New technology coming to 2009 Mercedes E-Class to out Lexus, Lexus?

Damn, this car will be like flying a military jet.

Hey if Mercedes can't even make electronic brakes reliable how the **** are they going to pull this off without having stranded motorists?

If they can get all this stuff into the E Class and make it work properly then I will be impressed - but as a betting man, I'd say the odds are against!!!

LOL

Yes, agree. The title could have also said "Out Infiniti, Infiniti" with the land departure warning system, among other titles...

The LS is the only one to have an eye movement monitor...hence why they were in the headline...

001

Overlooked that!

The Lexus LS is the only one to have an eye monitor! This does not follow the typical Mercedes rules and regulations. The S-Class is suppose to represent the forefront of all technology to be implemented down through the rest of the line-up.

Its much more than for the flame war effect, its more of an effort to get people to think of the Lexus brand as innovators in safety technology by simply implying the fact...its all very calculated here on autospies. Why Lexus and not some other brand (come on, one technology, eye movement monitor and somehow Lexus is now THE SAFETY INNOVATOR to outclass?!!) and as was pointed out, how about Infinity? or Volvo, who are known as safety focused? Because any publicity is good publicity as it continues to reinforce the comparison of Lexus to Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc...The Lexus marketing machine has done a tremendous job to have gotten to this point, really...its not to say the cars arent great or don't deserve praise at times, I just find the 'force feeding' a bit much here.

001 didn't say that Lexus was all of the sudden the "innovators of safety" (where did that come from?). He simply was making an observation that the next-generation E-Class will share a feature which currently is exclusive only to Lexus. And Lexus is constantly compared to BMW, Audi and Mercedes simply because they are! I know the attitudes are totally different around this site, but when you ask the average person to name the most recognizable luxury automakers, all four of those brands come to people's minds.

I think the biggest cause of flame wars is when people who already do not particularly like a certain brand, get overly sensitive to a simple observation. I somewhat agree that Lexus does seem to get more attention on this site than other brands at times, but I believe it is because the anti-Lexus crowd is simply stubborn. Nowhere did 001 say or even imply that Lexus were the new innovators of safety. The title gets your attention, and makes you aware of one of the new technological advances that the next E-Class will have.

Yea, I was a bit skeptical before, about people making claims about the Lexus bias around here, but this headline kinda threw me off. Like it was said before, Mercedes has always been the innovator with their S-class, but I guess the Lexus eye movement detection is also good. But really, "Is the new E-class going to raise the safety bar once again." would have been the most appropriate title.

Surprised the S- is not getting it like Will said, but oh well, guess safety is not just for the richest of the rich. Although the E is pretty high up there.

Will, I do agree with the rest of your post, but...

"I somewhat agree that Lexus does seem to get more attention on this site than other brands at times, but I believe it is because the anti-Lexus crowd is simply stubborn."

The same goes to the pro-Lexus crowd; they're just as stubborn as us. If we weren't all stubborn, would we be biased at all?

Something to ponder.

I have the lane departure warning system on my FX and it definitely makes you a better highway driver. It also keeps you entertained as it's like a big game of Operation.

Will, he did say it, he IMPLIED it, strongly implied it which is just the same. Its like reading a headline on the National Inquirer..When you make a statement like that the intent is to imply a fact that is simply not the case which in turn causes the flame wars which this site is famous for. And the reason you justify it is this one technology out of a list of several? This makes for a reasonable title? Its just fuel on the fire...but I guess we would not be commenting on this thread at all if the title was "Next gen E class chock full of safety features" or even if you substituted Lexus with Volvo...

Nicely said Will.

Thanks for the post '001'. Did you know that the LS 460 won the International Bild Group's award for the "best new technical development of the year" for its Advanced Pre-Crash Safety System (APCS)? The post can be found at "http://www.motoringlife.ie/news_lex0307.htm".

Impressive. Does the S-Class even have that much technology? I am worried though that all these electronics could cause the new E-Class to suffer the same fate of the first editions of the current one.

I didn't get that. What happened to the first edition?

Oh... I get it. A jab. Reliability.

Bah!

