BMW CEO: Audi will NEVER overtake BMW or Mercedes globally-Is he right?

of course he's right....

A4 wont take over C or 3

A6 wont take over 5 or E

ect...

duh

But C has been taken over by G35 and G has it's sites on 3.
And Infiniti M has taken over 5 & E already...just read any car magazine.
BMW and Mercedes better hope that Infiniti doesn't get it's global operations in order because then they are both in trouble.
Plus, Infiniti is way more reliable than the Germans. Who the hell wants to spend a couple of days a month at the dealership for nagging problems like the Germans always require. Trust me. I've experienced it. In 4 years the only time I have spent at the Infiniti dealer has been for routine maintenance. Their cars are bulletproof.

the Infiniti M is a great value and a nice car, and it's gotten excellent reviews, but that hasn't translated into huge sales. It hasn't made a dent in 5-series sales, which last year was the #1 selling car in the class in the U.S. Globally I think the A6 was #1 with the 5-series #2.

AMG0 YOUR AND IDIOT, FIRST OFF THE C has never been better then the A4, the C class is a joke. The A8 is so much better then the 7 series also. And the A6 is a ton better then the E class.

Yes the 3 series right now is better then the A4, and the S class is better then the A8, but dont act like Audi is 3 in every class, cause then your really showing everyone on this site you have no clue what so ever. Also the R8 right now is better then any car BMW has in its line up right now and the only car MB can say is better is 4 times as much. Give me a break

CommonSense, next time you're in a BMW with navigation try turning the knob to zoom in a little bit on the navigation map. It shows street names, the only time it doesn't is if you're zoomed out too far.

He sounds scared

i thought Audi was not a true competator
booo audi is coming to get you

Why not?? I think he should be afraid of Audi. As a matter of fact, everyone in this world (except Mr. Norbert Reithofer) know that Audi is one of the finest luxury automaker. Plus, lots of people would choose Audi rather than BMW or Mercedes. There's got to be some serious reasons for their decisions.

As we are living in the world of capitalism these days, I do believe that overtaking Mercedes or BMW is not just possible, but probable.

According to this report (http://www.globalinsight.com/SDA/SDADetail7738.htm) from Global Insight, here's the 2006 worldwide sales breakdown for MB/BMW/Audi:

AUDI: 833,000 (8.7% increase over 2005)
BMW: 1,244,775 (2.8% increase over 2005)
MB: 1,094,500 (4.8% increase over 2005)

But C has been taken over by G35 and G has it's sites on 3.
And Infiniti M has taken over 5 & E already...just read any car magazine.
BMW and Mercedes better hope that Infiniti doesn't get it's global operations in order because then they are both in trouble.
Plus, Infiniti is way more reliable than the Germans. Who the hell wants to spend a couple of days a month at the dealership for nagging problems like the Germans always require. Trust me. I've experienced it. In 4 years the only time I have spent at the Infiniti dealer has been for routine maintenance. Their cars are bulletproof.

jman ... the has not taken over the 5 or the E. That one kills me. Forget the magazines, cause those are opinions anyways and look at the sales numbers. How many m's are sold in the US compared to the 5 & E? It is not even close. By the way, since you bring up magazines and such, the G35 cant even beat out the 325. Did you know that BMW sells more 3-series in the US than Infiniti sells for their entire lineup? Where do these people come from? lmao

Don't feel bad, I got deboosted for pointing out how to use the navigation system in a BMW. The people on this site are fantastic.

I'm with you!
I have an A6 2.7t with 6-speed, and its quick, but I'm not going to do any drag-racing with it. Its a 2-ton luxury car with a tiny 2.7 liter engine! Its fun & fantastic, but no match for v8-powered sports-lux cars.

the lexus brand has nothing to do with this post, please refrain your posting until you can stop being an idiot.

Lexus is not global, neither is Infiniti.

You're an idiot as well. stop posting things that don't make sense to a post.

3-Series sold in Feb. = 11,735
C-class sold in Feb. = 3,868
Audi sold in Feb = 2,461

BMW is kicking butt

Those numbers are only for US sales.
This article is about GLOBAL SALES.
Where Audi is only 1-2% away from BMW. Looooser !!!!

Dumb comparison.
3-series IS BMW ... they're dead without it.
Benz lives off the E-Class.
Do you have some figures to compare e-class to 5-series?
I suspect that Benz outsells BMW once you get above compact car size.

Wasn't it the Audi CEO about four months ago that was declaring BMW, Lexus and Mercedes will never have the global success Audi has? What's up with German CEOs?

Wasn't it the Audi CEO about four months ago that was declaring BMW, Lexus and Mercedes will never have the global success Audi has? What's up with German CEOs?

All German CEO's(in fact, most Germans) have a false measure of their own personal gravity.

show me that article?

It's really simple math. If Audi continues its growth rate of 9% vs BMW's 3%, Audi will eventually at least catch up. The A6 already outsales the 5 series and the E class globally and I believe I read somewhere that they are outselling MB for this year. In the end it doesn't really matter. In the end BMW would be wise not to discount the brand too much. I can remember a time when the idea of BMW outselling MB was a joke.

The problem with your math is that its flat. There's no way that both companies will continue to grow at a flat rate of 9% and 3% annually.

yeah, IF Audi continues to grow at 9% every year, and IF BMW continues to grow at 3% every year, eventually Audi would catch up. Last year BMW sold what, 1.4 million vehicles? Audi sold 900k, right? Even if they continued to grow 9% a year (doubtful but if so good for them) and BMW stayed at 3% (unlikely considering the new convertibles, new X5, 1-series coming to the U.S., revamped 5-series and all-new 7-series, etc.) at that rate it's going to take Audi 13 years to catch up. I don't see Audi maintaining that growth for 13 years and BMW (or Mercedes) not doing anything about it.

13 years isn't quite so long.

13 years ago, they were designing the first A4.

Look how far they've come.

