The Car Connection reviews the Lexus LS600H!

Not bad 21mpg under 2008 EPA rules, although I expected more. But 21mpg is really good for such a heavy car with AWD.

It is interesting to note that the detuned 5.0-liter V-8 output 389 hp/385 lb-ft, which means the upcoming IS-F will have at least 385lb.ft of torque! That is close to 100lb.ft more than the M3.

Edmunds tested the LS600hL, it was slower to 60 than the LS460L by 0.1 seconds and tied the quarter mile. The Car Connection says expect 18mpg from the 600hL. LS460L gets 18/27. Performance is the same at best, mileage increases a bit in the city but is drastically lower on the highway. What is the point of this car?

there is no point.
people of means are not morons. they're not going to pay more for a model that is deficient to it's little brother in so many ways (weight, accelertaion, efficiency, etc.)

This car will be sold out and in high demand.

BMW 760Li MSRP $122,600
Weight 4905l bs
v12 438@6000 hp, 444@3950lb.ft
6sp
0-60mph 5.8s
Top speed 150mph
Fuel consumption 14/22mpg by pre-2008 rules ( ~12/20mpg in 2008 model)
vs.

BMW 750Li MSRP $78,900
Weight 4552lbs
v8 360hp@6300rpm, 360lb.ft@3400rpm
0-60mph 5.8s
Top speed 150mph
Fuel consumption 17/25mpg by pre-2008 rules

MSRP $122,600-MSRP $78,900= $43,700


LS600hL MSRP@$104,00 is a steal compared to 760Li.

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7/760liSedan/techdata.htm
http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7/750liSedan/techdata.htm

supra:
you said you would be very disappointed if the LS600 got anything under 23mpg (in the last posting on the car).

now you're happy with 21mpg.

i don't get it??

you also all said that it would get 25mpg+ and be under 5 seconds to 60 besting the LS460, 7 series and s-class.

the track record of the lexus boys predictions: not so good.

it's a steal because almost nobody will pay the same price for a lexus vs. a mercedes or bmw. lexus simply doesn't have the same pricing power.

they're only making 2,000. let's see if those sell.

Honestly, I am a bit disappointed. :( I definitely expected more. But that is still a great achievement by Lexus, a product no competition can response.

Sweet. Good for the LS600h.

"Simply dropping in a larger displacement engine would have required no creativity," contents Moritaku Yoshida, chief engineer on the LS program, "and not made the brand statement we wanted."

It took guts to admit that and then come up with the LS600hL. I applaud Lexus for going their own route.

I agree with you on the whole engine thing. Instead of playing catch up with engine design, they are trying new things. I beleive there are plenty of wealthy people out there who will appreciate the innovation of the LS. After all, that is how many of these people became wealthy in the first place. I still think that Lexus missed the mark with the LS, but hey its only round 1 of many to come.

"Simply dropping in a larger displacement engine would have required no creativity," contents Moritaku Yoshida, chief engineer on the LS program, "and not made the brand statement we wanted."

Whay kind of brand statement is this when you spend loads of R&D money and effort for worse performance, worse dynamics (increase in weight from battery), decrease trunk space (battery again), for slightly better fuel efficiency on stop and go traffic???

Creativity?? I would actually call it a waste of creativity.

Afterall, it's just another marketing spin....

Anyway, it's not like Toyota doesn't have any good V12 engine in its house. Just use the same one in the Toyota Century. Stuff it in the LS, and it'll sell like hotcakes. Such a move would also sound better to the investors in terms of ROI (i.e. minimal investment, maximal profit).

Such a move would receive heavy criticism on behalf of everyone in the automotive community as Lexus just copying and pasting from Toyota. That's exactly what they were striving NOT to do. Did you even read the quote I selected carefully?

With any new technology there will always be areas for improvement, but to call it a waste is completely inappropriate. Also, different from the Germans, Lexus can afford to continuously spend millions of dollars on research and development.

Will, you are amazing. Go Lexus! Mmm... Lexus. Reliability and Quality are all that matter. Yay!

"Such a move would receive heavy criticism on behalf of everyone in the automotive community as Lexus just copying and pasting from Toyota. That's exactly what they were striving NOT to do."