I saw a black E550 Sport today... it looked sensational. If it were stretched and badged as an S-Class, I wouldn't think twice about its curb appeal.

It wasn't "a jab" S4, it was merely a fact. The first of the W211s were heavily criticized for faulty electronics. They supposedly fixed them though.

Where's the evidence that the E Class has had its reliability issues fixed?

Merc actually did away with the electrohdrolic braking system for the 2007 E350. Not because of poor reliability but becuase of customer feedback of not having enough brake pedal feeling. And trying to "out lexus, lexus" what a crok of s**t. this site has become so biased with the majority of the writers suking up to lexus. Lexus is a good brand but there is no reason to compare them to every car maker and put them on a podium.

Which is why Lexus does not do that.

It nice to be finally acknowlege that you're the leader in the safety dept. So finally MB is aiming straight at Lexus because Lexus is the Bench;)

Trust me I know what I'm talking about, I read automagazine remember....he..he...he...ha....ha.

But yeah Lexus has the won the safety review done in German between the Lexus LS, BMW, and the S-class.

I really think you, and your idiotic crew of promoting the Lexus brand is just doing it damage, if that was your purpose. I went to liking lexus, to now hating it because of your useless and needless remarks.

It may not have been you before, but it was someone for the "***Lexus**" crew.

I'm sorry, but seriously, you have no idea.

Mercedes-Benz invented ABS, the airbag (!), Distronic adaptive cruise, pressure-sensitive brake lights, and of course, the CAR.

Since when is Lexus the technology leader?

Did I miss something?

A gimmick like self-park, which is every bit as useless as the S-Class's "advanced" night view system, is simply that- a gimmick.

The LS has up-to-date tech, in every way. But it doesn't stand out to me as an outright leader.

Again, nobody even implied Lexus was the new technology leader. You guys take the headlines way too literally and automatically go on defensive mode!

Advanced" night view system is a good thing to have if you have night vision problems.

Self park is good for those that can't turn their heads to park a car, I guess.

The night vision system sounds like a good idea, since I know my dad says he has trouble driving in the night, so it kinda makes sense, since I am pretty sure this car is geared for the older crowd rather than the younger.

And the park assist seems like a decent idea, all big cars should have it, since it is much harder I find to park a larger car than it is to a smaller one.

Every innovation that is made will only make the industry stronger and better.

Mercedes is the leader in automobile technology and it's a common household fact.

I don't know why you were deboosted, but it is known the MB has been an innovator of safety technologies, along with GM, but never have I heard of lexus being anything of the sort until very recently.

Don't get me wrong, the LS is amazing, and I love lexus, well use to until those "***Lexus***" kids ruined it, but yea MB if anyone should be taking the credit.

"copied the "straight six engine architecture" .. Hmm well, you are one uniquely ignorant fellow. For one the new IS uses a V6 which hopefully you are aware that is different from an inline 6.

yep. long time since i've seen such IGNORANCE.

IF the straight 6 is a better architecture than the V configuration, then why did MB dump their straight 6s for v6s?

That's funny. The new S-Class looks like a German Nissan. And of course BMW is above swapping and upgrading engines. BMW releases the 330i with 255hp, then Lexus comes out with the 306hp IS350, next thing you know we have the new 335i, new turbos and all. And don't forget the new M3 getting a V8 in typical Merc fashion.

Apex Alex, at least in a general sense, an in-line engine should last longer than a comparable V-configured engine. In a V-configuration the angular difference in the loading caused by the piston offset induces moments about the axis of the crankshaft. Thus giving it the tendency to corkscrew as it rotates. So you have increased loading, and it isn't exactly "neat". That is just in general.

Why would you change to V configuration? To save space. The engine can be shortened significantly in one direction in a v-configuration. You require a longer bonnet for the inline: Volvo gets around this by mounting their inline engines transverse.

Except the common front pre-crash system,lane departure warning, Lexus LS at least has 3 world first safety features:

1. Rear end pre-crash safety system
2. driver monitor
3. VDIM

wasn't there an issue with the rear crash system? that it could accelerate into a car ahead of it b/c there's no radar system in the front?