Don't confuse BMW group with BMW brand. As a brand I'm pretty sure their numbers were closer to 1.2 million models. Considering additional number of models BMW has it's not that big of a gap.

Not true. Emergeing markets are getting in the game. India and China are growing at 15% or more. With almost 2 billion people in these two countries combined, it only takes a fraction to make a big difference in current sales in this market.

then you have to all all the Audi, VW, Lambo, Bently, skoda, seat etc models

BMW, Mercedes and "success" are inevitable.

I bet if Audi distanced themselves further from Volkswagen, the brand would begin to catch up.

Audi will NOT sustain that kind of growth, only BMW has been able to do that in the last 20+ years

Only BMW, right .... like they are special ... dream on ......

True True... Audi sucks

I got a chance to drive an A4 and S4 for several days. I have to say I was impressed with the A4 and S4. Between Mercedes and Audi, I take an Audi without hesitation. However, once a sub-luxury brand, always a sub-luxury.

"However, once a sub-luxury brand, always a sub-luxury"
That's really not true. BMW was sub luxury until about 30 years ago.

How is Audi sub luxury? They have a W12 engine, R8 sports car, and S/RS divisions.

BMWRU - some people don't get it

you said you prefer the Audi
If you want something less then the best buy your BMW

You can never really say "never" in the auto industry.

I'm sure the domestic U.S. execs in the 1960's thought they would "never" be threatened by Japanese imports.

So true, so true, I wish I could boost you up twice...who wrote this damn site anyway! ;)

This is why I hate BMW's--their philosophy, their attitudes, and THEIR OWNERS.

Audi's global sales lagged BMW's by a mere 300,000 units for 2006. Audi was able to sell that many cars WITHOUT the SUV's (introduced mid year) or a coupe. If someone wanted a coupe, they'd go to BMW.

After driving an Audi and looking at BMW's, I can say I will never buy one after looking at those cheap excuses for interiors. I wondered, who in their right mind would be dumb enough to pay for that kind of workmanship.

Audi's fit, finish, and materials are superior. BMW's "image" is fastly declining, and now Audi is coming at them with S/RS and a reworked chassis.

CEO's only make these kinds of statements when they KNOW their ass is on the line.

First off, BMW didn't have the new 2007 X5 until October and had almost no 2006 X5's for half the year. So that argument is moot. Now that the X5 and Q7 are both out BMW is selling 50% more X5's than Audi is Q7's.

Second, coupes are a limited market. They make up a very small percentage of BMW sales, and while Audi didn't have a coupe they did have the A4/S4/RS4 convertible. BMW had basically no 3-series coupes or convertibles of any kind, and no M3 coupes or convertibles. Those models were on build out and there were very few for most of the year, same as the X5. The new 3-convertible is now out, as is the new coupe. Figures will be drastically different this year.

I'm not doubting that Audi will continue to grow. I like their cars, though I think they're getting ridiculous with all the model overlap they're creating. But at the same time there's no doubt in my mind that BMW is going to continue growing too, and I have a feeling with all the new stuff this year (everything I mentioned plus the redesigned 5-series comes out next month) that BMW is going to have a record year.

What model overlap? I don't see any overlap, and certainly not any that BMW doesn't have already.

"First off, BMW didn't have the new 2007 X5 until October and had almost no 2006 X5's for half the year. So that argument is moot."

Oh, really? I had no idea. You must be a BMW insider, or else pulling excuses out of your @ss. As far as I knew, they were selling every 2006 X5 they could build... which was the same as the year before, and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that, and the first year the X5 was produced. In fact, an acquaintance of mine traded an '03 X5 for an '06... and there were many to choose from on dealer lots.

S4, I am a BMW insider, actually. Check your sales figures for 2006 X5's vs. 2005 X5's. Sales were down over 30%. Why? They cut production. BMW didn't want there to be excess 2006's laying around when the 2007's came out, so they cut production and spent half the year with minimal inventory. They also spent most of the year with minimal coupes, convertibles, and M's due to model build outs.

Don't attack me, I'm not the average fanboy on here and I'm not attacking Audi. I'll defend Audi when people say ignorant things about them, which happens quite often on here. But I'll defend BMW when zealots attack them with ignorance too. I believe Audi will continue to grow, but I'll make you a bet at the end of 2006 when the sales figures come out after a year of BMW having all their models available you're going to see a much different number for BMW.

I can see it possibly happening. I have a BMW on order and currently own an A4. Audi makes an extremely fine automobile, and their models are getting better by the minute. The upcoming R8 and S5 are great examples of what is to come.

The 5/C/E and 3 all have a substantial amount of history and followers behind them. It will take some great automobiles from Audi/Infiniti etc to change peoples minds as most of us tend to stick to what we know and like. Most people don't like change. IMO the M and G both offer the most bang for the buck in their classes but the history is still not there.

why are you mentionung Infiniti, the Article is about Audi, and please dont compare Infiniti to Audi, not even close

i would agree i dont think "globally" audi is much of a threat as far as passing mercedes and bmw. audi still has a long way to go, and they are saying it will only take a few years, in order to pass bmw and benz globally they would have to be the #1 brand in the US, and every other country, in the US alone they are not even remotely close to being the #1 brand, so what makes them think they can pass the 2 companies that have the largest share worldwide, sounds like pipe dreams to me, but they could always get "closer"

and not just that but adding new models to have as many as bmw and mercedes isnt going to help that much niche models dont sell in great #'s, on top of that both bmw and mercedes have best sellers in the segments they are already in especially bmw, you need to be also the best seller as well realistically i doubt the a4 will ever pass the 3 in sales as it is again way off the 3's sales, the tl is second by a big gap if im correct, followed by the g, and is. the a6 is also a low seller while the 5 is the best selling car in its class. so again pipe dreams just wanted to give more proof

Audi A6 out sells the 5 series in Germany, not sure about the rest of Europe.
And Audi sold more cars in the UK than Merc last year, I think.

