L'Équipe: Audi A8 4.2 vs BMW 750i vs Jaguar XJ8 vs Lexus LS460 vs Mercedes S500

...as long as Lexus is the #1 in the U.S. Yes in the U.S. that where everything count....


WRONG

A global brand is first of all successful in its home market, then globally. Is Lexus successful in Japan? No. I don't see them as taking over the market there either, despite the good initial sales. And Europe is a different ballgame all together. Lexus has made zero impact in this market and offering uncompetitive products in this market means they'll never be a big player. What I mean with "uncompetitive" is the lack of cheaper trim levels, smaller engines etc.

Lexus can remain number one in the US, it won't make an impact for the brand globally. In fact it'll reinforce the notion that this is a brand designed for the North American market. Poor sales in Europe also support this.

S4cabriofoxone1, "as long as Lexus is #1 in the US"? BIASED? You think this article is BIASED?

Why is that always the excuse?

In that one article that the LS460L won in, did you hear us calling THAT biased?

And are you even American? I think not.

why is any article that says good things about lexus 100% accurate while any article that says negative things is "pure bias." you can't have it both ways. just accept that the LS is bought by 65 year olds and the others are more likely to be purchased by someone younger who still enjoys driving (not piloting a rolling sofa).

Interesting that the culture which has traditionally applauded soft riding vehicles (Citroen DS, CX, Peugeot 604, Renault) would not rate the Lexus more highly. I'd rather drive across a farm in the Lexus than in the BMW for example!

^ ?

the S-class gets a SOLID "Not Recommended" from CR due to crappy reliability record.

Dude is someone else using your profile?

whatever man, the S-class look like the Toyota camry from the front.



As a hardcore Toyota / Lexus fanboy, shouldn't this make you proud? Idiot.

I don't see how the S class looks even remotely similar to a Toyota Camry. I am no Mercedes expert, but I see an evolution of the last S class in the current one with a bit of Maybach rear thrown in.

Audi A8 4.2 Quattro:
0-100 km/h = 6.4 seconds
100-0 km/h braking distance: 51.3 meters

Lexus LS460:
0-100 km/h = 6.3 seconds
100-0 km/h braking distance: 67.3 meters

30+ hp does nothing, but it needs extra 52 feet to stop from 62 mph.

The new Lexus LS 460 is deadly good. Literally.

And the LS is last because of it's "soft suspension"?


Renlex, did you read the the whole summary? It lacks the dynamics of the Europeans and it has WEAK BRAKES. The poor braking probably resulted in it getting last place.

No, they said the S-Class is #1 because of its comfort, refinement and handling. It offers a combination of the three- something that the LS can't ever hope to match.

"S4Cabriofoxone1" I'm sorry but a 'real mans' car (how he likes to put it) comes with 8-cylinders or more.

Disagree with that? Fine mabye, but you can't dispute the fact that most women can't tell a top end Benz from a low-end Benz, so they're certainly not going to be ecstatic over a Skyline.

Even if they do know a thing or two about car's you'll still be explaining to them that you're car's underpinnings make up for the lack of interior refinement. I bought a used 04 Cherokee about a year ago with a pair of 22’s on it & took my girlfriend & her girlfriends out, all one of her friends would say was why didn’t you buy an Escalade with chrome wheels.

Chicks dig what they dig, there’s no convincing them otherwise, and what chicks dig are Escalades, Bimmers, Benz’s & Ferrari’s...not Skylines player.

Toyota should have equipped that barge with anchors.
An extra 3-4 car lengths to stop from 62mph is truly pathetic.

renlex, that's the only article that the LS has won in thus far.

In the other two, it's come in DEAD LAST.

If you Lex fans care about America so much, why don't you mention the American car magazines, in which the LS loses?

If anything, THAT article is biased, because all the other magazines seem to disagree with them!

I mean, really! Why is this biased? Give me one reason!

Hey "renlex495" I guess we should leave car comparisons up to you huh smarty pants? Forget these idiotic journalists who do this for a living right?

Luxury sedans should handle, especially when they're the size of a boat you don't want them to handle like a boat now do you? If you do, then you've come to the wrong site as we auto-enthusiasts are about driving.

