18 YEARS TO PRESTIGE!

This just confirms what evrybody already knows, those that actually buy luxury vehicles view Lexus as a tier 1 brand.

The remarkable thing is that it only took Lexus 18 years to gain prestige. Whereas, it took the Germans about 100 years.

Mercedes-Benz has always been an icon for luxury, in the 1920s, 1930s, 1960s... and today.
Lexus is a prestigious brand in North America, but not in Europe or Asia.

lexus builds some very high quality, luxurious cars.
but economics don't lie.
there's a reason the S-class bases 42% higher than the LS: it's far more prestigious.

one survey can't negate economics.

lexus builds some very high quality, luxurious cars.
but economics don't lie.
there's a reason the S-class bases 42% higher than the LS: it's far more prestigious.

one survey can't negate economics.

LexusAdmirer, you keep forgetting Lexus is a glorified Toyota.

Even the LS460/600 has the clock form the Corolla.

lexusadmirer- your the biggest idot on this site. So what your saying is that the germans just became popular in the last year or so? Yea thats sounds about right, what a jackass! 100 years my ass, where were for the past 70 years.

EL34 slap your self monkey boy for saying such a dumb comment!!
You say the LS and the Corolla have the same clock,the only thing in commen is that they are both digital!!
Did you ride the short bus when you were younger??

So according to your math then MB just started to gain prestige in 1971, you said it took 100 years for it to happen. Im pretty sure they were considered a prestigious company way before that.

Mercedes was not founded in 1871

It is interesting they didn't include the "Ultra-Luxury" brands (Aston Martin, Bentley, etc.) Still -this is why Porsche is my favorite company. People say they are bland because they don't change - but is why I respect them even more. They only built the Cayenne because the market would buy it and it would enable them to stay independent (that is also why they are investing in VW). How could I not love the rest of their vehicles. I only wish they would produce a true successor to the 959!!!

Do you work for Porsche? I don't recall them ever saying the Carrera GT was a successor to the 959...? That said the Carrera GT is still wonderful - just comment sensibly next time.

LexusAdmirer: your post comparing "Lexus 18 years to prestige vs. 100 for the Germans" is overly simplistic and uneducated. The world was a much different place (affluence) 100 years ago than it is today and the words Lexus and prestige can for the most part only be measured in the USA - even in Japan, the 'Lexus' name has been used for approx. two years; and market share/sales in Europe are minimal.

I was gonna say that ... Lexus only exist in the stupid US market. Nowhere else is Lexus viewed as a luxury car, actually no where else people really buy lexus cars.

Sorry guys, but as they say in the article, this test was done only in US. As for me, I understand that this is how US market is, I totally disagree with it's opinion, not only based on Lexus as a winner (second/third place) but on sooo many different factors. One poped out just a few days ago when Mercedes won the best GREEN car with their first car designed to do that, when so many others where trying to produce it from more than 10 years ago with different stupid weak hybrids. Another one is how the US government can't do any smart regulations on fuel/emanations - in (probably) the country with the most cars/SUVs in the World. Or maybe because I keep seeing to stupid old people driving 20mph with huge 4-5L V8 engines behind the hood. Nowhere else in the world is so much stupidity when talking about cars. And so on ..

lexusadmirer:

it's not an excuse to point out the fact that lexus is not a global luxury brand.
it has done VERY well in the states.
but that's where it ends.
18 years in europe without much success. sales in japan 50% below the targets they stated...

DAV265 is right.
It's a prestigious brand in the US.
In europe it's almost never even brought up when people are discussing about Luxury Sedans.

I think that the people who buy lexus in europe were ricers 20 years ago :)

Lexus will eventually be the icon Mercedes used to be in the 20's, 30's 60's, etc.

Used to be? Mercedes will be an icon forever, it will always be remember as the first company to INVENT THE CAR...Mercedes can serve a plat of sh*t to the world and it will still be remembered as the undisputed king of automobiles...

it's true...advertising is far more powerful here than in most of the rest of the world.

Let's take a look at the definition(s) of "prestige:"

1. The level of respect at which one is regarded by others; standing.
2. A person's high standing among others; honor or esteem.
3. Widely recognized prominence, distinction, or importance: a position of prestige in diplomatic circles.


