Deport it/Import it: Honda Civic Si Coupe vs Honda Civic Type R

They both sort of suck... This design leaves a lot too be wanted. Its too bad since it is such a performance bargin. I'll stick w/ the Si sedan thank you very much.

Performance bargain? Overhere it's more expensive then a Golf GTI.

i think it looks good, much better than the si coupe which is one of the best civic designs yet.

It's 201 PS, 198 hp as we know it.

And I am so glad we get the Type R and not that ugly Si thing. And I way prefer the Type-R's interior. And all Civic hatches (including Type-R) are made in Britain, so that's good.

I disagree. Type-R is too radical to bode well here- Si is aggressive and intimidating, and I prefer it.

Type-R has torsion rear beam suspensions, Si has double-wishbone suspensions....the choice is clear, I like the better handling, better riding car: the Si.

Actually this should have been about the japanese type R and US Si.

America never gets the "nicer" version of cars because manufacturers think that American's don't want anything that's "too extreme". Long getting tired of this tradition seeing everyone but us get the nicer version of cars. I'd even go as far as to saying that even Ford's are nice overseas? Have you seen the Ford's that compete with Holden? OMG!? Pretty damn nice, right? And we get the POS vehicles!? Even the Bond car in Casino Royale that he drove up to the hotel is hot.

I'm not much of a fan of Civic, but the Type R is definitely nicer looking than what we have. All of our cars always get the "family" treatment and are seriously toned down in style by the time they hit our shores, as if to say American's are boring people and we want every vehicle to be a freaking family vehicle.

I'll take the Si. Leave the Type-R for the Europeans, thanks.

Grow up. So you think it's a 'POS' because you don't like the way it looks?

I don't like the way the Lexus GS looks, would you mind if I called that a POS too?

What an idiot.

Damn broken 'reply' button!

Post meant for LexusAdmirer

Umm if your consider Motor Trend to be your source of all info, then you should feel good.

Others, especially those who are actually into club racing would beg to disagree. Type R, is not about stupid power. Its about absolute balance, Track cars, typically face a lot of G's , so they need to be extra reinforced, Their trannies need to be stronger and their engines designed to take a lot more abuse.
Everything from cooling, brakes to harness points is what costs money.
Honda Type R's are factory racers that give you a great platform to base a track car on. The fact that they tack on all the reinforcements and barely gain weight is what makes them special . If you race, you know exactly why.

Mazda speed 3, is a great street car. But on sustained track use, it will be eaten alive by a lighter tighter turning car.

So I'm a 'dumbass' because I questioned your reasoning?

How intelligent of you.

LexusAdmirer. - here is
point 1: Do you have an Anal/Scatology fixation ? Everything you write is either "POS" or "talking out of your ass".

point 2: I did read the article, but apparantly its seems you didnt .
So i put ina quote from it to help you understand.

"Compared with the Civic, the Mazdaspeed3 cranks everything up one noticeable notch. There's added grip for better turn-in, tighter chassis control, lots more power-and, yes, unwelcome torque steer. Efforts to mask the latter stifle steering-feel, which robs some of the joy of handling, though the helm remains nicely weighted and linear in its response. Drivers felt well bolted into the seat, too, awarding the Mazda fourth place in ergonomics. All reported being pleasantly surprised and entertained on these roads, but seven cars delivered more joy.Our Honda S2000 divided voters. Some praised its steering and chassis responses as accurate and precise, with little lost motion and superb overall control at the limits. Another camp-in which the campers all stand well over six feet tall-felt a lack of crispness and an artificial heft in the controls that robbed them of confidence in the car's limited handling capabilities. Clearly, fitting comfortably into its tidy cockpit is essential for deriving full pleasure from an S2000."

As you can see from the above, the Si fell short due to the nature of its setup which would be addressed by the R. As for s2k bieng a "POS" ? Please note that the 235hp s2k smacked the 265hp Mazda3 mapdaspeed.

Well enough for me here, its seems you have to do your homework more thoroughly before you try to diss someone .. You just come out looking like a Prat!!

Mazda3 is a solid performer for the money. I'd take it over a Honda anyday. Honda's have never been much of a drivers car. Nuff said.

why not offer both on both sides? as far hot-hatches go, vw gti dsg suits me well. the mazda needs awd to handle all that power, the honda has too much redline for everyday use (like the s2000), sentra is ugly, and mini is just too small, too cute, and too girly (???).

^this is for us hot-hatches, i know across the pond there are some more interesting hatches that we can only drool about.

I don't even like the Type-R. I just think your reasoning isn't justified.

And rear suspension design isn't everything! The RenaultSport Megane 230 has a rear torsion beam and according to performance car specialist magazine EVO, is the best handling and most satisfying hot hatch you can buy.

