Who is Consumer Reports's Biggest Loser

Screw consumer reports.

I wouldn't trust CR when purchasing a vacuum sweeper.

CR is only good for testing toasters and microwaves....and baby car seats (LOL).... Who cares what they think about cars! All the staff probably drive a Toyota Prius anyway.

Thank you for putting this article on AutoSpies, I would probably have missed it otherwise. I have forwarded a copy to many friends and colleagues - those who own Mercedes vehicles have been writing back to me that they are not surprised at the results, but could I please stop being so smug and Lexus and BMW!

They can't afford a Prius. Old Cressidas, maybe.

I'm confused. Is this based on ACTUAL reliability or PREDICTED reliability?

Predicted !
I surely hope C.R. are wrong about Mercedes. Not a fan, but I think M are great cars to drive, the new S and new C look stunning (the precedent ones were also ok at their beginnings). C.R. must be wrong !!!!

What do you think the're basing the predictions on? I'm sorry Mr Clinton, but please define the word "is" to me.

Sure it's predicted. But the prediction is, was, and always has been, based on past history of that particular make.

One thing people have to understand is that Consumer Reports is probably the only publication that bases its rankings objectively – I believe they actually purchase these vehicles and test the beejeezus out of them, then they gather information from technicians as well as car owners before they make their final recommendations.

I agree that the rankings probably do not take into account subjective factors such as the fun-to-drive aspect, “mage” and all that crap, but as far as measuring a vechicle’s reliability, resale value and customer satisfaction is concerned, I see nothing better than CR rankings.

I wouldn't listen to this, the article's from detroit news and they never have anything good to say unless it's about the big three. They'll always spin anything that is not about the big three to a negative angle.

Again, the C.R. must be wrong about MB.

"Unscheduled Shop Visits? One"

Well then that settles it. I NOW PROCLAIM MB TO BE THE BEST-BUILT VEHICLE MANUFACTURER IN THE WORLD!

Forget about all the reports to the contrary. Forget about the general consensus. If this one dude only brought his MB to the shop once, then MB must be the best.

I'm happy that you've had success with MB products. I happen to be a huge fan of MB who has owned their products for over 25 years. After the last two cars however, I will not even consider an MB product in the foreseeable future.

While your father has had a nice experience with his SL, I can promise you that it is the exception. My car has been so poor, I've stopped driving it the last two years of my lease.

If you think my experience is the rare one I suggest you look at the used SL's for sale online and check the histories of the cars. You would be shocked at the number of cars that have had over 20 title changes in their brief histories. I even sent my car through auction, I bought it back, and the prices are attrocious because anyone that knows anything about the 03 and newer model year SL's know that they are an electronic abortion. Anyone that would care to see the service records during the first two years of my lease are more than welcome if you drop me a note.

Sorry if some here don't like it, but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

If a company has built a product to a certain level of quality in the past, they are likely to continue to do the same in the future. Things can always change of course, but this is a logical conclusion to come to.

Yes, but Mercedes was not on the last place in the past ! What are you writing makes no sense !!!!
That "amount of certain quality in the past" was not that bad to put MB on the last place, was it !?!??!

And I also have to disagree about "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior". It might be true only if you don't know anything about the new cars. But if you see that the exact parts that were bad in the past, were replaced now with improved parts, then you must think the new car will have better reliability. I always though that C.R. knows what goes in the new cars different from the old ones and that's how they are predicting it, not just look on the old model and say the same for the new one. That is just stupid,cause the new cars might be 85% different parts inside!

Sorry, but that's not how things work. Consumer Reports, JD & Associates, etc. are all biased against the Europeans. German cars are just as reliable and have just as much quality as the Japanese.

Sources: Autospies Euro-car fans.

I must say, Will knows his facts.

Your worst nightmare.

No. Keep looking elsewhere for your manhood though. You'll find it one day, hopefully.

OK, let me put it differently.

If every morning you stepped out of your front door and got punched in the face by your neighbor, you would be a fool to be continually surpised by that happening as time goes by.