Lexus fits all three. What's unique and remarkable about Lexus is that they've shown that it's not just about how long your company has been in existence, but it can also be how great your product is. Brands like Mercedes came to fame from super-innovative technology and cars with literally impermeable quality. In 18 years, Lexus has been able to get the latter down...

nice try. but it's not that simple.

the value of a brand is equal to the premium it can charge over competitive products. that's prestige in economic terms, not just the opinion or random people who may not even be able to afford the car.

so what's the premium the LS commands over the S-class? premium for the IS over the 3-series? premium for the SC over the SL? let me know.

nice try. but it's not that simple.

the value of a brand is equal to the premium it can charge over competitive products. that's prestige in economic terms, not just the opinion or random people who may not even be able to afford the car.

so what's the premium the LS commands over the S-class? premium for the IS over the 3-series? premium for the SC over the SL? let me know.

You call it a "premium" for "prestige." Many others would call it ridiculous and badge prostitution.

anthony:
so why buy a lexus over its toyota sibling? is that even worse badge prostitution? you can get the same quality, reliability and mechanics for less yet you pay more.

Month after monh, year after year, Lexus increases its presence and respect throughout the world. Lexus astonished even themselves with the amazing reaction Japan had to the new LS. and in Europe, Lexus hybrids have been embraced as an ultimate expression of luxury.

As for marketing, it's always considered a slam on Lexus....they only sell because of marketing. that is b.s. No one beats BMW when it comes to marketing, the way it turned a poser yuppie mobile (3) into the ultimate driving machine. Do you remeber what the 3 was like for its fisrt 10-15 years? Slow, cramped, cheap interior, over-priced. (Some of those attributes might still be accurate, but I digresss....) Because of marketing, the 3, now, is coveted by performance guys (even tho it has often been slower than the competition), secretary types (even tho they they have to all be leased due to being outrageously expensive), gays (even tho BMW has no marketing or interest in the gay community), and virtually everyone else who wants to take that first step into luxury ownership (even tho there are many decent options). Quite simply, if you buy the 3 you get the instant acceptance of you peers that 25 years of relentless marketing affords. No one, not even the superb folks at Lexus can touch this. That's marketing. So I'm tired of hearing that Lexus's success is only due to marketing.

um...no.

lexus outspends bmw and mercedes on marketing in the US by nearly 4 to 1.

no one said anything about money, it's about effectiveness. but nice try.

Autospies doesnt do the best job of reporting Euro sales, but every time they do, Lexus shows an increase, and a large percentage of those are hybrids. Just because you dont like them does not mean that others dont as well. Europeans are embracing hybrids, slowly, but it is happening. And they are also enbracing Lexus, much to your chagrin.

it's not marketing but product that's made BMW successful. oh and i'm happy to know per your explanation that BMW is for secretaries and gays. do you have a problem with either of those two groups of people? and what the hell does all that blather have to do with this discussion?

Where have all of you been? Lexus is no longer the "cut price Merc" as Rupert was trying to enforce to me earlier. Lexus's best-selling models are entry-level luxury sedans and SUVs...that goes for all luxury brands! 3-Series, C-Class, etc are all among the best-selling vehicles for their respective brands. Now we will hear the redundant and totally lame excuse that the ES and RX are no more than rebadged Camrys. You know that it is not just that simple, there is a higher level of engineering, luxury, technology, design even safety among the ES than there is the Camry. They simply share a suspension, does that mean the car is not worthy of respect?

"the value of a brand is equal to the premium it can charge over competitive products. that's prestige in economic terms, not just the opinion or random people who may not even be able to afford the car."

Let's stop with this. Mercedes is able to gouge their customers out of thousands of extra dollars because their customers do not mind it. Their customers feel that they get more "prestige" for their dollar; quite simply, the badge allows the thousand-dollar mark-ups. I guess what's truly upsetting to the majority of you is that Lexus is so highly-regarded here without even having to incorporate "prestige pricing." Have you ever thought of the backlash Mercedes would have if they lowered the fixed prices of their vehicles in North America? Remember, there's a reason North America will never get the A- and B-Classes, Mercedes is worried about its North American image just as much, if not more than Lexus.

I have no problem with this, but don't go around waving your finger because the competition is able to offer a damn near similar product for less money. Is this really true? If a Ford Focus costs $1,500 more than an comparably-equipped Mercedes A-Class in Europe does that mean that the Focus has more "prestige?"

you can rant all you want. doesn't change the economics of branding.

prestige is about the willingness of consumers to pay a premium over a competitive product.

lexus is luxury and good value. they wouldn't survive at the prices of their german competitors.

and for the record, toyota is not a charity.
they're a powerful business with profit as their top motivation.
they wouldn't leave money on the table if they could "gouge" it out of their customers. they're customers just won't pay up for value luxury.

