AutoBild compare Mercedes S600 vs. Lexus LS600hL

AutoBild compare Mercedes S600 vs. Lexus LS600hL
Some intresting points I got from the article:

"Mercedes S 600 belongs to the best one, what has to offer Germany in things luxury sedans. But at least on the paper the Lexus the toppt S-class in nearly all interests."

"Because the Benz already delegates disarming 830 Newtonmeters with 1900 routes to the rear axle, the Lexusdoes not have a chance also with the intermediate spurt. But it wins the consumption duel - anyhow if we believe the factory specifications. 9,5 to 14.3 litres are a clear announcement. And a very relative value, which is strongly dependent on the operating conditions. In the city, where Mercedes for S 600 proud 21.7 litres calculates, Lexus calls 11.3 litres. In practice one gets away even still more favorable after announcement of the energy flow display. The Lexus loves stop and go traffic, megaback-up and speed limit, because its large hour strikes in the partial load range and with each braking, which already before-finances the next traffic light start over the energy recovery."

"S 600 has the more sensitive steering element, the more aggressive brakes, the suppler suspension, the better handling."..."Completely madly against it the all-wheel drive which obtains that stability, functions, which creates spontaneously confidence with cat-same suppleness and slip resistance. Contrary to the short LS, which gives itself with its active Stabis somewhat more sportily, the long version hofiert primarily the rear passengers."

"The Lexus is full-plugged to over the roof with cleveren details and with innovative solutions, which address nearly all needs from the full equipment to environmental protection - and many satisfy. S 600 the better driver car may be and the more radiating status symbol, but the LS600h opens the more interesting long-term perspectives."

"Who drives much short distance - leaves itself or to drive -, to which should the Lexus into the closer choice pull. No, not only because of CO2 and Sprit save effect. But also to the satisfaction of the play impulse, which above all the rear passengers in the abundance may realize. As driving machine is not to be struck against it Mercedes. It goes around worlds better, is many more comfortable and makes all around more fun. The S-600-Budget blows up however (nearly) each framework."

I think, as IMO, they chose the Lexus as the better car, which is a first from the German I think!!


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LexusNumberOne4everLexusNumberOne4ever - 5/3/2007 11:48:57 AM
-5 Boost
When German magazines themselves prefer the LS, I think we could start ignoring all the Euro fans here.


EL34EL34 - 5/3/2007 11:59:02 AM
-2 Boost
Let's talk about Self-Park and the anti-snooze device in the Lexus.

With the Mercedes, we'll talk about the $20 million dollar homes the owners live in.


Ironman273Ironman273 - 5/5/2007 3:00:27 PM
0 Boost
The funny thing is, EL, if you look at JD Power's report on median income of different brands, Lexus buyers make more money than either BMW or Mercedes. Does this mean anything? No. But if you're going to give information at least give it correctly.


budfrogS4budfrogS4 - 5/3/2007 1:23:01 PM
+4 Boost
I was driving back from Charleston last weekend and we saw an LS, S class and 7 series. When we went by the S class and 7 series my buddy said "wow, that's really nice." When we passed the LS, I waited for a little bit. When he didn't say anything I asked "what do you think of that?"

The fact is I don't have to put his reply in order to say that the S class and 7 series is far superior.


EL34EL34 - 5/3/2007 12:00:50 PM
-1 Boost
Anyone else notice how desperate ToyLex was when naming the LS600 and they thought this park-mobile would be compared to the mighty S600?

lol


Agent63Agent63 - 5/3/2007 6:13:13 PM
+2 Boost
An enthusiast will not choose a full size luxo barge like the S-Class or the LS. They would be buying sports cars or GT cars. Now if you're saying they would pick a Lexus over a Mercedes you're wrong. Lexus has no 2 door coupe that any enthusiast would want. Please don't even mention the SC430. It's a piece of garbage recycled. Handling sucks and it looks like a turtle.


SupraNeverBackSupraNeverBack - 5/3/2007 12:48:00 PM
0 Boost
Good to know there are still some fair journalists in Germany.

