Romance and Sex Appeal - Says Chris Bangle on the CS Concept

For such a conservative design company as BMW has been I must go against the grain and say that I applaud his desire to "stand apart". Despite all criticism, it's ironic that iDrive has been mimicked by Audi, & Benz. The new LS appears to be a Lexus "remix" of the 750iL, and the current 7 has been a huge financial success for BMW. As an owner of a 745Li I still love the body, and love the performance. Too bad Bangle can't mimic some better interiors and overall quality...

"Too bad Bangle can't mimic some better interiors and overall quality..."

I have to say BMW has the worst interiors among its competitors. Cheap materials, ugly looking, poor fit and finish.

The new 3 coupe and X5 are the only models in the whole BMW line up that I would consider good looking on the outside. However, their interiors look horrible.

Other than the leather seats, the interior materials of the 3 coupe are stunningly cheap for its price.

First off, I admit that design is completely subjective. To me, I am glad that there are designers out there willing to push the envelope.
Secondly, arrogant designers tend to be the ones that leave the largest imprint in any industry. Meek designers are rarely ever influential.
Lastly, the only 'criticism' that Bangle and Hooydonk will listen to from the public is in terms of vehicle sales. Now I don't know how the specific sales numbers of their designs have performed but my point is that it's not very probable that Bangle and Hooydonk are losing sleep because you and me are blogging about the 'Bangle behind' while vehicle sales still reflect positively on their designs. So realize when you say things like, "When is BMW going to fire Chris Bangle and Adrian van Hooydonk? Two of the most arrogant and ignorant designers who never accept criticisms" that not everyone might agree with you and that we should all be glad that there are designers out there passionate enough to evolve the brand identity.

Well, read his interview, and you'll see how arrogant he is. BMW sells because of the BMW badge and the driving dynamics, not because of his pathetic designs. However, he shamelessly used sales number to defend himself from the critics.

http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2005/02/stories/07/1.html

TruenoAE86, I think that Bangle is a greatest designer,...ever? And do you know why I think that? Its because he's willing to take chances...And he doesn't listen to people like you to give input about his designs.

So clearly, Bangle 1, and people like yourself 0.

Don't hate...appreciate.


G

"Two of the most arrogant and ignorant designers who never accept criticisms"

Really? Have you met them personally?

I certainly dont agree with any of this schlock. I also find the BMW CS to be an amazing looking automobile.

Bangle and Van Hooydonk have raised the bar with emotional designs that look like nothing else on the road. They single handedly reinvented BMW styling and judging from sales, their risks paid off.

This guy just sounds pissed that BMW is doing so well. Period.

I'm not biased towards any car company. In fact, I was really interested in purchasing the new 3 coupe. But its poor interior killed the deal.

Bangle designed the last X5...he can do good things. And would he really do the interior material choices? Surely he "designs" the style, not the fine details.
And I love the Z4, but the interior could be better. I'd still buy one though. At the moment it's my "save up for" car.

Bangle needs a refresher course in design school or is there some Freudian reason for his design quirks?

i don't know about perfection, but the designs grow on me. The more angles I see of the CS, the more I like it. Hats off.

I too am glad that there are designers willing to take a chance. I just don't personally think Bangle has been successful at creating designs that will be considered beautiful, or stunning....now or in the future. It's easy to say that his designs have been successful, since BMW sales have been strong......but what if he had actually greated a truly stunning design.....how huge would their sales increases have been then? We'll never know. In my opinion, the excellence of BMW's driving characteristics have been their saving grace....not his odd designs. (the current 3 series is actually pretty good, if not a bit feminine, but to this day, I still don't like the 7.)

100% agree with what you have said!!! BMW's strong sales has a lot more to do with the BMW badge and the engineering. BMW could have sold even more cars without their pathetic designs. Need a real example? I was about to become a 3 coupe owner. Sat inside the car at the dealership, the cheap interior killed the deal right off. Didn't even bother with a test drive afterwards.

Study's are suggesting that there's a vocal minority on the objection to BMW's newer designs. Their sales figures aren't slowing down with the new designs, and reasons people chose other cars aren't because of BMWs looks.

Even the most critical folks like some of the new BMWs. Most everyone loves the six series and the new 335 coupe. Most critical are on the "Bangle-butt Seven" which has been updated. But the seven series sales have not slowed.