Unfortunately, in Canada we are able to purchase the B class and be subjected to its low quality. BMW will be doing the same with the 1 series. As time goes on, the prestige factor of these marques will be reduced while Lexus's moves ahead.

and why will lexus move ahead? do you have some insight into their product strategy?

completely agree.

lexus are very good cars for the money. but not a premier brand.

economics are the end all be all. go ahead and get outraged guys. fight ecomomic principles.

According to this survey, the people that actually purchase luxury automobiles already consider Lexus and Mercedes on par. As far as discounts are concerned, Mercedes is heavily discounting many of their models, B class, C class, R class.
I guess the prestige factor and great styling is not enough.

everyone discounts in the car business.

especially at the end of a mode's life....like the current C class that's being replaced in a few months, like the ES330 before the ES350 came out last year, etc.

regarding the R-class. well, it's just ugly and expensive so they have to discount.

by the way, lexus is currently discounting the IS and the GS450h because those cars aren't moving.

That's not true. The GS450h is on a waiting list, and the IS model is no way near leasing rates that the C class or BMW 3 series are. Have some self respect, please.

The GS450h has been selling below expectations.

the GS450h is selling far below expectation. according to a current article on hybrids here on autospies they sold 181 of them last month. way off goals. and there definitely isn't a waiting list...they have several months of supply on the lots. call any lexus dealer and ask for one.

there is, however, a list of buyers for the LS600h that comes out in june.

regarding leasing rates david....

they are running deals on the IS. despite that, full list bmw leases are often a better deal. that because leases are based on something called residual value (i.e. how much the car is worth at the end of the lease). since bmws retain their value better than lexus, the portion of the car that a lessee has "used" is smaller. so surprise: better lease prices! hope this was helpful for you.

But I thought Lexus wasn't as prestigious as BMW, therefore their cars are cheaper!

Lexus also has above average resale value. The difference is, luxury consumers aren't scared to finance a Lexus like they are a BMW due to quality issues.

lexus are cheaper to buy genius.
but leasing isn't buying duh.
and bmws are still more expensive to buy when they're 3 years old.

the GS450h is selling far below expectation. according to a current article on hybrids here on autospies they sold 181 of them last month. way off goals. and there definitely isn't a waiting list...they have several months of supply on the lots. call any lexus dealer and ask for one.

there is, however, a list of buyers for the LS600h that comes out in june.

enough with the lies david. please back up your claims with data.

Yesterday I saw a brand new Bentley Continental Flying Spur and believe me the LS460 can't touch the quality it has.

el34
Irvine, Ca

Considering it's three times the price...

It sure is some talent you have to be able to examine the quality of a car from across the street.

What is the point of this article?

Especially when so many of the Lexus fans discount prestige as "superficial?" Suddenly, now othat they're "tied" with Mercedes, it's amazing?

BTW, I agree with them. "Prestige" is nothing. I don't buy a vehicle based upon what others think of it.

sure you don't.

I live in America. According to the BMW fans on this website, Audi is not as "prestigious" as BMW, Merc or Lexus in America. Do I care? Why would I? I love my car, and bought it for that reason. If Lexus made a car I loved, I'd buy it.

I'm currently in a convertible phase, and Lexus just doesn't make a convertible I like... SC430 is a joke. I'm sure it will be much-improved for the (overdue) next generation, though.

I think that’s the hidden meaning behind this article.

I wouldn’t go as far as say Lexus has reached Benz or BMW prestige.

And people are kidding themselves if they spend 70-100K on a car, and claim prestige is not a factor.

It's amazing with the kind of bashing I read when it comes to any luxury euro brand vs. Lexus or any other Japanese brand for that matter. We read it all with the level of prestige one supposedly lacks vs one with that much more definition. But one thing I respect is all your responses, b/c you guys show support with the brand you believe in. This is what keeps this industry running strong. Otherwise it will be a very boring auto world. But no matter what you look at Lexus to be(good or bad, or call it a glorified Toyota). You gotta give them credit that they are only Japanese company to challenge the Luxury segment with continuous improvement and success.(soon to follow Infinity and possibly Hyundai?!?! in the near future) It will take some time to get to that "level of prestige acceptance". True they may be the level of "affordable luxury" but why start higher than that? Even when you still have to earn the stars and stripes of luxury pricing? So they will get there...it's just time working their way up. Remember they are going up against companies that have been in the luxury game for decades or a 100 years(and that's amongst all euro brands with heritage, so yes you have to respect that). But it does not mean that the Japanese can't do the same. Just like all of us, we want to be successful with wealth and happiness. And we have to earn the stars and stripes to get there. The simple truth of the matter...Japanese luxury(Lexus/Infinity) is growing more and more, there is no sign of them going down, no matter which way it's compared and all of you I'm sure is well aware of that. You can either accept or deny, at the end of the day it's very simple facts...