Ok, but the LS is actually a Toyota Celsior until 2006, and the SC is actually a Toyota Soarer. These two have been selling in great numbers. As far as I'm concern, both of them often receive praises, not criticisms on "cutting and pasting"

I actually like the way Toyota is cutting and pasting things from Toyota to Lexus. This is called efficiency, and profit maximizing.

"Did you even read the quote I selected carefully?"

Yes, I did. I stand by my original statement that it is a waste of creativity, waste of R&D money, a complete marketing spin, and not a genuine technological breakthrough.

"With any new technology there will always be areas for improvement, but to call it a waste is completely inappropriate. Also, different from the Germans, Lexus can afford to continuously spend millions of dollars on research and development."

With any new technology there will always be areas for improvement? What a lame excuse. If Moritaku Yoshida is genuine about improving the brand and the LS's image, he should have improved these new techs before bringing them to the market. Bringing out subpar new techs with a higher premium price tags is not a correct way to improve a brand's or a model's image. A smart shopper will always stick with the regular LS, not the 600h.

I don't know, and don't really care about the German manufacturers. Before you say that they don't have cash to spend on R&D, at least back it up with some numbers.

Back to the subject, ROI is always the number one concern of shareholders. They always want minimal investment and maximum profit. Toyota does have loads of the shareholder's cash to spend, but spending it on fruitless programs like F1 will never appeal to the shareholders. Spending it on developing the 600h, instead of stuffing a V12 in the LS will probably not appeal to them either.

Speaking of brand image, ask anyone here whether the 600h would do a better job, or a V12 LS would do a better job.

Speaking of brand image, ask anyone here whether the 600h would do a better job, or a V12 LS would do a better job in improving the Lexus brand image.

so to differentiate from toyota they spent tons of money to make a slower, fatter, more expensive car?

Actually, If I were in the market for such an automobile, I would ignore the hype that implies that only Japanee cars are well put together, and pay attention to such things as snob appeal because, let's face it, almost no one in this price class talks about miles per gallon. The top Lexus doesn't even have its own body, wheras cars like the S-Class ride on their own frames. The is also the qestion about the styling of the Lexus; before they were apeing Mercedes, and now the're apeing their own cheaper cars (ES).

Agent001, if you go to www.wheels24.co.za you will see that lexus is seriously rocking the establisment, the LS460 is outselling the 7 series, the A8 and is about to shake the S class from the pedestal in S.A. That is fascinating!

Actually that is only in the U.S. When they outsell them worldwide - then that will be something to crow about. The world is much bigger than the United States and unless you realize - the car business is global and countries everywhere are getting more wealthy. If they can pull it off I will say that you are right - but as for now - you are "blowing smoke"

The LS sells well in the US because it is also significantly cheaper. I'd say the S-Class sales are pretty damn impressive when you factor in the price.

The LS460 is not CHEAPER!!! $25,000 is not a lot of money!!!!!!!!!!!!! RELIABILITYQUALITY. Mmm... money. Mmm...Lexus...

Why don't the 7 series or A8 sell well than?

Maybe because the 7 Series is six years old, and the A8 is five?

But these are prestige vehicles that cost less than an S or LS. They should be flying out the door.

do you understand how auto sales work?

almost without exception, sales spike in the first model year and trail off each year after that. you also typically see a mild boost when a vehicle is refreshed, but then it trails off again. with the exception of pinnacle cars like bentley or rolls, this almost always holds true.

A 5 litre V12 should be easy - the S600 is only a 5.5 biturbo.
And this reviewer did not spend a long time with the car.
However "Actually, we have another big issue, and that's with the Lexus Advanced Parking Guidance System. Sure, with an engineer sitting by our side, we got it to work three out of four tries, but the process was slow and cumbersome. And trying it on our own, our success rate was significantly lower."

Just putting a V12 in there would defeat the whole purpose! As I have already attempted to point out, Lexus engineers did not want to just drop a V12 in, or just attach a hybrid. What they came up with is a seamlessly-integrated V8 hybrid with a massive amount of horsepower with mpg not associated with such a vehicle of its stature.