"...in order to pass bmw and benz globally they would have to be the #1 brand in the US, and every other country..."

In fact, you're incorrect.

They have already sold more vehicles than Mercedes this year, and they still are, as you said, far from being #1 in the US.

They don't really need us at all. They have China, which is expanding rapidly, and they are easily the best-selling luxury brand there. They have Germany, where they sell as much as Mercedes does in the US. They have England. They could soon become the #1 luxury brand in all of Europe.

You just don't really know much.

i dont know much? you would have to be pretty nieve to think that audi wouldnt have to "at least" take over the us market in many segments to pass bmw and mercedes...lexus infiniti, and acura sell thousands of cars here and are not considered global brands yet. the luxury market in the us is very large, this is where audi is fairing so well so how can they pass a company like BMW that is doin well here and basically everywhere else, not that its impossible but the likelihood is pretty slim. and as far as china Cadillac's and Buick's are very popular there as well, as are again BMW's that was just extremely wishful boasting on audi's part. but hey some people make up things "including sales figures..." to prove that audi could top BMW.....not in the near decade(s)

Did you even read my post? It explained why they DON'T need to be leading in the US. Lexus is leading in the US-- do you see them becoming #1 wolrdwide this year?

nice work "simply repeating what i said in my post, and proving my point" the japanase brands sell well here and are not even considered global the luxury market here is huge audi's sales are not in the big numbers the main luxury brands here are getting if they cant dominate our market how can they dominate internationally, which would include our market....audi's sales are not high enough in any one market to give them the kind of market share needed to say they will soon be the #1 brand...again just pipe dreams...thanks for the help by the way

Exactly!
Europe may be small, but there are more cars built in Germany than in the US. You have to add Canadian figures to US to match German production.
And China and India are where the growth is coming from.
Its cheaper to take a taxi everywhere that you want to go than to own a car in Bejiing, yet people are buying a SECOND car there as a status symbol.
And India is just starting to warm up.
IBM has been hiring thousands of engineers and programmers each month.
Engineers often buy German cars..........

The BMW CEO has nothing on the Lexus IS-F in a 0-60 race. LEXUS IS-F FOREVER!

i knew this was going to start something, oh what the hell, why dont i join. i think that both audi and lexus will overtake bmw and MB if they already haven't.

There are a lot of people here hold there opinions very highly. Including BMW's CEO.

Audi will never take over BMW. A Audi is a fancied up VW they all have the same brake light, ignition coil and peeling interior problems. Then as Audi is trying to make it to the top they drop scheduled service. BMW is the only automobile manufactuer that is PROFITABLE and INDEPENDENT in the world! and lets not get started on the re-badged toyota's and nissan's

Audi has gotten much better lately. I smell a hint of ignorance in the way you describe Audi as a fancied up VW. This simply isn't true.

Josh

What an ignorant comment....

I think audi will do it...but who cares?/

Hey BMW4me4ever:
I loved your quote "Forget the magazines, cause those are opinions anyways and look at the sales numbers. How many m's are sold in the US compared to the 5 & E? It is not even close. By the way, since you bring up magazines and such, the G35 cant even beat out the 325. Did you know that BMW sells more 3-series in the US than Infiniti sells for their entire lineup? Where do these people come from? lmao"
You summed it up perfectly. Where do people like you come from? So let me get your line of reasoning correct: Put aside the judgement of car experts who take these cars to the track and test them every which way and instead, just rely on sales. So put aside a judgement based upon real world data and seat time in all 3 cars and instead judge these cars based on sales. So I guess Britney Spears last album was better than the Black Keys latest. Why? Well, according to you because it sold more. This shows you know absolutely nothing. Real tight logic and argument skills sport!
Face it, the Infinit M beat out the E and 5 when car experts took them to the track and evaluated them exhaustively. But ignore that, because the others sell better. You're a genius!

jman ... you want to get technical about things. Yes the M45 beat out the 530 sedan when it was comparing the V8 vs BMW 6cyl. Look it up. Had they compared the 545 or the now 550 to the M45, it would have even been close. Car & driver 2006 "Predictably, the M45 went from first to last in the sprints — 0-to-60 in 5.9 seconds and the quarter-mile in 14.5 at 100 mph, both times a tad slower than in ’05. It also slipped in skidpad performance, winding up just behind the BMW and just ahead of the Benz at 0.85 g. However, the 19-inch Bridgestone Potenza RE050A sport-package tires did help the M45 to best-in-test braking performance: 160 feet from 70 mph, which is close to sports-car territory." The BMW was over a 1/2 second faster to 60mph , handled better & the braking was within a foot of one another ... ONLY reason it beat the BMW was due to Price in that comparison test .... What are you talking about? Guess what, the BMW 550 still manages to outsell the Infiniti M45 2 to 1. Hell for that matter the 530, outsells the M35 & M45 2 to 1 by itself. BMW is and always will be the #1 sports sedan in the market. Let me know, when Inifinti makes a car to compete with BMW in its class in overall performance & sales, then we can talk about it ....

jamn ... Also, dont bring the sloppy G35 into the sports sedan comment. The G35 is fast but that is about it. Have you actually driven the car hard and pushed it? If not, then go and drive it and you will realize how far the gap between the G35 and 3-series really is. According to the magazines, the G35 lost to not only a 2006 330 sedan, but the 328 sedan just recently. I am guessing it will finish in last compared to the 335 sedan, cause there is no competition

Read the latest Edmunds review of 335 coupe versus G37 coupe where the 335 limped home in shame and then tell me about Infiniti versus BMW performance. Is your head up your ass?
I am glad you abandoned your silly "sales" argument and have come to my side of the argument about peformance. You were starting to look silly.
And a 335i damn well better be superior to a G35 because a similarly equipped G35 is about $7,000 cheaper. And I dare you to pull up at a stop light in your $35,000 328 with a paltry 230hp with vinyl seats and crap stereo next to a $35,000 G35 with 306hp loaded with leather, Bose, etc. You'll get your doors blown off. And the Infiniti won't limp home. You really need to read more sport!

