2009 Lexus GS-F with V10?

Stop shouting.

3,2,1 Flame war go!

More good news for people that want quality, performance and reliability with their vehicles. Its funny how Lexus keeps moving up with their models, while the badge whore's cars of choice keep going downmarket with their cars
(1 series, minivan, B class etc.)

The Mercedes AMG series is a step up.

Check into them!

NOBODY CARES ABOUT RELIABILITY WITH A 500HP SEDAN!!!

Stop with the endless dribble, please. All we hear is, "RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY." If these cars weren't "quality" vehicles, why do you think they'd have $90,000 pricetags? Certainly not for thte badge!

If, only if, lexus reaches BMW / Audi / Mercedes levels with their image and brand name - because that is what they want, so don't come telling me prestige is not important - only then they will start thinking about going down market; because the more popular the car, the larger the market, and the harder the competition ( obviously because there are more people buying...) besides, only very few retards buy a car based on its horsepower numbers, the normal rest actually care how it drives ( look at the 355 hp 911 carrera S )

"Mromar, the only car that Lexus shares with Toyota is the ES and Camry."

Wrong.

ES is based off of Camry.

So is RX.

GX is based off of 4Runner.

LX is based off of Land Cruiser.

Only a fool spends $90,000 on a vehicle with sub-par reliability.

last time i checked these cars come with a warranty, and the people who buy these would not keep then past the warranty because they will buy the newer version once it comes out.

My friends father just traded in his RS6 in for a new S8, people get bored and want a new car, most people in this catorgory do not keep cars past 50k or more than 4 years.

just like nobody cares if a super sedan is good in the wet.

stupid badge whores!

I have a hard time taking seriously comments from people who can't speak and spell- is it just me?

What are Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep?

It's about time!

And is that a reputable website?

Right, that's what every car fan says about their favorite brand.

yeah, why would you ever want a brand that has a history of strong performance vehicles when you could have Lexus' first try at the performance segment?

Idiot.

You say the GS will be legendary. It's too bad it's competition has been there and done that.

I need you to look up something for me with you extra lucidity and magical crystal ball, can you do that for me? please...

all those BMW buyers are just badge whores! just ask david999. he'll set you straight.

450 horsepower went get you anywhere near the M5,RS6,E63.

It doesn't matter even if it has 800 horsepower, it will still not have that magical "passion and soul" according to those in the know.

Too little power but the current platform of the GS won't be able to handle 500+ so i guess that's why they're going with 450. With the next platform they should make sure it can withstand in the 500-550 range.
But you can't blame them for not trying. Unlike other brands who are content with where they are now, Lexus is moving forward.

Well in a way they are playing catch up, but considering they've been in the market as long as they have it's a great accomplishment. The business part of Lexus is an amazing accomplishment.
Why the heck did everyone deeboost me because i said the current GS can't handle 500+ horsepower. I think i should now how good the car is considering i own one.

Since a lot of autospies users seem to think the M5 is hand made by God and sent to Earth via a group of his favorite angels, a F line GS might be a failure before it even hits the autoshow stages.

However, to the unbiased masses of car fans in the real world, such a Lexus would be a welcome addition to the sport sedan party.

It is funny how the fact that Toyota is the parent company of Lexus, seems to generate debate among the badge whores. Using that logic, Ferrari is somehow diminished in status because Fiat is their parent company.

But no ferraris are based on Fiats, unlike some Lexi.

there is a huge difference between how fiat/Ferrari works, as opposed to how toyota/lexus does!
just take a look at some japanese toyotas,and lexus-which btw was not even sold in japan until recently, proof that it's just marketing- they are blatant copies of one another...
have you ever seen a ferrari with anything remotely ressembling a fiat? even the company management is totally different in the two cases... Ferrari/fiat works more like Porsche/VW, with even less sharing!

I’ll be more interested in this topic when “circulation” is being driven by a more credible source. Somehow, AutoBlog citing "web circulation" with their source citing nothing, all paired with an amateur photoshop… it doesn’t really grab my attention yet. It makes sense that it’s in the works; but I’m not buying this.