In response to mromar1, that's like saying Mercedes did a good job rebadging the Chrysler Crossfire into a MB SLK, or a Chrysler Pacifica into a MB R500. That only took me 3 seconds to figure that out...

incorrect. they didn't rebadge a crossfire into an SLK. when the new SLK came out, they used the OLD SLK platform for the crossfire. get your facts right.

Prestige is stupid. Lexus builds good quality cars that suit North American tastes.

nobody is arguing that lexus doesn't build top quality cars.
they're just boring.

That's not the argument at all "enthusiast." That's your ignorance shining through.

so i'm ignorant because i value different things than you. and have different opinions.

that's your closed-mindedness showing through. were you brought up in a fascist country?

Prestige is MB, BMW, Rolls Royce, Porsche, Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini, Maserati, Aston Martin, Jaguar.

I've never heard of these people before. So, quoted directly from their site:

"The Luxury Brand Status Index is another proprietary survey methodology and index developed by The Luxury Institute that guides our company-based subscribers."

Proprietary means we cant see how the survey was done. "Guides our company-based subscribers" leads me to believe this survey tends to invent better findings for those company based subscribers who "subscribe more" if you know what I mean.

Maybe this is a credible survey but I tend to be suspicious of what looks, walks and quacks like a marketing firm.

This is the most astute observation on this thread!

..more info is needed as to who this group is, and who is subscribing...

Rating brands on badge status and not car quality is like awarding the super bowl to a team without playing the game.

status isn't built on air. it's built on reputation, design, innovation and--to a lesser degree--general reliability (less so today because all cars are pretty damn reliable).

in fact, status/prestige/reputation is what makes brands powerful. and enables them to command premium pricing. for example, armani can charge far more for a suit than banana republic even though banana republic is good quality. likewise, rolex can charge far more for a watch than seiko despite seiko's great quality. same thing goes for mercedes vs. lexus.

Want to know what is more prestigous than a Lexus in Japan.
The Toyota Century. Even with cloth seats, it smokes the LS460. Dignitaries, CEOs of large Japanese industries only want to be seen in a century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Century

Too bad the rabid fan boys can't have it here. They don't want any Gaijin to spoil there goods.
Products like the Century and other high end stuff (Seiko Credor) won't be sold to lower class americans.

That car looks like a Volvo gone wrong. They wouldnt sell in the US because people would mistake it for a used car.

I brought it up because the japanese do value provenance, pedigree, heritage.

The century may be butt ugly but it is a status symbol vehicle mainly due to the V12 and the hand made craftsmanship.


The retail is $92K

I think Lexus sales in the US speak for itself. It took Lexus 18 years to acheive what it took Germany decades.

You nerd sales in the US doesn't mean world wide. Just because a bunch of marketing marvels advertised glorified Toyota's in the 90's and people bought the notion of it being true contenders with the German's it became a huge hit. World wide it's still nothing. Understated luxury for German's would be the Audi brand, not Lexus.

It only took Lexus 18 years because it was easy for them to leech ideas off other companies. As you can see 18 years later who's still on top. Don't forget the LS wanted to be the innovator S-Class.

please compare apples to apples. what EXACTLY has lexus achieved that took mercedes decades? be specific.

lexus certainly hasn't achieved what mercedes has in terms of prestige and pricing power. also, benz reaches far higher than lexus. there are more than a dozen models that START over $100,000. lexus doesn't have one.

you can make model to model comparisons. but brand to brand doesn't fly.

That's right, when Lexus accomplishes something like sales, try to discredit it by saying "Well that's in the U.S".

If the German luxury brands have so much experience, prestige, etc. then all the advertising in the world still shouldn't be able to have Lexus beat them in America or Mars for that matter.

First, I am not a fanboy of Lexus or any German brand.
Agent, I will reinstate that Lexus is designed for the American consumer. Yes, they may have a few dealers in Europe and Japan, but primarily they are made and designed for the US market. Say what you want about the American consumer and their distaste and lack of style, the bottom line is that American consumers have the most spending power in the world. Lexus appeals to many consumers because baby boomers wanted a car that would have the same qualities of a Toyota with a luxury a name on the hood. That is why Lexus is so successful and will continue to be. Call it a marketing marvel or whatever you want, the bottom line of any business is how much profit you can pull in, and Lexus has undoubtedly proved this.