The Advanced PCS now incorporates
four world firsts:

1. an Advanced Obstacle Detection System,
2. a Driver Monitoring System,
3. Emergency Steering Assist,
4. a Rear Pre-Crash Safety system

Take a look at "LS600h Presentation Movie", amazing machine.

http://lexus.jp/models/ls/lsh/index.html

Three (significantly more important) Mercedes-Benz world first safety features:

1. The airbag
2. ABS
3. PreSafe

Please, these have become old tech.

Sorry S4 but you are wrong. Both of these entries are from Wikapedia:

[edit] Invention
There have been airbag-like devices for aeroplanes as early as the 1940s, with the first patents filed in the 1950s. Early air bag system origins traces back to air filled bladders. These systems were large and bulky, and primarily consisted of compressed or heated air, compressed nitrogen gas (N2), freon, carbon dioxide (CO2), or a mixture of water and potasium (KH2O). [1]

The airbag as known today was invented by John W. Hetrick in 1952 and he patented the device the following year. Hetrick came up with the idea to help protect his own family using expertise from his naval engineering days.

The American inventor Allen Breed then developed a key component for automotive use - the ball-in-tube sensor for crash detection. He marketed this innovation first in 1967 to Chrysler.

Anti-lock braking systems were first developed for aircraft in 1929 by the French automobile and aircraft pioneer Gabriel Voisin[citation needed]. An early system was Dunlop's Maxaret system, introduced in the 1950s and still in use on some aircraft models, in 1936 the German Company Bosch also developed a first electronic version[citation needed] which was made of more than 1000 analouge electronic parts and was still fairly slow. This was a fully mechanical system. It saw limited automobile use in the 1960s in the Ferguson P99 racing car, the Jensen FF and the experimental all wheel drive Ford Zodiac, but saw no further use; the system proved expensive and, in automobile use, somewhat unreliable. However, a limited form of anti-lock braking, utilizing a valve which could adjust front to rear brake force distribution when a wheel locked, was fitted to the 1964 Austin 1800. The first car (worldwide) to have ABS fitted as standard (across the entire range) was the Ford Granada Mk 3 (of 1985).

Dude, you need to tone down the crazy talk!

"As well as the usual follow-to-stop radar-based Distronic, the E-class driver will benefit from a more intelligent PreSafe system, which tightens belts and staggers the airbag timing in sync with the calculated severity of the impact. Other features include lane departure warning, eye movement monitor, traffic sign identification, road condition sensors and a third-generation ESP stability, which incorporates semi-active steering to compensate for crosswinds, camber changes and, believe it or not, uneven tyre wear."

The title is misleading. All above are not NEW technology.

That is a ridiculos comment.

He is a ridiculous person.

I agree that it's true. You are ridiculous.

Wait- this article was anti-Lexus. How did this become Autospies promoting Lexus above all others? Jeez...

The title is f***ed up. And people wonder why we have flame wars....

Anyone know why the new mitsu EVO gallery was tagged onto this, guess it was a mix up.

I think its great. All companies should work to make cars safer. Toyota is spending 26million a day on R&D.

Thats right- how did you know that figure?

Did you see the R8? When I saw it at the Chicago Auto Show, I went crazy. Most beautiful Audi ever. Probably most beautiful car for under $120K as of now.

Although, it's not the same as seeing it on the road. I can't wait.

The R8 is the most exciting car for me since the Jag XJ220 and NSX first came out.

LOL.

My take on the GS, relative to competition...

Style:

1. E-Class
2. A6 / 5 Series tie
3. M / GS Hybrid
4. GS

Interior:

1. A6
2. E-Class
3. GS
4. 5 Series / M tie

Performance:

1. 5 Series
2. M
3. A6 / E-Class tie
4. GS

Value-for-dollar:

1. M
2. A6
3. GS
4. 5 Series
5. E-Class

Interior space/comfort:

1. A6
2. 5 Series
3. E-Class
4. M
5. GS

Image:

1. E-Class
2. 5 Series
3. A6 / GS tie
4. M

That's it.

Man Lexusmaniac- you have got to stop these idiotic comments.