"The Lexus is full-plugged to over the roof with cleveren details and with innovative solutions, which address nearly all needs from the full equipment to environmental protection - and many satisfy. S 600 the better driver car may be and the more radiating status symbol, but the LS600h opens the more interesting long-term perspectives."

Low tech, raw power, crude acceleration vs. high tech, refinement, comfort, efficiency.




SupraNeverBackSupraNeverBack - 5/3/2007 1:16:16 PM
+6 Boost
Those were German engineer's words:

"BMW considers turbos or superchargers to be low-tech shortcuts to power, horsepower solutions unfit for a flagship engine. Blowers, they say, add weight and complexity and reduce throttle response. Ask a BMW engineer if the V-12 might one day be turbocharged, and you'll get a scowl and a curt, "Nein!""
-cited from C&D.



LuxuriousLuxurious - 5/3/2007 1:28:21 PM
-5 Boost
I think comparing a 16-years old car, with a first time ever Hybrid system on a V8 luxury car, to a legend and prestigious car like the S600, and breaking out 50-50..is a win for Lexus especially coming from a german test!
P.S: Big time S-class and Cl lover myself (still got my 99 Cl600..and loving it)


themantheman - 5/3/2007 1:17:55 PM
-2 Boost
Mercedes can beat BMW and Audi with its legendry S class, it can most surely kill the Lexus..Just imagining the S600 in my drive way gets me excited..S...600...
What is Lexus?


EL34EL34 - 5/3/2007 1:38:42 PM
0 Boost
Why did Lexus decide on using flashlight bulbs for the headlights in the hybrid 600?

el34
Irvine Real Estate


JUGNUJUGNU - 5/3/2007 2:28:28 PM
+2 Boost
Guys(especially Lexus bashers)Honestly tell me.

Even after seeing the above pic (even the colors are same)if u think LS is bland and it's design is nothing compared to the S class then u need an eye surgery.

BTW these are the closest rivals i have ever seen.They r mighty close.

JUGNU


Will_Will_ - 5/3/2007 2:52:34 PM
+4 Boost
Lexus has apparently appeased the German gods with the LS600hL.


*shocked*


AMGC55AMGC55 - 5/3/2007 3:32:05 PM
-1 Boost
Short term - Lexus
Long Term/Resale - S600


DaveDave - 5/3/2007 3:38:09 PM
+5 Boost
The is like the highly anticipated battle for the heavyweight championship of the world. Mercedes Vs. Lexus(the Japanese Mercedes)

After all these years, Lexus finally decided to build something to battle the Mercedes S600 flagship. Lexus could've easily took a V-12 and stuffed it into the LS600 and equally battled Mercedes for power. But they wanted to be more creative and ended up producing the LS600 super hybrid. It just isn't fair to say the Mercedes is better because it beats the Lexus by 2 whole seconds on paper. Each car has their own good points with obviously the Mercedes having more power because of the full V-12. But the Lexus has more than adequate power and has many features that the Mercedes doesn't.
Mercedes has much more panache due to it's long time heritage. But surveys have shown that Lexus is slowly starting to become a household name in terms of prestige.


themantheman - 5/3/2007 5:25:01 PM
0 Boost
The S500 and S600 are amazing, but the S63 AMG and S65 are probably the best cars in the world..Yes, the best all round cars in the world..


TalliTalli - 5/3/2007 5:26:04 PM
-3 Boost
the merc would be sportier with such a big engine, wats the big deal in that??


Designer1Designer1 - 5/3/2007 5:31:02 PM
+3 Boost
lool, those are some funny comments here. But seriously guys, thanks to Lexus, the Germens are trying to make their cars more reliable. Thanks to Lexus the Germens are trying to introduce the hybrid technology into their models. So what ever bad thing is said about a Lexus, deep inside the German fan there is nothing but lots of anger seeing the Lexus advancing day after day over its Germen competitors.

I would take an LS over any S, 7, or A8, any day and any time.