Your arguement doesn't hold much water I'm afraid.

Actually they have- they have driven just about every hot hatch you can buy.

It didn't trump the Renault.

EVO said:

"Stability at high speeds is exemplary, too. As it is on fast country roads. The chassis has bags of grip, fine body control and, amazingly, hardly any torque-steer. Trouble is, travelling quickly in the 3 MPS just isn't much fun. At least, not by the standards of a Golf GTI or Focus ST. And especially not by the standards of the latest Renaultsport Megane competing in this year's eCOTY.
The steering, while reasonably direct and well weighted, feels numb and is very short on detail feedback, the engine note is persistently dull and occasionally unpleasant, and although grip and body control are good, the chassis' act as a whole is distinctly two dimensional, the mild understeering balance being only minutely adjustable with the throttle. Ride comfort is rather fidgety, too.
All of which only confirms something we've known for a long time: speed alone isn't enough. Mazda can give itself a pat on the back for making a 256bhp front-drive hatch manageable, but you don't get the better of cars like the Focus St and Megane 230 with power alone."

Top Gear picked the Civic over all others in a recent hot hatch test - they said they didn't like the SEAT Leon, and that the Renault Megane R26 was too extreme, but handled well.
And British Magazines would probably pick Japanese over French, just the Renault is better. No bias.

So the 'biased' argument rears its ugly head.

No, EVO isn't biased toward European cars. Not in the slightest.

However in a recent hot-hatch shoot out on the road and track, the Mazda didn't even feature because it wasn't considered good enough- it only managed three out of five stars in an earlier drive.

The Renault trumped that test, beating the Golf GTI and new Civic Type-R.

The Renault was five seconds faster round the track than the Civic, by the way.

Being a family guy I wouldn't consider this without 4 doors. I have the 2007 civic EX with the 140HP motor! It could be a little sportier!

Folks you can only push so much HP( no more than 200hp) to the front wheels before you can't keep it in the dang lane under full throttle. I drove a 4dr Si earlier this year and was impressed as far as an economy car goes. It's by no means a WRX or GTi.

rdriver04 I agree with all you say! Check out consumer reports on slalum speed! The Civic ex gets the same speed in the slalum as the WRX STI at 54mph! Of course 0-60 isn't even close. I would love to see the civic in a 4 door wagon! That would sell! I would also like to see a Civie ex version with the same wimpy fuel efficient engine but way sportier like the SI with tinted glass with a rear spoiler.It handles great as is but it just looks like grandmas car stock.

Yes, import it. Also import the 4-door hatchback, that thing is pretty unique and much more practical.

>>>>> the POS Acura RL which is a rebadged Japanese >>>Honda Legend. Sales of the GS versus the RL support >>this claim. Get a clue before you post.

By the way, Lexus is also a Toyota :-)

People seam to forget that the Hondas are N/A and they
are competing with high pressure trubo hatches.. the Mazda (which BTW does not look like a sports car) is running 15.6 pounds of boost.

I also wonder how long you can drive the Mazda 3 turbo hard? well remains to be seen as they are still new... The type R and also the SiR engines can be hammered for a very long time.

Ok so here is the whole deal believe me or not but I have factual info. The Si is a wishbone rear suspention that DOSE handel better than any other torsion bar system out there.It allows the car to keep a more balance composure through the turns without major understeering through hard cornering. Where as the Type R with the torsion bar suspension pushes the front end through the corner like a wheel barroll. The Si in the states, yes is a little bit the common look where as the Type R has so more modern styling. Which is can lead you to believe a better car to those who dont know the better. But put them on the track together and the diffrence shows without a doubt. The Si's suspention for the first time in history of the Si or Type R outperforms the Type R! Now as for the Mazda 3 Speed or any other hatchback for that matter. How many pounds of boost are we talking? It is quite essentially like comparing apples to oarnges. They are NOT the same car. Yes same sub-compact level but totally different powertrain. Boost the Honda and your on the same level. Although the Honda with its high compression ratio couldnt pressureize the cylinders with more than 6 to 9 psi. It would prove to be a formittable contender with any of the "hot hatches".

Back to the Type R. Yes it is setup to become a club racer with ease! There is no Doubt about that. Why Honda decided to make a torsion suspention in the rear of the vehicle is beyond my comprihension! Probally best explained through a financial standard but for enthusiast such as all of that is reading this and myself included. It is a lame excuse to make the Type R a flop! Not saying it wont sell. It will sell just because there are people that want it to be a pompus prick. Consider what you want when your looking to buy one. if your a club racer with a budget. Get the Type R and the setup will be quick and cost effective. I personally cant be sold the Type R when undoubtly it is the under dog in comparrion to the SI.