Technology is shared between parent and sub companies all the time. This, however, is not always a good thing. Look what Mercedes did for Chrysler.

mercedes gave old generation technologies to chrysler because chrysler can't afford to pay for the new ones, and had they not used something worth selling from merc, they would have been in a worse condition than GM/Ford, and the US economy would have suffered even more... so basically merc saved a few jobs, so get of ur high horse and be thankful... what did chrysler do in return, they dragged merc down to a point where they are trying to sell but no one is really even remotely interested .......

You should be the GM of Mercedes.

Why does Lexus even bother they will never be in the same league as BMW, Mercedes, or Audi. They might as well go back to there league of Acura and Infinity.

F it.

Let's just have everyone in the whole world drive a BMW or Benz. Would that make you German only idiots happy?

I think not.

Why does having a choice in the marketplace bother you guys?

You know this can reach a thousand posts, but people will still like Lexus and people will still like the German brands. And that is a very fine thing.

Audi/BMW/Mercedes and Lexus all make amazing products. If you disagree, you are a moron who is most definately not an "enthusiast" in the slightest.

WE AGREE. We know the GS-F will be a competitor!

BUT WE HATE THE COMMENTS! Do you not notice all of the LEXUS idiots who claim supremacy, when the very existence of this concept is not confirmed?

They're just as bad as the worst German fans!

LexusKing says, "GS-F will be the best." What is that based on? NOTHING!!!

Just ignore the stupid Lexus fans!

Please everyone, ignore the crazy Lexus posters or appreciate them for the comedy they provide.

No he said the Yatis had 500hp but it was quoted as less because apparently in Europe they tax cars by hp.
That was news to me as I just renewed my car tax in europe and it was based on emissions.

facts and existence of a car are things only a badge whore would expect.
lexus will put everyone out of business!

this will be the best car ever made. it will be superior to every car on the road in every way possible.

"Let's just have everyone in the whole world drive a BMW or Benz. Would that make you German only idiots happy?"

that's funny....because it very accurately describes the lexus nuts in here. they consistently proclaim every new lexus product the king of its segment without any facts and before anyone even sees/drives the car.

and let's not forget that benz and bmw each outsell lexus 3 to 1 worldwide.

I love to see Lexus becoming more sporty!!
Because I'm young, I hated the "floating" feelings.
If the F division makes the car more raw,
It will be a great alternative from the Germans.

I can't wait for the IS-F, M3, and RS5 fighting for my garage spot!!!!!!!!!

Lexus is trying so hard to force its way into the high performance car arena when it was first created to be the luxury brand for toyota. You can't just put big engines in your existing cars and say that they can take on cars like the BMW M5 or Merc E63 when those two companies have had multiple generations of those cars and continually refined them into road burning monsters. I think the lexus' will be successful but have problems that will have to be ironed out, people will attracted to the price and lexus quality, probably less hardcore people who want a fast car.

Competition is good. It makes the market better. Show your allegiance, thats fine. If you are going to talk s***, at least back it up with some factual evidence. Lets not start the playground game of "my dad can beat your dad." Show SOME intelligence. Thats why this site exists.

There is no competition you moron. The only competition Lexus has is itself. All Lexus is trying to do is provide the customer with an alternative. Let's face it, Lexus vehicles are known for technology that benefits the luxury side of things rather than the sporty side. Introducing an 'F' version simply offers customers a sportier version of their vehicles.

It just happens that whenever Lexus comes up with such offerings, shitforbrains like for you, for some reason get insecure about it.

Thanks for continuing your parade of ignorance.

That's fine if you really think Lexus does not compete with the Germans. If you asked the execs at BMW or Mercedes they would tell you otherwise.

Since Acura debuted in 1986, the Japanese luxury makes have had pretty nice success to put it mildly. The majority of money spent on their products would have gone to Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Cadillac.

If you think Lexus/Infiniti/Audi are not competition then you have all the business smarts of the GM board of directors.

Make that the FORD board. GM is at least making moves that show some sort of pre-human intelligence.

Booyakasha!

Im a big fan of the GS, if they do make a "F" model, hopefully Lexus won't rice it out like the IS - F.

lol

I like GS but if Lexus just shed some weight from it, it would be great.Hopfully F treatment will.
BTW idea is aggressive. Lexus is really serious this time with Sport as I said many times.
Expect to see a monster/beast soon.