jman ... I read the edmunds report. If I am not mistaken it said that in performance the 335 will be faster to 60 mph and thru the 1/4 mile. Did you miss that part of the article? Of course that entire article is based on speculation and such. Until you put the two side by side and compare, your arguement is frivolous. Talk about reading up on some things. That is the pot calling the kettle black. In regards to the 328 and the G35, in outright performance with a manual transmission there was only 1/2 second difference. Most of that can be made up by how good the driver is. Secondly, I will gladly take the 328 over the G35 on a track. The handling differences will more than compensate for the power differences. " Spending other peoples money is easy, and the BMW definitely demands more. But nothing in our testing indicates that it isnt worth it. The G35 scores points for comfort, capable moves and thrust in surplus, but the BMW still builds the BEST tools for driving." Car & Driver April 2007 ........ enough said.

i think this is the first time i really have ever agreed with you, and that took alot for me to admit it.

If you dont have disearability of an arabian camel, then its just you ,moron. Arabian camels are the toughest in the world.... just thought Id let you know. So shut it. There are some places that no car can pass through, but guess what? A camel can.... your so full of s***. Next time you want to mention camels, dont put arabian before it...

Well, as Ulysses Everett McGill would say, BMW is in a tight spot. Not much rational thinking going on when you are in a tight spot.

how is being #1 or #2 a tight spot, what are you smoking chewy can I get some. you silly daily Audi post trying to prove something, in my opinion Audi is not in the league of BMW or Mercedes, including the Audi R8, just like the BMW CEO I don't consider Audi a threat. I just love those Audi 2015 wanna be #1 post.

How about losing in key markets?

larry - if you dont think Audi is up to par with the those 2 then you are and idiot or just trying to get attention, cause every magazine /car show has audi right there if not beating MB/BMW in comparison tests. Its people like you who are taking the fun out of this site, its becoming a joke with people like you , amazingretard and lexusmoron.


Honestly i dont care if Audi passes them, i dont buy a car because it sells the most cars, i buy it cause i like it not because everyone else has it.

Audi is now #2. They are ahead of Mercedes for the year.

I find it difficult to believe that the VW/Audi will come near BMW's numbers with continued low sales in North America.

Totally agree with BMW CEO. Mercedes are better than BMW, but I like BMW better. And as AMGC55 said, put it his way. Would you see an A4 taking over the 3er and C-Class competition? Would you see an A6 taking over the 5er and E-Class competition? Never. Although Audi have nice cars, they wont be as nice as BMW and Mercedes.

your wrong, the A4 blows the C class away, if you ever drove both you would know that, and the A6 is equal if not better then the 5 series and E class, and the A8 is much nicer then the 7 series although the S is better then both.

this is my order

3 series>A4>Class

5series=A6>e class

S class >A8>7 series

TT>Z4>SLK

X5>Q7>Mclass(looks to much like a minivan)

SLR and R8 are better then any car BMW makes, but you pay a hefty premium for the SLR.

Dont act like audi is 3rd in every class, cause you know there not.

Audi has already surpassed Mercedes-Benz worlwide. If I remember, they sold better for the first two months of the year.

If this continues...

Yep, Audi is poised to take the number 1 spot.

Rememeber, the new Audi A5 and the high-volume A4 redesign are just around the corner and are expected to, for the first time ever, surpass the BMW 3 series in sales in Europe.

Add to that the upcoming Q5 mid-sized SUV, a brand new A8, a revised A6 (which is already outselling the 5 series) and an overall doubling of Audi's model range, and you have a very, very strong case for Audi beating BMW by 2015.

Rememeber, the new A5 (built on Audi's exlusive new MLP platform), goes head-to-head with the 328 coupe (the S5 competes with the 335i), and is more powerful, has rear-biased quattro (more desirable to rear-wheel drive overall), short front overhangs, a vastly superior interior, and better expected reliability. This model represents the beginning of Audi's next major step forward in terms of driving dynamics and refinement that rivals even BMW's superb road qualities.

So, to say that Audi will NEVER take over BMW's sales is arrogant, naive, and ultimately setting the CEO up to look like a putz come 2015 (although he may be dead by then). Audi is already leading in sales on several of its models. Imagine how it will do with a model lineup twice the size, and with the sophistication that the A5/S5's platform (which will span through the A4, A5, A6 & A8) bring to the table.

BMW obviously makes great cars, but it's becoming increasingly obvious that Audi is making better cars, one new model at a time.

you mention all the new cars from audi,but you for got to mention BMW is coming out with just as many new models as audi if not more.

Anim8or
So good to see an intelligent repost to most of the in-articulate garbage that is spewed on this site. Anybody and I mean ANYBODY that knows anything about market dynamics and market variances throughout the history of the Automotive industry knows well that when a Major player or Major players become complacent and self absorbed in their smugness they are surpassed by their competitors in the fullness of time. BMW & MB have had their much publicised issues with QC in the past five years while Audi have made huge strides in QC and product develpoement. This kind of enterprise smugness nearly saw the demise of IBM in the mid 90's. I am not saying that BMW or MB are are at that stage yet, however if they continue to be self-obsessed & smug anything is psooible .... including falling behind their competitors.

Simply put BMW & Mercedes have the name and the game.

And in order for Audi to throw them off their game (a bit), they have to overcompensate and produce a superior product that’s not only more reliable, but at a great reduction in price.

They haven’t done it! And it's easier said than done against a couple of companies that’s not just gonna remain idle.

THEY ALREADY BEAT MERCEDES. READ MY POST, ONLY TWO ABOVE.

How are they doing in the US? In general BMW & Mercedes still sell twice as many cars as them. Even Lexus is more significant.