I have own 4 classic cars from the 1960's (3 Cadillac Eldorados and 1 Lincoln Continental)


Oh spare us, Renlex.

Having read through your biased, uninformative post, it is easy to see that you're a kid with a Lexus / Toyota fetish. Before you can even think about "owning four classic automobiles", maybe you should learn how to spell properly first.

Spare us with your ramblings. This review seems fair. The Lexus LS is a fine car, we all know that, but it doesn't appeal to European tastes. End of story.

Oh, and even here in the US, the LS has been criticized for poor brakes. Are you going to dispute that?

Those numbers look suspect if you ask me. There was a video of how a Lexus LS 460 raced a BMW 7 series, Audi A8 and a Jaguar XJ on youtube. BMW was ahead of Lexus on the starting grid, but 3 laps later at the finish line hadn't gained anything at all. And the Jaguar was beat by all other cars by a lot.

And it seems most people have a bias towards the S class. It's like they'll say anything to make it seem that the S class is the winner. That's just what I've noticed. Maybe we should talk about the reliability of Mercedes recently (one of the worst in the world)? The Quality and reliability of Benz is seriously slipping, while Lexus has been #1 for like over a decade.

LOL!

i can already picture the ads: "Toro, the Ultimate Riding Mower!"

hank hills and friends will go totally GAGA over it!

There's no bias towards the S-Class! Are you that stupid?

There's a reason why it keeps winning!

It is HONESTLY the BEST CAR IN THIS CLASS. It offers luxury, style, refinement, power, and great handling in one package.

The 7 Series and A8 are missing the ultra-comfort ride, the LS is missing the handling dearly, and the XJ is missing the power.

I drove the new LS460 and LS460L at the taste of lexus. I also drove the BMW 750i and the MB S550. The lexus drove absolutely aweful. The BMW drove much better but the MB drove the best and looked the best too. Lexus never built a car that is worth buying (My parents own 3 lexus's) in my opinion. The handling, steering and performance is what makes a car good and that is where lexus falls short all of the time. The new IS-F is the only attempt by lexus to change that. And that car is hideous.

In a full-sized luxury sedan, wouldn't one place ambience and amenities slightly ahead of handling? If I were looking to toss a sedan through S-curves and sinuous passages I wouldn't exactly consider any saloon that weights more than 4,000 pounds and has a length that exceeds 200 inches.

But isn't it nice to know it's there? That you have the ultimate sedan that caters to you in every way- not just in luxury? That you really do have all of the luxuries, but you can also take on an M3 driver through a turn? That ride comfort isn't compromised for performance?

That's something the LS can't do. If Lexus tried to make it sporty, the comfort would be lost. Mercedes engineers are ingenious.

Here is one question,why do most of the rich people buy a Rolls Royce,we all know they handle like Sh*t we saw that on Top Gear,it's for luxury right!well the same goes for the LS460,someone show me where or when the hell did Lexus ever claim that the LS460 was a performance car!

correction made:
Here is one question,why do most of the rich people buy a Rolls Royce?we all know they handle like Sh*t,we saw that on Top Gear,it's for luxury right!well the same goes for the LS460,someone show me where or when the hell did Lexus ever claim that the LS460 was a performance car!

French!

Drive Renault or Peugeot!

Will got banged on the head...... but i like him better now, he is starting to make more sense.

Look what we have here! Even the so called outdated 7 series killed the lexus! Poor Lexus fans...

Will, the sad part is, YOU'RE RIGHT.

Nobody cares if their S-Class is in the shop twice a year.

These people ARE looking for the street cred, the desirability, the image.

And you talk about quality all the time. That is just SO vague! In your world, "quality" and "reliability" are synonomous. Well, they're not. EVERY car in this class has quality, even the old Infiniti Q45. The use of materials, the execution, the engineering- all make these cars quality products. Some just excel where others fail.

I agree with this article. The S class is much superior to any of the other cars, it is a winner in ever possible way. The Audi A8 is excellent too, however I was disappointed to see the Lexus last, it should have been third followed by the Jag and lastly the most disgusting Bimmer ever, the 7 Series.

Is it me or is "Will" acting differently? Sounds like he’s had a full on surgical brain transplant.

'renlex' your immature comments are the most annoying on this site...Only teenage girls make as much use of “LOL” as you do.

