SOUND OFF: Why Does Toyota Tick People Off?

I agree with the writers comments that (some) people would rather hate than congratulate. Competititive spirit is good but being blind or unwilling to objectively see the success of others is not. The latest Autospies posting of the JD Powers results is a great example: Mercedes receives recognition for showing the most improvement in the history of the survey and some write that the survey was flawed or that it's all a fluke. We are discussing an enthusiasts topic (automobiles), no wonder it's challenging to tackle 'real world' issues!

Toyota doesn't tick people off. It's just a budget brand that is not appealing to car enthusiast. Nothing is really exciting in the toyota line up. But they are a good marketing company. People talk about how the interior of a Camry is so great, I don't see it. The Honda Accord is better executed inside. It feels more solid. As far as Lexus compared to the European brands, it's like comparing Coach and Louis Vuitton. Coach is not bad but it's not great. If you can afford a Louis Vuitton that's what you buy. The S-Class, BMW 7 etc... are a step ahead of the LS. The IS is a 3 wanna be, and the rest of the Lexus lineup is nothing special.

"...it's like comparing Coach and Louis Vuitton..."

Good point, but I don't necessarly agree with all of it. It all just depends on what you're looking for. If you want comfort, technology, luxury, and being pampered, then the Lexus is the Louis Vuitton. If you want more of a "drivers" luxury car, then the S and 7 is the Louis Vuitton.

"If you want comfort, technology, luxury, and being pampered, then the Lexus is the Louis Vuitton"

Far from it. You need to take a closer look at the S class. Mercedes has always been inovative when it comes to technology. Mercedes first came out with key less go. Lexus adopted it 6 years later and tried to make it sound like it was new in its comercials. And that's just one example. The Mercedes S class is the benchmark the Lexus LS tries to match. The LS is a cheaper alternative to the S class.If you want comfort, technology, luxury, and being pampered, then the S-class is the Louis Vuitton.

Mercedes is Louis Vuitton?

And all this time people have said Lexus is the brand for women. The truth has come out!

I think you hit the nail on the head. Toyota makes great cars-if you want a transportation appliance.

If you want driving excitement, look elsewhere.

I AGREE WITH YOU TOYOTA AND LEXUS LOOKS LIKE GRANDMA CARS!!!!

I AM GOING TO START THIS WITH I AM A AMERICAN AND I AM GOING TO GIVE THE AMERICAN AUTOMAKERS A CHANCE. I also LOVE MY CADILLAC'S. Have you looked or driven any of the new American cars today??? I have owned I own a Cadillac STS which has style and quality more so than any lexus on the rode today and they look so much better all of the GM line up when I do take it in the Cadillac dealer to get the oil change they give me a car to drive and Great Customer service oh and by the way one of my fiends owns a lexus they took their lexus in for a oil change and the lexus dealer charged them 145. for a oil change, which when I go to Cadillac it is only 29.00 I also traded in my Esclade with 60,000 miles never once did I have a problem with it infact I have owned 6 cadillacs in the past 7 years and none of them ever had to go into the dealer for any problems except for oil changes, My Mother owned a Buick Lesaber that she gave to her Grand daughter to drive in College well the car is still going it is like the everedy battery it keeps going and going the Buick has over 225,000 miles on it now. I do think that Lexus are boring and all they are are a more expencesive toyota you can not even tell them apart. GM did that in the 80's and sales droped however why can toyota and lexus get by the same thing GM did however you could still tell the difference between a Buick and Cadillac well you can not tell the difference between the lexus and the toyota and they get by with it. The American people really need to look at American cars I have always had great luck with my GM cars never any problems with them. I also know that it effects our economy with how many Japenesse cars are sold here and again You being a American need to at least look at some of the Americans Autos today, I believe that you will change your mind about your Toyota or your Lexus. I also want to add, the forein Automakers do not recall autos like the americans do I learned this 1st hand when my now ex wife owned a BMW 525I and it had a little over 2000 miles on it and one of the computer chips they contol the suspension failed well the dealer told me that it would be 2 weeks for the chip to be in because it was on backorder they also said that the reason it was on back order was because they do not recall cars like the American Automakers do because they want to keep their resale value up which is a joke because my ex wife before that owned a 325 and that she tried to trade it in they where only going to give her 15,000 for it well it was a 45,000 car brand new and it 2years old and it only had 21,000 miles on it when she try to trade it in, so not very good resale, I traded My Cadillac CTS 2003 in for my Esclade which my CTS had 70,000 miles on it and they gave me 18,000 for it on my trade so American cars do hold their Value even if they recall cars which I believe is better because they do not make me wait for a part they do not have because they are on back order. The Toyota and the Lexus

I'm not ticked off by Toyota, they make great cars, but I'm not a huge fan of their styling.