German fans don't under estimate them.and stop bashing/hating Lexus.Grow up.

JUGNU

Nay-sayers like you are awesome.

You piss-off the innovative thinkers of the world with dumb comments like that, forcing them to work hard to prove you wrong.

Thanks.

"Never" is a strong word. In the car industry, anything is possible.

I'm sure a big crew of Mercedes fans were saying BMW would "never" surpass Mercedes in worldwide sales.

And, about RS6 handling. The RS4 handles better than the E46 M3, why not the RS6?

"If there is one car I'm looking forward too, it's the new RS6. It won't handle as good as an M5, you know that but it will be at least as quick."

This i do not agree with, look at all the comparisons between the S6 and M5, all said the S6 was the better handling car and the track times prove it. The M5 acceleration times are alot faster but the S6 only a .1 sec behind on the track.

But i do agree with the rest, the GS will just not compete.

jmr, look at my comment, just above.

i saw that but you talked about the RS4, i was saying the S6 faired very well even though it was underpowered compared to the M5

I mean the car looks good, I love the wheels but the grill could be changed a little. However claims from the Lexus fans are outrageous. "SUPER SEDAN?" "GS WILL BE LEGENDARY".

It's competition has been there and done that. Plus I thought that Lexus was about reliability and fuel economy w/ hybrids. How are it's consumers going to feel about a V10 in the lineup?

Lexus different tier than the German's.

Tier 1: Audi/BMW/Mercedes
Tier 2: Acura, Infiniti, Lexus

So you'd be more impressed by a BMW 318ti than a GS hybrid? That's what your tier system dictates you to believe.

I'm obviously not the biggest Lexus fan here, but that's your personal tiering system. Apparently, the true US tiers are...

Tier 1: Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz

Tier 2: Acura, Infiniti, Saab, Volvo

(I forgot where Cadillac goes)

The worst part about it for you idiots is that you right, most Lexus models until recently have been badged as Toyota's in Japan and the Lexus devision is less than 20 years old. Thats almost like a high school kid kicking more butt than Michael Jordan in every aspect of the game, but your still screaming MJ's better because he has more championship rings...

Lexus never said anything about 450hp. This is just a silly guess from Vince Burlap.

A V10 hybrid would be a great set-up in the future. Imagine great quality, power, reliability and fuel economy all in one package.

QUALITY QUALITY QUALITY QUALITY BLAH BLAH BLAH

I feel like I am a kid again and watching channel 11. They have 4 boxes and highlight what does not belong. 1. Quality 2. Great Power 3. Reliability 4. Great Fuel economy ( psst #4 doesnt belong ) .... David how great fuel economy does the Lexus GS450h get? In the last comparison test they averaged about 18 mpg.

One more time:

If your car has a higher top speed than mine, can do a 1.0G turn, and has an airbag for your crotch, it really doesn't matter if the thing doesn't work.

You can poo poo reliability and build quality all you want. But, if it was so trivial a thing, then why can't Mercedes do it at least as well as Lexus. Why doesn't BMW lead the consumer reports/JD Power rankings year after year. After all, they have way more experience building cars then Lexus does. Right?

It's that attitude that has doomed the Detroit big 3, and eventually some of our favourite Euro brands.

you forgot to mention the magical "passion and soul" factor.

answer ... you are correct that BMW is not on top of Jd power and consumer reports. How many years in a row has the BMW 3-series been picked by car & driver as 10best cars? 16 ... Is there a Lexus that has been in 10best that many no. How many years has the BMW 3-series been picked in Automobile's top 10? I will let you find the answer. 10best cars and automobile magazines top 10 is based on ergonomics, performance, reliability, value ... Last time I checked BMW builds the best sports sedans on the market. They are the reason Lexus updated the IS to the IS250/IS350, or the update to the GS350/430/450h, or many other to name a few. Why do you think Lexus is building the f-line?