And to be fair and compare power, the LS600h should be compared against the 760iL, since that car has no turbos like the S600 or A8. THEN come and talk about power. lol

You can easily put turbos into the LS600h, and I'm sure it will supersead the S600's power as well. No doubts!


RupertRupert - 5/3/2007 6:35:32 PM
-2 Boost
The A8 doesn't have turbos.
It's a 6 litre W12, in the Bentley Gt it is turbocharged to 550 hp or something ridiculous like that.


1stgenaristoTT1stgenaristoTT - 9/29/2007 1:09:35 AM
+1 Boost
well actually if you add the real numbers, which are 389hp from the engine and 221hp from the electric motor(which is REALLY 610 hp)...but lexus limits the motor to only 49hp and it adds up 438...duh


trd1trd1 - 5/3/2007 5:54:19 PM
+3 Boost
well MB can only make their cars faster by putting in turbos and superchargers, have you guys notice that?


Agent63Agent63 - 5/3/2007 6:16:36 PM
0 Boost
That's not the only way they can make their cars go faster. Each company has their own preference. Only way to make Toyota's ricers are to add turbo's or superchargers. But that's all after market. MB implements all their technology together to make one great engine.

Also Mercedes has no manual transmission. They make the fastest automatics.


Agent63Agent63 - 5/3/2007 6:18:36 PM
-1 Boost
I would still take a S600 over an LS600. Prestige, bragging rights, symbol of luxury and innovation, and an overall great product.

De boost me all you want but I do own an LS460 as well so my views aren't biased. I feel this Lexus has too much hype by their marketers. I also feel that some people are biased due to the money that makes them talk.


EL34EL34 - 5/3/2007 6:21:42 PM
-3 Boost
Let us compare the LS600 with the Aucra RL.

There, now doesn't that feel better?


Agent63Agent63 - 5/4/2007 4:01:49 AM
-1 Boost
Acura RL and the LS?? HAHAH NEVER at least not until Acura does something big and slap in a V8 and RWD. Too hard to jump upmarket like this. They will need some time.


LexusLexus - 5/3/2007 6:23:59 PM
+4 Boost
What you German loser fans has to says to this? here let me says for you; you lose again, Lexus win. The Lexus LS600hl beat the S-class, LOL :) yeah.

Lexus rule!..........


LexusLexus - 5/3/2007 6:24:43 PM
+4 Boost
Forgot to mention that the picture of the Lexus LS600hl is above, it beauty is just "Stunning".


indoctrin8edindoctrin8ed - 5/3/2007 7:36:33 PM
-1 Boost
Car enthusiasts do not "have a blast conserving gas", environmental enthusiasts do.

The Mercedes is a far better car than the Lexus.

I didn't drive an S600 but I drive a S55 AMG and it was impressive.

I drove the LS460 and it was boring. The steering wheel had absolutely zero feedback. It's an electric steering wheel. Gave me less sensation than a game of pong.

It's actually more fun to be a passenger in the LS than to drive it.


Will_Will_ - 5/3/2007 10:07:36 PM
+4 Boost
"It's actually more fun to be a passenger in the LS than to drive it."

Ding Ding Ding!

Congratulations, you've discovered the idea behind a full-size LUXURY sedan!!!



chewychewy - 5/3/2007 8:13:37 PM
0 Boost
6.3 seconds to 4.6 seconds is a fat difference.

Could have easily tested S450 and gotten equal acceleration figures. Or the V8 diesel that would get better fuel economy and equal accelertaion.


david999david999 - 5/3/2007 10:16:37 PM
+4 Boost
Both great cars. The LS600hL would probably be more reliable in the long run based on past history. That would sway me over the Mercedes.


bevisroybevisroy - 5/3/2007 11:13:58 PM
-2 Boost
I have noticed that the major car magazines: Motor Trend, Car and Driver and Road Test don’t get figures as low as Lexus gets.