Same here. And Lexus as well. It doesn't help that their fanboys, along with BMW fanboys, are some of the worst car "fans" out there.

I agree with that. I will add that the "flashes" of brilliant styling is taken directly off the competition. There are not too many things they originate, but what they do is top notch.

Not one problem with my brothers 05 Avalon. His vehicle has 56K on it and it still feels just as solid as the day he bought it. I can honestly say that I cant say that about my 300C though (same year 46K). IN MY OPINION, I dont think anyone can beat American design but quality??? SUCKS...

Eh, it's not the cars that I dislike (some of them are very good), it's the trolls on this website.

Just look at people like Huu76, LexusAdmirer or that total dumbass Toyotaman. Idiots, all of them.

depending on your definition of trolls, the fact that the same people post over and over again would mean we all are trolls. or enthusiasts of this site...depends on your definition.

Gsh23,

People like Huu76 or LexusAdmirer and especially Toyotaman live in a dreamworld. Huu76 is known to turn and twist facts to suit him when he's "defending" Toyota/Lexus. Toyotaman and LexusAdmirer have nothing positive or constructive to say. They're here to piss people off, or they're really that stupid.

yeah there are no BMW/Audi/Merc trolls on this website.

And you know that half of the Lexus posters are not real fans, but are putting out outrageous statements to throw a bad light on the rest of us. For some reson, real Lexus fans dont seem to have taken up that strategy. Maybe I'll assume an another identity, say BMWRULESTHEUNIVERSE, and start doing the same thing.

Why does Toyota tick people off?

They don't. Based on current sales figures (and their ever growing popularity, it's obvious the majority want their products.

People that posts on blogs such as this that are critical of Toyota are another matter. I divide this group into two categories.

The first group basically complain about the lack of styling and/or performance which to some degree is justified. The reason why Toyota got to be this big was that they decided to build vehicles that appeal to the masses rather than a specific group. This decision definitely dictated the styling direction they took, which to some enthusiasts wasn't to their tastes.

The second group are simply haters, which I think is a very small minority. These are ones that relish every single bit of negative publicity they can dig out about Toyota. There's just no way of winning the hearts and minds of these inbred retards because they're pretty much set in their trailer-trash way of life. Come to think of it, having these losers not drive Toyotas is basically a badge of honor for the company. I personally wouldn't want these bigblock-driving turds driving my vehicle.

There aren't too many people who wouldn't want to own atleast one Toyota/Lexus. You'd be lyin to yourself if u said no. If Toyota truly was selling a lesser product the market would of already turned its back on them. But Toyota makes a great product. Sure it's got problems but not as many as most other makes. And that's why Toyotas/Lexus sell. It's obvious folks. Your marketing can only take you so far before your product must speak for itself.......look at Saturn for example.

I AM GOING TO START THIS WITH I AM A AMERICAN AND I AM GOING TO GIVE THE AMERICAN AUTOMAKERS A CHANCE. I also LOVE MY CADILLAC'S and maybe I do not want you driving my brand with the comments you have made about other people you do not even know they are just expressing their opinion just like you are so does that make you white trash???. Have you looked or driven any of the new American cars today??? I have owned I own a Cadillac STS which has style and quality more so than any lexus on the rode today and they look so much better all of the GM line up when I do take it in the Cadillac dealer to get the oil change they give me a car to drive and Great Customer service oh and by the way one of my fiends owns a lexus they took their lexus in for a oil change and the lexus dealer charged them 145. for a oil change, which when I go to Cadillac it is only 29.00 I also traded in my Esclade with 60,000 miles never once did I have a problem with it infact I have owned 6 cadillacs in the past 7 years and none of them ever had to go into the dealer for any problems except for oil changes, My Mother owned a Buick Lesaber that she gave to her Grand daughter to drive in College well the car is still going it is like the everedy battery it keeps going and going the Buick has over 225,000 miles on it now. I do think that Lexus are boring and all they are are a more expencesive toyota you can not even tell them apart. GM did that in the 80's and sales droped however why can toyota and lexus get by the same thing GM did however you could still tell the difference between a Buick and Cadillac well you can not tell the difference between the lexus and the toyota and they get by with it. The American people really need to look at American cars I have always had great luck with my GM cars never any problems with them. I also know that it effects our economy with how many Japenesse cars are sold here and again You being a American need to at least look at some of the Americans Autos today, I believe that you will change your mind about your Toyota or your Lexus. I also want to add, the forein Automakers do not recall autos like the americans do I learned this 1st hand when my now ex wife owned a BMW 525I and it had a little over 2000 miles on it and one of the computer chips they contol the suspension failed well the dealer told me that it would be 2 weeks for the chip to be in because it was on backorder they also said that the reason it was on back order was because they do not recall cars like the American Automakers do because they want to keep their resale value up which is a joke because my ex wife before that owned a 325 and that she tried to trade it in they where only going to give her 15,000 for it well it was a 45,000 car brand new and it 2years old and it only had 21,000 miles on it when she try to trade it in, so not very good resale, I traded My Cadillac CTS 2003 in for my Esclade which my CTS had 70,000 miles on it and they gave me 18,000 for it on my t

The million-dollar question...