The funny thing is 'renlex' is stupid enough to fall for "Wills" sarcasm to the point he’s bashing the biggest Lexus fan out there. Now that's LOL smart one.

Also I wouldn't be laughing at buying the XJ over the LS considering this is the second review the Jag has edged out the LS in.

Will, you rally had a big brain surgery or you are someone else.

Agreed "Will", Agreed...'renlex' will sure be pissed off though.

Fabian555
First of all i want to know about the engine spec of the Lexus.Is it 380BHP or 343 BHP ?(beacuse in Middle east, Lexus LS460 which launched last month,has got a detuned version of 4.6l V8.It pumps out 343BHP.It also got a reworked Front Bumper).

I doubt France has also got the same detuned car ?

"The Lexus is a fine car but it lacks the dynamic capabilities of the Europeans"

End of story.
Comeon,grow up u (racists).Everyone can see/feel that it was preplanned/decided that whatever it is, Lexus will be placed last as it's not European.

Bloody French Magazine.

"A diesel engine option is non-existent"

How about an Hybird system non-existent in the other 4 cars.

ALL in ALL i dare anyone to find me a con in the New Lexus LS (versus it's competitors).Other than the poor brakes.

On other hand i will tell atleast 5 cons in the other 4 cars.

Stylings are subjective.


JUGNU----->THE CARMAN

Jugnu, the Europeans get the same cars as we do. The LS I suppose has the same horsepower rating in Europe as it does here. My guess is that the "slower acceleration" times for these cars is due to different gear ratios. European cars sent over to the US receive different gear ratios that are biased towards acceleration. In Europe I imagine, the gear ratios are biased towards achieving better fuel economy.

Will our European members correct me if I am wrong please. Thank you.

Also, diesels are a MUST in Europe. The Lexus LS hybrid won't be that efficient outside an urban environment because the conventional gasoline engine will take over - and it's thirsty. Lastly, the best-selling versions of these cars in Europe are diesels. The Mercedes S320 CDI, BMW 730d, Jaguar XJ8 2.7D and Audi A8 3.0 TDI are the BEST-SELLERS. The Lexus LS460 / LS460h won't be able to compete at all.

So what does the Lexus have what the S-class hasen't got?
And considering the other 3 are atleast 4 years old it isn't so hard to find something that they don't have opposed to the Lexus and the Merc.

diesel is absolutley essential. around 50% of all S class sales in the UK are 320cdi, just one of 6 engine options. and the hybrid system? since it will be very expensive there's no point. they should stick the GS hybrid system in there.
lexus has poor resale, very poor brand image (on par with Saab or Volvo), and the braking thing is WITH what americans call the touring package. european cars have as standard the better brakes and firmer suspension, the touring prius is a euro prius, touring package lexus a euro lexus. all our cars have firmer suspension, from a nissan murano to a range rover.
and these acceleration times are 0-62 mph, which makes a suprising difference to the time compared to 0-60.

So what does the Lexus have what the S-class hasen't got?


Poor brakes?

The S-class was built environmentally friendly and also got an award it was on top gear not even the Prius got that award.The S-class is always best of the best! And for quality or reliability it has slipped...but hey if u can afford it u don't mind it. Lexus LS was pathetic as I said 1990 model is the best lasted my uncle for 16 years b4 they replaced it.I love the Jag and i was surprised it beat the 7 series..

Same here. The Jaguar is possibly the most elegant and classy of all the cars tested here. It would be my second choice based on looks and character alone.

I own an S550 by the way and I am enjoying this car to the fullest. I love it. And the quality has been good too. Mercedes really improved in that regard big time.

You know, my XJ is my baby. I just love its interior. It has so much character, and I am biased towards interiors and the use of wood in them. That is just my aesthetic preference: I want my interior to look like it was made by Clive Christian.

I actually had the privilege of being able to look at one of the 148 Super V8 Portfolios that were made. It was very interesting, I hope that the fact that all 148 were immediatly accounted for prompts them to start doing such things more often. In addition, that they were $115,000.00 each signials a move upmarket, which I have read they intend to do. I am giddy like a little girl waiting for the redesign of the XJ.

