Lexus LS600h. Friendly to the environment, not your checkbook

albeit a nice looking car and such, just too much money to be competitive. Lexus will have a hard time holding onto its orders in the 100k + range.

I very much doubt that any $100k+ MB/BMW/Audi vehicle achieved the same feat ever before. Prove me wrong.

Mercedes 300SEL 6.3

Mercedes 450SEL 6.9

Mercedes 560SEL


1-2 year waiting list. You're welcome. ;)

XeroK00L, your relentless defense of Lexus is alarming. Take a look at BMW4ever's post, and see how honest and truthful (as well as UN-BIASED) it is.

And, about the 560SEL... you realize that was 1991! It was unheard of for even the highest-caliber Mercedes sedan to be over $100,000! $75K was a ton of money! This makes you look very young. How old are you? 20?

Why do I waste my time talking to you, XeroCool? You've clearly proven to be a biased Toyota fanboy.

The three Mercedes' I mentioned were the top of the line models in their respective times. They were the most powerful S-Classes and the most expensive and there was a long waiting list as well. That's my point.

There were no V12 sedans from BMW or Mercedes until the early 1990s. So keeping that in mind, the 560SEL was the flagship W126 S-Class.

Oh and one more thing, XeroCool.

The people who placed an order for the LS600h did so before Lexus even announced the pricing. As can be expected, I can see a few people cancelling their orders if they feel the price is too high. ;-)

XeroK00L, how is it a "baseless" prediction that some will cancel orders? Before it came out, a friend of mine thought it would cost around $85K, because there wasn't a huge markup for the other two hybrids in Lexus's lineup. Undoubtedly, a few people who took orders for the people before its price was released don't want to pay $115,000 (with options). This has happened before. At least ONE person will cancel their order.

"Undoubtedly, a few people who took orders for the *VEHICLE* before its price was released..."

Buyers of the S600 is a very small market. But it's got prestige and status at a very high level of luxury. People who buy an S-Class does not think so much money for value as Lexus buyers do. Mercedes may not have a 'hybrid' but they got diesel engines which is majority of the cars on the road in Europe today. Hybrids are hugely successful here because I believe the US causes most of the world's emissions because of all the gas guzzlers. Europe already found their alternative with diesel long time ago for fuel economy and with the new technology these days with Diesel they are clean as ever.

The difference is, we can't be sure if those 2,000 LS600hL's are actually sold or not.

I don't think the pricetag is unjustified- Lexus has worked vigorously to earn its reputation here in the U.S. of A. It's just a bit shocking, seeing as the LS460L going over $90K with options was a shock to most. The first dip in the six-figure water will not be their last, however.

the differential in price between S550 and S600 is pretty well justified:

$20k+ in options on S550 are standard on S600
130hp advantage and massive torque of V12 is easily worth $10-15k
throw in a few bucks for added luxury finishes and exclusivity and there you have it.

oh, and nobody in their right mind is claiming the S600 is environmentally friendly. it isn't. and neither is this 600h. if that's your priority buy a prius.

Odd "news" posting. An opinion based on someone else's opinion?

There is a price increase with the hybrid. For that you do get some things that are known: increased power, LED headlights, exclusive wheels, and the relative fuel savings from the hybrid system. You also get, dare I say it, the "prestige" of owning the first $100K+ Lexus.

Also, I don't believe Lexus has made an official statement as to what the standard content will be versus the non-hybrid LS.

+
Driver monitor system,
Rear end pre-crash system,
Full-speed range dynamic cruise control,
Front and rear active stabilizers
...

Isn't the price "saved" on gas offset by the massive price increase of the vehicle itself? Lexus hybrids don't return on their higher prices (relative to their conventional counterparts) for many years.

Lexus must detune the 5.0L v8 quite a bit.
A bit disappointed with only 438 total hp. I expected more from ~400hp 5.0L v8+ 225hp electric motor. But the torque will be immense!