...answered with seemingly intelligent responses!

One thing that people, and even I need to realize is that the internet blog/forum communities do not always reflect what the average person does out in the "real world." I have always noticed a strong distaste for Toyota online in all these little communities. People flock to these online communities to vent their dislikes because they have already figured out that the general population in the physical world really does not care about Toyota being perceived as "better" than anyone.

How do we know the majority of people do not care? Because Toyota is still selling lots (I mean lots) of cars. There will always be those who are ticked off at anything successful, like those who complain about celebrity practices/behavior because they're not rich, or those that simply like having something not "mainstream." And then of course there are those that talk a big game here, but later reluctantly admit they already have, or currently own a product of, said successful brand (both types as well as several others I can't seem to figure out, exist here.)

I can't think of a conclusion, so I'll end it here.

The million-dollar question...

...answered with seemingly intelligent responses!

One thing that people, and even I need to realize is that the internet blog/forum communities do not always reflect what the average person does out in the "real world." I have always noticed a strong distaste for Toyota online in all these little communities. People flock to these online communities to vent their dislikes because they have already figured out that the general population in the physical world really does not care about Toyota being perceived as "better" than anyone.

How do we know the majority of people do not care? Because Toyota is still selling lots (I mean lots) of cars. There will always be those who are ticked off at anything successful, like those who complain about celebrity practices/behavior because they're not rich, or those that simply like having something not "mainstream." And then of course there are those that talk a big game here, but later reluctantly admit they already have, or currently own a product of, said successful brand (both types as well as several others I can't seem to figure out, exist here.)

I can't think of a conclusion, so I'll end it here.

Ooops. Double the reading, double the fun!

Toyota is like popular dinner house, a nice meal, good price, clean well lighted, good service, nothing outstanding but a dependable place to bring family and friends. Of course there will be the naysayers who don't like a thing about it because it is always crowded and makes money that is human nature.
GM in its heyday was like that remember, it is unAmerican not to have at least owned or bought a GM product it was the giant of its time. Of course like the dinner house i mention, GM served lousy food and service so nobody went back and the repeat cutomer drove them from retainning #1. Toyota is a play it safe company, for some they just can't understand the appeal, most people in America are apple pie and ice cream, they are not chance takers and play it safe, Toyota is perfect for them, i don't want to be notice crowd, i want a good car and good service.
As a x car man i can tell you i have never owned their product, i guess i just don't like to contribute anymore money to their bottom line besides, i like German cars for there driving habits and appeal, Infiniti when i want luxury and reliablity. Toyota has done a great job, they pushed hard and now really don't want a backlash as being top dog so they lay low, but most people want what they produce, and that is fine, as long as they contiue on their quest to give a good meal at a fair price with good service, i see then retainning the top spot no problem,they just won't win me over, i'm a immediate look at me and what i drive guy, and for Toyota they couldn't care less about me as a customer?

I love apple pie and ice cream, but I still take chances! LOL.

My experiences with Toyota products have not been pleasurable. My 4Runner needed its head gasket replaced so many times I lost count not to mention numerous other serious problems.

I just think there is a perception of what toyota cars are (which is very well marketed by toyota) and then there is the reality.

The reality being a car (in most cases) which does nothing good but also nothing bad. This based on my experiences and research.

I like to buy cars that are all good.

So when someone tells me toyota produces a great car I am inclined to believe that this is their perception (which is engineered by toyota's marketing) and not a reality.

It was repaired under warranty twice and the second time they plained the head to make sure it wouldn't happen again. Once it was out of warranty I had to pay for out of my pocket...

This and all the data I see about sludge, hesitation, cam shafts breaking, head gaskets, transmissions breaking, VVT units failing, etc.

give me no faith in toyota

My friend has had a 4 runner for more than 8 years, and he never had any problem with the head gasket.

I agree. Lexus and Toyota are the same no diffence but price how crazy is that when GM made similer cars in the 80's their sales slip infact Oldsmobile is no longer because of that, is that going to happen to Lexus and Toyota probable not however it should because you can not tell them apart at all except for the name plate so my question is how are their sales still up????? You Lexus Buyers are getting dupped. The thing that I hate about Lexus and Toyota buyers is they can have a bad car or cars and they will egnore it and not even look at other auto manufactures and will not look at a American car that to me is ignorant and blind. Give your country's Business a chance.
Thank you for your comment.

