Mercedes Refocuses R Class Downward Towards Lexus

i.e., they can't sell them so they are making them cheaper

What the hell does that mean and what does it have to do with this thread? Fanboys... sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't...

Everyone knows the R-Class is the worst Mercedes. Do you think this is shocking, horrifying or surprising to Benz fans? I don't.

Let me correct that. It's the UGLIEST Mercedes, not the worst, because it's fairly competent. I just don't know what they were thinking... it looks like a hearse, or a shoe.

Lexus should create an R class rival. It will be beautiful like all Lexus cars are when they're put next to a Mercedes.

looks like an ugly minivan to me. I'd rather have an Oddesey or a Pacifica. Wasn't it using the same platform as the Pacifica anyway. Yuck!!!

HAS ANYONE IN STUTTGART LOOKED AT THE ACTUAL VEHICLE ???

5 grand does not compensate for the ugly looks. I have a neighbor driving a black on black R320 with tinted rear windows. I kidded him why don't you wear a coroner coat at least - no need to describe his reaction.

The car has been DOA, why push the agony?

I think Mercedes is stretching themselves too thin on too many models, rather than focusing on a reasonable amount. A car company doesn't need every type of vehicle in every segement because more likely than not some will be unprofitable.

i disagree completely.

true luxury brands must provide a wide array of products for the simple reason that consumers aren't willing to pay large premiums to have the EXACT same car as thousands of other people.

mercedes, bmw, porsche, bentley, jaguar, etc offer many different models with thousands of combinations of options, colors and trim. affluent consumers want 'custom' products.

I think the answer is a combination of your opinions. Currently Mercedes is building more models than most other luxury brands. Although this superfluous amount of different models makes your particular Mercedes somewhat unique, the brand itself becomes more commonplace. But this seems to be happening to all the luxury brands as they strive for profits first and brand image second.

to my point, mercedes is also commanding the most significant price premiums over all the other full-line luxury brands. there is a direct correlation between breadth of line and premium pricing.

??? They moved the price downward to hit the intended target the SUV class vehicles.

Lexus simply is the most cost effective option in this class, and their price alignment will be better matched.

So the adjustment in dollars is soley an economic consideration.

thats b.s. and you know it 009.

I dont have a subsription to AutoNews to know if they even talk about Lexus in the article. But you clearly baited readers with the Lexus comparison in the headline. There is no Lexus SUV for the R to go downmarket to. The RX competes directly with the ML class, and the R stands all by itself in its ugliness, with (thankfully) no competitor stupid enough to put anything else out there in its class (and I use that word loosely).

I think the car is great and is roomier than anything out there. Get rid of the current front end design add nice headlights, grille, and bumper and LED tail lamps and this car WILL infact sell. Most people buy a car on looks.

The styling is the biggest impediment with this vehicle.

Sounds like you want Mercedes to make over the R-Class to look like the Q7... It's everything the R-Class wishes to be design-wise.

Will

What load are you spewing? and where on earth did u see Audi written on my post? I want it to look like a BETTER MERCEDES not an Audi. ON another note, youre the one that wishes any lexus SUV would look half as good as the Q7 since u bring up the subject

What subject did I bring up you rude brat? I certainly didn't bring up Lexus. The R-Class in its current form is ugly, regardless of your translucent tactic of bringing up Lexus.

Eh, none of them look as good as the Q7 4.2. There, settled.

The Germans still don't have a clue to what Americans want,and their too cockey to care.What history do they have building SUV's 10yrs they don't have a clue.

Typical reply of someone who has no clue, an idiot, in other words.

Mercedes built their first AWD vehicle in 1907: the 1907 Dernburg-Wagen

http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Jan07/04_Mercedes_Benz_4MATIC_An_In_Depth_Look_At_Mercedes_Four_Wheel_Drive_Model_Range_Technology_And_History_1.html

Then in 1932, there was the G3 and G4 "SUV" and in 1939 Mercedes brought the G5 AWD SUV with 4-wheel steering unto the market. It was primarily used by the German Army but it was a very advanced vehicle for its time featuring advanced differentials and even an independant chassis.

In 1979, the G-Wagon came along.

So before you post a stupid comment, do some research and save yourself the embarrassment.

...but it's a Mercedes, it's bound for greatness, right? It has to be...

I can't wait to see these on the used market, they'll make perfect values for people after only a German badge. This is all very reminiscent of the VW Phaeton. Maybe the Pope will get an R-Class?

don't be ridiculous.

no brand puts out a full-line of cars that will become classics. there are always market failure. but while we're on the subject, mercedes has put out a huge number of cars that are in high demand on the 'used' and 'classic' market. how many lexus are in demand at 15 years old?

The bottom line is the vehicle is to expensive for the type of buyer it would suite best, ie, the typical suburban North American family. It doesn't help that it looks like a hearse.
I also have to agree that the title of this thread is meant to start a flame war. How is Lexus "downmarket". What a Chooch 009.

Lexus is downmarket compared to Mercedes-Benz.

Keep dreaming.

you are right david...they priced the R far too high for the consumer who ended up wanting it: suburban upper-middle class families. the RX is a deal at $40k while the R was running $60k with reasonable options.

However, enthusiast, R does not compete with RX. The RX and ML are direct competitors. Same size, same style, similar options, similar engines (except for the large-engined M's).

actually it does. you can't look at things simply from the perspective of people who are knowledgeable about cars.

the R and the RX are being bought by the same target market: upper middle class suburban families. they're both soccer mom cars. therefore, they compete. (of course, the R is far more expensive than the RX so it's having a hard time since soccer moms won't spend that kind of money)

I still don't think they'd be cross-shopped, with the ML sitting in the same room as the R. It's just too obvious that the ML is the RX competitor- at least for everyone that breathes.