Lexusmaniac, that's just crazy talk.

Oh, of course I was already de-boosted to -3.

WHY?!?!?!?!?!

001, PLEASE!

GET RID OF THE FU¢KING BOOSTING SYSTEM!

IT'S THE MOST ANNOYING THING ON THE WEBSITE-- THAT INCLUDES THE FLAME WARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you don't make so many dumb comments, you don't get deboosted.

simple.

Why does every remotely positive Lexus article cause some people here to act like they just got kicked in the balls?

Everyone has their own favorite brand. Deal with it.

Constantly getting upset when comparisons of Lexus and Benz/BMW/Audi are made speaks more to your own bias than this website's or anyone else's.

Wrong.

This is too funny:
"As well as the usual follow-to-stop radar-based Distronic, the E-class driver will benefit from a more intelligent PreSafe system, which tightens belts and staggers the airbag timing in sync with the calculated severity of the impact"
Drivers sure will need this after all the electronics fail as usual. Their cars should also come with warning signs saying "WARNING: DRIVE AT OWN RISK"

Some people on this site make it hard to like the Lexus brand..Yes, I am basing my opinion on a car company, based on the losers that post obnoxious comments here..I used to think Lexus produces reliable,luxurious, technological advanced cars...NOW i think of Lexus as wanna be Mercedes,without soul/character, ugly/boxy cheap cars..Really my opinion has entirely changed because of some idiots who post on this site (comments and articles)...

Like many others, you just cannot accept any fact that Lexus is ahead German.

How is it not in the same league? Because Lexus offer more for less?

e.g. LS460 vs. 750 vs S550

1. powertrain is not in the same league? 8 sp is not one more gear than 7?
2. safety features are not in the same league? Those Lexus world firsts are worth nothing?
3. Whose has more luxury features?
4. 19 speeakers Mark Levison is crap?
5. Hybrid LS600hL is also piece of crap?
6. Who has better build quality and reliability?

Just you Euro fanbois make following leading technology sound like a bad thing.

Notice that the Badge price is not essentially equal to advanced technology.

Well, Supra, when you factor in...

• ML audio
• Self-park
• Navigation
• Backup camera
• Park sensors
• Bluetooth
• Satellite radio
• PWR doors/trunk

...are all part of very expensive packages, and you need to spend $8,000 to get a navigtaion system (which is standard on all three Germans), the value factor is diminished. The LS460L easily approaches $90,000 and beyond.

In fact, the least money you can spend while still having the self-park is $72,575 on a SWB LS460, it puts it right up there with a well-equipped A8. There's a lot you can get on an A8 for $4,000. In fact, I'll list what you can get for $4,000 on an A8 SWB:

• Power rear sunshade
• Manual rear side window shades (SWB only)
• PWR one-touch trunk
• Advanced Key
• Heated front and rear seats
• PWR closing front/rear doors
• Advanced parking w/ rear view camera and sensors

That's just the Premium Package. If you want stand-alone options, for $4,000, you can get...

• Adaptive cruise and 19" polished rims (exactly $4,000)

• 19" polished rims, heated steering wheel, heated seats w/ ventilation and massage in front and Sirius radio

• Alcantara headliner, solar sunroof, dual-pane security glass, extended leather pack and power rear lumber adjustment

I could go on...

All BS.

6-Speed: the standard
7-Speed: revolutionary
8-Speed: "piece of s**t"

?

Well since we're making up stuff now, I'll say that the S class A/C smells like a dead cat when used.

I don't think any of those are revolutionary.

Six-speed- necessary

Seven/eight- simply adding an extra cog. Unnecessary, but useful.

what kind of logic is it, that colors your view of a car just because of others' comments on it?

i could just as well HATE bimmers due to the number of idiots who drive them as if they own the road.

but i don't. why don't you too, think for YOURSELF?

what kind of logic is it, that colors your view of a car just because of others' comments on it?

i could just as well HATE bimmers due to the number of idiots who drive them as if they own the road.

but i don't. why don't you too, think for YOURSELF?

and recognize, cars are JUST machines. they have characteristics, but not STUPID OPINIONS, like so many people seem to have. (others have INFORMED opinions.)

somehow, these are NOT posting UNDER the comments i try to respond to.

these were in response to theman above.