I have always admired the S-Class. Its very understated classy. I will say that the one thing about the redesign I don't like is the odd protrusion of the dash under which is housed the COMMAND screen. There is something about its form that looks a little bit like an after thought. Other than that I am really impressed with it.

S4Cabriofoxone1,

i'm sorry to bug you but do you really talk like you're a 14 year old dreaming about cars? if you do talk like that please don't skip class and get some education because you can't be credible if you talk like that.

for example, what is lexury? you mean luxury?

another thing in response to what you said:
========
"Want to be a real man, drive a Nissan Skyline. Trust me I know what I'm saying;) chic dig man who drive Skyline."
========

keep in mind that a car don't make the person. the person makes the car. you can be driving a Lexus IS and look like a total moron or drive a Toyota Celica and look good. need to grow up buddy. welcome to the real world.

i hope you were being sarcastic talking this way

The question has been asked.

"What does the LS have that the S-Class hasn't?"

Well, the Lexus fans are going to say, "EIGHT-SPEED TRANSMISSION!" and "IT CAN PARK ITSELF!"

Well, I would think that having a car that brakes and handles well is more important than those.

Go S-Class!

Performance Dual fuel injection (direct- and port injection) Sequential multi-point electronic fuel injection
Eight-speed automatic transmission Seven-speed automatic transmission
Tighter turning circle:
35.4 ft. (LS 460)
36.0 ft. (LS 460L)
40.0 ft.
Available Variable Gear Ratio Steering (LS 460L) Not available
Better estimated city/highway fuel economy:
19/27 (LS 460)
18/27 (LS 460L) (TMC figures)
16/24 (EPA)
Lighter curb weight:
4,244 lbs. (LS 460)
4,332 lbs. (LS 460 L)
4,465 lbs.


Safety Driver and front passenger knee airbags (SRS) Not available
Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) Not available
Available High-Mu brakes with spiral-fin four-wheel ventilated rotors and optimized cooling characteristics for performance braking
(LS 460L only) Not available
High-Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps with dynamic auto-leveling and “Dual Swivel” Adaptive Front Lighting System (AFS) Bi-Xenon High Intensity Discharge low-and high-beam headlamps with automatic level control only
Available Advanced Parking Guidance System Not available
First aid and tool kits Not available


Luxury and Convenience Greater trunk capacity: 18.0 cu. ft. 16.3 cu. ft.
Standard SmartAccess with push-button start Optional Keyless Go
Standard 16-way power driver’s seat Standard 14-way power driver’s seat
Climate-controlled front seats (standard
LS 460L/available LS 460) Optional heated and active ventilated front seats
Available reclining rear right seat with adjustable ottoman and remote-operated shiatsu massaging seatback (LS 460L only) Not available
Available rear hide-away swivel table
(LS 460L only) Not available
Available rear cool box (LS 460L only) Not available
Two-Pod Electroluminescent Lexus Optitron Instrumentation with Thin Film Transistor (TFT) color multi-information display including separate odometer and trip meters, outside temperature, driving range, average/current fuel consumption, average speed and tire pressures; features bright-white Light Emitting Diode (LED) illumination Electronically-simulated analog speedometer, tachometer and fuel gauge; digital odometer and Touch Shift gear/mode selection display; multifunction display includes outside temperature, speedometer, maintenance system information; audio/navigation information; trip computer; and driver-programmable settings
Standard four-spoke wood and leather steering wheel (LS 460); standard four-spoke heated wood and leather power tilt-and-telescoping steering wheel (LS 460L) Standard leather-trimmed steering wheel; optional wood/leather steering wheel; optional heated steering wheel
Available 19-speaker, 450-watt Mark Levinson® Premium Surround Sound Audio System; six-disc, in-dash DVD/CD changer; Digital Signal Processing (DSP) and Automatic Sound Levelizer (ASL) No optional audio upgrade
Available Rear Seat Entertainment System (RSES) with nine-inch screen, remote-opera

Above is LS VS S550. Sorry.

I like how you try to play it down as being biased... why are Lexus fans so naive? Lexus doesn't always win. They WON'T always win. Some don't focus on luxury singularly- it's nice to have luxury and nimble handling in one package, am I wrong?

Excuses, excuses, excuses. That's all I hear, huu.