The head gasket issue is a well known issue for the 4Runner. Just do your research. The latest 4runner engines do not have this issue I believe, but they do have other issues.

it would be interesting to get a poll of what people on this website actually drive. And i mean what they really drive, not what they wish they drove.
I drive a subaru legacy. perfct for me in the northeast. Affordable and all-wheel-drive. I would drive an Audi if i could but i cant afford one right now.
Cant argue the toyota quality but they do nothing for me and i have got to say they do agrivate me a bit. Just so damn boring. Give me a honda any day over a toyota.

My family has owned 4 Legacys and loved everyone of them. Subaru makes a great car that's reliable, practical and very safe. Congrats on your ride.

If you can afford a Legacy, you can afford to lease an A4 2.0T quattro. I'd give it a look.

two accords and one CRV were oh so brilliant with us. i plan to get a used legacy :D

ATRIP
I DRIVE A CADILLAC STS 2005 AND I JUST ORDERED THE NEW 2008 CADILLAC CTS THAT IS COMING OUT HERE IN A MONTH OR SO. WHAT A CAR.

A lot of it is the "go against the winner" mentality.

A lot of it is also the prescribed culture that a German automobile is automatically endowed with expert craftmanship and is a "driver's car."

For a lot of people it is far easier to go with the flow and subscribe to the popular trends of brand awareness than to go with there own beliefs on a car by car basis.

Toyota/Lexus success in tangible things such as quality awards have been much-publicized and a regular occurance for more than a decade. Some people are bothered by that.

The majority of negative vibes at autospies.com comes from some fans(of both German and Japanese variety) being incapable of discussing positive attributes of their favorite brand without knocking another one.

Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, and BMW all make great cars but they are all not designed to appeal to everyone. Thankfully, not everyone likes the exact same things.

A true automotive enthusiast is passionate about the cars that they themselves like, not what others happen to like.

Or maybe you know something we don't about cars.

formula1:

"You are not an enthusiast because you are choosing the car without outside influences, you are an enthusiast because you are able to decide which is the best car in that category."

This is not the definition of an "enthusiast" at all. You are a simple, narrow-minded simpleton, with no real perspective of ALL types of cars.

Enthusiast defined: "One who is filled with enthusiasm; one who is ardently absorbed in an interest or pursuit"

I am filled with enthusiasm for Lexus and Aston Martin among other brands. I am ardently absorbed in the interest of automobiles.

One classic move that Toyota haters use is try to redefine the definition of "enthusiast." They're always wrong.

Formula 1,

I consider myself an automotive enthusiast, and as such, I know that there is no right choice for everyone.

Is someone who chooses a Lamborghini over a Ferrari not an enthusiast? Someone who has $300,000 to spend on a car has several choices, not one as you suggest.

People that think a BMW 3 series is far better than a Lexus IS are either stupid or unaware. Testing has proven their numbers to be quite comperable. Someone who chooses the IS is not less of an automotive enthusiast.

I'd really like someone such as yourself to tell the designers and engineers of cars like the Nissan GT-R, Acura NSX, and the Lexus LF-A or even the Mazda Miata that they aren't enthusiasts simply because they work for an Asian manufacturer.

That's right answer, which is why they revert to phrases like "magic feel" and "Germanesque" to make up for not having any tangible leads as to what makes the 3-Series so magnificent and the IS a "pos."

I hate these "enthusiast" definition races. If you know more than the badge on a car's hood, I'd consider you to be a smart car buyer; if you know such things as engine size, corporate links, and sales numbers and like/dislike different brands, you're pretty much an enthusiast.

If I had gotten, say, an SC430, I wouldn't be any less of an enthusiast. If it was a better car, I would've considered it, and even if I had bought the current model, maybe I wanted something other than performance in my car. There are car enthusiasts who just enjoy owning luxury cars, such as my friend with an LS460. He'll probably get an S550 for his next car, but he just loves driving big sedans.

I Love my Cadiallac and accully all of them I have had 6 Cadillacs in the past 7 years All of them have been Great.

Toyota makes great A to B appliances and that is it, no more no less. People who buy Toyotas don't care about anything but getting to their destination. It's not how fast, how fun or how stylish it is in the process. It's just get me there. Average cars for average people.

HeavyChevy, I think you hit it right on the head....Toyota has become a plain jane automaker as far as design goes. I mean they all look the same..like a used bar of soap goin down the road. Don't get me wrong I have my preferred manufacturer, but I appreciate cars with uniqueness. Toyota used to have them, namely the Supra...Loved that car!! But lately they have done nothing to livin up their line. The big three always have something out there that is unique and eye-catching. Granted as I have read it caters to certain groups rather than the masses, but that it what I appreciate. As of now Toyota has nothing that appeals to me at all. I think some of their cars are down right ugly...but that is my opinion. Doesn't mean they don't make a mechanically good car. All depends on your experience with the cras you have driven...let's trying going off of that instead of the marketing your fed on TV....