Torque curve of an electric moror:


Torque
------
\
\
\

0 rpm --->

all this talk of power...but the car only has 50hp more than the LS460. with all the added weight of the hybrid components plus all the luxury amenities i question whether it will acutally be faster. thoughts?

all this talk of power...but the car only has 50hp more than the LS460. with all the added weight of the hybrid components plus all the luxury amenities i question whether it will acutally be faster. thoughts?

Who would ever think that Toyota would ever sell a 100K car. But they're doing it; defn'ly not my favorite brand but they're sure doing something right.

There's no need to wonder the validity of this "article" at all. Just look at who it was submitted by: "Mr. Omar."

The designation of the LS600 "Hybrid" was not for "hype." It was designated because the LS600h gets the power of a V12 without the economy of one using a hybrid motor. What's so hard to understand here? Had Lexus just came out with an "LS600" with no hybrid, would there be any criticism? Who here honestly believes that people are going to buy this strictly because it's a hybrid? It's not "just a hybrid," for it offers much more performance and luxury among other attributes.

It was written by Motor Trend.

But don't worry, I hate mromar, too.

You guys do realize that the picture inserted here is of the LS460L and not an LS600h?

I know it's a minute issue, but I'm a sucker for details sometimes.

Look at the headlamps. There are LEDs. That's an LS600hL, alright.

The standard 460 wheels is what's throwing it off.

Try convincing the globe to pay that much for a Lexus. A brand that is still quite new to them in comparison with the German's.

More Lexus news, awesome.

Friendly to environment but not to your checkbook, go figure, that car is for the ultimate rich. It is for those whose has the money and want the most realible, quality and technology has to offer for the money.

Those that are considering buying this type of car, I doubt if they worry about money issue than the environment. Secondly, it is sold out already? and now you have to be on the waiting list to get one of this baby. I will laugh my A$$ off at all you German fanboys when and if.. the Saudi King order one of this baby.

The Ultimate rich? For refinement, passion, and prestige they will be looking at brands such as Bentley, Rolls Royce, & Maybach. If not that they will be looking at Mercedes Benz and then BMW or Audi. Lexus won't even come to thought in most parts of the world. Only in the US is this brand so successful.

the waiting list is temporary. Everyone knows that 50% of the orders on the list will cancel. Most were probably expecting the price to be under $100k. I just think it is a lot for a lexus. No offense, but if I am spending $100 large on a car it will not be for a Lexus. I want something that stands out. why not get the Maseratti, or the S55, or Individual 760LI, Alpina B7, or Jaguar Super, or CL550, or Audi S8 ... Lexus wants you to pay that much for a V8 Hybrid. Most people in that price range are not really concerned with fuel economy ... If I can spend $100k for a car, I know I can spend a little more and get the Bentley ... That is the problem

AHH!!! SHUT UP ABOUT "QUALITY AND RELIABILITY!!!!" IT'S THE MOST ANNOYING THING ON AUTOSPIES!!!

Lexus has QUALITY, RELIABILITY, LEXURY, blah, blah blah...

Lexus, what the hell happened to the trunk?

I guess LS600 drivers will have to tow a U-Haul trailer.

apparently, luxury buyers don't have much to carry around. 12 cubic feet should do.

EL34, how the housing business going? ;)anyway I hola you up when I'm looking to buy a new villa or something:)

Lexus

Lexus, the real estate market is doing great out here and when ever youre ready to purchase a home here in OC I'll hellp you out and give 50% of my commission to be used towards your closing cost in escrow.

BTW, I just got a new listing today.

My thoughts about the LS600h is just like any other v12 out there. The car cost too much and not much power difference compared to its sister model the LS460L. So why should I pay some $20k more for this to get only 50hps with couple of miles less on my gas usage? First I thought this car will output some 480hps like one of its advertisment said, but 430-440hps, aren't worth $20k.

Sorry, its $32k difference. Event worse.

More comments, hybrids cost alot, take the GS450h, it didn't succeed because of its price and what it offers compared to the other GSs. The same will be with this LS, it won't succeed cause it doesn't offer much more than the LS460L offers, yet costs way more.

The Enzo was limited production and it is a success because that number was reached when people purchased them. It wasn't a far for the mass consumer like this new generation LS. Success can be categorized in different ways. Ferrari needs no saying.