Enthusiast – Lexus has proved everything they needed in their sales and that is the bottom line. They have conquered the most lucrative luxury automotive market in the world. I am not comparing brands from a subjective point, I am comparing them from an objective point and I never said that a Lexus was better then a Mercedes.

and all the lexus fans interpret success in the US to mean that lexus rules the world.

a little ethnocentric there. the most powerful brands are global.

prestige isn't what you make it.

i'll say it again...it's the ability to charge a premium over competitors.
opinions are nice, but economics are irrefutable.

The value of prestige:

Being able to smile arrogantly and tell people you have a Mercedes when your car is really an old-ass diesel E from 1982.

Bragging about your Z4's German heritage when it was made in the good ole' U.S.A. just like every Ford Taurus.

Impressing chicks at a bar by placing your Mercedes car key on the bar. They don't know it's that p.o.s. C230 hatchback they laughed at on the way in.

If who you are is based upon the false perception others have of you, then the whole concept of prestige is pretty important. It does make you quite pathetic however.

status isn't built on air. it's built on reputation, design, innovation and--to a lesser degree--general reliability (less so today because all cars are pretty damn reliable).

in fact, status/prestige/reputation is what makes brands powerful. and enables them to command premium pricing. for example, armani can charge far more for a suit than banana republic even though banana republic is good quality. likewise, rolex can charge far more for a watch than seiko despite seiko's great quality. same thing goes for mercedes vs. lexus.

right. because there's nothing that mercedes does better than lexus. some of us have different priorities. for me, design, innovation and performance outweight value and reliability.

Great observations answer!

reliability does affect reputation. but marginally better or worse reliability (i.e. minor problems) doesn't have a dramatic effect at the high end of the automotive market. how do you explain the success of all the italian brands? the british brands?

status isn't built on air. it's built on reputation, design, innovation and--to a lesser degree--general reliability (less so today because all cars are pretty damn reliable).

in fact, status/prestige/reputation is what makes brands powerful. and enables them to command premium pricing. for example, armani can charge far more for a suit than banana republic even though banana republic is good quality. likewise, rolex can charge far more for a watch than seiko despite seiko's great quality. same thing goes for mercedes vs. lexus.

Nobody is saying Mercedes hasn't produced good cars in the past, just that the prestige factor is not exclusive to them. According to this survey they rank in the top 3, however, 20 years ago they would have been #1. The people that buy luxury cars in North America see Lexus at or near the top, and sales enforce this view.

LOL.
love all the random factoids you used to challenge my OPINIONS. in my OPINION, mercedes are better looking, more innovative (i really don't need a self parking device that requires a 24 foot spot to work), and better performance (handling, acceleration).

thanks for trying. another 2.4 million people will buy a benz or BMW this year because they agree with me. 400,000 people agree with you.

agreed. reliable cars but design is totally derivative. it's easy to mistake an LS for an ES or an ES for a camry....

huu76! You are a lunatic!

I can't believe you would argue with what someone thinks about a car!

And L-Finesse? NOTHING ELSE ON THE ROAD?!

I'm not even going to begin!

there are no innaccuracies in my opinions. they're MY OPINIONS. you have your priorities and, as i have so clearly stated, i have mine.

Well you know what?? the 2007 merc S-class JUST looks like the poor and ugly 2006 asian version Nissan Sentra, Wahahahaha!!!!! go look for it and prove it to yourself...

Where as Mercedes brought about one of the first gasoline powered internal combustion automobiles and was and still is regarded as a luxury brand does not say anywhere that it took 100 years for it to earn its prestige, being the pioneer Karl Benz was for the automobile earned the company prestige from the get go.

Good for Lexus to tie Benz, but don't bring your B.S. about Merc taking 100 years for prestige, the car company will always have my respect...well except for the A,B, and the C hatch class..

Sing all the lullabies you want, "prestige pricing" doesn't make any brand "better." You don't consider it "marketing" when you charge more for your products so people believe it is better than the competition? In the luxury car segments, this type of reverse economical thinking is very powerful. This same type of thinking was realized by Lexus recently. When you want to be taken literally in the luxury car segment, you charge more. This is exactly what Hyundai is doing with their new luxury car.

but in many ways mercedes is actually better! you just can't see any good in cars that aren't japanese!

Mercedes is "better" how? Because their products are more expensive?

innovative design (you never mistake an S-class for a $35,000 C-class like you do an LS for an ES), great ride/handling balance, powerful engines, etc.