FYI... I drive a 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 gas hog but I love it...Have yet to have any problems but you never know. I have also owned a Toyota Celica, Dodge Dart, Jeep Liberty, Chevy Nova, Chevy Camaro, and a POS Plymouth Sundance.....that's my experience thus far.

Listen everyone,

Lexus and Toyota are not the choice for auto enthusiasts.

I know this because "forumula 1" said so.

Unless you enjoy thinking for yourself, please remember this.

What about people who buy Chevy's? Or even worse Pontiac. Who thinks Pontiac still builds excitement...raise your hand. LAMO

What ticks me off is that Toyota dealers think they can sell you a vehicle at close to full MSRP. I don't like leaving money on the table.

People, I really do love cars any car! It seems that you are all forgetting that cars are inanimate objects and they have no soul, no matter what the advertisers want you to believe and yet you folks get pissed over someone elses opinion? Any true enthusiast would take the middle of the road. I mean it's like someone just insulted your wife or girlfriend. I have an opinion, but it's just not yours. I am so glad we don't agree!

I don't hate Toyota, I just think there are better cars for me out there.
Their European line-up is especially unexciting.
I would have a Clio or Polo over a Yaris, a Golf, Focus, Megane, Leon or Qashqai over an Auris, a Passat, 407, Mondeo, or any of the German small saloons over an Avensis, a Galaxy over a Previa and an X3 or Cr-V over a Rav-4.

Meh I don't mind the SUV (honestly I wouldn't chose any of them - I'd get a used X5/ML)

formula1:

"And idiot... if I think a car is the best in a category that means is the best for you too, you just don't know it."

I'm officially convinced this is a fake German fan.

Not for you, never.

LOL. Wow. formula1, you know nothing.

I hate Toyota because the only product I had from them was a POS and their dealership network did squat about it but extort unthinkable amount of money from the gullible me. I hate Toyota because at least one of their dealerships is racist. I hate Toyota because they are bean counters and penny pinchers. I hate Toyota because their cars are ugly and handle like crap. I hate Toyota because Toyota owners are idiots (me included). I hate Toyota because I am a hateful person and need no reason to be pissed.

I get so infuriated by the appliance or vanilla label. Let's see....

1. The Camry 268hp engine is at the head of its class, where Toyotas have often been. How long did it take the Accord and Altima to offer V-6s at all? The same engine also powers the RAV, any better engines in that class??? Then there was the DOHC 16 valve in '85. Who else was doing that back then? The 200 hp 2.0L (100hp per litre for anyone counting) from the Celica GTS. The twin turbo 320hp Supra engine (how much hp does that BMW have now?). And now the 381hp 5.7. Toyota knows engines.
2. A leader in hybrid technology. I dont care if you personally like it or not. Its here, everyone is jumping on it. Toyota was first, they are still best, and they are working on the next gen.
3. Style. Not in every vehicle. But what about some of their standouts....Supra, MR2, Previa. Most of the Toyotas are styles handsomely and designed to wear well for years. A 92 Camry still looks good. Very few are Aztek ugly (like perhaps the Solara).
4. Interiors are world class, and if you dont believe that, it's because of bias. The materials are quality, the ergonomics have always been ahead of the curve, and the desigenrs often seem to spend more time on the inside than the outside. Reviewers and quality surveys have always had good things to say about Toyota interiors (except maybe the Tundra.)
5. Scion. 'nuff said.

There are many other reasons I love Toyota. I havent even mentioned Lexus. But I think these few points contradict some the "appliance" criticisms. But I suppose some people just cant be convinced.

They are just "pissed" by Toyota's success. ^0^

marc, I agree with most of what you said, but part of it is a little off:

How is the 381hp 5.7L good? That's approx. 67hp/liter. Audi and BMW get more power out of a 4.2L and 4.0L, respectively. I'm sure the Tundra's engine is smooth and fast, but I wish it didn't guzzle gas like it does.

Also, Honda was first with hybrids, I believe.

toyota is good, but from experience we had our best with 2 accords. i think the camry and corolla is a little dated but ok. but land cruisers are just the best SUVS out there. gr8 cars.

S4, the 5.7 is a truck engine, so you cant really compare it to car engines, and it is getting better real world mpg than the Chevy and GMC in many tests. Honda was first to market their hybrid in the US, but Toyota had it first (in Japan).

I have had 6 CADILLAC'S I LOVE THEM THEY HAVE STYLE AND ATTITUDE NOT BORING LIKE TOYOTA WITH HEAD GASGET PROBLEMS. I AM A AMERICAN CAR BUYER I WOULD NEVER OWN A RICE BURNER, I HAVE KNOWN TO MANY PEOPLE WITH PROBLEMS WITH THEIR LEXUS AND ALSO THEIR TOYOTAS THEY ARE NOW DRIVING CADILLAC AND A FORD F150 VERY HAPPY WITH BOTH. I AM SORRY THE CAMERY IS SO UGLY AND BORING IT LOOKS LIKE A GRANDMA CAR.