Hahaha
Is that what their "Touch n Feel" department to come up with?

Lets say I really like the S class,but I also like the LS, A8, 7 series for whatever qualities they have and appreciate all of them...Then a stupid lexus fan comes on and starts bashing ,for no reason, the S class(or 7 or A8)..I try refuting his comments by describing the good and the bad for both cars..No hope..Then I resort to using fire with fire, bash Lexus back..Slowly this develops into a dislike towards the specific brand...You see the pattern..?

This comment is towards ApexAlex

goes both ways.

i used to be totally INDIFFERENT towards german cars. the posts by eurofan boys have TENDED to make me hate them.

and again, the cars --from ALL countries-- are just machines. why judge them by their owners/fans, RATHER than for what they are AS CARS?

Of course this would be your opinion. Would anyone expect anything else from you?

Let's put the subjective driving feel aside. The topic here is about safety technology. Why the heck is that difficult to admit Lexus have used some world first safety techniques?

I just skimmed your long rant, but I can tell it was about "heritage."

Does "heritage" ensure you a better car? In what regard? Does "heritage" get you a safer car? Does it get you a more luxurious car? Just what exactly does a car with "heritage" get you that a car without "heritage" does not? The answer is nothing.

Don't get me wrong, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a car with more "heritage" but when "heritage" is constantly used as the last argument as to what makes German cars better tan Lexus on this site, it becomes a joke. Clearly "heritage" does not make the "better" car. Anyone who bases their car-buying decisions on "heritage" alone is quite simply a fool. "Heritage" is not all that it takes to make a great car.

You and several others insensitively keep making the arguments that Americans are "dumb" for buying Lexus, "dumb" for buying hybrids. I can just as easily make the argument that Europeans are "dumb" for believing that such an intangible aspect of an automobile such as "heritage" suckers you into buying a car. Europeans are equally if not more "dumb" for continuing to purchase automobiles with sub-par track records for reliability compared to their competition. I could just as easily make the argument that it is the European countries that do not care as much for the environment as North America and Japan. I could, but those are ridiculous implications that I, as a rational and decent person just would not do.

There's nothing wrong with your car being considered an "emotional" purchase or experience. However subsequently, there's also absolutely nothing wrong with someone wanting an automobile with different characteristics. To say otherwise is simply disrespectful. Who are you to say that Lexuses are made by people who don't appreciate cars? That's ridiculous. I'd say that the team of people who can design an automobile to work as effortlessly as a Lexus does, who can engineer an automobile to work as efficiently and reliably as a Lexus does, who can perfect the comfort of an automobile as comfortable as all Lexuses are, cares a great deal about making cars, and deserves respect, if not admiration.

God, what else was I going to say? I can't remember.

Anyway, you believe your A8 has a "soul." How do you know I don't feel the same way about my LS?

extra speeds DO have a practical use.

they allow for a wider RANGE of gearing, and more flexibility. i just read a report of the new tundra, along with all the specs.

the standard 6-speed allows TWO overdrive gears. and a lower rear end ratio. (useful, but normally uneconomic on trucks)

so the tundra has class leading performance. with NO fuel mileage penalty.

hmm. again, these aren't posting in the right place. anyway, this counters the claim that an 8-sp is "useless."

6 is FAR superior to a 4-sd (as some of the new tundra's competitors STILL have).

an 8 speed adds further flexibility across the whole range of operating speeds.

I must agree with Will here. The heritage argument isn't even an argument. I see it as a stupid, repetitive rant about nothing.

If you want to argue for a German car, at least back it up with something. "Heritage" isn't anything. Who cares if there was an S-Class forty years ago? Unless it's something directly related to that, shouldn't we be boasting about the S-Class of today?

How about technology? Luxury? Style? Performance? Any of those would work for me, but heritage is just stupid. The same applies to "prestige." What is that? Not everybody percieves brands the same way. The only brand I see as universally prestigious is Mercedes-Benz. That's it-- and even THAT is cutting it close.