Consumer Reports has found Mercedes vehicles to be less reliable than others. They aren't going to say that the 2033 S Class is going to suck because of Mercedes issues in the 1980's. However, if the past two generations of C class cars were shown to be unreliable, then common sense says to expect the same with the next one.

It's not a question of "if" something could happen, but how likely it is to.

It would be like JackArsch posting something without being a prick, or EL34 posting something was truly funny. Sure it could happen, but what is the probability?

It's all about statistics people.

And really, if you wanted a turbo 911 but Consumer Reports (or anyone for that matter) gave it poor reviews, would you really give a damn?

I got banned for fighting a troll like you.

Instead of personally attacking me, try coming up with an actual argument next time...

JackArsch,

It is wrong to think that people are "lovers" just because they share an opinion.

I'm not going to think you are romantically involved with every other ignorant ass that posts here. It's just a personality trait you share with them.

"And I also have to disagree about "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior". It might be true only if you don't know anything about the new cars. But if you see that the exact parts that were bad in the past, were replaced now with improved parts, then you must think the new car will have better reliability. I always though that C.R. knows what goes in the new cars different from the old ones and that's how they are predicting it, not just look on the old model and say the same for the new one. That is just stupid,cause the new cars might be 85% different parts inside!"

Even if the car and its components were 100% different, the people that created it and the means that they use are exactly the same.

Mercedes is either unable to build as reliable a car as their competition does (unlikely), or they view or they view their current reliablity as acceptable.

drop the nasty commentary...or get out.

The more complicated a car, the more things can go wrong. MB owners trade off some reliability to have state-of-the-art technology.

Furthermore, there is more to a car than reliability. If this weren't true, people wouldn't buy Sub-Zero fridges. They also were ranked last by Consumer Reports against other brands.

Is your car an appliance?

The "state-of-the-art technology" argument no longer holds water. Otherwise, the Lexus LS would have dropped Lexus down a considerable amount as well.

I'm glad that NASA doesn't subscribe to the "lot's of technology excuses poor performance" mentality.

Except.... they do. Columbia/Challenger

There is a difference between stuff happening by accident (NASA), and having stuff happen be an acceptable part of your business model (Mercedes).

Clearly, you've never seen NASA's business model... The shuttle program is a mess and the shuttles problems were caused by accidents as much as Mercedes'.

Maybe they should consult C R on ceramic tiles and foam wing panels.

Yeah but which one is more fun to drive. The Japanese can't seem to get that one right yet but they're close.

Do you know what the irony of this article is? If it said that Lexus got a big fat zero and a 1998 M-Class had fewer problems than a 2006 LS, everyone on here would say, "Well, Consumer Reports really knows their cars. They sure know what they're talking about. I totally agree." But since it's Mercedes they say are the weakest car, there's no chance in Hell that Consumer Reports could be right. Kind of hypocritical, isn't it?

I think people are more irritated by the article and the spin that is put on the information along with poorly inferred conclusions from the report.

See that's just it, if you replaced every word in this article from Mercedes to Lexus, everyone would say it was true. Even if it had poorly inferred conclusions.

actually people dismiss consume reports because it's rating are based entirely on reliability. this happens to be a major reasons why people purchase lexus appliances. and it's not a major purchase reason for mercedes or BMW...they'll tolerate lesse reliability for good design, fun and performance.

Just so you know, Lexus doesn't make appliances, they make cars; and they also make fine quality vehicles for a good price. That's why people buy them, reliability plays a small toll on why someone might buy from Lexus because generally, people buying in the luxury automarket can afford to pay for mechanical problems.

Honda Civic Coupe And Sedan
Base Price: $14,810
Number Of 2006-Model Recalls: 4

In the C.R. was reported as a great car, but in another reports it makes the top 5 of the most recalled cars. I have a civic and it's an ok car, but I don't know if I can trust the C.R. or not anymore.

MB finished 32nd out of 36 in last years CR results. Dieter....looks like only one way for the trend line to go. Be the hero! Sell off Chrysler and save MB. They will build you a shrine in the homeland!