What really kills me, is that they can chop 5k off the price w/o cutting quality from the car. Not that its a big secret, but think, how much the price of some MB's are inflated based purely on their 'pretiege'. The S600, for instance. Is that engine, really worth another 50k? Or are you buying a '6' in place of a '5', because your wallet can handle it....

poeple spend the extra money for an s600 for a couple of reasons. The 600 mercedes name plate has prestige behind it unlike the 600 that lexus has. Secondly the mercedes v12 is legendary. not only that but the difference between the acceleration of the s550 and s600 is like night an day. even though that shouldn't matter much to lexus fans becasue neither the ls600 or ls460 can match the acceleration of the s550 let alone the s600's. mabe the question you should as yourself is how does lexus justify the price of the ls600 when it's slower, has no trunk space, performs worse, and has worse fuel economy than the ls460. now thats why you call a lose lose situation.

Merc07,

You are a douchebag. Calm down, and re-read my post.

First of all, I did not mention Lexus anywhere in my post. No where. I am in no way a Lexus advocate. But you are clearly a Lexus-hater, with serious issues.

I was making a clear observation that Mercedes can afford to cut the price tag on their vehicles without incurring a loss (in other words, they still make a profit). I was pointing out that Mercedes has an extreme market advantage in the fact that they have the leverage of their brand's heritage.

The S600 may get to sixty .9 seconds faster than the S550. (BTW, actual base price descrepency is 87k vs. 144k) but what is the REAL cost to MB?

Brand recognition, cache, etc. is an intagible asset in itself. A valuable on at that. MB probably has more than any other brand in the world. I was giving them a compliment. You, on the other hand, would embarass them.

that's what you call a powerful brand: the ability to charge a premium over competitive products. for example, the S starts at $88,000 while the LS starts at $61,000. that's a 44% premium. partly attributed to product and partly to a powerful brand.

M35:

to be fair, you can't compare the base price of the S550 to the base price of the S600. many S550 options are standard on the S600. with the same options, the S550 is over $110,000 compared to $144,000 for the S600.

Nobody buys an S600 for sheer speed. You buy a 6 for snob appeal and because you can. We know the base price is diffeent the 6 has all the 550 options standard and a V12. Adding 4 cylinders and a turbo cost money dude. Not to mential all the afformentioned options. That car is about snob appeal. I see S550's everyday, they are almost common. But I rarely see the 6. Theres a reason for that.
T

enthusiast, actually, EVERY option on the S550 is standard on the S600. The only options on the latter are super-fancy leather, 12-spoke rims and an iPod adapter. That's about $150K. However, a loaded S550 RWD (not incl. accessories) will run you $115K. The difference is justifiable- in fact, it's very similar to the difference between the two Lexus sedans.

Still, $30k for 4 cylinders and a turbo. It was a simple observation. German brands most likely have wider profit margins.

"Still, $30k for 4 cylinders and a turbo."

If you read my post above, it really is the same as the difference between the LS460L and LS600hL. So I am shooting back with:

$30K for an electric motor and 0.4 extra liters of displacement?

But with Mercedes the price is "justified" because it's a Mercedes, right?

That's the simple point I was trying to make.

Also, the Lexus' technology is new, expensive R&D, while Benz has been buidling V12's for how long?

Once again, I was simply pointing out a positive advantage MB has. If they could not profit after droppin 5k off the sticker on the R class they would have simply dropped it from the lineup - that's all I was saying!

Toyota does not compete with Mercedes. Get that into your head.

I agree about that. But this site is known to be a flame war fest. Titles here are engineered to start wars...

Now we wouldn't do that now would we. Mercedes does not target sub premium brands, So Toyota would not be targeted.

Have any of you ever been in an R Class? My dealer uses an R500 as a courtesy car. Its really not a bad ride. It has compliant but firm handling, its roomy and has a great interior. I think that most buyers really just don't know what it is. People have become so SUV focused thats its hard to sell and large wagon type vehicle. I think they need to advertise it, restyle the front end a little and push the attributes of it when compared to SUV's.
T

PRECISELY

good points, but it will still be aztek-ugly

Tauron said "restyle the front end." That means it WON'T be ugly any more (or shouldn't be).

The AMG R-Class in red actually looks pretty menacing. If I was married & had kids, I might just pick up the wife one to scare off the other soccer moms.

Here in Orange County, California I see a hell of a lot of Mercedes R-Class vehicles.

So there I said it!

Why do people keep comparing the X6 to the R-Class? One is a SUV(SAV) and the other a family wagon. Wasn't BMW supposed to release a V series to compete with the R if it was succesful enough to warrant competition in the segment?

Yes, it annoys me, too. The X6 sort of competes with the M-Class, but not really. Its closest competition is the Infiniti FX- which is nothing like the R.

It appears that nobody took the time to read the article. The thrust is not that MB is cheapening the quality of the vehicle but, rather, is limiting the offerings to a v-6 and a diesel. In the rarefied air of luxury cars, an environment where bigger is better, e.g., v-8 better than v-6, v-12 better than v-8, MB's decision is all the more remarkable. Indeed, even when MB introduced its first econobox 190 (a 1.9 litre 4)it offered a bigger engine (a 2.8 litre 6). In a market segment where perception is reality this should create some buzz if only because it is a concession that the R is not perceived and, therefore, is not a performance vehicle. You simply cannot say that about any other Audi, BMW or MB. Every one of their models can be equipped with a monster engine or a "sport" trim.

D@&#...aging 009! I cannot access the whole article from a subscription base site.

Bill your the idiot If you read what I said Mercedes only has about 10 yrs in the U.S. market. I dont give a rat's ass about the 4wd they built in the 1900's that Wouldn't sell here either you bone head.