"Their sales figures aren't slowing down with the new designs, and reasons people chose other cars aren't because of BMWs looks."

BMW might have even sold more cars without their pathetic designs.

you do have a problem with BMW!!
I mean the fact that you find the exterior design ugly or whatever does not mean everyone else does; so surely BMW's badge does help it sell, but it's only so because it's been forever put on very good to excellent cars. Thinking that people would buy anything with a BWM badge on it is like saying some people would throw their money away, no one is that dumb!
as for the interior, i don't know what to say to you other than that for the last 10 years, i haven't read anything but praise about it, and the fact that the iDrive layout and interface have been copied by Audi Mercedes, with variations, of course, but copied nonetheless,
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

I somewhat like the styling compared to other "Bangled" vehicles . It seems to rival the CLS and upcoming Panamera. I'd have to see its final version and drive it to offer a better opinion.

amazing looking but in the end it's damn ugly. romance and sex appeal... lol it's not even close to alfa romeo! though i agree that the CS is truly unique and very out of the world. but c'mon... it's fugly.

Yes, fugly is the word.

Amendment to my earlier post....I just saw the pics of the CS in Autoweek....I have to say this design is pretty stunning. If this translates to an actual car, I'd say BMW design is about to take a huge dramatic step.

To the folks who love Bangle and Van Hooydonk's work, just take a look at the following.

E46 interior:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.cooper2/New%20Car%20-%20M3%20pics/M3%20for%20sale%20pics/M3%20interior.JPG

E90 interior:
http://upload.isaab.net/330xi_interior.jpg

Speak from your heart, which one looks better?

If the E90 interior does look fine to you, go to your local BMW dealer, and feel the material. You'll be shocked by the cheapness. Is BMW trying to cut cost? Or are Bangle and Van Hooydonk too cheap to pick nicer material?

Here's the link to the E46 interior:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.cooper2/New%20Car%20-%20M3%20pics/M3%20for%20sale%20pics/M3%20interior.JPG

You may not agree with me. But I find the Acura TL has better material and much better fit and finish than the 3 coupe. The only thing that I like about the 3 coupe's interior is the leather seats.

"On to the 3... correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that Bangle's first car design for BMW was the last generation BMW 3er."

This is correct. But I wonder how much input Bangle had on the E46's interior, as it was very much based on the E39's (which Bangle never touched).

I own a e46, and i like the interior which is of a very good quality and feels nice to touch. I do not like the interior of the e90 and it feels cheap to touch.

Thank you for sharing the same opinion.

"The Audi A4 and Lexus IS have - IMO - the nicest interiors in the class. Sit down in a luxury package IS 350 with cashmere leather and see for yourself how nice it is."

If the 3 coupe had an interior that is on par with the A4's, I would be driving the 3 coupe right now.

I totally agree with you on Audi's interiors. Audi never disappoints on this aspect. They always look good and feel good. When you are in it, it makes you feel that you are getting your money's worth.

No matter what people say about Bangle and Van Hooydonk trying to bring emotions to their designs, I'll stick by my comment that they don't know sh!t about designing interiors. BMW interiors look ugly, weird, and cheap. When I was sitting in there, I just didn't feel that I was sitting inside a $40K car.

I also agree with you on the IS350's interior. Right, it's not stunningly beautiful, and the design is actually a bit on the conservative side. But it just feels right when you're sitting in it. This is something the 3 series can't match.

I'm not so sure. I'm not a huge guy (5'10"), and the 3 has a perfect driving position, if that's what you mean as in "feels right" when you're sitting in it. The IS felt very cramped when I was in it last weekend. On the other hand, if you're talking about matierials, the build quality of the 3 feels better, as does the plastic, but the IS's leather is softer; depends how you want your leather. The 3's doesn't look as good, but without the navigation system, the IS interior looks surprisingly cheap!

TruenoAE86, you can complain about BMW's interior or exterior design all you want, but tha fact is you actually considered buying a BMW. What made you even consider buyin a BMW? Was it it's bedge? What, what, what?

In my opinion its all subjective. So if you say you're not biast...c'mon lets be honest, you hate BMW. Probably because your naighbor got tha 335i before you did, so that way you weren't first one on tha block to buy a 335, which clearly bothers you. Hopefully that wont leave you scarred for tha rest of your life cause of that. No offense.