The S-Class is a better car to own than an LS460. Have you ever wondered why it costs so much more? Because it's better. It's simply the more capable vehicle. You're going to say luxury, reliability, quality... all the clichés. Well...

Luxury- S-Class has this in spades. Arguably, its interior is more stylish and cosetting than the Lexus's.

Reliability- I haven't heard much about it here. Now, you don't know the LS460 will be perfect here, either. With the new gizmos, there's always the off chance that it will be one of the first unreliable Leuxs cars.

Quality- Will mentions this a lot, but it's very vague. Define quality. Materials? The S-Class gets the nod there- instead of cheap plastic buttons like the LS, it makes use of machined aluminum. Reliability? No, I already mentioned that. Engineering? That would be an unfair comparison for the Lexus.

"it's french so it's a joke?" what a ridiculous, obnoxious comment. i happen to totally agree with the findings as they match my own opinion after driving 3 of the 5 cars myself.

and the french can't sell outside of europe? maybe not cars, but the world seems to think they are the arbiters of style (the world chases french luxury goods of every sort). so no surprise that they chose the S.

Is the S-Class beamed down from God himself?

It appears so.

Have a great day.

I've never seen and read that any french magazine talke positively about Japenees cars. This is absolutely famous in francophone region of europe among poeple who knows cars! On the otherhand Fabien i treid to find this site and the magazine. I cannot find it anywhere. Could you please send us the link? For poeple who don't beleive your article will be a prouve that this test exixte somewhere! I personnaly beleive you because i'm living in a french speaking country and we all know very well that french press and magazine don't like to talk much about positive points of japaneese cars. Again freinds, try yourself the car and do not trust 100% to those magazines. We all know today that car tests results are mostly patrimonial oriented !

perhaps because japanese luxury cars are souless appliances? super high quality appliances. but still just appliances.

I notice that the article referes to the S500 and not the S550. No one has even mentioned this. What's that about?
TagMan

They're the same car. The Europeans just find the suffix "500" so prestigious that they're still using it. Expect to see it in European articles regarding E550, CLK550, CLS550...

In Europe and Asia they get the 500 not 550 only USA gets 550. And 500 I think has been tuned down

no, we get 388hp.

This article is biased. Afterall, it was a European test. Europeans are threatened by Lexus and do all they can to put them down.

Wow, please shut up already. EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES!!! How is this article biased?

As other Lexus fans wouldn't fail to point out, the only article the LS460 has won so far has been a GERMAN article from a GERMAN website.

Nice try.

no, it's not biased against japanese cars. people aren't that stupid. they don't like it probably because lexus in europe has no reputation. brand image is zero. they are not regarded as prestigious at all. and the lack of a diesel makes their sales pathetic.
lexus is always veiwed as the value alternative, never as a proper competitor. it really is very different from the US.
and of course lexusis350, you make perfect sense. a french car magazine is biased against lexus because german car manufacturers are fearful of a company that sells as much (in europe) in a year as they do in 15 days.
great logic.

stop it. again, why is any article that's positive on lexus totally right and any article that's negative totally biased? your inferiority complex isn't pleasant.

How is this article biased, LexusIS350? The LS was designed for the North American market from the start. All Lexus does for Europe are a few modifications here and there, but they still don't offer the Europeans what they desire in a luxury car. A fully loaded luxury car might sell well in the US, but Europeans have a different psyche and care about other aspects and this is where Lexus utterly fails and doesn't deliver.


Oh, and I happened to agree with Gogo's view that your "new Lexus LS460" and you standing next to it with the sign is a photoshop. I let you go back then because I didn't want to embarrass you, but I guess now is a good time to make you aware that you're hardly a credible poster.

Your "they are biased" statement is proof of that.

Fabian555
Give the link man ?

BTW haters/ignorants just wait till the LS460 becomes the WORLD CAR OF YEAR.And then we will talk.


JUGNU----->THE CARMAN

We've already had our time as the world cars of the year... A6 won in 2005, 3 Series won last year.

I wouldn't be surprised if an Audi won this year, though. They have a one in five chance.

s4cab, u shouldnt talk, u and ur audi buddys r like the king of excuses too.

Brilliant sarcasm campaign.