As the article says "Price is also a plus. Yes, it may be the most expensive Lexus ever, but LS600h comes in at least $15,000 less than European competitors - more like $25,000 considering comparable equipment packages" Lexus is apparently a premium brand right? Or so you fanboys keep claiming. If you're regarded as a premium brand, you wouldn't be trying to undercut the big 3 so greatly. Just shows how Lexus can't charge that extra money for the prestige factor, becausr there isn't any.

Good post, you speak the truth. And I see the Lexus fanboys deboosted you because it was too much for them to take. My gosh what a bunch of pathetic little losers.

German MRSP are not their selling prices. Those vehicles are discounted all the time.

If you give a crap if your stuff gets boosted or de-boosted than you are the pathetic one.

Oh, really? Most of the high-end German cars (starting with V8 midsize sedans and up) sell for over sticker. The best I could do with my car ($63K sticker) was about $62,500. You can't seriously get a "discount" on a high-end German luxury car... well, the R500, but that's different.

really when was the last time you got an S-600 at a discount or an S-65? please inform me where

and lexus never discounts to sell aging models like the RX to support it's position a #1 'luxury' brand?

or to push slow IS sales.

or to unload the old LS before the new one came out.

S4- then you stink at negotiations. EVERY German car in the LS class, including the S class is being sold for very little over invoice to make the sale. Believe me, I am directly tuned in to this market.

You know even if Lexus were to add a V12 into the LS, most of people would still priase the Germans only because they've made so many. In fact the German 3's top line limos are V12s. I applaud Lexus trying to not jump into the frenzy of being just like the Germans. If people really wanted to drive a super limo at 155mph take the Germans, nothing about the LS600hL says "I want to drive fast". This car is more about the luxuries it offers in a super limo.

except it's no super limo like all the Lexus fans think. A simple comparison by Jeremy Clarkson got them to all believe that.

The LS600H has a front end I wished the normal 460 would have but I guess it's to distinguish the two models. I would buy a Diesel German or a Hybrid LS if I really wanted to be get good mileage.

Why are all the Lexus fans we get here such RETARDS?

People won't waste money on a Lexus so quickly because it doesn't stand for something. I'm talking outside the US, where people actually care more about status than no-name brands like Lexus. Enough said.

My gosh the posts on this site are pathetic.

Yes, LexusFanForever. You are so right. Rolls-Royce sucks in comparison with our mighty Lexus Gods and Lexus Superfriends. Mmm... Lexus.

My GX470 has a backup camera! Take that, GL450!

Your GX 470 is a slow, bad handling rebadged European Toyota Land cruiser!
woo you!

North America is the most competitive market in the World for Luxury vehicles. That is why it is a major feat to be ranked number 1 in terms of sales. Why try to diminish this fact?

Europe is the most competitive market in the world, not America. America is the biggest, but Europe is the most competitive. Need I explain?

Yes explain please.

the ONLY thing RR and Bentley (and the germy 3) have over Lexus is "heritage."

toyota benchmarked the RR decades ago, and built their version for the Japanese Imperial Family and other Asian heads of state. it is called the Toyota Century. and it has had a v12 and ALL the lux amenities. even RR made do with PUSHROD engines until recently.
so the Century, and now the Lexus LS600, not only matched RR, it was more technically ADVANCED.

again, the ONLY thing euro snobs have as far as TRUE bragging rights is heritage.

let's be careful how we define luxury. in the automotive industry $70,000+ is defined as the premium segment. i.e. REAL luxury cars. not ES or RX or 3-series or C-class.

who do you think dominates there?

mercedes, bmw, audi, porsche, range rover. and in much smaller volume bentley, maserati, rolls, ferrari, etc. lexus barely plays in the premium segment.

LOL

You know I must bring this up again. In this segment at 100K and up the cars are made to such perfection it's hard to decide what to get. That is also why I think loyalty plays an important role. Lexus fans will buy a Lexus if they were happy with previous models and likewise with the German Audi,BMW,& Mercedes.

Despite all this flame wars going on with these topics I think we can agree to the fact that any car for 100K is of supreme quality and have their own pros and cons.

I think we can say that the LS/A8/7/S are all engineering marvels in their own rights. European have had a longer history in luxurious barges. Lexus the new comer hasn't always been innovative with design but they have done extremely well with support from Toyota we can't take that away from them.

We all feud because the cars are so good these days and so much attention is paid to detail that if we all had the choice we would probably buy them all. I think there's no win win situation because whatever you buy another car always has something better to offer. No car is perfect and that's life.