I agree, but the whole point is that a hybrid lexury sedan or sport (future from Toyota) are too expensive for what they return. So if there's waiting list on the GS450h, it doesn't mean it has lots of demand, not at all. Because they're produced in small numbers, then of course they'll have waiting lists on them. But, if imagine if the GS450 was priced by couple of thousands of dollars over the GS350 then it would've been a different story. Yet this will have another debate as killing one class with another one that's better. So, the point is, hybrids are good only for small cars, like the civic and prius, or Camry. Anything with V6 or V8, is just someone with lots of money that wants to spend them. :-)
Hope my point is clear.

what's the 0-60 time on the LSh?

It's also $25K less than the 6 Series. Go figure.

Only thing could stop its sales might be its trunk volume, which is the biggest minus for GS450h. Anything greater than 12 cubic feet will be no problem.

Seriously, 2,000 units LS600hL will be digested alone by those who wanted AWD LS but couldn't have before counting many others.

Xero ... having a long waiting list isnt doesnt make a car a success. Most of that is due to the hype. Success is what happens after the Hype. You state about how many GS450h's are in stock and the availability. I know for a fact that both of my local Lexus dealers have them and they are not alone. The only other Lexus to have sold out and stay hot for a year or so was the SC430. Alot of that was due to it being a retractable hard top conv and was very affordable. As with most hot things, they eventually cool off after a year. Especially, after about 6 months....

2. BMW and Mercedes have had more cars sold out for years, than lexus could ever dream of. 90% of the M's for BMW were sold out for more than a year. The new M3 right now which wont be out for another year, already has the first year sold out. Mercedes has a lot of cars on more than a year wait before ( CLS550, 2007 CL550, 2007 CL63, 1997 ML320, 1999 SLK230, 2002 SL550, CLK320 cab in 1999, CLK430 cab in 2000 to name a few ...

3. The problem is this car came in much more than anyone anticipated. I thought that it was going to start around $90k, but over $100k is too much. Most people that can spend over $100k can buy a car for $120 to $150k ... The Lexus is going to compete with the Audi S8, BMW 760Li ( limited to 1000 a year ), Alpina B7 ( limited to 250 ), Mercedes S55, Mercedes S63, Bentley Continental, Maseratti, Mercedes CL500 .... No offense, but Lexus is not in the same league as those cars.

And you can get a loaded S8 for $104K!!! It doesn't make sense. They're being too aggressive.

agree with nearly everything you said.
let's just wait and see how sold out the car is in june.

it's not like there are non-refundable $10,000+ deposits on these cars like those aston, bentley, porsche and other euros often require.

We weren't talking about sales, we were talking about prices.

Unlike Lexus, Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz build their cars as each customer orders them (the twelve-cylinder models). You can configure the A8L W12 with Audi Exclusive custom interior colors and woods (as well as any size of any type of rim in the Audi lineup), you can get the S-Class with a designo four-seat package, and there are also BMW Individual interiors/exteriors.

yes, let's wait to let the SALES figures speak for themselves.

That is so fabulous. I really do wish we had that here- it would be well worth the price.

Apparently, Audi is (hesitantly) adding "Audi Exclusive" studios to some of its high-end US dealers. If it comes to my area, I will be elated.

BMW Individual is pretty customizable on the 7 Series, too. I saw a white 750Li with fabulous five-spoke wheels that I've never seen before at the auto show- it also had white piping on the sites and the red wood trim from the Alpina B7.

Typos drive me crazy... "seats," not "sites."

I am also unhappy at using the word "fabulous" twice. It detracts from my post. Oh, well.

its already sold out for this year, you mean next year, lol.

everyone keeps quoting 'sold out.'
where is the information coming from? at least one reliable source please.

my understanding is that lexus dealers are just taking names without a deposit required. that doesn't equal 'sold.'

'friendly to the environment' = prius or civic hybrid.
a 5,000 pound car that gets 20mpg but called a hybrid = moral relativism

The LS600hL will get 20mpg, while the W12/760/S600 will get 15mpg.