Unless they beat them in the world’s largest car market, then they’ll always be considered 2nd tier. That maybe US-centric, but that’s the way it is.

And please, don’t give me this --- up 3% sales BS --- like your typical Audi groupie.

THEY HAVEN’T PRODUCED A SUPERIOR PRODUCT, NOR A MORE RELIABLE ONE!

They maybe slightly cheaper, but in my experience, if you’re into ROCK-HARD DEPRECIATION then get an Audi!

Your absolutely right... but they used to sell 3x as many.

Umm, according the US consumer reports, Audi already beats both BMW and of course Mercedes (in last place!) in reliability. So much for your failed reliability argument. Audi residuals are now also as good as BMW's at this point, and with some models, better. So that's a bad argument as well.

As far as US sales go, you are correct. For now. Audi is at the end of recovery over its (still unproven) 'unintended acceleration' nonsense. You are obviously completely oblivious to Audi's massive investment in US branding starting in the middle of 2007. Expect Audi's market share to increase by orders of magnitude over the next 5 years in the US.

Although the US is Audi's largest market, it still is not the world. And Audi can actually reach number 1 in global sales even by not attaining the top premium spot in the US. All Audi needs to do is raise its US market share just by a few points to help it reach #1 internationally. This is a very realistic and attainable goal.

Even with BMW increasing the number its models over the next decade, Audi will actually match BMW's numbers by 2015. This is a huge point. To hypothesize: expanding mathematically on available sales data, if Audi currently had the same number of variants as BMW, it would already be at #1 internationally. That's because Audi is selling as well or better, model-by-model, than BMW.

Will Audi become the top US premium brand by 2015? Probably not; but it will come close. Will Audi become the WORLD'S #1 premium brand by 2015? Yes, I believe so.

Those numbers are only for US sales.
This article is about GLOBAL SALES.
Where Audi is only 1-2% away from BMW. Looooser !!!!

Those numbers are only for US sales.
This article is about GLOBAL SALES.
Where Audi is only 1-2% away from BMW. Already ahead of Mercedes (global, again, remember that if you can, please).

US is the most stupid car market ever... BMW vs Audi is one example, but they are so many more good examples I could waste my whole life writing them down. Just one: useless (inefficient) 4L (+) V8 that can barely move a car .. droven by old ladies with 10 mph under the speed limit. Such a waste of gas, money, oxigen, life etc ..

In fact, the US isn't Audi's largest market.

Germany and England are both more significant, if you count Germany as a market for them (homeland).

This is exactly what sent Ford, GM and the rest down the tubes.

Arrogance. Stupid, ignorant, karmic arrogance.

If BMW's top brass don't rid themselves of this mindset, the metaphorical Toyota will surpass them.

This is, in a way, sitting back. They're saying, "Audi will never be as good as us." They're not backing it up, they're just being arrogant.

Which is what GM did.

Watch your back, Reithofer. I would.

Great looking and completely barnd new products (like the S5 pictured) will help with sales increase.

Never say never. But unless you're a German auto executive, drive what pleases you, not what pleases others.

Audi's sales have been going up %-wise so well because they have been introducing brand new models. The were the last of the big guns to have an SUV, they're only just about to have a coupe, the R8 will contribute virtually nothing to overall sales figures.

Once they have a model in every niche (like MB do) there growth will slow. And remember these are statistics... the more you sell the harder it is to show big % gains.

I do think Audi will catch up BMW and MB eventually, but between the 3 of them I doubt anybody will streak ahead in sales terms.. they'll just end up squabbling over stupid cross-cross-over-platform-sharing-cross-overs in all kinds of foreign markets.

... and lets remember, just because you sell the most, doens't mean that you are best!

To Anim8or:

Audi traditionally sold more cars in Europe than BMW. It is the opposite lately since BMW overtook Audi in Europe few years ago. So Audi is trying to catch up again. Won't be any spectacular if they catch & overtake BMW again.

Audi have plans to sell approx. 70,000 units of Q7 annually, and approx. 40,000 of A5. Production limits are set a bit higher - but really just a bit. So do not expect due A5 Audi will boost sales by much. 40,000 = aprox 5% of Audi annual sales.

You are forgetting BMW are not standing still. Audi prediction by 2015 is over-pretentious. They have no idea what eg. BMW & MB are doing.

BMW Group eg. will reach 1.5 million bar in 2008 already (1.3 million BMW vehicles, 200k MINI). I'm more then sure BMW brand will be able to grow 15% till 2015 to reach 1.5 million bar. In 7 years that's not a hard job. Especially with new models coming: 1er 3dr hatch (mind that 3dr hatches are the hottest segment in Europe), X6 SportsActivityCoupe, F5 LuxurySportsCruiser, F3 CompactSportsCruiser, Z2, X4 SAC, X1 SAV, Z8 successor, 4dr coupe (Z9 / 8er), ...

Audi has a momentum, and they will do anything to attract the attention: even with such pretentious claims as "We will be leaders by 2015".

Btw, new Audi CEO has soften the predictions saying Audi would be leaders in "quality of products, quality of service, and brand image, and not necessary in sales numbers". And even that is pretentious. Audi CEO claiming Audi to have best brand image among all luxury brands (incl BMW, MB, Lexus, Maserati, Bentley, Jaguar etc)! What a stupid & pretentious little guy.

Another stupid flame war. For what? Because some stupid jackass said that Audi will NEVER overtake BMW or Mercedes globally.And some people are acting here like audi doesn't have any heritage. Audi has been out for long time. Educated people who know something about audis history will claim that many other car companies are not on the same level as audi and not the other way round as some morons on autospies think. And I will post this link again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2yPEB1GVRo

So next time for all those audi bashers learn something before you post moronic comments.
And don't think that i wanted to bash any brand. Mercedes and BMW have also great heritage and hopefully they will be doing fine in the future.