With that said I went to the sites of these cars below and got the manufacturers specifications and they are:

BMW 750Li 5.8 seconds 0 – 60 Car and Driver 5.7
Lexus LS460L 5.4 seconds 0 – 60 Car and Driver 6.2
MBZ S550 5.4 seconds 0 – 60 Car and Driver 5.6

I also checked out the horse power rating of the LS430 and found that The 2004 LS430 was re-horse powered at 278 by Lexus in early 2006. And all LS430’s have 278 hp or 5.7% less than originally advertised.

When Mazda had the same problem it made a buyback offer to purchasers of 2001 Miata two-seaters because those produced 142 hp instead of the 155 hp, or 8.3% less, then Masda advertised. Mazda also had an hp discrepancy with the RX-8 and offered a buy back on those too.

I find it troubling that Lexus didn’t offer something to offset the incorrect hp.



1stgenaristoTT1stgenaristoTT - 9/29/2007 1:17:31 AM
+1 Boost
the change in power for the ls430 is because changes in s.a.e. ratings


bevisroybevisroy - 5/3/2007 11:17:51 PM
-3 Boost
Lexus ALWAYS understates their 0 - 60 times by at least .5 seconds. Here are the results of the 5 Top Luxury Cars in this test which was reported in the January Issue of Car and Driver. Please note these tests were all done on the same day at about the same time and at the same altitude. The results reflect the average of 3 runs and all cars are the 2007 vintage.

Mercedes S550 5.6, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.1 (Benz show 5.4 in their specs)
BMW 750iL 5.7, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.2
Jag XJ Super 6.0 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.5
Lexus LS460L 6.2 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.6
Audi A8 6.8 0 - 60 quarter mile 15.2

Note that Lexus, as usual, is more than the 5.4 the manufacturer CLAIMS to get by .8 seconds.

Also note the LS430 (prior model the LS460 replaced) was rated at 295 HP and was actually 278 when Lexus corrected their rating. And there were no refunds or apologies from the so-called "quality" car company. ABC - Always Be Careful what you buy from the Lexus people.....


LexusNumberOne4everLexusNumberOne4ever - 5/4/2007 11:21:19 AM
+2 Boost
How much exactly does MB pay you for this?


RupertRupert - 5/4/2007 9:45:21 AM
+1 Boost
The times quoted by European magazines, and by Lexus themselves for the European models, are 0-62, with a 2. It makes a difference, and the cars may be set up differently for lower CO2 emissions or better MPG in Europe.


LexusLexus - 5/4/2007 1:11:44 AM
+3 Boost
Didn't lower hp rating because they have use different method of hp measurement in Japan? Anyway the Lexus is far superior than the S-class S-class, BMW 7-Series and the Audi A8.

The BMW 7-Series is getting really old and outdated, they need a replacement, get the point? The Audi A8 is just to boring.........And the MB S-class need to change the it rearlight design, it look like stripe on tape they have on the rearlight. And the MB S-class is just to bloated and look clunky.

The Lexus LS460/600hl beauty and present is just absolutely stunning, period!............


MunichRobMunichRob - 5/4/2007 1:43:00 AM
-6 Boost
"Lexus" please tell me English isn't your first language...BTW if you think the A8 is so boring how do you find the LS at all interesting?


neutralneutral - 5/4/2007 2:05:30 AM
0 Boost
Both amazing cars, hands down. It comes down to personal preferance. My opinion:

Mercedes S-class....Screams Gangster


Agent63Agent63 - 5/4/2007 4:02:58 AM
0 Boost
Both cars are great though. S-Class screams class, prestige, luxury, good quality with fine wood. The LS does the same with Japanese flavoring but in a more understated way.

Does everyone agree on that? boost boost.

I own the S550 and LS 460 so I can comment from my views.


Will_Will_ - 5/4/2007 11:26:04 AM
+4 Boost
Why do you own both when in the past you've taken the strong position that Lexus will never have the prestige of Mercedes? Clearly prestige is not as big a deal to you as you made it seem?

Either that or you are saying this in a questionable attempt to appear as an 'unbiased' member.


