Toyota building 10.4 million cars next year

10.4 Million.

That's more than all the European companies Combined.

Toyota For Life

Yep. Hooray for homogeny! I'll stick to something more unique and special than a cookie cutter. Im sure other true auto enthusiasts will say the same.

More than VW, Renault, PSA, Saab, Volvo, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Seat, Skoda, Bentley, Jaguar, Daimler, Land Rover, Rolls Royce, Maybach, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Alfa, Fiat, Maserati, Ferrari, Lada, Dacia, Mini, Lancia, Opel, Vauxhall, Bizarrini, Spyker, Bitter, Pagani, Gumpert, Zagato, Rinspeed and Smart combined?

You sure about that?

Damn.

I forgot Porsche.

Good -- not because I lust after Toyota but it will help flood the market and fuel a price war.

Toyota is the future.

god help us all.
it'll be like living in a world where everything is beige.

@w209w114

I am a true auto enthusiasts and i wont say that, toyota has made a lot of good cars.

supra, mr2, markII, chaser, crown, AE86, markX, caldina, majesta, century. I can go on like this for a very long time.

Sure they are good cars. Theres no denying toyota makes excellent reliable cars and I never said they didnt. However, they arent true enthusiast cars and dont seem like anything special in the long run.

Since not many people on this site know what makes a car manufacturer an enthusiast brand I am going to explain it as best as I can.

Heritage would help. Toyota makes new models every year and tosses the old models to the trash. They have no central design theme like other companies. BMW has always had their twin kidney grille, mercedes benz has preserved its grille design as well since the 1930s, just as rolls, bentley, and ferrari have preserved some form of the past in their new cars. Why? because they are proud of their heritage. An enthusiast worthy company should continue the tradition of the line of cars they start, keep their model names (not eliminate them much like toyota has done), and improve them. Toyota still has some time to go before it becomes an enthusiast brand.

STJ88, there's no way in hell you are a true auto enthusiast based on your comments here. A true auto enthusiast for one doesn't exclaim "diesels suck". Case closed.

As I posted below...

They lack a central design theme and dont care about preserving their heritage. The cars are good cars, its not their fault (figuratively speaking) that the company that makes them doesnt care about heritage. When they do start, they will be on the road to becoming classics.

43LE

In other words... A car is as enthusiast worthy as the company that makes them.

43LE

NO. Because they are still just Toyotas. The parent company needs to change their image. Lexus is actually trying to do that now with the new models.

43LE

I agree with everything you're saying. No the A class is not an enthusiast car. The A class does not reflect traditional Mercedes-Benz values and thats the reason why it is not an enthusiast car. Yes there are a lot of MR2 Clubs out there but that doesnt give the car heritage. Toyota should have continued the MR2, maybe it could have become as iconic as a mustang or camaro. Highly respectable cars by todays standards because of their heritage not their sticker price or superficiality. Thats a real enthusiast car.

43LE

LOL. We have been going back and forth the entire day and still ahvent settled this. Im not gonna budge and looks like you arent either. I believe as mature adults we can truly come into common ground with this issue. I do agree with some things you have said but you seem to completely disreagard the valid points I have made.

Finally :) you did convince me that the MR2 is an enthusiast car, although in its own right, it would also be unfair to compare it to lets say a 300SL. I just wish toyota had continued producing it. It could have been an icon.

Toyota USED to make good cars, now its products are no better than what's coming from the Koreans. Toyota's image of reliability is still strong in most people's minds, it's only a matter of time when people realize other carmakers are just as good.

BTW, most people who buy Toyota are only looking for something that can get them from a to b reliably.. nothing else.

Amen to that. I love my '95 Camry V6 (first one to use the 1MZ engine), it's rock solid, just passed 180K and it's still purring like new. I look at the new Camry and seriously question what they were thinking. The narwhal-nosed front doesn't do much, and I think the interiors look cheaper than they used to.

I don't know if they're just trying to keep up with the rest of the field with how edgy everyone is, or if it's just the general change in taste, but I preferred when they made solid cars that had nice clean classic lines.

I know that my car is probably good for at least another 70K miles. How long will the current ones stand up?

Toyota is a jack-of-all-trades company. They've already proven they can do sporty cars when they want to cater to the 'enthusiast' demographic. Now they've overwhelmingly proven that they can cater to the masses as well. Anyone who sits here and says that Toyota has never been about sporty cars just does not deserve to be here. Toyota can do it all better than anyone. Hate on...