Just like Lexus put the European cars on their heels about 15 years ago. Toy/Lex came onto the market in a strong manner pushing Customer satisfaction in service and set new standards for how people should be treated and such. The Euro makers became complacent and more or less sat back and watched the Japanese brands start to take over. With that being said, in the last 5 or 6 years the Euro dominance re-emerged and has taken over. Now Lexus is playing catch up in the performance segment after they have realized that there is a very big market for this type of car. One thing you cant do, especially in this segment, is drop big engines in and expect to compete right away. It will take them some time to be competitive. I do believe Lexus can be, but not right now.

But, if you had the ability to, wouldn't you make your cars just as reliable and free of minor defects as the competition? If for no reason other than to remove that selling point from your competitor.

Good post.

That's what I don't uderstand about some people here. If Lexus made the Euro brands improve their build quality, and the Euro brands are now making Lexus strive for more exciting vehicles, then isn't that a good thing?????????

I think so.

You don't understand something, either.

IT WON'T NOT WORK.

I drive over forty miles a day, to and fro downtown, with my S4. I haven't had a single problem.

Lexus does have better reliability (although not in my personal experiences- my wife's car and my car are equal; that's a different story), but that does not mean German cars have BAD reliability. Their engines never stop working, and they will always get you from A to B in comfort, style and speed.

This is a reply to "answer." Don't know why it's here.

These website glitches suck.

This is a reply to "answer." Don't know why it's here.

These website glitches suck.

and anyone who doesn't realize that this is the best car ever is just a....badge whore!

Well, have you ever considered the possibility that the way the car drives is more important to us than the one time it goes to the shop in a year?

And that maybe it's not quite possible to have the PERFECT car? A Lexus LS460 might be super-reliable and packed with tech... but it doesn't handle as well as an Audi A8, BMW 7 Series or Mercedes S-Class. Does that mean it's worse? Maybe, to some people. Does that mean it's better? Maybe!

It all depends on what you find important! Some of you only mention "reliability/'quality'" in your ficticious list of why Lexus is the best brand in the world. What is "quality?" So vague. Could it be the "quality" of the wood trim in the vehicle? The "quality" of the handling and steering feel? The "quality" present in the damping around the cabin? And, all of that is arguable!

To sum up... a lot of you find reliability important, and handling less so. On the other hand, we like the way our cars drive, first and foremost. We don't give a rat's @ss that our BMW's radio needs to be fixed one day or that one of our Audis' speedometer freezes (which did, ironically, happen to my wife's old RX300). Any disappointment from a faulty electronic in one of our cars quickly fades when we get back behind the wheel. And, just to let you know, engineering faults are very few. I've never had one in any of my German cars.

AARGH!

This is for "answer" again!

001, the "reply" button is so frustrating! Half of the time it puts my posts in the middle of nowhere!

but being a badge whore is even more damning!

reliability is where the passion is at!

i'm with you david. reliability rules! only the stupid badge whores don't realize this.

you're so right again david! buying cars should be based on reliability first and foremost. not passion or fun-to-drive factors like handling. that's for badge whores!

Wow! Auto spies have alot of idiots on both sides of the spectrum. I find it sad that there are people who already deem the IS-F a failure before it gets reviewed. Then there some jackasses who just call the whole F-line a failure, you guys do know that there is a LF-A? I don't expect Lexus to change the world, but you German car fans should be worried! Lexus is actually 'testing' right now, we see how testing got Lexus to forefront of automotive technology...

In the short period of its existence, Lexus did big things that Hyundai is jealous of. So for all the ignorant German car fans (there are some smart ones), you humor me

How about mentioning the Lexus fans who are claiming the entire (non-existent) "F-Line" will RULE THE WORLD? The ones who are already saying Lexus will be the premier sports sedan maker? Why not mention them?

As the hybrid system is perfected in the future, fuel economy will get better. Do not be surprised when the Euro brands start using these engines in a Porsche for example. Of course, they will have to figure out how to make one that works, or they can just ask Toyota how it's done right.

A V10!?!?!?! That's exciting news!

Did you say the same when the M5 and S6 were announced to have V10s?

Yes, actually. I did. When it came out, I wasn't on this web site so I didn't say it on here, obviously. But still, that's the M-Series, they've been around for a while. Lexus is introducing their F-Series and so it's exciting to hear what cars they turn into high performance vehicles.