G

"Besides that, I have nothing else to say except that I take offence to your blatant discriminitory motto towards my username."

I'm not against fanboys. I'm only against ignorant fanboys :)

Trueno-Ive just read about 10 different posts on a single article about your disapointment with the 3-series interior. You obviously have never sat in one,

If you dont like it, then dont buy it. Its as simple as that. Do you really need to go on and on about how much you dislike it ? We got it.

As a current E46 owner, with an E92 on the way, I disagree very strongly with your opinions. To me, the new 3-series has a a simple, extremely well built interior that looks modern, sporty and sophisticated.

Different strokes for different folks.

"You obviously have never sat in one"

Sorry buddy. I did, and it killed off the deal. I always love BMW's handling, but I've been put off by Bangle's designs, and I've stopped owning BMW ever since he took over. The 3 coupe is the first ever Bangle & Van Hooydonk design that finally looks like a BMW on the outside. The interior didn't look good on picture, but I was willing to go see it in person before I decide. I sat in there, and it just didn't feel like a $45K car.

I know it's different stroke for different folks. But there are many folks that share the same stroke. See this link for details.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?STOPCB

absolutely gorgeous car.

bangle is great designer because he DESIGNS. he doesn't repurpose every element from another car. he invents. he takes risks. sometimes he fails. but when he gets it right....WOW.

that's why he's one of the few automotive designers who's name is actually widely known.

"sometimes he fails. but when he gets it right....WOW."

The only time he got it right is the 3 coupe's exterior. Other times, he fails, and 7 out of 10 times, he fails miserably.... like the CS concept.

and yes, there are BMW styling cues on the Lexus GS and LS. But both of them look better than the 5 and the 7 IMO.

that's your opinion.
i think he's done a great job with a number of cars...3 series sedan, coupe and convertible; current 7 series, Z4, X5 to name a few.

and again, imitation is the greatest form of flattery. and his design cues are EVERYWHERE. just look at any lexus...hofmeister kink in every new sedan, rear end and rear quarter of the LS...

The GS and 5 is a toss-up... when the GS first came out, I thought it blew the 5's design away.

Then, I saw a comparison between the 550i and the GS450h, and it really made me appreciate BMW's design. The GS looks like a bloated, cheaper version of the E60, and looked completely unappealing next to it. I've gotten to admire the 5 Series's shape, and dislike the GS's.

And between the LS and 7, it depends on what you prefer. I like them both. The LS is elegant and unassuming, but the 7 Series has an athletic, expensive-looking presence that can't be ignored.

100% agree with what you have said!!! BMW's strong sales has a lot more to do with the BMW badge and the engineering. BMW could have sold even more cars without their pathetic designs. Need a real example? I was about to become a 3 coupe owner. Sat inside the car at the dealership, the cheap interior killed the deal right off. Didn't even bother with a test drive afterwards.

Thats an idiotic comment.
By your logic, why didnt BMW sell that much in the 1990s if people bought them just because of the badge? Ofcourse the badge plays a role, but that doesnt mean its the only factor. Reputation also plays a role, but BMW does make great cars. BTW I find nothing wrong with BMW interiors, they just do what they are meant to do; create a sporty luxury image. Also the interior feels solid.

Another thing, Bangle has nothing to do with the interior, which has its own designer. He also doesnt choose the materials used.

If BMW's designs were that ugly, why do I find EVERY single car maker copying their ideas? Look at the S class, CL (interior layout and interface). Lexus LS (tailights). Audi A8 (mmi). Even cheaper models are taking ideas from BMW!

I respect Bangle more than any other car designer. He changed the whole car industry, and BMW is more successful than ever.

Note: BMW has one of the best R&D in the world.

I know the subbie had them before but it didnt have the 'extra bit' on the side like the 5er. If you look at the 5er's side profile you will see a lage proportion of the light, but if you look at the subbie you wont. Thats what I meant.

in design, imitation is the greatest form of flattery.
you can find bangle design cues across the automotive industry.

fanboy:

lexus can't even legitimately be a part of this discussion. the LS is...and always has been...totally derivative design. that's why everyone is immediately comfortable with it....you've seen every element someplace before.

also, good design endures.

for examples, i still find the 1991 S-class or a late 80s 7-series beautiful. they're classics. i'd be embarrassed to drive a 1990 LS.