Anyways, I placed an order for an S550 and GS450H for my company and waiting for the A5 to come out. I can't wait!

I understand your point of one company having a few marks that set them apart and above. But people here are comparing the German's V12 power and sport to a quiet and more luxurious Lexus. It was never made to speed as fast as a S63, it was all about the luxury and comfort. Its what sets it apart from the rest.

But you also can't forget what the German's are about as well. S-Class is all about luxury, refinement, and comfortability with many innovative designs. The A8 W12 is also luxurious and have one of the best fine finished interiors in the market today. The 760 is more sporty than any of the two I just mentioned. BMW has alawys incorporated sport with luxury and Audi almost the same. Mercedes has always been less of sport but more of luxury. Lexus, im my opinion has always been trying to compete with Mercedes as their cars in handling haven't always been the most nimble. Like wise with Mercedes but their AMG's aren't bad handling cars but not the best.

I think Lexus has done a great job with the new LS in comparison to the old one. The old one was bland and boring. The current one has a little more spice to it and it looks much better than the predecessor. It looks like how a luxury sedan should and I think for the North American market it will do very well. Why? because other domestic luxury brands such as Chrysler/Cadillac/Lincoln are not up to par with Lexus. However on a world wide scale Lexus has much to do to convince European car owners to switch over. Perhaps if marketing was as good as the marketing in the US it may win some hearts of the German owners on a world wide scale.

I think the LS is the benchmark luxury sedan in the US and the sedans from the big III are the benchmarks for Europe. I also think that since the Lexus badge was catered to the US it should have great sales. It's the same as bringing Cadillac over to the UK and convince Brits that an American luxury car can be better than a British luxury car. It's the same case with Lexus and the Euro's.

Although the S-Class is beautifulsexy and probably nicer than the LS, id take the LS over it for the Reliability and Quality. Who needs a fancy interior or styling or performance when you can have an eight-speed transmission, Reliability, and Quality?

Edmunds tested the LS600hL, it was slower to 60 than the LS460L by 0.1 seconds and tied the quarter mile. Lexus predicts a 20/22 city/highway mileage rating for the 600hL, LS460L gets 18/27. There is no performance gain, mileage increases a bit in the city but is drastically lower on the highway. What is the point of this car?

Yes, we are so smart!!! I am so with you!!! WE KNOW HOW TO BUY CARS, unlike German carfanboy!!! Lexis are so sexyluxurious and have RELIABILITY and QUALITY!!! We have taste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LEXUS GODS FOREVER, UNITE! GO "L!" SUPERPOWER LEXUSTOYOTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mmm... Lexusmoneyparksitself.

lexusfan:

how are people SMART for paying more for a slower, fatter, less efficient car that's basically the same as one that costs $30,000 less?

Lexus is not ultra luxury but you seem to believe it so much. Have you even tasted ultra luxury? Lexus is good but not that good.

It's not whether you're smart or not. You use this as an excuse because the ultra wealthy will be looking at the S600, A8 W12, 760, and of course the top of luxury world: Bentley, RR, & Maybach. However if they are all about the environment they may look into a Hybrid but even then if they have liked Euro cars they may look towards a Diesel as well. The new Bluetec diesels emissions are good and fuel effiency is good too.

GX470 & LexusFanForever,

Do you two even own a Lexus? or do you own a Toyota thinking it's a Lexus? If you don't then you wouldn't know how it feels to drive one therefore you're just a band wagoner and hopped on because your friends own one and they SAY it's good but you really don't know for yourself. Go out test drive Lexus and some European. I assure you Lexus is not the best. However they definitely aren't the worst. I love the GS so you can't say my comments are biased.

Lexus doesn't have notariety in the 100k+ range to make this a profitable line. It's more strategic. A 21 MPG hybrid sounds almost embarassing.

This seems to be more a production concept car to drive technology down into the flagship models than anything.

With this car they will gain the notariety. A 21 MPG hybrid may sound "embarrassing" to you, but not to the more knowledgable people about the various other circumstances of this long wheelbase full-size, 438hp, AWD luxury sedan.

Yes, we are SO knowledgable! We are superior to you "German" car buyers! Will, you really know how to please the LEXUS GODS! Mmm.. GX470..