You know, I had to shake my head in disbelief whenever people here diss Lexus. These people come up with excuses as to why Lexus cannot compare to MB/BMW. An old excuse was that it lacks in the area of “performance”. The problem with that argument nowadays is Lexus will soon be offering high-performance cars. The BMW/MB/Audi fanboys know this and they surely don’t like it. But there’s nothing these poor schmucks can do about it. So, they’d resort to plan B – they’d claim Lexus does not have the “history” and therefore cannot be on the same tier as their beloved old-fart-mobiles.

I honestly think that’s a good idea. If you’re about to be get beaten in terms of tangible categories (performance, styling, etc), then you might as well go with those empty, fluff-ridden qualities such as “history”. We all know that Lexus (being established in what the 80’s?) will always have less history so you surely would have a guaranteed (albeit worthless) advantage you can brag about.

So my advice is to hold on to that “history” because in the end, it’s really all you’ll have.

I've made that argument before and I'll tell you how it ends up. The German fan-boys will always bash Lexus. It's the better car and they don't like it.

of course it's the better car! it's the best car ever.

M5: unreliable crap
S6: unreliable crap
E63 AMG: unreliable crap

where can i get this GS-F?

"Mercs aren't over-engineered like that anymore."

Go drive an S-Class, or new CL. These new-age Benzes go back to the past, feeling just as much like tanks as ever. Somehow, they also manage to have spookily good handling.

I wouldn't say Lexuses are built the same way. My wife's RX doesn't seem so solid-- I could punch a dent in the door.

The GS is my favorite new Lexus in terms of looks. In fact, I'll probably end up with a GS460 if that ever hits the market.

Anyway, The GS platform may not be as sporty as the 5-Series currently, but that does not mean that a GS-F will automatically be worse than the M5. As with all of these performance cars, the suspensions also get heavy upgrades. Com on, you "enthusiasts" should know that...

the GS460 is coming out in the fall according to popular rumours online. same engine as LS460.

Duh.

Will, why not the LS? GS has a tiny interior, apparently.

The GS460 will definitely hit the market Will, and it is right around the corner. I am going to LA April 26/27/28 to see it and the 600HL. I'll give you an update.

this is all just speculation based on speculation.

the source of this info is just a random blog...not lexus, not an automotive publication, not a known journalist.

Lexus, since it a V10, why not put 500+ hp under the hood. If I had it my way the Lexus LS600HL will have 600hp, GS-F with 550+, and the Lexus LF-F will have 600hp as well. It really nice to see Lexus is actually working hard in the performance category.

Lexus Rule..............

lexus rules!
they should put 600hp in the IS with a 12-speed.
and then do a body kit on the LS-F that will put those AMG wimps to shame.
and then put 1200hp in the SC so it can blow that stupid bugatti veyron off the road.

"LF-F?" What are you talking about?

Some of you are simply ridiculous.

None of us get our way! If I had my way, I could get an S550 AMG fully-loaded for $40,000!

This isn't even Lexus's idea! I hope you know that you can't actually "talk" to the company through blogs, and that this is just a rumor flying around online!

And how do you know whether or not the GS's chassis can support over 500hp? It's not built to thrive on the autobahn like German sedans. There would be a ton of cowl shake.

Some of those on this page, riding their high horses, saying it's only the equally ridiculous German fans who are making extravagant claims. That couldn't be more wrong. There are so many speculative, propagandizing posters on each side. It makes me sick.

The Lexus GS is definitely better looking than that "ULGLY" BMW 5 Series for sure.

Ugly car from BMW are the 1 Series, Z4 and the 5 Series.

i heard the new GS-F will have 637 hp.

Okay. Have fun. That has nothing to do with anything.

I completely agreed with you, until I saw an article pitting the GS450h against the 550i. I thought the GS was svelte... but then I saw the two next to each other. Next to the 5, it looks like a bloated, ungainly ripoff with quad headlighs. Not only that- it needs 19" wheels to look good.

I hated the 5 Series, but I've gotten to love it. It's NOT a big departure from the last version; the only part of it that's unconventional is the way the headlamps are shaped. And even those are similar to BMWs of the past.

yeah! that bangle guy should take a page out of the lexus book and do some original design for once! he's such a copycat.

S4: i think you know me by now. read between the lines.