See the difference now?

yes, i see the difference now.
saving the world one car at a time.

i still think it's shameful to call cars in this class environmentally friendly. better emission....great. many, many cars are SULEV. but the amount of raw material and gas it takes to fuel this things is not at all environmentally conscious. so they shouldn't claim it.

S4 ... That is enough of a savings to make some Bentley customer trade in his car for the Lexus

Much friendlier cars for the environment out there.

nobody who buys a car in this class cares about mileage. they all get shitty mileage...LS, S-class, 7-series.

Why would SULEV certification change your outlook on your vehicle? My son's Honda Civic has a SULEV certification; I had originally bought it for my daughter. He liked his previous car, a '98 A4 1.8T quattro with a ULEV certification, more. I wonder why?

Range, range, range. Do you really think the S600, W12 and 760 don't have huge gas tanks?

W12 tank: 23.8 gal

760 tank: 23.3 gal

S600 tank: 23.8 gal

The LS460L has a 22.2 gallon tank, but the 600hL's specs aren't on edmunds.com yet.

Quietness? Are you joking? You'd have to drive the A8L W12, 760Li and S600 before making that assumption. The hybrid is super-quiet, but the big Germans are tuned for ultra-luxury-- their quietness is deceiving, considering their huge engines.

have you ever been in an S-class. it's a paragon of quietness.

and range is a reason to buy this car? the S-class and 7-series have huge tanks. so i don't think wealthy buyers are going to recoup so much time between fill-ups to justify their purchase. lol.

I believe I posted this before, in response to the same post.

Even if I did, I'll say it again:

I disagree. If it was, say, $15K less, I would probably end up buying it for my wife.

Lots of smack being talked as expected.

This car will get the performance of an S600, 760Li, A8 W12 etc. without the high fuel economy and emissions.

Simple as that.

great claim. please back it up. what's the 0-60? what's the fuel economy? hmmm....lexus hasn't shared either of these stats. it's all just talk right now.

all the people talking smack about a $100k lexus, please go out and buy your $100k mb, bmw, or audi and support your favorite brand. your support will help your favorite brand spend the money on R&D to make future $100k cars better, which then in turn make competition harder for lexus (or anyone else) to compete in said $100k market.

so much b1tching. wah wah wah i never hear any complaining about the price that rolls royce commands over bentley or maybach. is the phantom really worth 2x flying spurs? no one cares, if you have the money you wouldnt care. people who complain, they dont have the money.

gsh ... not true . I have friends that have the money. They drive Bentley's, Ferrari, BMW's, Porsche, Mercedes and even the Lexus LX. Status is very important and Lexus doesnt relate to that very well. prestige is important. Being like the " Jones's" is very important. People that are extremely wealthy dont settle. They want the best of the best. Items that fit into their lifestyle and not to be outdone by the friends cause it is not cool. They are not going to go out and spend $100k on a toyota/lexus .. For that money, why not get a Mercedes SL550 or Cl550 or CLS550 or S550 ... For $100k they can have a V12 BMW or Alpina B7 ... you can get a Maseratti ... The Jaguar XKR ... Porsche 911 Turbo ... 1 year old Aston Martin DB7 ... Bentley Continental or Flying Spur ... That is some very exclusive company to be in.

The only people who would buy the LShL are:
A) Rich tree huggers (which are few in number)
B) Those who want the extra power offered in the hybrid version. That's all, though. But I don't think producing this car will be a mistake, just pricey. But look at Mercedes, they can sell $180k vehicles with only two seats.

That too. I knew there was one I was forgetting.

I think people who buy cars up in the 100K price range dont quite care about the cost, rather its about individuality , technology and image. The LS600h is another option out there albeit with a hybrid twist. Will they sell, you bet.

There's only one problem with this car and it is it looks like a $45,000 car.

if the only problem is looks for you, then i understand why the LS won world car of the year. no offense, but a lot more people like the way the LS looks, regardless of how it functions as a luxury car. besides, there are maybe 25 or so people who regularly post here. quite a small # to really say anything about any car.