In my opinion,one of the problems is that Audi doesen't offer RWD.A lot of people buy RWD,including myself because of the sport handling.If Audi wants to fight with BMW or Mercedes they have to offer,at least optional RWD vehicles.
Another issue is that they use 80%,if not more,of the mechanics on all VW group cars.The only thing different is the chassis in some cases,the design of course and the much better interior in the Audi but for me is not enough.They're good cars,no question about it but they have to do more.

I agree with Kostin,

I would like to get an a6, and live in a warm climate. However, I don't want to have to lug around the additional 300 pounds (I love quattro, but there's also a price premium.)

Audi makes wonderful cars, but the brand perception needs improvement as well. I believe this is possible. Hopefully this competition will give birth to awesome cars.

lewis- unless you are tracking your A6, which if you planned on tracking it why would you get a A6, you would not feel the Extra weight. 300 pounds in a daily driver is nothing, so your comment is plain stupid.

"Another issue is that they use 80%,if not more,of the mechanics on all VW group cars."

I don't know where to start, that's so wrong.

So I'm not going to.

Let me just give it to you this way- the only car in their lineup that is 100% based on a VW, unfiltered, is the A3. And I own one, in addition to the S4. It's easily the best small car I've ever had, and one of the best on the road. 2.0T DSG!

Most Germans (CEO's included) have an over-boosted sense of their own personal gravity.

well BMW's CEO should feel that way because he is incharge of such a well oiled corporate machine, the worlds larges premium auto maker. He is also the only non american to be on microsofts board of directors, so this man has power. His BMW brand owns rolls royce arguably the worlds most luxurous brand, and mini one of the best premium small car brands. BMW also has its own formula one team as of last year, and they should be challening for the wins,and maybe the championship next year.(considering there impressive winter perfromace this year).But anyway what better form of addvertisment is there for a premium car manufacture than formula one,which on the average brings in close to a billion viewers per race. I think BMW's CEO is sleeping pretty well at night.

cs, his name is "munich." You think he knows a thing or two about BMW?

BMW owns Rolls-Royce. Volkswagen owns Bentley.

more corrections....

volkswagen owns lamborghini.
bmw's top flight cars cost far more than the s-class base price of $87K (the 760Li rolls out at over $130K loaded, the M6 at $110...
oh, and china has 1.3 billion not 2 billion people.

No, Audi owns 100% of Lamborghini. It is part of Audi AG. VW did not buy Lamborghini s.p.a., Audi did.

ok, you had me there for a second. checked VW.com.

"In Western Europe, the largest car market in the world, nearly every fifth new car (19.9 percent) comes from the Volkswagen Group. Group sales rose in 2006 to 104.9 billion Euros (2005: 95.3 billion). Profit after tax in the 2006 financial year amounted to 2.75 billion Euros (2005: 1.12 billion)

The Group is made up of eight brands from six European countries: Volkswagen, Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, SEAT, Škoda and Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles."

I bet every Lexus fan on this website drives an 1995 Toyota Corrolla with a L on the hood and an IS badge on the back. Talk about class.

RICEMASTER:

Audi sales in China are determined by production capability of Audi China plants. So are BMW Chinese sales.

Vast majority of BMW & Audi sales in china are locally produced cars - since they are much more affordable than heavily taxed imported vehicles of same brands.

Audi production facilities are much larger then BMW ones. Therefore also more Audi cars sold.

Yet, in April 2007 BMW will start to build new factory in China - with production capacity of 50,000 units per year (current factory is able to produce 30k unites annually). So BMW will increase production capacity by 166% - and sales will follow production.

You can't sell more cars than you are able to produce it. That's obvious.

Also: BMW production capabilities worldwide are much bigger than Audi ones. And further expansions are planned: for existing & upcoming vehicles. So ...

BMW CEO knows what he is saying. He knows what media & Audi don't: till 2015 BMW will launch at least 11 new core models (1er 3dr, 1er coupe, 1er cabrio, X6, F5, F3, X4, X1, Z2, Z8/Z10, Z9/8er), not counting M variants.

Mind BMW Group plans to sell 1.6 million vehicles by 2010, and 1.8 million by 2014 (at least 1.5 BMW vehicles among them).

Yes, Audi is growing & getting stronger. Yet their predictions a a bit too pretentious. And that's what Herr Reithofer wants to say.

Also: currently the real global premium players are BMW & MB - with luxury image around the globe. While Audi, Lexus, Infinti etc. are strong & recognized on some particular markets only, yet not globally. Some brands like eg Lexus, Infiniti, Acura Cadillac are not even present globally.

When you speak of around the globe it sounds like you've done some traveling. I've been around the globe...twice and I can tell you, as an automotive enthusiast, Audi is very much respected as a luxury vehicle maker. Is there room for improvment? Always. But IMHO, after test driving the new S-Class, I still prefer my A8L. Its a subjective choice so I don't want to hear that Im crazy or stupid. The car just fits my style better. I live in the NYC area and I just can't identify with those guys in their 7's and S-classes. I'm not even saying there is anything wrong with them. Great cars, every one. I'm just glad Audi exists. I wish them continued success and look forward to their new models.

Of course Audi is considered a premium brand, yet not Tier 1 brand in ALL markets worldwide (like MB & BMW). In some markets Audi is still considered as a "second league premium" - eg. US market.

Talking about brand image, of course, not products. Audi make superb cars, no doubt. And the company is healthy & ambitious. And strong & healthy competition is always a good thing. It will also force MB, BMW, Lexus etc to build better cars - and that's a situation when one party wins: a customer.

Audi obviously is a volkswagen - volkswagens are very ordinary cars. Audi A6 is very close to the 3er/C-Class area but will still miss every time. I have driven in all of them, C350, 330i and A4 3.2 V6. The A6 is also I think equal with the 5er and the E-Class beats them all. But Audi won't catch up against BMW and Mercedes unless both BMW and Mercedes stuff up badly.

Please tell me, how is Audi obviously a VW?