^^ ^^

Another good point 'Will'....Another good point.

it's like good taste: you can't really define it, but you know it when you see it.

oh and the GS gives the driver no feedback (i.e. feel). rather than leaving the driver in control, the bionic brains modulate everything for you. i've driven the car back to back with a 5 series and they're not comparable.

I didn't mention "German feel" in my entire post. I stated all the facts.

"Feel" is the BMW argument, but it's a lot more tangible than you think. Drive, or even be driven, in an S550 and LS460L back-to-back-- there's a massive difference in handling, body roll...

Give me one comparison where the LS "tops every category", please.

"The S' interior is far from cutting edge, or even that good looking."

And the LS's interior is a joke. I expected a lot more from Lexus here. The LS looks, and feels, every bit as cheap as the IS250's interior. Although looks are subjective (and I feel the S-Class's interior looks as sumptuous as it is), the LS460's barrage of buttons isn't particularly attractive.

Let me put it this way: you like it because it's a Lexus. You're going to say, "You like the S-Class because it's a Mercedes." Wrong. I was not a Benz fan before their recent designs. The S-Class, CL-Class, CLS, SL and even updated E are all beautiful. I can easily point out interior faults of the last S-Class (ugly switchgear, fake-feeling (or actually fake) wood in some areas, lack of legroom for its size, drabness), but I can't find anything wrong with the S550's interior as of now.

Huu76,


Don't even bother trolling. Mercedes reliability is improving and the S class interior is among the best in its class.

I own a C230 V6 Mercedes and mine has been problem-free from the day I bought it. Couldn't be more happier with it.

who cares?

will im just curious why you bash the ls yet have a picture of one next to your username??

and im gettin tired of all these biased lux sedan comparisons where they hammer the ls for handling/performance/braking. If you want something sporty, buy a sports car. I'd rather have LUXURY and COMFORT. Why would you want to weave through cones in a 4000+lb car? Since when do luxury sedans have to be nimble? In my opinon, LUXURY is what a full size LUXURY car is all about-which lexus does perfectly.

luxury sedans need to be nimble, quick and make the driver feel confident and in control....if they want to sell anywhere but the US. americans love big, soft, comfy luxo sedans. the rest of the world wants more: that's why lexus does not sell well in europe or japan. lexus today is what cadillac was in the mid eighties. and as with cadillac, most of the world isn't interested.

He's being sarcastic. Why are Lexus fans so retarded? I can't believe you're all falling for it!

Although, it COULD be a hacker... I mean, my imposter, "S4cabriofoxone1", even has a picture of an S4 Cabriolet next to his name. He's a Lexus-lover.

Oh and, I'd rather have LUXURY, COMFORT and HANDLING.

Why is that you overlook that the S-Class is just as luxurious and comfortable, if not moreso, as the LS460? The handling is just an added bonus. The LS simply isn't as complete a car.

not surprising that this ranking (as well as all the performance stats) are nearly identical to car & driver's comparison test. the S-class is truly a remarkable car and it deserves the accolades.

perhaps a really old man.

I thought that in order to be a "real man" you had to drive a G35 or a "SKYLINE?" and now its the ultimate "LEXURY" car. I guess you're right, the LS is the ultimate lexury car and the s-class is the ultimate luxury car. Fair enough.. that ends it :-)

Will you freaken hipocrite,you have joined the snob brands,You had me convinced that you were a real Lexus fan,and not just another snob like these other German fan boys that don't even know what it is to be a true car enthusiast because they are too blinded by the image they get with German cars.Most of these guys wouldn't know a good car if it ran them over,damn badge whores!!

Will is being sarcastic.

have you actually driven the GS450h? it handles horribly (not that the E is amazing, but better than the GS). check out the below comparison test. though they go on and on about the refined GS interior, the nav and the quick acceleration, they fault it for "dismal dynamics."

also, get your facts right. in the comparison test the E550 pulled 4.8 to 60mph, the 550i at 5.2 and GS450h at 5.5. do share if you can find a COMPARISON test (the only valid kind) that shows the GS either out accelerating or out handling the germans. good luck.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/11738/2007-bmw-550i-vs-2007-infiniti-m45-sport-vs-2007-lexus-gs450h-vs-2007-mercedes-benz-e550.html

"When Lexus gives you feed back, ppl complain the ride's too rough or some other made-up excuse."

that's because they're unable to engineer both composed ride and great handling. they can only do one or the other. BMW and mercedes are simply better engineered vehicles. the lexus may have better leather, or a better sound system or be quieter. all great things when the car is parked. but not enough when it's in motion.