Mmm... Lexus!!! RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY RELIABILITY QUALITY.

will:

come on. even lexus makes some mistakes. stop trying to justify a 21mpg hybrid that's fatter, slower, and less efficient than its gasoline counterpart. people driving them will be called hypocrites if they dare tout their 'hybrid.'

"The new sedan is a worthy offering, comfortable, lavish, prestigious, and surprisingly fun-to-drive. While we might have a few minor complaints, the overall package is quite spectacular and we expect the market to pay serious attention when the first LS600h sedans roll into Lexus showrooms".

A fair review.

Yes, completely UN-BIASED, unlike many reviews that don't have HONEST, RELIABLE, HIGH-QUALITY opinions! They really know how to review this car! Nobody who says bad things about it knows ANYTHING! We, being LEXUS FANS, know EVERYTHING! Nobody should be allowed to buy KRAUTmobiles, becuase LEXUS IS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!! SEXYLEXUS4EVER!!!!!!!!!!!

Mmm... Lexus.

yes. fact-based. totally objective. lol.

okay people need to understand, we cant compare the gas mileage yet.

the LS460 mpg is rated on the 2007 scale and the hybrid under the 2008 scale which is a big difference

either way, 21mpg sucks for a hybrid.

LEXUS WILL TAKE OVER EUROPE JUST LIKE THEY'VE TAKEN OVER THE SMARTEST BESTEST COUNTY IN THE WORLD, THE UNITEDSTATES OF LEXUS!!!!! GOOOOOOOOOO LEXUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mmm... Lexus.

I get it. You have a Lexus name and post pro-Lexus comments, but you are actually a Lexus hater.

Sorry, but there are already a bunch of weiners here doing that already.

There are still some open positions for the "Lexus is for gay people" posters.

LOL, he has some ridiculously hilarious comments, though. Sounds like what some of the overzealous Lexus fans say, except exaggerated. (You are not one of them)

In fact, you are both incorrect.

I am very "for" the Lexus brand, and I do have a GX470 ('04) in adittion to a Mercedes-Benz E320 ('05).

I have been looking (curiously) at this website for months. This site is pretty annoying. I am mocking the more idiotic Lexus fans, yes-- but I'd buy another GX if I were looking to replace it.

So, although my posts are sarcastic and I know there are not any "Lexus Gods" and that Lexus will not "take over the world," I do admire many of the cars they produce. It is amusing to take on this personality on the site... so I will continue to do so. Cheers.

Whoops, almost forgot:

Mmm... Lexus...

Bestest?
What are you, 4?

thank god you aren't real.
please, i was believing you...

lexus execs admitted that the LS460 can't play with the big boys in the last article.

so the LS600 falling short in comparison to the LS460 makes one wonder...how can the LS600 compete with the big boys?

They were refering to V12 automobiles. That's why the LS600hL was created.

BMW 760Li MSRP $122,600
Weight 4905l bs
v12 438@6000 hp, 444@3950lb.ft
6sp
0-60mph 5.8s
Top speed 150mph
Fuel consumption 14/22mpg by pre-2008 rules ( ~12/20mpg in 2008 model)
vs.

BMW 750Li MSRP $78,900
Weight 4552lbs
v8 360hp@6300rpm, 360lb.ft@3400rpm
0-60mph 5.8s
Top speed 150mph
Fuel consumption 17/25mpg by pre-2008 rules

MSRP $122,600-MSRP $78,900= $43,700

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7/760liSedan/techdata.htm
http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7/750liSedan/techdata.htm

If I remember after reading prior articles, the 760 BMW is actually quicker than that. However, they do get similar accel. times, yes.

Mmm... Lexus...

Lexus win in every other way, which are? Please examples, I seriously don't think that Lexus win in every other way other than the 0-60 times. OH, also...the big 3 will sell more of their top end models than Lexus will purely on name, before people even look at the specification lists. I have 100K to spend on a car, oh...Lexus is the first name in my head lol...most people won't even loom toward Lexus.

Lexus win in every other way, which are? Please examples, I seriously don't think that Lexus win in every other way other than the 0-60 times. OH, also...the big 3 will sell more of their top end models than Lexus will purely on name, before people even look at the specification lists. I have 100K to spend on a car, oh...Lexus is the first name in my head lol...most people won't even loom toward Lexus.