Agent63Agent63 - 5/4/2007 11:59:13 AM
-3 Boost
I own a Lexus but it doesn't mean I think it has the same prestige level of a Mercedes. It does what it's designed for and that's why I got it after I test drove it. Plus my friend's a salesman at a Lexus dealership and he got me a great deal on it. The S550 I got first because I have always loved the S and the quality for Mercedes has come back with the new S and the CL, don't believe? take a look for yourself.

The LS is far more understated and when I'm in that mood I will drive the LS. When i'm wanting to be a little more flash I will go take out the S. Simple as that. I still think a Lexus lacks the prestige of a Benz even though they make great cars. It's all about the automotive heritage for me and MB has it all. Lexus makes luxury cars and their products satisfies most customers. People don't buy a Lexus for prestige they buy it for what it gives. Bang for buck it gives what the other higher priced models from Germany give.

It's not like people don't give you props for owning a Lexus they do but it's not the same as a Benz. Benz is a symbol for class and luxury. Lexus is the same but it doesn't appear to be as classy. Plain and simple. Black and white. Japanese luxury vs German luxury. All subjective which is better. I like the European luxury better. That's where it all started anyway.


JUGNUJUGNU - 5/4/2007 6:44:02 AM
+4 Boost
Do anyone really consider 0-60 times of such big full size Luxury Sedans.

OK Maybach's 0-60 is better than the RR Phantom (Maybach 57S is almost 2 seconds faster) therefore u mean (especially Xdrive and Chewy) Maybach is better than RR Phantom and considering this, one should buy Maybach over RR Phantom.

Same goes for S600 and LS600hL.Just because S600 is quick in 0-60,u mean it is better and one should buy it over LS600hL.

What about the Extra Luxury,quality,value,technology,Fuel economy and clean emissions which LS offers.

R they nothing.They should not be considered.

Actually u guys (Lexus bashers/haters) just don't want to give Lexus credit and can't digest the fact that Lexus has produced the rival to the mighty S600 (The flagship German Saloon).

IGNORANTS.

JUGNU


RupertRupert - 5/4/2007 9:43:42 AM
-5 Boost
No, but the point of a PERFORMANCE model like the S 600 or LS600h is that they are FAST. Otherwise get an S350.
As a performance flagship, the LS600h fails.


merc07merc07 - 5/4/2007 10:56:24 AM
-6 Boost
if the s600 beat the lexus in acceleration, comfort, perstige, wow factor.. OH YEA THE GAS MILAGE... how does the ls600h win. once again another dumb lexus post to get under the germans skin. this whole arguement should have been dead WHEN A LEXUS EXECUTIVE SAID THEY HAVE A SHORT SHOPPING LIST. AND WERE NOT ON IT. EVEN LEXUS EXECUTIVES KNOW THEIR CARS CAN'T COMPETE WITH THEIR GERMAN COUNTERPART. GIVE IT UP. case closed.


Will_Will_ - 5/4/2007 11:23:48 AM
+4 Boost
In retrospect, this thread, like all Lexus threads, allows you die-hard German fans to express your hatred, so shut up about Lexus threads and stick to your usual boring routine. What the Lexus exec said was that they were not on the shopping list WHICH IS WHY THEY CREATED THE LS600HL TO BE ON IT.

The LS has consistently been appraised for its level of comfort. It is UNMATCHED. The Germans like to inject some level of performance into their flagship luxury sedans, which is fine, but somewhere along the line they lose refinement by doing that. LS460 refinement is UNMATCHED. The LS600hL loses no refinement, but gains a more powerful hybrid engine to give bragging rights to owners. It may not be as fast as an S600, but it emits less, and gets better fuel economy. THIS IS THE NEW ERA OF HYBRID OWNERSHIP. 0-60 TIMES ARE NO LONGER THE DE FACTO ASPECT OF FLAGSHIP SEDANS THANKS TO THE LS600HL.


merc07merc07 - 5/4/2007 1:45:45 PM
-4 Boost
once again will your wrong. read just about any article write up on the s600 and most say it is the most refined car in the world. and if i read it correctly they said that the s600 was just as if not more comfortable than the lexus. thats a win win situation. i can race with the ferrari, lambo, and porsche. all the while being pampered in massage seats, in my theatre on wheels. you just can't do that in a lexus. it's slow. yea it's comfortable but if you have a once of sport in your bones you won't want that dead experience on wheels.


cdokecdoke - 5/4/2007 5:39:33 PM
+1 Boost
Ignore the former there, it isn't doing it anymore.


cdokecdoke - 5/4/2007 5:52:30 PM
+1 Boost
What a mess. See it isn't doing it anymore. See following.