"And really, if you wanted a turbo 911 but Consumer Reports (or anyone for that matter) gave it poor reviews, would you really give a damn?"

Exactly, answer! This is what some people on the site just can't seem to comprehend.

WE DON'T CARE WHAT CONSUMER REPORTS SAYS. WE STILL LOVE OUR CARS.

Thank you S4cabriofoxone!

I'd also like to add that everything is covered under warranty on my car to 50,000 miles, and I lease, so who cares?!

The boneheads at CR don't even have the Lexus ES350 or LS460.

Two cars I like!

You like the ES?

I once again question your sanity.

Or maybe it's my vision?

even though it sucks and has to be repaired every month, but you dont care you love your cars, right? lol.

My car has never been in the shop without it being scheduled maintenance.

accountants....now we understand the lexus buyer. quick get me a floppy disk and a personality bypass.

Well I'm not american or an europen person but THIS IS THE CONSUMER REPORT AT MY COUTRY: Old Cars that works: Mercedes, BMW, Jaguars, Audi, Some (very few) Cadillacs and Lincoln and other american cars. We are talking of cars with 10 to 30 years. In the Range of 0 to 10 years You will see a lot of japanesse, american or european cars, japanesse have the best reliabillty in electronics but a soon as they have more than 10 years all the other stuff will be rusted..and that's all for them. Yes at this moment the reliabilty of Japanesse electronics and engines is the best, but that is not enough I like keep high speeds, security and a powerful engine and that is coming from MB for me and even if I have to deal with some electronics glitches, I will. Yes Japanesse cars are getting better and that will bring me better products from anywhere in the world. Japanesse cars will keep their word: to last until your warranty expires.

Uhh, no.

My wife has a Japanese car and I would gladly buy her another.

My son drives a Honda Civic that I had originally bought for my daughter.

And wouldn't it be polite not to mention Hitler? Some on the site are Jewish...

In addition, I'm just tired of the same dribble from ignorant posters like yourself.

Weren't Germany and Japan allies in the 2nd World War? Hmmm, does anybody see the thread of commonality here?

Thank you for judging me. I appreciate it.

It's things like that that make you look immature.

Oh and, your addition of the phrase "no offense" was futile. You think I wouldn't be offended by that comment?

Now that I think of it, I shouldn't be offended by ignorant, anonymous posters, but honestly!

who really cares what consumer reports thinks about luxury or sports cars.

if reliability is your primary purchase criterion for cars, you'll love consumer reports.

if you care about design, style, innovation etc...consumer reports won't weigh too heavily in your purchase decision.

again, great publication for electronics and appliances, but not really for cars.

also, mercedes sells 1.2 million cars a year. so apparently, plenty of people don't make decisions based largely on reliability.

You know the Toyota Corrolla still hold the record for the most car sold right since it came out? Since it debute in 1966 more than million vechicles has been sold. I think that say something about Toyota.

this is a discussion about luxury cars. what relevance does an econo-box have here?

GM and ford have sold more cars than any other auto companies since they were founded in the early 20th century. what does that say about them? are we all going to buy their cars now? i don't think so.

make some relevant comments.

correction, more than 35 millions vechicles has been sold etc..

When I look at the list, it reminded me that Japanese cars is far "SUPERIOR" than German or the American. I'm not surprise at all that Japanese took top place in reliability.

Last year Cr claimed the Matrix a top choice and the pontiac version of it the Vibe was not recomended? I am confused! They are the same car arent they? Now on the front cover CR claim they are not biased! Who is paying them under the table behind closed doors? Then again they are occasionally correct.I heard about the toyota sludge a long time ago and CR never said a thing! Take CR with a grain of salt.

Exact same car...even built at the same plant. Obviously driven by different people though.

The last time I read an article on this here, "The King of 2006 recall" GM has the most recall. I belief they recall 90% of every single they have sold. Hmmm? it make me wonder who has better reliability? Sure Toyota has some problem but compare the defected vechicle to the number they sold. It very small if you compare it that way.