A very good question:
"SOUND OFF: Why Does Toyota Tick People Off?"

Illiberal, miserable, full of egoism, xenophobia, intolerance RACIST, faulty personalities hate distinguished figures from whence they derive. Toyota is the most admirable company worldwide. So there 's no surprice here.
Also these people don' t lose a chance to show their racism by downgrading Toyota fans personality. Finaly, there is something that make them happy and holds them in life.

Formula1 was it you that said "average people, because they drive a Toyota?"
At least, I wish you felt better...

Agent009:
You need to ask now why does BMW tick people off and compare. You'll see the same reasons leading to one conclusion. They are one and the same.

That is a very good question... I'll file that way for a later article. This one was spawned from the editorial.

plz, show me a comment of Toyota fan about "depreciating people' s personality as "average iq, because they buy BMW".

Actually this kind of attitude is unheard of. suddenly , it seems that silence is golden.

Its not hate its just that people keep exaggerating the truth about Toyota and it gets annoying. Toyota is an excellent car maker but they are bland and nothing is really great about them.

THAT IS TRUE THEY ARE BORING THEY ARE A GOOD CAR HOWEVER THERE ARE MANY GOOD CARS OUT THERE TODAY WHY NOT LOOK!! AND TRY SOMETHING ELSE THAT IS JUST AS GOOD OF CAR YOU MAY EVEN FIND THAT IT WILL BE BETTER.

It's these "nothing is really great about them" attitudes that are annoying. Everyone here seems to be under the impression that ANYBODY that buys a Toyota post the millenium has no interest in cars whatsoever. There's nothing even interesting about a Japanese brand becoming the number one automaker in the world by offering high-quality cars? Toyota has built their reputation, has earned their place. Just respect that and all will be right with the world.

Pretty much every sentence after your first one is a joke that nobody finds humorous.

...except 43LE, apparently...

This is getting old, formula1. It's just cliché after cliché. There are broken records surrounding me.

Toyota IS the world's largest automaker - but that doesn't mean it makes the best cars - it just has a huge sales revenue.

Consumer Reports is NOT the factor behind Toyota's success.

Toyota's ARE reliable cars at fair prices. That's it that's all. If you want a car that will last a long time without surprises, that looks decent, at a price the average person can afford and with a high resale value and good fuel economy - why wouldn't you look at Toyota or Honda?

GM cars are bottom of the barrel as far as I am concerned - German cars are on another other side of the spectrum for being overpriced and not very reliable (Mercedes in particular). But German cars are the envy of most enthusiasts because of branding, peer pressure from the influence of advertising and media commentary.

Where are you getting your information from??? and why do hate gm and mercedes so much??? have you even looked at a GM car today???? probably not from what it sounds like You keep driving the rice burners and keep sending your money to Japan, if you really new what toyota does with their cars you would be shocked.
example toyota rav4 is also a lexus rx350 you can buy a rav4 for about 20,000 and the lexus is 45,000 look at the new camery and the new lexus they are the same car for a diffence in price of about 15,000 more for the lexus which all you would need to do is go out and buy lexus emblems and put them on the camery and you have yourself a lexus at half the cost so who is the one that is being duped??? many of my friends use to be Big Time Toyota people and over the recent years they are buying American cars again and also mercedes because of the Toyota is so boring no style and not all of what they are cracked up to be You really should be open minded. Also so you know I years ago I use to sell Toyota's and I thought they where great cars now I know I was dupped and they are not worth the price you pay. YOU REALLY SHOULD BE OPEN MINDED AND ATLEAST LOOK! WHAT WOULD IT HURT! AND YOU JUST MAYBE PLEASANTLY SURPRISED!!!!!

Although we typically argue and debate amongst ourselves I think we can all get behind each other and say that was one of the worst articles ever. That guy gets paid to say stuff that anyone with a clue has known forever? Come on. As you can see on this forum everyday, Toyota/ Lexus is the one company that shows polarization among enthusiasts - like it or hate it.

Toyota makes excellent cars just like Kenmore makes excellent refrigerators. They serve their purpose and that is it. Cars are transportation. Cars are not meant to entertain or make you smile but some manufacturers value these aspects of the driving experience more than others. Toyota makes great cars....... for women and old people.

If ignorance is bliss, you must be one of the happiest posters here.

Yeah, and I know Chevys are such exciting cars. Wow, their 3.9L 230hp Impala really blows the 3.5L 270hp Avalon out of the water.

Toyota makes great cars for old people period.. look at Japan, its the oldest nation in the world - of course they make cars for old people. WE will all be old someday, and we will all want a Toyota at some point!