And yet, in the C & D comparison of them, the S550 beat the LS460L... and the A8L beat the LS460L... and the 750Li beat the LS460L... and the Super V8 beat the LS460L...

And you're comparing many times from different magazines, there. Aren't those the short-wheebase LS? If you find an S500 (the S500L is our S550) road test and a SWB LS460 test, and the LS has better performance numbers/higher ratings, then you're correct. But only then.

Wow, THANK YOU!!!

Some of your friends need serious help. They BELIEVED your comments!

And yes, see how childish the Lex fans are with boosting?

And yes, see how childish the Lex fans are with boosting?


Personally, this whole boosting stuff means little to me. It's all part of the bias that exists on this forum. A Lexus fan badmouths a German car and all the other Lexus fans boost him up (and vice versa).

What's the point of this boosting system anyway? People just boost their buddies and deboost the guys they hate. I personally don't care if I have a -10 or +27, it doesn't matter to me. These boosting points are worthless and irrelevant.

Make a negative comment about a German car, -8
Make a negative comment about Lexus, -14

Just shows there are more Lexus fans.Dominant category WINS.
Therefore Lexus WINS.

LEXUS FOR LIFE

JUGNU

Pretty lame logic you got there.

it's not a popularity contest.
and there's no correlation between popularity and good taste.
just like there's no correlation between money and good taste.

most affluent americans want a big, soft, comfy car. that's what they like...cadillacs circa 1985.

but not for me thanks. i'd like real innovation, original design and great handling.

it SIMPLY MEANS there are more lexus fans than german car fans.

to the latter, it means in ANY flame war, you guys are outnumbered. so just refrain from unjustly criticizing lexus. then you won't get YOUR favs criticized in retaliation. BIG time.

This flame war will never end. The Toyota company against the world.

Every large luxury saloon followed the footsteps of the s. Why? the ABS, 3 point seat belts, and SAT-NAV need I say more? it's easier to imitate than innovate. Merc has been the innovator in large saloons as far as i remember.

Lexus fanclub don't be flaming from this comment. Its the facts not excuses.

Agreed.

The S has always been the leader in this segment because it combines the attributes buyers in this class look for so well in one package.

I myself am leaning towards the Audi A8, but I cannot deny how balanced and class-leading the S class is.

The LS and others in this class are strong players, but let's face it, they're not as well rounded and shaped as the S class from Mercedes.

Another review where the new LS doesn't place first?

Well I guess Lexus might as well just cease production of the thing.

Oh wait. There are still many people who love the car and enjoy it for what it is, not what it isn't.

Carry on Lexus, carry on.

E320 CDI is not relevant. lexus says the GS450h is a performance sports sedan that competes with the E550 and 550i. that's why it was in this test. and it lost.

also, if you read the article you'll see that 'price' was a significant criteria. the M45 is a comparative bargain relative to the benz and bmw. if you take the $15,000 price advantage out of the weighting, the bmw clearly wins on performance. that's car and driver for you....always disclosing the criteria on which their decisions are based. those crazy journalists.

Lexus definetly is the most relaible and comftarble of the bunch with a Cadilac like soft suspension and weak brakes.Build on proven and refined copied German Technology.However if you want the latest in engenering,performance and breaking with a good balance between hendling and comfort but with less relaibility get a German car. 9 out of 10 new automotive technology inovations came from Germany not Japan.

WOW! Great flame war!

While I'm not a huge fan of the LOOKS of the MB S550, I still respect it for what it is. Looks are subjective I know, but it's simply not my cup of tea.

That being said..............here is where the flame war starts................,the S550 is what you drive when you are still working. Probably the only way you can afford the car, it's maintenance, and eventurally the repairs if you own it long enough.

The Lexus LS is what you drive when you retire and are living on a fixed income! Cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, and cheaper to repair (probably) when compared to the Benz. Since you no longer have the morning commute, or the rush to an airport, you probably don't care as much about performance either. All you have to do is make it to your tee time on time.