The thing I like least about Toyota is there is no family resemblance between cars.

When a car is designed the design gets old they just throw away the design and start over.

They lack a central design theme and dont care about preserving their heritage. The cars are good cars, its not their fault (figuratively speaking) that the company that makes them doesnt care about heritage. When they do start, they will be on the road to becoming classics.

Agreed.

Also, I like the way Jeremy Clarkson describes why some companies are greater than others (aka "soul"). I generally don't agree with Clarkson, but in this case, I completely agree with him.

According to Clarkson, companies like Rolls Royce, BMW or Mercedes, Jaguar or Aston Martin (and a few others) have sould because they were founded by an enthusiastic individual (in the case of Rolls Royce and Aston Martin, two people) with a vision who stuck with that vision which includes keeping certain design themes. In fact the only Japanese car company Clarkson mentions with "soul" is Honda. Toyota? Clarkson totally slammed Toyota for lacking this element. I personally would also add Mitsubishi and Subaru to the list of Japanese cars that have a kind of passion behind them, despite Clarkson thinking they don't. Toyota, even to me, is just a boring car with not much passion that goes into it. I loved my Corolla and Cressida, but they didn't feel as exciting as other cars I have owned. Great cars, just lacked something.

Bill,

I agree.

You guys are being ridiculous. Toyota plans to sell 10 million cars and you want them to have a consistent design theme, like BMW or MBZ? If thats what your standard is, then look at Lexus and Scion, which do have consistent design themes. Look at Toyota trucks which are consistent. But a Camry is not going to look like a Tundra or an xD. An Avalon is not going to look like a Yaris or a 4Runner.

And soul????? Are you kidding me with that??? Cars are machines, they do not have souls. My gods, I thought I was done having to say that. But I guess we're back to that nonsense again.

Sure they could look like eachother. What about a specific shaped grille like audi? or halo headlights like BMW? Why do you think lexus is sticking to that trapezoidal grille? A search for a real identity maybe? one that it didnt have years ago.

A 1968 BMW 2002ti looks nothing like a 2008 328i
A 1973 Mercedes 300SEL looks nothing like a 2007 S600

BUT the design cues are still there. And the products are immediately identifiable.

Up until a few years ago, Benz and Bimmer line-ups consisted of what 3 cars each? Its pretty easy to maintain a design theme there. But a Z4 looks nothing like a 2002ti, except for the pontiac, i mean kidney, grille.

The current LS and the rest of the Lexus design language carries some cues from the original LS, demonstrating my point that small luxury brands can do this.

And as you seem to be ignroing all the areas where Toyotas do have a common design language, when was the last time you saw a new Toyota, and did not know that it was a Toyota?

Your exaple on the Z4 is a bad one. Yes MB and BMW have more cars now but the similarities are still there. Did you do research as to when Pontiac came out with that grille? I see many old 80's japanese econoboxes and I cant tell them apart eachother much less what brand they belong to. Heck Toyota and others even changed their logo so no luck there.

"And soul????? Are you kidding me with that??? Cars are machines, they do not have souls." Somehow people feel very connected with thier cars. I find it funny when members here talk about Toyota and its other brands. No consistant designs? If that were the case, wouldnt people here start critizing a Rav4 to be a blown up Camry? Ive already read many people mistake the LS (Toyota Celsior) as a glorified Avalon. If Toyota chose to have different looks to thier cars, it must have a good reason behind it. The Toyota trucks have a consistant grille design, but thats just trucks. I dont want a Corolla to look like a shrunken Camry. Same as how Dodge made the Avenger look like a shrunken Charger.

Youre missing the point completely.

Can't get the point, if they never understood it from the get go.

I am a true car enthusiasts and toyota is one of my favorite car makers they have made allot of interesting cars, and if people could just stop hating they would see that.

And look at the toyota crown is been in ptoduction since 1955 and its design is very consistant. The same counts for the markII and majesta.

Lexus_Admirer_ , Audi's new 500 hp V12 Diesel will totally dominate any Lexus flagship currently in production or in the pipeline. It has an interior that is even better than the Mercedes S-Class interior and a far superior AWD system. Acceleration and fuel economy with this engine are a bonus.

Lexus_Admirer_, A "jacked-up station wagon" is the way to go because then you get proper front seat height as well as improved visibility over tall vehicles in traffic. I don't know of any rice burner that optimizes the combination of luxury, power, and fuel economy of the Q7 V12 diesel. I never said anything about an F1 V10 supercar so I'm not sure who is out of his mind. Maybe you were hallucinating? BTW, I would not want to drive an F1 supercar anywhere except on a proper track. The Q7 V12 diesel far exceeds all my requirements on all public and most private roads as well.

