heard an ad for Infiniti with the slogan "Infiniti...Affordable Luxury."

I like g35 a lot.Really nice product. Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znaXvNnbrAQ

What, Renlex, that is a stupid assumption you are making. Come on its not even the best to come out of japan, look at the STi and the EVO. And as far as luxury goes the interior is distasteful, i would much rather have the next cts interior.

When Infiniti gets their act together; in a couple of years. Lexus would most likely by then provide cars with a more enthusiasts mindset (sold as an option). As you see can that Lexus is addressing issues that people complain about(looks, driving dynamics, variety). Lexus have a long way to go, but they will be ahead of Infiniti no matter what.

I have been the proud owner of a 2006 M45 sport for about a year and a half. I have put on over 26000 miles and love the car as much as day one. I have friends that Have all the German competitors and take pride that my car does not visit the dealership for anything other than routine maintenence. The car is the best car for the money and I have been lucky enough to drive some of the most exotic cars in the world. I have friends that have Mercedes E class and a Lexus GS and they are both impressed with my car. Yeah some might look at it as a Spiced up Nissan all I have to do is say drive it! It is by far the best infiniti ever made and it will change your view point. As far as the other Infiniti cars the new G35 seems very nice but I am not overall a Infiniti lover. The M class rocks!!

Before I became an Infiniti lover I was a Nissan lover purely because they've always concentrated on the sports segment, and I love speed. Before Nissan almost went bankrupt they had proyects like the 1 million dollar R390, Nismo 400R, both of which were production cars among many others. They were also fearced competitors of the LeMans 24 hour car race. They are finally trying to come back to those roots but are being alot more careful not to fail again.
What does infiniti need now? Although they are bringing cars that concentrate on performance, they need to bring one that concentrates on the luxury segment. THEY NEED AN ICON, one that says luxury whenever seen. For example, the SC430 from lexus; this car is purely luxury that performs like *SH1T* compared to their competitors. Nevertheless, this car was bought like crazy because of its luxury.
Now I am not saying that infiniti needs to build a peace of shit luxury car, but they simply need an icon. Afterall they are trying to compete in the luxury segment so building something that will say luxury all over it wont hurt, but dont forget about the roots either.

Hey montyz81 youleft out some important numbers for dec.
First of all the is250,and 350, are bringing all the money. The g35's ary buying business with low money factors they would never sell at full sticker like the lexus is's did. dec results is250&350 5288 units.Don't forget in the same price segment is the es350@8,736 units. The two car stragety sold 14,024 units even beat the unbeatable 3 series who sold 13,164 units. Bmw is also buying business with residuals so high they will lose millions when these leases are over.

Two cars to outbeat one?? You sound like a Pro, man. Check your self. The ES runs on a complete different class than the IS, G or 3 series. With the same price maybe, but that's about it. You might wanna say that it's toyota's way to sell more Camrys, maybe then you'll sound like a Pro.

I’m tired of all these people bashing Nissan/Infiniti. Lexus is truly over rated, it is not what most people think it is. Yes, they may have been very reliable and still are however lately they have had more recalls then any other Japanese auto maker. The way I see it is that if Lexus could offer everything from performance to Luxury then they would simply because of all the financial backbone they have. They are if I am not mistaking the most profitable auto maker. They have a lot of money to spend on research and development but they don’t. Infiniti has been beating and still is in the performance line with Lexus. Before anybody goes on to tell me that the IS350 will beat the G35 in a straight line, don’t bother. Straight line acceleration does not sum up performance. If anyone takes there cars out to the track then they cane relate to a drivers car. I’m not biased however I have driven both the new G and IS on the track and I can say that the G35 is overall a better performance car. The IS nor the GS have the road feel and control as do the G and M. I can however say that Lexus is ahead in terms of refinement and quality. Infiniti and Nissan are slowly catching up with their interiors. Lexus has great advertisement and tricks morons into thinking that whatever they do is the first available in the auto industry or is better they anybody else. They advertise a tire deflation system as though they are so ahead of their time. Along with that they advertise their self parking system as they created the damn thing. NO, BMW beat you too it several years ago in the European market and has much more advanced system.