Comfort is about all you still care about at that point in life 'cause it's game over in terms of the rat race.

Does anyone know the ratio of retired people in the US vs working? I'll bet the numbers are pretty close but I wouldn't be surprised if retired people outnumber workers. I believe this is why Lexus has the reputation as an old person's car. Just look around your typical resort areas in FL, SC, and AZ. The're as common as a stop sign.

There are exceptions I guess like Mullaly over at Ford. How much longer do you think it'll be before he becomes "retired". After a week of being a car saleman he's bound to say screw this car business Sh%T!

Well...

I'm sure they all have mutliple cars...In fact last I looked, according to Forbes Bill Gates' primary car was a Porsche.

And Mel Gibson is insane.

Oh for goodness sake...

Exactly what percentage of the english language do you actually understand? I don't care if Lexus is this that or the other, but I do know that arguing it is this that or the other based upon the who or the number of people who purchase it is not a logical mechanism to determine the end. The specific name of the fallacy is argumentum ad populam. Because more people buy it does not make it better. You have already determined the end, and now are screaming at the too of your lungs like some harpy with your big letters, and clawing at the walls of rationality for support which they will not give you. The only reason you even mention all of these other people is that doing so speaks to your prejudices: not your mind. You have determined teh end, and now desire to seek paths to it. Your use of capitals is an attempt to do nothing but a)detract from the fact that you are not making a rational point, and b) to make it sufficiently difficult to read your comments.

If you think for a single momment that the people on this site cannot see right though you, and that you are not exposed through your comments, you are dearly mistaken my dear.

If you desire to be taken seriously at all, I suggest to you to commence with normal capitalization and to think before such time as you write. There are ways to argue such things.

I don't know if this will get through to you, but I hope it does. Maybe it won't, maybe next you will try to tell me that John D. Rockefeller Sr. had a Lexus. [wealthiest ever: $190 billion adj. for inflation]

That message is to Houstoncutie, sorry.

It has a lot to do with the comments here. Your statements have dictated a lot of what is said on here. My comment has more to do with what is going on here than Bill Gates does...

This article is about 5 separate cars. Not Lexus uniquely. You should not expect everyone to agree with you, nor should you expect them to respond positively to your obnoxious comments. That is what they are by the using caps is akin to screaming.

This leads me to believe one of two things either a) you are very young [of course I'm one to talk I am 23], something which your moniker suggests, this is possible, or b) you are another poster who has assumed a name in order to harangue your fellow posters, this too is possible. I honestly don't know, but I do know that your posts due to their nature has contributed little here.

That should be "have contibuted little"...writing on the fly is sometimes a pain...

MEMO TO HOUSTONCUTIE: YOU ARE FALSE!

Lexus is not the most favoured or most desirable premium auto company in the U.S. BMW is #1 for the 2nd year in a row behind Mercedes! I forgot in what annual NYSE report it can be found in.

Moreover, you are correct stating that Lexus is the #1 selling luxury brand in the U.S. That is irrelevant and worthless. Lexus is #1 selling because it is the least expensive luxury brand compared to BMW and Mercedes. American consumers appreciate value as paramount in any purchasing decision and economically that explains why there are more lexus' out on the streets than a BMW or Mercedes. They're more affordable! Selling more lexus' doesn't make it more desirable! So in summary: LEXUS IS NOT THE #1 FAVOURED/DESIRED LUXURY BRAND IN THE U.S.

P.S. STOP WRITING IN CAPITAL LETTERS! Its god damn annoying!

"P.S. STOP WRITING IN CAPITAL LETTERS! Its god damn annoying!"

I second the motion....

"...explains why there are more lexus' out on the streets than a BMW or Mercedes. They're more affordable!"

you're stretching. this is NOT the reason.
while its true lexus sales numbers are boosted by the ES and IS models, at the top of the respective lines, the lexus LS outsells the S and 7 in a ratio of 3:2:1.

there is also the factor of RELIABILITY. luxury car buyers tend to NOT appreciate the need for frequent dealer visits. unless they love "magic feel" and or perceived prestige more than the inconvenience.

A recent study by the California Automotive Institute of Technology found that 90% of Lexus buyers were gay.