And dropping a bigger engine in? The German's are renown for gettign the most power from the specific engine possible, a V8 they will tune to death before ever thinking about moving up to 10 or 12.

this car is an insult to those who actually give a damn about the environment. and for lexus to sell it as environmentally friendly is hypocritical.

there is NOTHING environmentally friendly about a car that uses over 5,300 pounds of raw materials (which has to be shipped across the ocean on heavily polluting ships), gets a 'claimed' 21 mpg, and requires a massive nickel battery (which is toxic disaster to dispose of and pollutes the air horriby when the nickel is smelted).

market it as a supreme luxury sedan. fine. but this eco-thing. bullshit.

I totally agree with this.

Yes, couldn't agree more. Lexus are attempting to be special and move up and compete with the "big 3" through having this hybrid technology. They will never earn the name of a prestige car maker outside of Amercia and now it seems Asia, where they will fall for the hybrid technology as they will become the eco friendly countries of the world...*hugs tree*

Also Huu76,

I'm waiting for your examples, I hate it when people state things that accuse some of the greatest automobile manufacturers of all time of something so, well, offensive:

http://www.autospies.com/news/Lexus-Announces-Pricing-for-2008-Lexus-LS-600h-L-Luxury-Hybrid-Sedan-14024/

Please get those examples for me, and for all thise that aren't Lexus fanboys :)

The hybrid LS will sell to those people that want the "most expensive Lexus". That's the same mindset as people who get the V12 Benz simply because their neighbor has the V8. Buyers in this market don't neccessarily have a passion for performance, but a desire to own the most expensive variant.

Yes the Germans have more heritage and prestige, but aside from hopping in a time machine, the Lexus brand has to start somewhere right?

its a v8 HYBRID. can't get MORE exclusive than that! just about EVERY mfgr. has made a v12 at some time. and toyota has one too, in their Century sedan.

but there is ONLY ONE v8 HYBRID on the planet.

made by the Number ONE auto maker on the planet. #1 in QUALITY, #1 in RELIABILITY, #1 in TECHNOLOGY, and now #1 in sales as well.

and it's a stain on the hybrid name. buy a prius.

LS600h is not even on market and german fans got LYSSA! Even a boy here named enthusiastx11 put words on others...

IF YOU WERENT SO BLIND GERMAN FAN BOYS YOU SHOULD HAVE READ Bob Carter comments about LS600h on 2006 New York show...

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2006-new-york-auto-show-lexus-cga.htm

"this is the most technologically advanced automobile in the world."

Wait, so what one reviewer says is true, suddenly? I have never said that the LS isn't a fine car, but many S-Class articles have opened by saying the S550 is the most advanced. Does that make that true, too?

a friend of mine has a passion for lexus cars. he currently owns an LS430, GX470, SC430, and IS300 (daughters car). the only non lexus is his SL500. this is the type of person who lexus cares about. not some internet flamer who drives a 328i and thinks its the best thing since sliced bread. or people who would "prefer" a V12 but cant even afford a V8. stop talking as if everyone has a $100k to blow on a single car. the LS600h comes with more than just the hybrid powertrain for the extra money. i cant wait until my friend gets his. ive never been in a car with seats that warm/cool you and give a massage.

Yeah, that definitely makes it worth buying....

you just have.

According to Lexus LS600h is a whole different league compared to LS460.
LS600h is a second quicker than LS460 and still gets about 20 mpg.

It features an amazing AWD system, admirable suspension with electric motor-torque stabilizers, climate control that senses body temperature, subquiet cabin, an 8speed gearbox simulator, several modes of driving, LED front lights, etc,etc,etc,etc...

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2006-new-york-auto-show-lexus-cga.htm

Thx for the facts, secondly, I just happen to be in a situation where i have frequent access to the web, thus meaning this site too. And win a game of chicken with you? I'm not attempting to, the fact u see everything as a threat makes me think you know Lexus aren't at all superior to the Big 3.

I feel sorry that you support a brand thaty will never sell well outside of North America and Asia...and by Asia you must mean ONLY Japan. Cause the Chinese and Dubai etc are still going for their Bentleys, BMWs, Mercedes and Audi's.