The A4 and A6 are built on their own Audi-exclusive platforms (B7, C6, and the upcoming MLP platforms), that have NOTHING to do with the Jetta's and Passat's platforms. So how exactly are Audi's VW's?

And if you think that Audi's 3.2 FSI V6 is the same as VW's 3.2, think again. The Audi 3.2 FSI (now with ValveLift) is an all-aluminum direct-injection longitudinal engine rated at 265 hp. The Audi 3.2 is a steel-bodied conventionally injected transverse engine rated at 250hp. Totally different, despite the same label.

The A4 and A6's drivetrain, steering, suspension, and basically any other significant mechanical component is completely different from a VW (e.g, Audi's rear-biased Torsen quattro is totally different from VW's front-drive biased Haldex AWD.)

So again, how is an Audi a VW? As far as the A4 and A6 go, it is not.

The one model that Audi shares platform technology with VW is the entry-level A3 (based on the GTI and and R32). That's about it. And please don't mention the A8/Phaeton Q7/Toureg sharing. The all-steel Phaeton is based on the A8's vastly superior aluminum chassis, but Audi designed the original platform.

Of course platform sharing is a great idea, but Audi has done well to stay ahead of VW with its own pioneering platform technology. Even the R8, which is supposed to be based on a Lambo, is actually originally designed by Audi and has a completely different ride and feel.

Anyway, creates cars in its own factories with its own design and engineering teams. The same cannot be said of Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura.

Cool down man, so many stupid guys around ... they don't know s..t about cars, they only see some number and that's it. Forget about the whole discussion here .. useless .. People should check the statistics, numbers I mean. For last year Audi was second after BMW, better then MB, but nobody sees that, no ... Audi is a semi - luxury class, can compete with the only luxury class car (in their stupid mind BMW and MB).

They keep talking non sense, don't worry, they will shut up when the stupid CEO from BMW figures it out. He probably didn't get the last year global report, like everybody else.

Correction:

I Meant:

"The ***VW*** 3.2 is a steel-bodied conventionally injected transverse engine...."

And not:

"the ***Audi*** 3.2 is a steel-bodied conventionally injected transverse engine...."

And the Q7 shares more parts with the Cayenne than the Touareg. And the TT is made of 58% by weight aluminium.

another 001 BMW love article

MB is close to overtaking BMW and Audi is not that far behind

in the USA BMW is leading the luxury industry with over $5,500 incentive on each car. you can't buy marketshare for ever

Audi is ahead of Mercedes.

Your comment should be...

Audi is close to overtaking BMW and Mercedes is not far behind.

I beleive that BMW's are drivers car. BMW & Mercedes are better balanced cars. Audi are not just there yet. Great interiors, poor reliability. I drive an A6 4.2 and very disapointed.

What year do you own? I had a 2000 A6 2.7T quattro- no reliability problems.

I am now on my fourth Audi. Reliability experiences have been as good as my wife's two Lexuses.

BTW, I disagree with you on the "better-balanced" cars issue. BMW makes great sport sedans... but the interiors are disappointing. Not as relaxing to ride in as an Audi or Mercedes. On the other hand, Mercedes cars aren't as sporty as their Audi competitors. Audi is a quite good mix of sportiness and luxury, IMO.

Finally... Mercedes, as of now, has the worst reliability in the car industry. Audi reliability is now ahead of BMW, Porsche, Land Rover, Jaguar, and of course, Mercedes-Benz.

You replied earlier to my comment and said that the A3 is the only car with the same mechanics.I like Audi and I am not biased against Audi in any way because i strongly belive that competion will give birth to better and better cars so it's in the customer's benefit but what i've said is based on facts and not on what i think.The A4's platform is the same as VW Passat,Skoda Superb and Seat Toledo,the A3 is the same as the Golf V,Seat Leon and Skoda Octavia II.The A6 uses less parts due to it's size but the engines are the same you find on VW,Skoda and Seat.The A8 uses the same platform and engines as the Phaeton(except the aluminium chassis).The Q7 shares many parts and all the engines with the Touareg.In Europe,most of the VAG group parts are sold in white boxes printed with all the four logos and a code that fits all four.In China,the Passat is a combination between the Skoda Superb and the new Audi A6.It has A6 taillights (identical),Superb headlights and interior and a Passat grille.Even some of the interior controls are used on all four brands and you can look at the cruise control stick and wipers control on all 4 brands.They're identical and have exactly the same code.I have a long experience with the group because me and my family owned and still own many Passats,Golfs,A6 and Skodas because my brother works for Skoda,my sister-in-law works for VW-Audi and we get large discounts.The only reason i bought my C-Klasse is that i owned a Passat before it and wanted something different,with RWD and i couldn't afford a BMW because it was a new released model in 2005 and it was much more expensive than my Mercedes bought with a large discount.

That's why I love my audi - give me the exact compromise I need between sport and luxury. It has both of them, in such a good level I can not complain about anything. Of course BMW M3 is 5% sportier then the S4, but that's also in the price difference, it's all nice and fair. About luxury I am not sure if at the C class level we can say the MB is better than the A4. The C class (not the new one I didn't see it yet) was inferior to the last 2 generation A4 (smaller interior - volume, ride not extremely confortable). I use to have a 2001 C class, drove it for about 10k miles, than I switched to Audi and that's it. I also tried a few 3/5 series, but I can't live with that interior. The car looks great from outside (all BMW, Audi and MB do) but on I "usually" spend my time driving from inside of the car - BMW interior it's not appealing to me, not at all. Far far away from Audi, far away from MB.
On the other side, the S class its a true luxury car, I find it as best in its class, although I would still go for an A8 - for the same reason like ever: I like my car to have it all: luxury and sportiness. Again, don't get me wrong, in my own opinion the S is much classy and luxurious, and again that is reflected in its price.

My stupid comments should be a few post above, as the answer to S4cabriofoxone. I forgot to click on the right REPLY link ..