Hi, I have read a couple of post from you in the past and I really like your opinion about a lot of subjects.

I'm from a non-english speaking country in europe so I appologize for all the mistakes I'm typing. (I'm really doing my best :-)

But I have a rather strange question for you, it has nothing to do with this topic but I noticed you drive a audi s4 and your wife a lexus RX.

Aren't you always discussing then with your wife? :-)
The reason I ask is because I know two brothers. The eldest has a bmw 325ci and the youngest a lexus is250 and they are fighting ALL THE TIME. Even so much that it gets on everybody's nerves :-).

How does this work in Marriage???? :-)

greets

I guessed.

Hahah, my wife isn't a car freak like me. She just drives whatever she's comfortable with, and I buy her what she wants.

She wants an S550... if I can get a good lease deal, it's hers.

enthusiastx11, do me and everyone here a favor, put your head out of the German auto company ass, thank you. You have your opinion and I have my so don't try make fun of me dweeb.

but i like it there!

correction, it Lexus LF-A etc...

where can i buy this LF-A? i want one.

Of course it's all speculation. That is why it's funny that all you guys get your panties in a knot defending your favourite Euro brands honour, even though
they fleece you. It is common knowledge you will pay for anything with their badge on it, regardless of it's quality and reliability.

you are so right david! stupid badge whores!

but the worst are those brand whores who don't understand that reliability is the primary reason to buy a car.

If it's all about quality then buy German.

THE END

I really like how Lexus market their brand, this is truly genius Lexus. The dawn car is "NOT" even out yet, but look at the commontion it is causing. LOL :) ..........be afraid, be very afraid you German fanboys. Lexus is going to kick some serious butt... ha..ha...ha...he...he...he.

translation?

The autopsies.com flow:

-Positive (or hell, negative) Lexus story is posted

-Crazy Lexus fan/crazy German fan in disguise posts that whatever Lexus is better than a Ferrari

-Loyal German fans point out the obvious stupidity of crazy Lexus guy's post

-EL34 makes some crazy reference to real estate

-30-50 postings of somewhat rational debate with a liitle insanity sprinkled in

-Random new guy states the obvious regarding how crazy people here are

-5 posts debating Lexus reliability

-5 more posts acknowldging Lexus reliability, but how it doesn't really matter

-More EL34 postings about garbage trucks or AMG

-Boosting up or down for the hell of it

I think we're in a rut here.

now that was f***ing funny!

probably one of the most accurate and superly amusing posts ever.

superbly

Answer, that is a good post!

LOL:) hey!...but at least it funny when you read EL34 post, he pretty cool, he from the OC man.

everyone knows it will have 637hp. didn't you read my post above?

And how do you know this? Secret Lexus spy agent? The GS-F hasn't even been confirmed by Lexus as an idea they're even THINKING about making yet.

that's the best engine sound ever!

makes the lambo gallardo, ferrari F40 and porsche 911 turbo sound like girly-cars!

Sound really good to me, it just awesome, now that what I call music.

Lexus is known that it always tells you the fake number of horse power. A V10 Lexus engine will be way over 500hps for sure. The V8 5.0 that's coming in the IS-F will make close if not more than 450hps.

Like I've always said before and always will. Lexus kicks the Germen's engine in power, any time any place. The only thing Lexus needs is a stifer suspension that gives the sedan a more sporty drive feeling. They do that and the M5/AMG will be history for sure.

you are so right!
AMG and Motorsports should just shut down and give up! battle over.
F cars rule.

out of all these post not 1 person got FACTS....the only FACT is the GS-F will have a V10, how can u argue about hp when nobody knows, lmao, yall worst then Car and Driver
not 1 person can say welcome the F to the group of S,Ms and AMGs, ill be the frist, welcome, here my little opinion off of what lexus is doing,
LEXUS:im not worry about the S6 cause its not a threat,
LEXUS:M5 is the car to beat or go againt just cause the name mean business, ring bells to silly sites/magazines and dumb people
LEXUS:E55 is the better car out the 3 but noone cares, the CLS took its shine lol

just remember, if lexus fails so what, they got the money to do better, am i wrong?

it will have 637hp and beat every other car ever made.
reliability rules!