The C, CLK, E, and CL were all mistaken for one another in their respective previous- and current-generations. It's called a design theme, which Lexus is often accused of lacking. Anyone who cannot recognize the tremendous size difference between an ES and an LS is quite frankly stupid.

lol

anthony:

you're right. who couldn't see the MASSIVE differential between the 191 inch ES and the 198 inch long LS? especially since their front ends look nearly identical, the body shape is the same, they both have that lexus hallmark hofmeister kink in the rear side windows and nearly all of them are sold in silver.

All of you people are kidding yourselves if you don't believe that people cross-shop Audi, Mercedes, and Lexus. I did, and will continue to as long as the product is good. It's definitely nice to have a car from a brand with 80+ years of experience, but that is not the only thing I look for in a quality luxury car. Anyone who blindly buys a car due to its "prestige" without considering other important aspects I consider a fool.

you people are ridiculous. buying a MB because its more prestigious is the most stupid reason to buy a car. a brand's prestige is a highly subjective metric based on what rich people have a taste for. obviously not everyone is rich, but they aspire to join that elite club (why i dont know, but the europeans make a big deal about it). people want to give off an image of themselves and having a three pointed badge helps them front. ask any person of worth why they bought the AMG or S600. im willing to put money down that its not because of the badge. thats what cars like the C230 are for. its for the badge whores who cant afford the AMG but want to be linked to the guy who can.

people are shallow as most of you probably are. go ahead, buy that S class with a V6! buy an audi with that 4 cylinder, front wheel drive! yah prestige wooo! i roll like the guys with bentleys and V12 mercs.

i don't favor mercedes for prestige. i favor them for the all the things (mentioned above and below) that they do so well....

love them.

bunch of fascists in here.
i can't even say i like something without getting deboosted.

i don't favor mercedes for prestige. i favor them for the all the things (mentioned above and below) that they do so well....

love them.

many bmw/mercedes/audi fans in here have no problem admitting what lexus does well....reliability, quality, comfy interiors. we even congratulate the LS throughout the post regarding its win of world car of the year.

why can't lexus fans do the same? isn't it just POSSIBLE that another brand could do something better than lexus? such childish behavior....

Please do not ride your high horse. Do you really expect them to jump at your command at the slightest admittance of Lexus doing something right when 99% of the rest of the time, you are bashing the brand? Negative implications always outweigh the positive ones here on this site.

on a separate note, i just drove a friend's new CL550 today. stunning car. the interior (in cognac) made the LS interior look pedestrian. and the technology/features in the car....phenomenal. distronic, 4 different massages for the driver, amazing logic 7 sound system, active seats (including drive dynamic), beautiful ambient lighting, stunning stiched leather dash and door panels, night vision, and on and on and on....the car made you feel like you were on top of the world.

That car.. I am lost for words.. It is spectacular in person. It looks just as good as a Bentley. I know it's a bold statement but what Mercedes has done to this new CL is remarkable. It was black on black with nice beautiful polished wood.

The CL is a stunning car in person. That cliche statement that "pictures don't do it justice" totally applies to the car. However, to imply that someone cannot feel the same way about the impeccable workmanship of an LS is a crime. That car is also impressive in person.

I agree. It's a totally difference ambiance. Japanese Luxury and European Luxury is totally different. Each have their strong points respectively.

yes, just different interpretations of style.

huu.

you'd have to be blind to mistake the sub-compact C-class for the S. espeically the new S. someone needs glasses....

huu35 somehow links how much he likes a car to European home ownership.

He truly is a genius.

"benz reaches far higher than lexus. there are more than a dozen models that START over $100,000. lexus doesn't have one."

Actually, it's been discussed for months now that the Lexus LS hybrid was to break the $100K barrier. And...voila...

U.S. base pricing for the LS 600h L was just announced: $104,000.

RSES, Exec. pkg. extra...

The LF-A is supposedly to be priced around $125K.

So, like it or not, Lexus is moving upmarket. And the LS hybrids already are virtually sold out for 2006-2007, 1,850 preorders.

I sure hope the Lexus fans build up enough courage to buy a LF-A considering the current 2 door they have in the lineup is a total failure.

They are moving up market. But their moving up safely though. The most expensive Lexus is still cheaper than the S-Class starting I believe.

where did you find LS600 pricing? just a simple link will do.
are how do you know about these presold cars?
do you work for the company?

A8 better than the LS,7,S put togher.

That's not true. I really like the A8 but I won't go as far to say it's better than the LS 7 or S combined.

The A8 is very understated and has a solid feel to it. It's luxurious as well. Nothing in that interior feels cheap.

A8 better than the LS,7,S put togther.