MBDiehard8MBDiehard8 - 5/4/2007 1:32:22 PM
-6 Boost
Hello Everybody, I would like to first of all thank all of my MB brethrens, who have the sense to choose a Mercedes over a Japanese import anyday. Secondly I would like to point out that NO LEXUS has ever or will ever even come close to MB/BMW territory. Such cars as the S class and the 7 Series are in a class of their own and it is disrespectful to even attempt to compare them to cars as the lexus. The lexus compares to its Japanese rivals and wanna bees as the Acura RL and the Infiniti (I forgot what the hell it is called). Anyway, my point is, merely comparing the Lexus to the Mercedes in this report is shameful.

Afterall, since when has bloated camry ever compared to the lowest ranks of any Mercedes, let alone the king of all kings - the mighty S.



SupraNeverBackSupraNeverBack - 5/4/2007 1:34:15 PM
+7 Boost
S600: 10mpg vs. LS600h 20mpg
1,000gallons per 10k miles for S600
500gallons per 10k miles for 600h
10 years 100k miles, 5,000galons gas difference

CO2: 340g/km vs. 220g/km
3.4tons per 10k miles for S600
2.2tons per 10k miles for 600h

10 years 100k miles, 12 tons more CO2 emitted by S600 than 600h.








SupraNeverBackSupraNeverBack - 5/4/2007 2:30:04 PM
+7 Boost
See the differences?



cdokecdoke - 5/4/2007 5:38:27 PM
+2 Boost
Am I the only person who is having difficulty with the "reply to this comment" button? Anyway...

I must say, MBDiehard8, your moniker is exceptionally apposite.


MBDiehard8MBDiehard8 - 5/5/2007 8:28:07 AM
-1 Boost
good use of the thesaurus lol


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 5/6/2007 5:50:28 PM
0 Boost
But do you have any idea how apparent the power difference would be in daily driving? The thrust of the S600's 510hp V12 would simply blow the LS600hL's V8 away... and any other car in this class. It owns the road.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 5/6/2007 5:49:01 PM
+2 Boost
EL34 is a mentally handicapped German fanboy.


cdokecdoke - 5/4/2007 9:26:53 PM
+2 Boost
"save your stupid little off topic pointless remarks to yourselves. jeez. enough already. post on the topic, your oppinion... thats it"

So is that your opinion about this topic? Exclusively on this topic?


cdokecdoke - 5/5/2007 12:51:22 PM
+2 Boost
Then what better advice to follow than your own?


farabira1farabira1 - 5/5/2007 3:55:39 PM
+3 Boost
Seriously battle of the heavyweights. I hope both the lexus and the merc the best.


EL34EL34 - 5/6/2007 2:27:20 PM
-1 Boost
The other day I went into my office and in the parking lot I saw a brand new S550 and a brand new S600 and they were spectacular looking, but I did not see a single Lexus Cressida.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 5/6/2007 5:47:34 PM
+1 Boost
This was expected.

The same arguments, the same random EL34 comments, the same excuses, the same "reliability/quality" arguments...

Let me tell you all one thing: NOBODY WON. Some of the Lexus fanboys were crowing about how the LS beat the S-Class, but there was no winner coming out of this article.

How old is this getting? Why are we trying to reform each other? The German fans like German cars, the Lexus fans prefer Lexus models. Nobody is going to change that! No matter how many times Will or huu76 tell me about the reliability of the Lexus LS460, I would still take an S550 over it! No matter how convincing Agent63's argument is for the S600, JUGNU and Designer1 would rather have an LS600hL! There's nothing anybody can do, so why don't we shut up already?


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