To everyone complaining about Mercedes, RELIABILITY issues have been RESOLVED as of the new generations, which include new S class, new ML, new GL, new CL...Mercedes is back on top being the most luxurious, reliable and prestigious carmaker in the world...

Keep dreaming, theman.

I love MB, but they definitely not have redeemed themselves completely.

Yet.

..."definitely HAVE NOT..."

I've downloaded from J.D.Powers website customer satisfaction reports from France,UK and Germany and i was surprised to see that MB is not on the top 5 in any of them.On the contrary,it's very low on the list.It's very surprising that not even Germans don't like it anymore.It's sad and i really hope they'll be back on track someday because it's unacceptable for one of the best luxury cars in the world.They owe it to their customers to put MB back on the top 5.

The new S class' reliability issues is a nightmare.
I have many friends who bought it, and only 1 of them was trouble free. But they dont really care about that. They dont buy a car based on CRs. They buy cars that they like.

I would simply like to state a few things about engineering in general. I have said it before, but there is something called engineered obsolescence. If you purchased something which never broke then you would probably never replace it. Things are made to fail sometimes. These are car companies and they do need to sell cars. Be that as it may, all things fail: it is inevitable. Things unintentionally fail by virtue of wear and by virtue of design by failure primarily.

I mention design because there are things which are predisposed to failure, relative to another solution by virtue of their design. For example, V engines relative to inline engines. A V configuration is predisposed to failure relative to an inline engine simply because that configuration induces moments about the axis of the crankshaft, meaning it has a tendency to try to corkscrew. This, of course, fatigues that component.

Having said that, it is true that the more complex a device the higher its propensity for some type of failure, simply because the amalgamation of each components propensity to fail; more components more likelihood of failure. However, this argument really does not work for cars. The most complex cars are not sufficiently more complex fundamentally. The ways in which these cars are more complex is computer technologies; these rarely fail themselves. They have no moving parts: from a thermodynamics standpoint there is little likelihood of failure barring manufactured defects.

A little note on Challenger: NASA was told it would fail. I have met Roger Boisjoly the man at Morton Thiokol who warned them it would fail: obviously they did not listen.

isnt that very reason why porshe and subaru use the boxer engine?

Which is by the way, a phenomenal powerplant. The trusty 'ol boxer engine, gotta love it.

What? So explain why Audi, VW and MB to name a few, have more electrical/computer problems than other makes. They do in fact have more "advanced" equipment" than alot of your other autos as well. They're not having mechanical breakdowns as much as my active cruise is sending off into space.

I thought consumer reports based it's information on consumers. I own a 2002 S class and I haven't had any mechanical problems. Electrical problems yes like a lot of other owners. If i was ever polled I'd be unhappy about the electrical problems but overall the car has been very good. As I always say though, I've had fewer problems w/ my 99 Q45.

I test drove a brand new S class and it broke down on the dealer's lot. I won't own a car that I can rely on.

MB has had a serious "defects issue" for years. That's common knowledge, and well documented. And yet, there is a market for MB. Driving one makes a statement of "having arrived, tastefully". It's a conspicuous badge of having the shekels to buy the club membership. And some people want that, in spite of the defects. Buyers have not aspired to own a Mercedes for its "design excellence" or "engineering superiority" for decades. Those values are long gone.

Similarly, BMW has its buyers, in spite of its imperfections: high defects, "polarizing" style, cheap looking interiors, and gadgets galore. But the ride! The BMW ride is what makes it a BMW!

And then there is Lexus. Luxurious. Comfortable. Reliable. Practical. The low defect numbers attract buyers who want a premium car, but also want a lack of breakdowns and fixes. They save a few coins as compared to a Mercedes, and they are willing to forgo the prestige of the MB brand, and the sportiness-by-association of BMW.

They are different cars, for different markets. Each being successful for what they are.

Lexus has openly stated that they want the BMW 3-class market. I am sure they will secure the "Asian version of a 3-class market" handily, but they won't take the BMW crown.