AMG is M-B's in house tuning arm. (MEANING Daimler Chrysler owns them both) Damn this unintelligence is just booming on this thread. Here is a host of other ones for you to chew on.

BMW- Motorsport GmbH used to be separate, then BMW aquired them and shortened it to M GmbH

Subaru- Subaru Technica International (I believe so...)

Mitsubishi- Ralliart

Nissan- NISMO

Ford- SVT

PleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePlease stop the ignorance!!!! Bad form to prove your point.

NONE OF THIS IS FACTS AT ALL. THE VERY EXISTENCE OF A GS-F ISN'T EVEN A FACT. IT'S A RUMOR.

total after-market garbage.

low-revving weak engines, horrible handling, floaty ride and god...totally unoriginal design. just can't hold a candle to lexus.

Here a million dollar question for all you German fanboys, When the BMW 335i was push to the limit with the Infiniti G37 coupe and than the BMW 335i overheated on the four lap. Is this what you German call soul or magical feel of German brand? if it is, no thank...you can keep your garbage out off my garage.

Magical feel! my A$$........You German fanboys need to stop living in the past.

There are some Lexus freaks on this website who make 'normal' Lexus enthousiasts very ashamed!!!

I am a japcarlover all the way but as a car lover I can't find it in my heart to disrespect other manufacturers.

I think the idea of a "m5" competitor is a real good prospection of lexus, but I like my japanese cars REALLY fast and preferable without leather and airco and other weight-demanding options.

So please Lexus-fans, give your opinion about an article but don't front at other enthousiasts!!

One good thing and one bad thing I can say about this Lexus is it will outrun a garbage truck, but I'm afraid it doesn't have a big enough trunk for my Open House signs for Saturday & Sunday.

I thought you lived in your mom's basement.

Why is it that Lexus is the only brand to cause controversy about rebadging or platform sharing,when almost every auto maker does it,for example Infiniti/Nissan,VW/Audi,Honda/Acura,Suburu/Saab,Cadillac/Chevy,Opel/Saturn,Holden/Pontiac,Lotus/Opel,and Mercedes/Chrysler300c,the only difference is that most Lexus are no longer rebadge or platform share,yet they keep bring up the old Lexus line up!!!

you're right.

most of the german cars have derivative design, are very uncomfortable, have horrible rides and are generally crappy cars. and they're performance is totally overrated.

it's still so hard to believe that 2.3 million idiots buy a benz or bmw every year while only 400,000 buy a lexus. are there that many people that haven't seen the light?

I've got one word for ya, AMG!!!

Here's two words you're quite familiar with:

AMC Gremlin

Uhuh definitely

you're clearly a well-schooled, automotive enthusiast.

SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP

Are any of the other NORMAL actual humans on this site feeling what I feel? Make it stop!!!

Pretty sure all the normal humans left this site a long, long time ago.

LOL:) this LexusLexusLexus is even crazier than I am and I thought I was a hardcore Lexus fan. I wonder whatever happend to Lexusguy?

S4, where is your "Homie" Lexusguy? LOL:)

How can you say Lexus F-cars rule??
Bet you've never driven one :-p

"Why is it that Lexus is the only brand to cause controversy about rebadging or platform sharing, when almost every auto maker does it?"

Well, I think the simple answer is that they are not the only brand to induce controversy over this. In addition, most of the cars you mention are not…mheh, “Tier 1” luxury cars. I don’t desire to get into that discussion. The point is that those spending more money do not want a cheaper car with modified accouterments.

Somewhat of an example: Jaguar managed to cause a fair amount of controversy because the platform sharing one both the X-type and S-Type. Now, you don’t hear about the S-type anymore because as I recall the car with which it shared its platform is no longer manufactured. One would anticipate less controversy over this that with Lexus because these two cars are rarely confused with the cars they share platforms with. Lexus because it is an in house luxury brand and not a completely separate brand with completely separate styling has had difficulty distinguishing itself from Toyota. That is actually the crux of the problem: The reason people mention platform sharing at all is that historically even, Lexus has looked too much like the Toyota counterparts with which they share platforms.

A really good example: Maybach. The first complaint: “It’s an engrandized Mercedes.”