The baby boomers cant get enough of Toyota's here in the USA - they are OLD too.

The shear goofiness of Scion and their naming conventions shows what happens when your grandma tries to put on a leather jacket and go hang out at the high school dance.. you can't take the boring out of Toyota - even their f1 team is a boor.. and its not even part of Toyota culture!

XeroK00L, did you just boost Toyotaman's post (who I purposely de-boosted), which said German fans should be nuked?

I think guys we should not take those bashers seriously.
But, as Formula1 admitted they think that THE PEOPLE who buy "GERMAN" are superior. I think we should call them Nazi fans from now on. What do you think?

Why even respond to formula1diot's idotic comments? That kindergarten-educated imbecile is nothing but a scummy-looking balding pervert who lost his brain years ago shoveling coals.

No because formula1 is nothing like the rest of the German fans (bar amazingbimmer).

i normally wouldnt waste time responding to stupid comments, but contrary to your belief the tail that is on the 7 series, was seen in concept form way before that ugly lexus sc was released...not just that how did BMW, of all brands, copy a car that came out the exact same year that it did, they both were released as 2002 models....?and this article should read why are people so ticked off at BMW, its sad you read these posts its like people personal problems with BMW, Mercedes, and GM, like the companies personally walked up and beat the hell out of them (cars) and is if everyone that drives a brand car are all identical, personally i could care less about toyota i think they are a good company they make cars that people want and thus they sell, as does lexus, but everyone doesn't want a car like that

I AM GOING TO START THIS WITH I AM A AMERICAN AND I AM GOING TO GIVE THE AMERICAN AUTOMAKERS A CHANCE. I also LOVE MY CADILLAC'S. Have you looked or driven any of the new American cars today??? I have owned I own a Cadillac STS which has style and quality more so than any lexus on the rode today and they look so much better all of the GM line up when I do take it in the Cadillac dealer to get the oil change they give me a car to drive and Great Customer service oh and by the way one of my fiends owns a lexus they took their lexus in for a oil change and the lexus dealer charged them 145. for a oil change, which when I go to Cadillac it is only 29.00 I also traded in my Esclade with 60,000 miles never once did I have a problem with it infact I have owned 6 cadillacs in the past 7 years and none of them ever had to go into the dealer for any problems except for oil changes, My Mother owned a Buick Lesaber that she gave to her Grand daughter to drive in College well the car is still going it is like the everedy battery it keeps going and going the Buick has over 225,000 miles on it now. I do think that Lexus are boring and all they are are a more expencesive toyota you can not even tell them apart. GM did that in the 80's and sales droped however why can toyota and lexus get by the same thing GM did however you could still tell the difference between a Buick and Cadillac well you can not tell the difference between the lexus and the toyota and they get by with it. The American people really need to look at American cars I have always had great luck with my GM cars never any problems with them. I also know that it effects our economy with how many Japenesse cars are sold here and again You being a American need to at least look at some of the Americans Autos today, I believe that you will change your mind about your Toyota or your Lexus. I also want to add, the forein Automakers do not recall autos like the americans do I learned this 1st hand when my now ex wife owned a BMW 525I and it had a little over 2000 miles on it and one of the computer chips they contol the suspension failed well the dealer told me that it would be 2 weeks for the chip to be in because it was on backorder they also said that the reason it was on back order was because they do not recall cars like the American Automakers do because they want to keep their resale value up which is a joke because my ex wife before that owned a 325 and that she tried to trade it in they where only going to give her 15,000 for it well it was a 45,000 car brand new and it 2years old and it only had 21,000 miles on it when she try to trade it in, so not very good resale, I traded My Cadillac CTS 2003 in for my Esclade which my CTS had 70,000 miles on it and they gave me 18,000 for it on my trade so American cars do hold their Value even if they recall cars which I believe is better because they do not make me wait for a part they do not have because they are on back order. The Toyota and the Lexus

Cadillac has been lazy. 4 years ago every single Caddy was rubbish.
The old Escalade was a disaster inside, Seville FWD and rubbish, Deville rubbish etc.
Then they started giving them letters not names and then the DTS was rubbish, the STS still wasn't good (oddly it was good in China), the CTS had an abundance of plastic and pre facelift the SRX wasn't so great either.
Caddy are getting better but Volvo, Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, BMW, Audi and Merc all make better cars.

Agent009: Thank you for yet another pointless post which starts flame wars and everyone throws out their professional opinion.

I could care less of what you guys think of Toyota or Lexus,I love my cars and thats what matters to me,I'm sure you guys feel the same about what you drive and I can respect that,I'm not going to hate the other brands,but my question is why is there so much hate for Toyota???

Here here! Nobody is going to convince anyone of anything, so why don't we just stop trying to "reform" everyone to one brand?