Your comment "The LF-A is Lexus' flagship car and is in the pipeline" is getting a bit picky. I'm talking about cars that ordinary people drive and not some F1 machine that belongs on a track whether or not it can be made street legal. Most people curently recognize the LS 460 LWB version as Lexus' fagship and if there is a next-generation replacement for that about to emerge from the pipeline then that will be the new flagship.

one of the reasons toyota is so successful, is that they are smart and FLEXIBLE enuff to recognize the DIFFERENCES in different markets and demographics.

as STJ88 said, some models (mainly japan domestic only) are conservative and HARDLY CHANGE over the years. that's PERFECT for the demographics for those models.

europe can be conservative too; hence many europhiles place great emphasis on tradition and continuance of certain "trademark" design cues.

the u.s. on the other hand, besides being highly varied internally, is also a DYNAMIC, even fickle at times, society. we LOVE change. even just for the sake of change itself.

sometimes this results in flashy new designs that become terribly DATED after a while. look no further than some of the domestic designs for the worst examples. toyota attempts to cater to american tastes, but being basically conservative, they've made few styling horrors. for this, they're damned for being staid and boring. but their designs (with a few exceptions) tend to age well.

the whole world, and least of all americans, are NOT to be judged by stuffy euro standards.

w209:
"Heritage would help. Toyota makes new models every year and tosses the old models to the trash. They have no central design theme like other companies. BMW has always had their twin kidney grille, mercedes benz has preserved its grille design as well since the 1930s, just as rolls, bentley, and ferrari have preserved some form of the past in their new cars."


TOYOTA'S HERITAGE is making utterly dependable, RELIABLE CARS. as mentioned, style is ONLY SKIN DEEP. and subject to changing tastes over the years, decades and generations.

TOYOTA'S HERITAGE of reliability is so ingrained, people can always be confident of buying ANY toyota product, regardless of looks or "first year" teething problems. (unless the looks are mismatched for the target market, like the late, unlamented Echo.)

it also accounts for Lexus and Scion being IMMEDIATE SUCCESSES upon launch.

who woulda expected the awkward looking scion xB to be such a hot ticket item? buyers really didn't give a hoot about its looks. it was functional. it was built by toyota. so it was AUTOMATICALLY ENDOWED with TOYOTA'S HERITAGE of quality and reliability!

the flip side of mb and bmw retaining their "heritage" grill designs, is they strictly LIMIT design possibilities. they've also become (to some) BORING. instantly recognizable, yes. and also instantly DISMISSED by those with NO interest in those brands.

both brands have tried to "freshen" these staid old designs, by introducing new "eyes" besides the old noses. with MIXED success. some lighting designs look fresh and innovative. others just look odd.

mb's 4 ovals looked fresh once. today's variations look strained, dated, a "fad" gone stale.

maybe mb needs to LEARN when SOME designs SHOULD be "thrown into the trash." (like the fins of the late '50s, early '60s. a sad attempt at following an american fad.)

AlexApex

Despite the recent quality slip ups, Most can say that Toyota has in fact made reliable cars throught the years. The xB was also a hit. It was different made by toyota and really CHEAP.

Yes, toyotas have good quality but in their respectment segment. Some fanboys on this site think Toyota quality exceeds Mercedes, even Bentley but I beg to differ. I doubt those people have been lucky enough to have a right to differ after having owned both.

I will go on by saying that your overinflated statement about Mercedes "strictly" limiting their designs because of one grille is ridiculous. I highly doubt they feel constrained. Just look at the new grille on all new Lexus cars. Is it not a central theme? Why would Lexus limit their design possibilities? Oh I know, So they can start somewhere with what MB and BMW have been doing forever.

Mercedes and BMW have proved that original design themes can still look as new as ever. I cant think of one these ongoing themes that looks "staid"

There have been designs from EVERY auto manufacturer that havent made it to today because of changing market preferences. MB's tail fins were a response to the American preferences at the time and look great on the cars, not being excessive or overloaded with chrome.

Toyota chooses not to retain their heritage because I frankly dont think they see themselves as a heritage worthy company. Their main goal is VOLUME, to crank out more, put trendy designs on the market that quickly grow old (forget about timeless design) and make more $$$ from Appliances that get you from point A to point B. I doubt they will every change their ways

...Cutie . Yes Toyota is the most profitable in total dollars earned. However Porsche's profit in percentage is higher. Therefore your analogy is only partially correct.