Why? Because Lexus marketing is very aggressive, they have reinvented the idea of product placement, product association, and promotion..they just do it better than ANYONE. Lexus has essentially bypassed the heritage issue by buying their way to the table. Its very clever and the rest of the auto industry needs to learn from this incredible success.

That is true!.

Acura has no V8 and no RWD full size luxury sedan to even compete. They are capable but they'll need to filter out the CSX in Canada and maybe even the TSX sedan and come out with a TSX coupe and keep the TL going. As for the RL it needs to be the second from the top. A new model should come out to be the flagship.

To add to other points about marketing, engines, etc...

Acuras are boring. They have no direct sell-point, except the price. That doesn't excite me.

Want performance? Go buy a BMW, Audi or Infiniti instead.

Want luxury? There's Lexus, Audi and Mercedes-Benz waiting for you.

Reliability's your top priority? Hmm. Lexus is pretty good there, too.

"Prestige?" All of the above.

*There ARE Lexus, Mercedes-Benz and Audi waiting for you.

Lexus makes really good cars.In Europe Lexus is not considared prestigeous because it is not very long on the scene.Another problem for Lexus in Europe is that German cars(lexuss main competitors) are considared to be the best cars.But eventually lexus will gain prestige in Europe even though it will take at least few decades.

It will gain respect I don't doubt that and I think they have the right to as well. I don't know if they'll 'take over' all the sales but for sure they will be respected and I'd love to see it.

We argue about Lexus vs. the Big III and whatever you call it but any car for 100K you should be expecting top notch quality builds and quite frankly we do!. Whether its the A8, 7, LS, S class or the XJ just look at them. They are expensive and they are all nice!

Whats 'Lexus'?

SC vs. 6-series....it's more like a $20k differential given that everything is standard on the SC and the 6 has some hefty options. and the 6 is hardly a triumph for BMW. it's one of my least favorite cars they've made.

Hey, why shouldn't the German car companies cash in on European need to show off what little they have. Paying an extra $50K on a car is easier than a few hunder thousand on a shack of a home. We in N.America are much more sensible.

So You´ve never been to Europe. I see You know NOTHING
about Europe and the Europeans, really NOTHING!

WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK THIS?

Some people who buy SC430s CANNOT AFFORD 650i's!!!

There are points where "the wealthy" just don't want to spend that much!

The average 650i convertible is about $85K, give or take. The average SC is $65K. My S4 was $65K. Just because I could afford the S4, it does not mean I could spend the money on an $85K BMW. I would never imagine myself spending more than $75,000 on a car two years ago.

Nah, let me explain what lexus is....

Lexus is a german car wannabe, made by the japanese for the american market. Its just a rebadged toyota with some extra features and leather. You can also say its an M-B POS. If you cant afford a german car, and you only want a car that can move..... Lexus is your choice.

Silly fool. Lexus isn't a "german car wannabe." Lexuses are much more reliable than those POSs.

ugh...marginally better reliability rears it's ugly head again.

"Marginally better?"

lol

Consumer Reports says Audi is the closest German brand to Lexus.

yes, marginally better reliability.

many german cars make almighty consumer reports short list of recommended cars:

audi A3, A4, A6 and S4
BMW 3, 5, 6 and Z4

Hahaha, Will and M3KILLER, easy guys!

I still didnt lose my mind to make such a silly statement, but I just wanted to try the FANBOY talk.... I was only joking, and you 2 took it seriously. At last, Will shows his true face.... ;)

P.S reliability doesnt make a car better than the other....

Oh it's soooo easy to make a fanboy comment and then claim "I'm no fanboy!"

The difference here is that my response was 100% factual. ;)

Will, acting superior again.

What else is new?

Yes isnt it sooo easy! Difference is at least I was making sense :D ..... the truth hurts sometimes ;)

Where did you get this information?

LS sit and rust? huh? nobody in their right mind would suggest this.

the LS was always going to be a success. lexus customers are extremely loyal because lexus gives them what they want in spades...luxury, quality, reliability and good value relative to competitors.

As long as Lexus,Infiniti,and Acura continue to raid the parts bin (and design cues)from their parent companies to the degree they do, they will not have the prestige or cache of MB,BMW,Audi etc. That is not saying they don't make good products, its just stating they are all derivitives of lower cost products and that reduces their prestige in comparison.Sorry Fanboys, but you guys are very defensive....

Well, although Lexus will be a staple in the luxury car industry by then, you must undestand that the German companies do not sit still. They are perhaps the most ravenously competitive in the car industry (between the "big three" Germans), always one-upping each other and bringing more advanced engine and suspension technologies to the table. They will always be gaining prestige in the industry, if this remains true. Their foothold will only increase.