I stick by my comment that BMW's strong sales has a lot more to do with the BMW badge and the engineering. To clarify, the badge means reputation to me.

Although it sounds like he's splitting hairs, M53R's second comment is spot-on. I saw a 5 Series and an LS460 in a parking lot, two cars away from each other... because they both had that three-quarter-view taillight extension, I thought they were both 5 Series cars until I got closer.

It's obvious that Lexus had used BMW styling cues for their exteriors. But overall, Lexus has much better interiors than BMW.

I am a BMW owner. Specifically, I own a 2003 E46 M3. I've also owned a 97 E36 M3. So keep in mind that I am a BMW fan. Having said that, I do agree that this current stable of vehicles in BMW's fleet is far from what I would consider their best and most lasting design. I know people will disagree but the design on the E92 M3 is not my favorite. To me it is simply too boy-racer lacking the subtlety that was characteristic of the M cars of the past. But that is just my opinion and I will convey that to BMW by my hesitation to purchase the vehicle (though the carbon fiber roof and engine specs are almost enough for me to forgive anything). My point was simply this: It is pointless to debate whether BMW would sell more or less vehicles with "better" designs because it is speculative. The fact of the matter is the design is what it is and they certainly aren't hurting for sales. whether it be the badge identity and engineering that's generating sales or the design itself is irregardless. Bangle and Hooydonk simply won't listen to criticisms if the sales numbers are still acceptable.

"Bangle and Hooydonk simply won't listen to criticisms if the sales numbers are still acceptable."

Both of them shamelessly use sales figures to fend off their critics. But they should keep in mind that BMW driving dynamics has always been the biggest draw, and will always be the biggest draw. BMW driving dynamics is often enough for owners to forgive their hideous designs, thus the great sales figures.

I really understand what is being said here about the interiors. I am very much an interior person, and so the first thing I do before anything is deeply inhale. It gives me a good sense of the materials.

I had gone to a BMW dealership with a friend, and whilst he was speaking to a representative I decided to sit in a Z4 in the showroom there. I conducted my usual ritual by inhaling: it reeked of plastic. Within about 5 seconds I was sick to my stomach and had I not removed myself from the car I can guarantee that in another 5 seconds I would have vomited inside of it. A lot of plastic materials used inside of cars are actually toxic, and I bet that Z4 is no exception.

I’ve never had an experience like that were I was just so instantaneously sick. I also ended up with a headache.

The 7-series, which I was a bit more careful with after sitting down and regaining my composure and a stronger stomach, wasn’t near as bad. There was the smell of some plastic but also of leather.-and it wasn’t near as noxious.

I agree with what indoctrin8ted stated in part. I, for one, do at least find the exterior of the 6-series to be the most attractive one that BMW makes.

I'm also very much an interior person. Afterall, your spend much more time inside your car, not outside looking at your car.

Like you said, I also find the Z4 interior disgustingly cheap. It's not because of the plastic, it's because of the low grade plastic. Even the more affordable Mazda Miata has a more welcoming interior that feels richer.

"I’ve never had an experience like that were I was just so instantaneously sick. I also ended up with a headache."

I walked by the Z4, and I already had a sense of sickness.

About the 7, I agree that the material is much better. But the material doesn't save it from being fugly. Seriously, you just don't feel welcomed when you are sitting in there. Indeed, you feel intimidated. The Audi A8's interior is completely opposite. The A8 interior welcomes you in there, and makes you feel good and comfortable.

Bangle designed the last X5...he can do good things. And would he really do the interior material choices? Surely he "designs" the style, not the fine details.
And I love the Z4, but the interior could be better. I'd still buy one though. At the moment it's my "save up for" car.

I wonder how much input that Bangle had on the last X5 and the e46. He never showed his true "colours" until the 7 rolled out in 2002.

I never liked much the old shark nose designs, so I'm not sure BMWs new designs are a step backwards.

I'm beginning to like the new BMW designs that I originally didn't like more and more.

I love Bangle's designs, but to me this is ugly.

if i had a dream of this car... it would probably be my worst nightmare

Yes, a complete nightmare. If the next generation of BMWs are gonna be based on this car, I'll definitely look else where for a car.

I wonder what the Bangle and Van Hooydonk defenders would say if they worked for Lexus.