Interestingly platform sharing doesn’t seem to help the cheaper brand either: I would hope VW has learned this with the Phaeton. Although I would say that there was more going on there than just that.

So for the more expensive brand it cheapens the image, and for the cheaper brand, I’m not so sure anyone cares.

If all this were true, Lexus would have had a problems selling their vehicles, but as we are all aware, it is the #1 selling luxury brand in North Amerca.

I didn't write this in because I felt it would be too long and I suppose I was under the false impression that people actually think. The number of cars Lexus sells in ancillary: the number of cars the would sell if they did not share platforms, or have such a relationship to toyota, relative to that number is not.

If you do not belive that Lexus losses sales for that reason I would say you are a fool. I know they have before, my aunt's exact words were "They are too expensive for a Toyota." Not that she is all that privy to car information.

Look on these boards. How often is Lexus directly called a Toyota? There are a fair number of people on here that truly believe that Lexus is an inferior luxury brand. It does damage their brand image. Do you believe that the people on here would have such an animosity for the brand if weren't a "Toyota" to them [or Japanese for others]?

What makes you think Lexus loses sales because Toyota is the parent company?
You think because some of the children that frequent these boards are indicitive
of the vast majority of the general public that actually purchase luxury vehicles, you would be wrong.

I am not saying that those on here represent the majority: the argument is not contingent upon such. It only takes something along the lines of an order of a percent. People become increasingly conscientious of such things as price of the cars increases I would imagine. You know people who are Lexus fans on here get around that by holding that Lexus and Toyota are not the same. That actually suports the point by demonstrating the particular insecurity indicative of aversion in the matter. Of each thing ask what is it in and of itself: what is its nature [...Clarice]

My aunt and uncle WANTED a Lexus, they went in biased toward it: and walked away without one: for the exact reason that they felt it too much like Toyota to them. I can guarantee they are not the only ones.

yes the camrys (RX and ES) make it the best selling luxury brand in the US.

but many americans like cars that nobody else in the world wants (think every lincoln and cadillac ever made). that's why both big german brands outsell lexus 3 to 1 around the world.

lexus has found a great niche in the states. but that's pretty much where it ends as sales in japan and europe have been dismal.

Well, if we want to use our relatives as the measure of the general public which purchases luxury vehicles, I must conclude that because my cousin was interested in a Mercedes, but was swayed away from it due to reliability concerns and lower resale values, I do not think Lexus has anything to worry about.

he is YOUR cousin after all.
one things matters to you and your kin: reliability.

^^ That's true, I'm from europe and a Lexus is still pretty rare over here. I see more porsches in a day than I see Lexus' in a month!

People here are really patriotic with european cars, also because japanese/american cars have less value here when you want to sell them.

So there are a lot of BMW's, Audi's and Mercedes' here but of course there are always "ricers" like you guys refer to them, and "american carfreaks" who make the boring street image look a little more variated.

"That's true, I'm from europe and a Lexus is still pretty rare over here. I see more porsches in a day than I see Lexus' in a month!"

Lexus wants to maintain brand image and exclusivity, and in fact raise it by not introducing lower cost models that would change this. To see taxis, police cars, and now ambulances with BMW, Mercedes and Porsche badges on the streets of Europe does nothing but only enhance this.

that's not the strategy they've taken in the US. lexus exists because of it's entry-level, camry based models. and that strategy seem to have worked: 300,000 + cars a year.

lexus barely sells in europe. so i don't think this exclusivity strategy is working all that well.

I would like to see them more because I think they are beautiful cars. I'm always surprised to see how many BMW and Audi fanatics there are in the US and on this website.
I remember when the 2007 BMW X5 was leaking info, that was all these guys were talking about :)
Over here it's sooo common. But when a Ford mustang passes you bet that everybody's looking :)

mmm pretty good can never look at a lexus properly withour jst thinking toyoita which ruins it

mmm pretty good can never look at a lexus properly withour jst thinking toyoita which ruins it

Buddy, the new LS 460L and LS600L chumps anything Mercedes, BMW, or Audi has ever build in terms of luxury , comfort, ride quality, and value. Are u nutz!!! Do a little research, go test drive the car, and then post a comment. If not STFU!