Enthusiust, Where did I ever say "Lexus rules the world"? If you knew anything about consumer behavior it is all about thier perception of a brand. BMW's and Mercedes are overpriced and don't have the same value as a Lexus would. Thats the appeal. For example, my dad immigrated from Italy to NY, he would only drive European cars. After going through a handful of them in the matter of years he bought a Celica. He drove the Celica for 400,000 miles before the car finally died of rust. It was that ownership experience that provoked him to stick with Japanese cars until this day. And guess what he owns? A Lexus LX470. Toyota is deeprouted in the babyboomer generation. These were the cars that have been getting them and thier families, from A to B with no problems, for a whole generation. Lexus was created so these people could have the same qualites of Toyota with a luxury name on the hood. Toyota saw the oppurtunity to create a luxury brand and it did. It took the Germans quite some time to achieve that perception in the US market. Ill agree that the Lexus doesn't nearly have the same history as the German brands but ultimatley, luxury is what people percieve it to be.

http://www.autospies.com/news/Lexus-Announces-Pricing-for-2008-Lexus-LS-600h-L-Luxury-Hybrid-Sedan-14024/

http://www.autospies.com/news/Which-Lexus-is-so-popular-that-there-is-a-one-year-backorder-13277/

Generally well said. Lexus is a great marque, but they're only perceived as on par in North America. Everywhere else, a Lexus does not stand for anything and hence cannot be considered prestigeous.

I know I will get deboosted for this but hey, it's the truth.

He lives in Belgium, I think.

well does mercedes started as a global brand? sure it didnt like others, second, mercedes is the first and original, well then BMW, Audi are wannabe's?? 4 sure owners of the 2 brands or the brand themselves wont agree in the first place, Lexus is recognized in Asia as a premium luxury brand FYI, and take note that the ultimate LS 460 has NO toyota equivalent no matter how you research, so how come its a rebadge toyota? And look at the Escalade, its a rebadge chevy SUV right but does it matter?? Its just so hard to accept that a japanese brand could kick the asses of these german sedans, and its a fast pace world now so i wont be surprised if Lexus dominates the world a decade or so from now,

"LexusAdmirer" I hate to break it to ya, but Lexus's prestige level is nowhere near that of BMW's or Mercedes.

Take a trip around the world and see how prestigious Lexus really is, in fact if you'd taken that trip 3 years ago, you'd have discovered that Lexus existed as Toyota in Asian parts of this world.

Aside from all that though, you don’t even consider how much times have changed! You think 100 years ago BMW had an Automobile giant like Toyota to give birth to it & wipe it’s ass? No because there wasn’t any major established automotive companies at that time. It wasn’t about who had the first automatic parking system, it was about who could actually build the first reliable but affordable automobile!

I could go on but hopefully you get the point that the two companies histories are incomparable, as is the soul of these car companies for which Lexus’s doesn’t even have one.

you never cease to amaze me with your closed mindedness huu.
different cars suit different needs, tastes and priorities.
what don't you understand about that?

if we all wanted the same things we'd live in a stepford world. is that what you'd like? you sound like mao or some russian marxist circa 1920.

Some of you guys are complete morons. You sit around talking about how stupid Americans are and then you comment on how Lexus offers a lot of car for an affordable price. I think what you just said is that Lexus offers a product comparable to Mercedes, Audi, and BMW for less money. In your mind that makes Americans stupid? I don't get it...we get the same car for less money and you are calling us stupid? Wow, some of you need to reevaluate because it seems to me that getting a great car, with great technology, and fantastic reliability at a great price is pretty darn intelligent.

blah blah blah. what does most of this blather have to do with the discussion?

This is a survey for God's sake. Not only that a survey for wealthy consumers who can spend their money on whatever they want. They are a totally different demographic than most of us here are. I partially agree with Fabian555's comments as Porsche is not a luxury brand but the word has multiple meanings. Where Porsche may not make a direct hit with providing an abundance or great ease and comfort with lavish options the brand delivers indulgence of pleasure and satisfaction in ownership, whether it be driven or sitting lazily in the garage. There is a difference between "My Porsche is a luxury car" to "I had the luxury of driving my 911 through a handful of B-roads this morning."

"LexusAdmirer" you didn't even hear half of what what I said. That's ok though...I mean I must just be another rabid fanboy right? Like you havn't heared that one once or twice.

haha Lexus just keeps its awards and merits coming and th list will just go on.. these just prove what Lexus haters deny all these time! Unbiased judgement from LBSI survey, well i guess the survey says it all no more B.S. blahblah...hahaha Lexus no.1!