Or how about quitting this altogether? How about just discussing cars like a normal car enthusiast website? I know that's WAY too much to ask of AutoSpies, but we hear the same arguments every day!

"Oh, but the Lexus is so reliable!" "RELIABILITY DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S MAGIC FEEL AND HERITAGE!" "But the QUALITY of Lexus!!!" "PRESTIGE!!!! I DRIVE A BMW!!!" "Audi is just a re-badged VW!" "Lexus is a TOYOTA!!!"

AARGH!!! Am I the only one who's sick of this?

Nasty... You should be ashamed of yourself. Ignorant as well...

does 555 hp provide any PRACTICAL advantage over a 550 hp competitor, other than on track days? so why do the german makes have this SENSELESS hp war going?

so why quibble over one more tranny gear? other than feeling disgraced 'cuz YOUR brand has been one-upped?

one-upmanship is AS OLD AS competition and sales pitches.

LIVE with it.

again, not going where intended.

anyway, another response to "complaints" about utility of the 8-speed.

you all need to stfu and go wash your car. its a beautiful weekend. every single time you guys buy into autospies' flame-bait articles. is it any wonder? you guys generate a lot of traffic just to reply to the next retarded comment made by someone you dont know.

Here is a funny comment I found on some Automotive site.

It isn't well punctuated, but its simplicity and honesty is quite interesting:

"lexus is a well made car. why. because toyota is a well made car. but lets get one thing straight. the only reason way lexus can sell cars is through there intensive and annoying advertising and their "claims" to so many innovations. how often do you ever see an S class advertisement on tv let alone advertising all of its gadgets. the S-class advertises itself. period. i will admit that the LS is a more reliable car. doesnt mean its better. the S-class is a rich mans car that keeps the car for 4 years at most. say all the bad things you want about the S..the bottom line is that the S-class is the best selling premium sedan ever made even though its the highest priced among the rest. the facts speak for itself. it is an engineering masterpeice and innovation leader. any car magazine journalist would agree.
every design aspect that Lexus has created was a result of mercedes benz. there is one thing that Lexus will never be able to engineer. Prestige, History, Class. When is the last time you saw the ambassador or prince of a country in a Lexus. it will never happen. Even the richest in Japan drive Benzs.
the only major thing that Lexus has invented is the LS that virtually parks itself. Big deal. the S-class virtually drives itself. it will accelerate and come to a complete stop by itself. imagine driving in traffic and all you have to do is steer. beat that. Why does no one know about this, because Mercedes doesnt have to make cheesy commercials to show off their technology. why do Lexus commercials have to poke fun at English and the German Engineers? why dont they have Japanese Engineers in their commercials. ashamed? imagine if Mercedes stooped to their cheesy level and made stupid commercials making fun of Japanese engineers. "ooo. i rike to copy mercedes and bmw. it rooks so nice. i ruv to copy german ruxury"
i'd like to see Lexus even attempt to sell a $500k car. SLR wannabe. Shit i'd like to see them sell a $190k SL65 wannable. no one would buy it. why? who the hell is gonna spend that much money on a japanese car that has no history, no prestige.
how ironic. the name Lexus not only has no history or meaning, but the japanese cant even pronounce it. Rexus? i dont own a mercedes. i love japanese cars. i'll be happy with toyota, honda and a chevy truck for the rest of my life. but i AM a car enthusiast. Love Infiniti. Hate Lexus. Lexus wouldnt be where they are if it werent for Mercedes. now they're trying to take on BMW.. are u kidding me? that will be the day. the new LS says 7 series all over it. Lexoyota. What a joke. Celebrities, Athletes, Prime Ministers, and the richest of the rich. Mercedes will always lead the way. And when the Covertable S-class comes in 08,..its all over"

Yes.

The fact that you were so lazy enough as to transfer a poorly written, illogical, and simply boring comment like that onto this site is disgraceful. People, read at your own risk, you'll end up wasting a good minute of your evening.