And again, you talk about saving $80000, yeah...I agree, Lexus are a value brand...

*and only ever Japan, typo...sry.

I have read many of the comments on here for quite a while, and have come to the conclusion that there really is quite a lot of shit to wade through, occasionally interspersed with valid, informed opinions.
I work for lexus and at the end of the day, throughout all of these comments not one of you car enthusiasts seems to be grasping the real point of the 600h, the point with which I will be selling these cars on throughout the rest of the next few years.
Lexus makes performance hybrids to try and find a balance between having a lot of performance, size, luxury but also to create much less of an environmental impact. Therefore as with many people buying cars around the £100,000 mark, MPG is of no importance, but if a rich person wants to drive around in the lap of luxury and have power underfoot when needed, the lS600h will be absolutely perfect as it gives out considerably less CO2 than any other competitor.
The Merc S600 is 340g/km whereas the 600h is 219g/km. This means that over 100km the LS will emit over 1.2 tonnes less C02 than the Merc. Therefore it allows environmentally conscious rich people to drive a luxury car which they are used to, but make much less of a carbon footprint. This is why on the UK's preorder list are such people as Richard Branson, Head of Sainsbury's supermarket, Head of Tesco, Bob Gelsof etc. All are people who want luxury transportation but also want to show they are trying to be as responsible towards the environemtn as this will allow.
That is the USP of the LS600h, not that its as fast as an S600, because at the moment environment is a far larger issue than speed.

your maths is wrong. over 100km it will emit 12KG less CO2. over 100000km then yes, 1.2 tonnes.

Yes, MPG very good. However, the people with the money to buy the car probably either own, or have invested in companies where they produce god knows how many Co2 emissions, as well as this...how many business trips or family holidays will these claimed "environment friendly" people take...with this much money, alot i will presume.

Driving a hybrid will not make up for a lifetime of abuse to the envirionment, people think they can save the world driving a Lexus hybrid, nice thinking. Chumps.

No they don't think they can change the world, nor do they believe it will make up for the carbon dioxide they have emitted whilst pursuing the success which has allowed them to buy one in the first place. As I said before, Lexus has merely come up with something which allows rich people to have all the luxury, performance and prestige but be more environmentally responsible than anything else in the class. Its not like richard branson is going to travel around UK in a diesel ford fiesta is it??!

No, it's not...you;re right. However, remove the word prestige, because in Europe people do not regard Lexus as this. Infact, most wouldn't even say they have performance in comparison to their competition.

Are you from europe? Because I am and I know that lexus has more and more prestige everyday. Yes its true that when looking at ls or s class, the mercedes does indeed have more prestige. But the marketing of lexus in europe is completely different to the UK, sometimes to a frustrating extent i.e. every bit of marketing is to retain brand image with no offers or obvious advertising to push sales. This has all led to lexus having quite a lot of prestige as an entire brand.
The s class is still known to be the pinnacle of flagship saloons but as an overall brand, lexus has a lot to offer in terms of image. I feel that in being such a massive success in the USA, some of this image has been diluted so that many people in America now see lexus as a poor mans luxury car. Mercedes only really offers top of the range or more expensive models in the usa, but in England, when you see a million and one c class basic cars being driven as company cars, it soon dilutes the image of mercedes as well.

mercedes has been marketing entry cars since the 190E in 1985. it has diminished their image. in fact, they sell more high end car now than ever.

should have read "hasn't diminished their image" as they're now selling more high end cars than ever.

The 190E is an entry car in comparison to the rest of their range at that time but compared to A B and C class they now sell it is not even an entry car. Never mind lending their name to smart cars. Trust me in UK their image has been diluted. They still have some great cars, in my opinion cars like S, CLS, SL etc. are superb. But not one of them offers all the luxury and performance you would associate with these kind of cars, as well as having these low emissions which are so highly vaunted in the press every day.

Lexus aren't special. And Mercedes' image hasn't been diluted. Why do you think they still sell so well? People see them as the ultimate status symbol. And you mock the A and B class etc, these were made as they needed to accomodate the family market, as in young children from very middle class families who want a Mercedes, but need a practical one. And the S Class does indeed have the luxury you would associate with a flagship Mercedes, world renown as the BEST. Yeah, you heard.

check this review out..
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/208362/lexus_ls600h.html

AutoExpress quote the same 0-62 time as MSN UK.