No, that will never work. This site would lose its sheen.

SOUND OFF: Why Does Agent 009 Tick People Off?

THAT IS TRUE HOW DO THEY GET BY WITH IT WHEN THE QUALITY WENT DOWN IN THE 80'S WHAT HAPPEN TOYOTA BECAME BIG NOW THEY ARE DOING THE SAME MAYBE THE TOYOTA BUYER WILL WAKE UP!!!!! AND SEE THEY ARE BEING TAKEN BUY TOYOTA AND LEXUS

cadillac1, I am a Canadian but I too look first at Amrican cars before I buy or lease from our economic adversaries. I currently drive a leased Audi but the 2008 Cadillac CTS and a couple of other GM vehicles are on the top of my shopping list.
My very first car a a teenager was a used 1947 Cadillac. I find that, apart from the fake wire wheel covers and fender skirts of years past, Cadillac offers far better value than Mercedes. GM's automatic transmisions and airconditioners have always been technically superior and utterly reliable. I also like the Buick Lucerne but only because it can be ordered with the Cadillac DOHC Northstar engine.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT (ENNNORAK) IT IS GREAT TO HEAR THAT THE AMERICAN AUTO'S ARE AT THE TOP OF YOUR SHOPPING LIST.

IT IS ALSO NICE TO HEAR A CANADIAN STAND BEHIND THE AMERICAN AUTO MAKERS AND PUT AMERICAN CAR AT THE TOP OF THEIR SHOPPING LIST ESPECIALLY WHEN MANY AMERICANS DO NOT OR AT LEAST LOOK AT THE AMERICAN AUTOMOBILE. I KNOW MANY CANADIAN'S SINCE MY PARENTS OWN A ISLAND IN THE 1000 ISLANDS IN CANADA, WHAT A GREAT COUNTRY YOU LIVE IN. AGAIN THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT.

ALSO I AM LOOKING AT THE 2008 CTS WHEN IT COMES OUT IN THE NEXT MONTH OR SO MAN WHAT A CAR, HAVE YOU CHECKED IT OUT ON THE CADILLAC WEBSITE?

formula1diot, if you lift the bag that's perpetually over your head, you will realize:

1. you're just as ugly as you are stupid which makes you the homeliest bastard this side of the galaxy. At least the elephant man has some intelligence.

2. why people from all walks of life, of all shapes and sizes, call you names such as loser, moron, stupid, and other such names that quite frankly are way too complimentary for someone with the same IQ level as yourself;

3. why you're still alive. Let's face it, living with your face and stupidity is enough to drive anyone to suicide.

Be grateful.

crazylarry needs to be put down.

caddy has some ok cars, but the DUB scene makes everything look messed up. thts the reason it holds me back from buying one. theyre arent on par with its rivals but their old ones were nice.

YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THE CADILLAC WEBSITE AND SEE THE NEW 2008 CADILLAC CTS THAT IS COMING OUT YOU ARE GOING TO BE ESPECIALLY SURPRIZED IT IS GREAT!!!!

Well, when you do well, people hate you. It happens everywhere.

Other than Lexus, FJ Cruiser and the New Camry, Toyota is just total garbage.

and Scion's pretty good as well, but otherwise that's it.

you should think about the land cruiser and 4runner, gr8 SUVS.

haha.. my post got deleted because it's the truth.

NICE GOIN 9!

Wow. crazzylarry had a fourteen post.

I have a new theory- crazylarry (one z, not two, as above LOL) and formula1 are the same person; amazinBimmer is possibly involved, also.

CR is biased! Good example is 2006 vibe was not rated as high as the Matrix! It is the same car with a diferent grill! 2007 CR claim they are unbiased and now claim them to be equal! I have had 3 Toyota trucks and one ford F-250 4x4 and the toyotas were more reliable and easy to work on. Toyota definatly needs to start producing better quality and better engeneering in the trucks. The big three are still behind Toyota! Toyota is behind Honda! Way behind in quality, safety, engeneering and handling.

Toyota is an excellent company - they were lucky enough to have their strong point peak at a time when the American consumer was seeking it.

However, they are pretty much stale. What's next? Cherry.

Well this whole thing is getting old. If you like toyota fine but if the topic has nothing to do with toyota or lexus then dont say ne thing abt it. Especally when the Lexusfanatic freakky ppl start ticking ppl off for no reason. Its all old now

...

back to the original question--

nobody likes to be "shown up," and especially by someone ONCE thought to be inferior or less competent.

so it is natural that so many fans of other brands get ticked off at toyota.

with daihatsu, scion, toyota, lexus and hino, there are NO competitors that TMC does not now or soon will outperform in quality AND in the marketplace.

in time (less than most would think), even those in the high performance sports car category will start feeling the heat. just a matter of time before the results of toyota's efforts in motorsports trickle down to production cars.