Honestly, the whole "Lexus has no prestige argument" is tiring, and again, just plain boring. Can't anyone of you passionate Lexusphobes come up with a better argument? Lexus has no prestige...duh. Has it stopped Lexus so far? No. Is it the determining factor as to what makes a good car? No. Of course Lexus has a far shorter history compared to their competitors. It's no deep dark secret that Lexus is trying to cover up. Also, what's all this nonsense of Mercedes not advertising? Mercedes does plenty of advertising, and more times than not, they advertise their cars as having...prestige and technology, shocking. It speaks volumes that Lexus has had as much success as they've had with only half of that formula, adding to the equation impeccable build quality, refined luxury, and the now-dreaded word, reliability. Who knew that's all it took? Toyota.

In the spirit of copy-and-pasting, here's a comment I made a few days ago, that is apparently even more relevant in this topic: "Back in the 1800s, do you think people said 'No, I won't buy a BMW, they have no prestige next to a Daimler!'" You people are kidding yourselves if you think the rest of the world cares about such matters. No, I'm not saying that one cannot value prestige in their automobile, but to deny the owner of a car with "no prestige" respect is such a shame.

As an owner of both German AND Japanese autos, I find this site extremely frustrating...

I think the word 'disgraceful' used in this instance is a bit strong. I indulge in the habit of copy and pasting, however the argument it presented was honest if poorly-constructed.

Also, I wasn't in any way pushing the 'prestige' argument. in my history at Autospies, I do not recall EVER using that argument against any car.

I was bringing to light the interesting point the quote raised about marketing. It reminded me of that magazine advertisement for the (last) Lexus LS where the entire ad was devoted to the fact the LS had parking sensors.

I mean c'mon!

"I hardly ever indulge"

So all that was to make a point that Lexus advertises more than Mercedes? Most would agree that there are a lot of other automakers that advertise more than Mercedes, not just Lexus.

MBUSA seems to have a different viewpoint on advertising. In Europe, Mercedes does advertise more than in North America, I'm guessing for the obvious reason that that is their home territory. Mercedes tends to take different viewpoints on marketing and such. They don't bother with such "mass-market" tasks such as traditional marketing. It's not necessarily a "good" or "bad" decision for Mercedes, the brand can afford such a trade-off.

What are people expecting? Lexus to just come on the scene and not advertise? That's just bad business practice. Daimler and Benz both had to advertise back in 1886, otherwise, how would people have known about their products?

It's true, Lexus has not reached that status yet. That status that allows the majority of their products to just advertise themselves. I ask, what is better advertising than having a $500K car come out? Did you notice how much free press time the news of the SLR got when it came out? Mercedes simply announced a joint project with McLaren and the free press just swarmed. See, Mercedes does not do the "traditional" mag and commercial ads ass much as Lexus, but that does not mean they aren't "advertising." To be honest I don't even think Lexus had to do much advertising for the new LS. Do you know how many news programs featured a demonstration of the self-parking LS? The same effect. Lexus is getting there, slowly but surely.

like it or knock it, marketing is what makes some people pay the equivalent of $500+ a barrel for ordinary WATER. ;)

How do you know the upcoming C63 will be "more brilliant" than the RS4? AMG cars don't have a (recent) history of being excellent to drive. They're usually fast in a straight line, but their handling can't match M or S/RS cars- ESPECIALLY the RS4.

A brief internet search...none from wikipedia

Mercedes-Benz safety firsts include self-adjusting brakes (1938), first frontal crash test (1959), first rollover test (1960), first energy-absorbing steering column (1967). In addition to the original patent for the automobile, further
Mercedes-Benz "firsts" include: development of the safety car body with rigid
passenger cell and front and rear crumple zones (1951); electronic anti-lock
brake system "ABS" (1978); and Electronic Stability Program "ESP" (1995).

Wow. I can't believe you were de-boosted for posting factual information.

+1!

Shut up about lexus already, they're not even merc, bmw, audi, competitors.

They cost far less and offer little more than the camry. Their owners can't afford a german equivalent but want you to think they can.

number of patents issued for auto related items were charted in the book, The Machine that Changed the World.

Germany PEAKED in the 1980s. surpassed by America. which in turn, has since been surpassed by Japan.