Can Lexus Beat the German Diesels with Hybrids in Europe?

i doubt that lexus will steal significant sales volume from diesels. gasoline is 4x more expensive in europe and the lexus hybrids don't get near the mileage that diesels do.

the answer to the heading is NO

You guys missed the point here..."it's another fuel alternative", just like "diesel." Now there is more reason to buy gas rather than diesel, even though diesel is the major money maker in Europe. But after all Toyota/Lexus is coming out with a Hybrid/Diesel version in the very near future. And when that happens, then what??? By the end of 2008 goin' into 2009 the premium price on a hybrid will be cut in half by 55-60% and will provide Lithium-Ion batteries. Let alone a diesel combination of all 3 in such a compact technological design and operation. Don't jump the gun kids, it's only a matter of time!!! Cheers!!!

i don't think i missed the point.
we'll see what the future may hold.
but current 'luxury' hybrids get crappy gas mileage compared to diesels. and lexus wouldn't be making a diesel in the future if they could get decent mileage with one of their hybrids.

Oh no, not again. Is it a slow period for auto news or something?

No.

Not in the near future. Just as the German diesel initiative in North America will not trample the sales of hybrids here.

Exactly. Subsequently, if I lived in Europe, I would look at a diesel before anything else. Nothing to flame hybrids or diesels over. Differing prices for diesel and gasoline are the main determining factor here.

diesels have changed.
and so will opinion.

people buy hybrids because they want to do something better for the world by saving gas. so why exactly wouldn't these same people buy a diesel that gets even better mileage?

fyi--mercedes sold 11,000 E-class diesel in the US. lexus sold 2,000 GS450h. what does that tell you?

those sales were for 2006 by the way.

Seeing the cost of purchase of a Hybrid over a Diesel car, it will be very difficult, also when you take under consideration that Hybrids don't have the best Highway mileage and Europeans take their cars to go on vacation on highways!

the GS doesn't have anything like the performance of the M5, you really are mad.
If you believe what you say, then you are mistaken. Diesels are not slow, they're not smelly, they don't contribute to global warming as much as petrol cars (lower CO2).
Lexus makes a diesel! A rattley one though.

And your racism against Europeans is horrific. I'm primitive and dumb?

I'm not going to start a mess, but you have stereotyped Americans in the past, Rupert.

Not everyone in the country is a hick!

In fact, my family as a whole is quite intelligent, and I'm not going to start bragging about my own accomplishments...

I'm not going to start a mess, but you have stereotyped Americans in the past, Rupert.

Not everyone in the country is a hick!

In fact, my family as a whole is quite intelligent, and I'm not going to start bragging about my own accomplishments...

lexusmaniac.
your names says it all.
your commentary is arbitrary, largely irrational and often anti-european.
get a grip.

Exactly! In town, we use public transport.

The Europeans will eventually realize that what Lexus has to offer in terms of hybrids, will compliment very nicely with their other engine choices.

dear huu.
are you and lexusmaniac part of the same cult?

just as a refresher, many more people disagree with you than agree:

in 2006, mercedes and bmw each sold well over a million cars worldwide.
lexus sold one-third that amount (almost all of it in the US).

without radical product changes, the brand won't do well outside the US for the same reasons that cadillacs never sold well in the rest of the world: their ride is too soft, handling too numb and styling too benign.

lexus could rebadge any toyota and you'd pay 30% more for it.
smart guy.

and leave your racist commentary in the 1950s please.

and 5 year ago, hybrids had to be plugged in.
get with the program.
many technologies are making significant progress. diesels included. drive an E320 bluetec and then talk to me.

Huu drive a new Mercedes?

Yeah right! Huu is way to smart to ACTUALLY drive any of the hundreds of European cars he bad-mouths.

He just sits on his arse looking at unemployment levels in Europe and other irrelevant statistics before deciding on which car to talk crap about.

lexus can only make it in Europe if they make better diesel engines than competition. Hybrids just won't work.

re: "Toyota makes more profit than all of Germany's industry"

1. ridiculous. one company makes more than all of german industry?
2. who really cares? i'm interested in great engineering, not great accounting.

so if the value is in toyota why pay 30% more for the lexus? the smart thing seems to be to buy the toyota.

Shortcomings?

We don't want to hear your life story, huu.

Not all Lexuses are rebadged Toyotas. E.g. the Lexus LX is a luxury Landcruiser, but a Lexus LS is not equivalent to any Toyota. If you argue that a Lexus LS is practically a Toyota because Toyota owns Lexus then one could argue that a Ferrari F430 is a Fiat Punto or any Cadillac is a Daewoo.

I think it is more probable that Europeans would consider a gas-electric hybrid over a conventional, gas-powered engine.

In Europe, they still have 49% of new car buyers purchasing gas powered cars.

Diesel fans are diesel fans and petro fans are petro fans. Some still prefer the performance characteristics of gas power, especially if it is turbo-charged, direct injection where the torque remains peaked up through 5,000 RPM.

Hybrid technologies must try to win market share from both proponents (gas and diesel) by offering products in both markets. From a cost basis and from a current technological standpoint, it makes since to offer the gas-electric hybrids first, since those are already in mass production in various engine displacements; whereas diesel hybrids are still being considered/developed.

Toyota is way behind in the diesel game.

They should either try to fight for market share from the buyers who prefer gas power, or hire an entire engineering team who know diesels. They will have to steal those folks from DCX, VW/Audi, BMW, Peugot, Renault, and (believe it or not) Ford.

Some folks think that Toyota knows diesel, because they have Hino, but if you look at the current diesel engines produced by Toyota, they are far inferior to the products coming on by the companies that are really up on the latest technologies.

Toyota has announced that diesels don't make sense for the North American market, because the costs do not justify the improvement in fuel economy; but this is only because Toyota can't make it work from their cost structures. Daimler Chrysler and VW/Audi would say the same thing about hybrids, while claiming that the diesel scenario works for them!

You believe that Toyota is not capable of making a superior diesel engine if it makes sense? Hybrid technology is a much more difficult technology to master than diesels. Their money is on hybrids/electrics being the engines of the future, and I think they are right.

Why do you never point out the failings of the American auto industry?

You always fail to mention their lack of product development and 'old-world' mentality.