The A4 shares no platform with any other VW group car. It used to, 8 years ago.
The Q7 shares 17% of parts with the Touareg,but it shares more parts with the Cayenne.
The A8 has a completely different chassis from the Phaeton, it shares engines and gearboxes with the Phaeton.
The A6 uses 2 engines from other VW group cars (the 2.0 fsi and the 2.0 tdi).

kostin you hava e no clue what you are talking about, the A4 uses its own platform as does the A6. Please get your info correct.

People make statements that have no bearing. An Audi is not a VW. Audi are the ones who make most of the engineering triumphs for the group. As someone stated earlier - the R8 is not a Gallardo wearing an Audi badge. For one thing there characters are different and for two - as the Top Gear article posted on this site stated - Audi was the ones who helped Lamborghini to design all of their vehicles since they bought them. Here is the difference - VW owns Audi and shares in expertise and certain parts to save cost. VW bought Audi a generation ago. The difference is that Toyota invented Lexus - Nissan/Infinit and Honda/Acura. There is a big difference.

Kostin,
The car parts typically have 3 symbols on them:
VW
Audi
Porsche
Even my VW truck's parts almost all say Porsche on them.

When slamming Audis for being part VW, remember that every Porsche out there is somewhere between partly and mostly (Cayenne) VW too!

While this seems to be a Heated topic.. In Asia (Korea, India, Thailand) beinge explicit examples because i i vsisited them) Audi has a better rep/presence then BMW . While out here in the US its vice versa

While this seems to be a Heated topic.. In Asia (Korea, India, Thailand) beinge explicit examples because i i vsisited them) Audi has a better rep/presence then BMW . While out here in the US its vice versa

Audi's are still good cars, but BMW and Mercedes beat them nearly all the time.

Audi's are still good cars, but BMW and Mercedes beat them nearly all the time.

Audi's are still good cars, but BMW and Mercedes beat them nearly all the time.

sorry, computer wasn't loading and i got a bit annoyed and pressed it down harder. Anyway, sorry if my comment about audis being volkswagen was stupid but they still aren't as good as merc or bmw's. There are two types of high-class cars. Luxury Cars and Sport Cars. BMW = Sport Cars. Mercedes = Luxury Cars. Audi = Luxury a bit, but still trying hard and going no where with all new pointless models.

i know a friend who drives an A6, and his wife traded in a BMW 330ci coupe for a Q7 but then was dissapointed with it badly and then bought an ML 500. SOme audi's are good, but the Q7 has in a way gone wrong and so will the A5.

Gone wrong? Because 1 friend doesn't like it? And you can of course can predict how the A5 will do.
And as for Audi's pointless new models, which ones would they be? Mercedes has the most useless models, with way too much overlap, and BMW will have MPVs soon, and a coupe-like SUV, which is the most pointless vehicle ever.

As I read the comments of BMW's CEO and some of the fans on this site - I wonder if GM and Ford would have thought Toyota would one day take over? Hasn't anyone learned to never say never? 50 years ago was China's economy predicted to be growing so boldly? When you get arrogant and don't respect your competition you will eventually stumble. Audi vehicles have consistently improved in every way over the past 20 years - financially, performance-wise, quality of materials, engineering prowess, and sales. The gap has closed considerably.... if you said it would be this way 15 years ago - most people would have said you were wrong. As far as reliability goes - none of the Germans are great (as opposed to their quality)- and for the record Mercedes is actually the worst - and that is a measureable fact (go to any reliability index and look it up). To say who will lead is something no one can predict - but to be arrogant can only lead to a fall - it's the same thing in war.

3>A4>C
E=5=A6
S>A8=7
Z4>TT>SLK
R8>6>SL

That is correct!!!

I would not be so sure! Audi is getting better and better!

Step back and look at the BIG picture:
What does it take to get "better" in general (quality, reliability, performance, etc.) ?????????????

It takes engineering. What engineering resources are available????

BMW has great engineering, plus ... ???.

Benz has great engineering, plus ... AMG & Chrysler???

Audi has great engineering, plus VW & Lambourghini

VW has the largest automotive engineering team and budget in Europe ... almost largest in the world. In fact, for R&D spending VW is one of the tops of ALL companies in the world (in all businesses)

So, who has the capabilities to have the best product in 15 years? Based on todays resources and cash budgets, Audi (with VW's continued backing) clearly has a huge advantage over both BMW and MB.

Simple economic facts.

But keep in mind that buyers don't purchase cars based on real quality, reliability, or even facts. Look at the ads on TV. Many are computer-generated fantasies with no relationship to reality!

Audi has a vision to be the most profitable premium car manufacturer in the world by 2015.
A vision is an over-riding idea of what the organization should be and often reflects the dream of the management or its leader. Is this vision realistic? I think it is.
They have a strategy in place which focuses on great engineering, appealing design and excellent product workmanship with contemporary technology based manufacturing process and products which combine sportiness and elegance with safety and security. BMW and Mercedes also have a similar strategy but they are not as passionate and focused in meeting a well quantified vision as Audi and hence the “execution” of their strategy is not as effective. Audi‘s strategy has helped narrow profitability gap with its key competitor BMW and Mercedes and this clearly evident if you look at last 5 years performance.
I am not sure, and it really does not matter, if audi cars will win the most awards or have the highest sales or have the best service dealerships globally. And it will not matter whether BMW or Audi or any other matter will make the most hair raising sport cars ever built. But one thing is for sure. Audi is slowly and surely “upping the ante” and quality, reliability, performance, sales and service. They also have the resources of the VW to bank on to realise the vision. And all this will, in the long term, translate into one of the most profitable premium auto manufacturer

BMW and Mercedes will be foolhardy to believe that Audi is a not a competition. In 10 years time, it will not come as a surprise if BMW or Mercedes will be proud to have made cars better than an Audi because Audi will be the “benchmark” against which premium automobiles will be judged.