Also you correctly stated that Lexus is the fastest growing brand in Europe. Percentage wise this is true. But if you only sold say 200 cars last year, then selling 1000 s not as hard as if the total numbers sold were 100 fold. Basically the BMW 3 series increase alone globally, was probably more than Lexus sold in Europe in it entire existence. Although I don't have the exact figures in front of me, I venture to say the same analogy may hold true for BMW if you limited the 3 series sales to Europe alone. There is that much disparity.

This has been shown time and time again.

We are watching history unfold.The game is over its just a matter of time.Toyota has more in cash reserves than BMW,Mercedes,and several others combined.

I have talked about this fact several times with other Automotive sites. There are two schools of thought.

1. This is an American site and Lexus is very popular here. So you have a larger pool to draw from. We also release more postings on Lexus than most any site, the typical Lexus fan site has maybe two to three article a week if that. Check it out it is true. So we tend to garner more interest from the die hard fans that see a vacuum elsewhere of Lexus talk. Bees flocking to the hive so to speak.

or

2. Being the relative new guy on the luxury car block, the die hard fans get little respect from the market. This constant battering in the media has many die hard fans very insecure. What is merely trash talk to the Euroguys (this type of battering is old school to them), hits many of the Lexus guys to the core. You can easily see the insecure ones post, like "Lexus Rules!" in the middle on a BMW M3 article where Lexus has not been mentioned. They standout like a sore thumb in the midst of intelligent conversation. This encourages feedback into the Lexus comments by equally fervent fans of ther makes.

So take your choice either were are a source of information of Lexus info for a eager public to discuss.

OR

The a lot of Lexus fans are too busy defending their choice of vehicle. Whether it is needed or not.

Anyway you look at it, the Euroguys may fight amongst themselves from time to time, But when it comes to Lexus they will ban together against a common foe. So the Lexus fans get hit from all angles.

009:

how about,

1) news (and yes, even rumors) about lexus is generally interesting, and besides the lexus supporters, even Euro fans check out the articles and threads.

2) few people, OTHER than euro fans, actually bother WASTING their time on the stories about euro cars.

AlexApex -

"news (and yes, even rumors) about lexus is generally interesting, and besides the lexus supporters, even Euro fans check out the articles and threads."

Yes Lexus is very important to us and the industry. They do so many things so well, but they really could do a better job in the PR department releasing tidbits and facts. In general their fan base is left starving for details.

"few people, OTHER than euro fans, actually bother WASTING their time on the stories about euro cars."

I tend to disagree, I see it all of the time. One of the first comments in an article of history preservation of BMW's last week was a misdirected fan boy commenting that collector BMW's should rot and that "Lexus Rules". Actually no point to the comment but he splattered the thread many times.

While I realize these guys are a minority it does seem the more immature Toyota/Lexus fan boys tend to be more vocal than the others. It is unfortunate that they cast a shadow on the responsible ones.

w209:

"There have been designs from EVERY auto manufacturer that havent made it to today because of changing market preferences. MB's tail fins were a response to the American preferences at the time and look great on the cars, not being excessive or overloaded with chrome."

good spin. they were STILL very unTRADIONALLY mb. so where was your exalted mb "heritage" when they were just pandering to americans to increase their sales? and with just a half-assed fin too. if you gonna do fins, DO fins! like chrysler and gm did. ford was more modest, but still bolder than what mb tried to pass off as (then modern) FINS.


"Toyota chooses not to retain their heritage because I frankly dont think they see themselves as a heritage worthy company."


LOL! apparently you chose to just IGNORE the comments about the TOYOTA QUALITY HERITAGE
transcending MERE style and going to the core of making modern, bulletproof RELIABLE cars.

(NCLUDING reliable electrics and electronics. which seem NOT to be a part of mb "heritage." oh wait, the germans apparently STOLE the "Prince of Darkness" electrics heritage from the brits! LOL!)

in any case, toyota has kept traditional designs in their mainline JDM models, most notably, the Century.


"Their main goal is VOLUME, to crank out more, put trendy designs on the market that quickly grow old (forget about timeless design)."


sure, and mb is ABOVE seeking volume? and they don't want to dilute their precious heritage either i suppose, hence the Smart line.

Unfortunatley, No surprise as all the Yanqui companies still continue to make subferior products and won't change the way they make a products.