As Ron Burgundy said in Anchorman..."Well that really got out of hand quickly"...I can definitely add valid comment having owned an Acura TL-S & TSX and Audi A4 S-line - all since 2001...My friend just bought the new 2007 G35x (which I've driven quite a bit) and Ican say right now - NO ONE touches the Infiniti G-Series for the value/performance equation...the previous G Sedan had a gussied up Nissan interior but the new G is world class in all areas...In the $35K range not even Acura (with a FWD only platform) can touch the G...Lexus is overpriced, Audi is overpriced and BMW is WAY overpriced...Drive a G35 back to back with a 330i...when you take the roughly $5K-$7K difference the Bimmer will cost you for less performance, less imenities and less reliability...it's no contest...The Ultimate Driving Machine is a great slogan that has worked well for BMW and they are fun to drive...but realistically the gap isn't "closing"...it's closed...

Lexus interiors are overrated.

IS interior only = A4, after being on the market for four years

GS < E and A6

LS < A8, S-Class and even the 7 Series feel more "special" on the inside

RX < X5, Range Rover Sport, Touareg

GX < Q7, GL

LX < Range Rover (but this is my favorite Lexus interior)

SC < 6 Series, SL, XK

They need to improve their quality, and stop the cost-cutting. The new models from Nissan/Infiniti look like slighty redone versions of the previous ones.

Once Infiniti releases next gen Q as a serious luxury/performance Flagship vehicle then there image will be upgraded. Although the upcoming GT-R will be branded Nissan when it hits NA(racing roots,tradition,heritage connected with Nissan branding)Infiniti WILL release ultra-performance version of said car above next gen G SportCoupe! Once Infiniti releases these two very important vehicles as their true iconic Flagship and Halo vehicles the perception of them as a prestigious luxury automaker will instantly change.

Face it its over for anyone who challenges tmc/lexus. Its like fifty years ago when toyota first got to the U.S. no one took them serious and look at whats happening their putting ford out of business,an gm is next. I'm not happy about it but its happening.Look at Lexus,I was selling BMW at the time, and said that their was no way Lexus would hold up against the German cars. Then only ten years later they were #1 and have been for the last six years. Say anything you want but you are witinessing total domination again.

Here's the thing, first of all, Lexus caters to a completely different audience than BMW or Infiniti. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, Infiniti are very good cars, they drive well, and are designed aggressively, and the tech is good. The problem is BMW's drive is also amazing (in my opinion, better), and the cars are way more refined. Infiniti's lack refinement, it still kind of feels like an upmarket Nissan. While Infiniti interiors are designed well, interior material quality is still spotty, whereas BMW's fit and finish and refinement is excellent. Infiniti's are great cars, but with BMW in the mix the bar is set pretty high. I have respect for Infinitis, but if I was choosing between a G35 or a 3 Series, I'll take a 3 Series, even if it costs a little more. Infiniti shouldn't worry about Lexus as much, people looking to buy a Lexus are not looking at BMWs. Please... Lexus's are not for people who like to drive.

In response to LexusAdmirer's comments (1/28 at 1:00am): I highly doubt he has compared a NEW 2007 G35 vs. an IS side by side...yes, the Lexus interior is nice but there are cost cutting measures taken by Lexus (believe it or not)...for example the door threshold trim on most IS trim levels is plastic without aluminum inserts (even a $27K Acura TSX has real aluminum trim on all four entry ways). When you compare it to Audi, the IS is close but still not at the same level of interior refinement & seam tightness...Back to the new G...excellent ("Lexus-like" if we must phrase it that way) interior - real aluminum (or wood) just like the big boyz, no skimping on the door thresholds and very premium leather (better than Audi or Acura IMO)...this is probably an argument most easily seen at a mid-to-large size auto show (where all the makes are present)...I'm not even going to get into mechanicals of the G vs. its competitors - but having driven all the vehicles talked about...the Infiniti and BMW argument by MObar above is valid, although I'm not so sure BMW is more refined...I even feel that driven back-to-back my 2006 A4 3.2 S-line is more refined than the 2007 330i and 328xi I drove recently. That's my opinion...and I guess everyone has their own perspective...

gtr35
So what do you think a g35 is, its nothing but an altima,maxima,350z. Every mfg. shares platforms its like a slab for a house that doesn't mean any thing.It's the rest of the car that counts, engine trans. and overall quality of materials used.Now who sounds like a pro?

Poor infiniti, I used to work for them, they lack the consistancy and marketing support from nissan. I'm sure some of you remember the story about the infiniti store in Monterey CA closing, Well an Infiniti store that opened a year ago in the San Francisco bay area is already being closed down

Hey so-called autopro,FYI the G35 IS NOT an Altima or a Maxima. The G is based on FM platform, which it shares with 350Z,FX and M models. The Altima and Maxima are FWD while FM platform cars are RWD. They may share similar design language but from drivetrain dynamics they are worlds apart. By the way, you do not sound like a pro...but you do sound like an envious hater.