On the open road, the 5.0-litre V8 engine chatters into life, propelling the 2,270kg machine from 0-62mph in only 6.3 seconds.

That is slow for any V8.

From what I have observed, their image has taken a hit. They are no longer "cool" or "different," as they were when they came out in 1989. For the very reason that there are so many on the road, my wife doesn't want another one. I've said this before- she is a "normal" car buyer. I have a few (female) friends who also say Lexus cars are too popular, and therefore would not want one. Exclusivity means a lot, even if you don't set out to be exclusive.

The Lexus LS600hL is the perfect car for Rosie O'Donnell and Alec Baldwin :)

I'm not mocking A or B class mercedes at all. But their image IS diluted. Its just that as americans you cannot see the effect this has had because mercedes markets itself in america, the same way lexus markets itself in europe, as pinnacle of luxury. Both have completely opposite marketing practices different sides of atlantic.

And still not one of you german car fans is level-headed and sensible enough to address the point that whilst the s600 and s8 are fast and luxurious, neither give off the same impression and CO2 emissions that the more environmentally responsible 600h does. i.e. that I'm a millionaire and want it all, but am willing to make small changes to my life to leave less of a carbon footprint behind me when I'm dead and buried.

I am not American to start with, I am from the U.K, England to be precise. Secondly, many people around me are into cars, and the area i live in is very wealthy (i don't mean to sound arrogant). But my point is, i know people are always going to buy from the Big 3...no millionaire out of the media eye thinks like that.

Yeah, RB and head of Tescos and whoever else you mentioned do, but only because they must be seen as caring. People who are wealthy and buy cars in this class simply don't care enough to make the switch, and that is the truth.

I'm from England too, and I agree completely. No millionaire considers a Lexus.
I'm near Kensington, a pretty rich area, and there I see about 8 S class a day, but very rarely a Lexus.

As I've said before, s class still really is the car to beat. But if you are are both from england then you must notice the ever increasing amounts of publicity, media hype and pressure from the government about the environment we are experiencing in this country. Therefore you must also be able to see that even millionaires might start seeing the benefits of the ls600h, whether it be to change people's perception of them, or to actually partially slow down their contribution to environmental pollution.

I have yet to see what the fuss about over this so called benchmark s class. A car that sports Citroen C3 wheel arches and this fantastic simple look no nonsense dash board (a typical line from a UK car magazine talking about a german car)that looks like a 1960's sideboard. Very innovative. Thank god Lexus didn't copy this and kept it original and simple.

For some unknown reason the british journalists have a different language when they talk about Lexus and always try to dismiss them in a sarcastic way which is becoming very boring. I've had the german cars and they are good and the BM does have the driving dynamics, but overall the Lexus cars are much much better.

Lexus ALWAYS understates their 0 - 60 times by at least .5 seconds. Here are the results of the 5 Top Luxury Cars in this test which was reported in the January Issue of Car and Driver. Please note these tests were all done on the same day at about the same time and at the same altitude. The results reflect the average of 3 runs and all cars are the 2007 vintage.

Mercedes S550 5.6, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.1 (Benz specs show 5.4)
BMW 750iL 5.7, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.2
Jag XJ Super 6.0 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.5
Lexus LS460L 6.2 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.6
Audi A8 6.8 0 - 60 quarter mile 15.2

Note that Lexus, as usual, is more than the 5.4 the manufacturer CLAIMS to get by .8 seconds.

Also note the LS430 (prior model the LS460 replaced) was rated at 295 HP and was actually 278 when Lexus corrected their rating. And there were no refunds or apologies from the so-called "quality" car company. ABC - Always Be Careful what you buy from the Lexus people.....

Not just lexus but all mfg's hp ratings droped.The rating system was changed by the feds.The mpg ratings are changing for 08' to reflect more real world driving conditions.So be careful who you take advice from on this site,it could be someone who is just trying to promote the brand they like.I would think most smart young people would want to see companies who sell products that are more enviromentally friendly.

For all those who are curious, but don't want to count. That is one original post: and 16 duplications of it.

...They took them away...oh well. My message now makes no sense.