BMW loses ANOTHER car comparo?

This month's Motor Trend has a luxury car comparo where the BMW 745i end up in a very unfamiliar position...DEAD LAST!

Here are the Motor Trend rankings:

1. Audi A8L
2. Lexus LS430
3. VW Phaeton
4. Mercedes S430
5. Jaguar Vanden Plas
6. BMW 745i Sport

What's up with that?

Don't get us wrong, you know I'm not a big fan of the 7-series design (although it's grown on me and I think it looks even better now that I've seen the 5-series) but there is NO WAY this car should have come in last place.

The Motor Trend team must have spent too much time and had too many samples at the 'Burning Man' event, during their tests in the desert.

Here's how we would rank these cars an why:

1. Audi A8L- Best fit, finish and highest material quality interior. Plus AWD so it's the best 'bang for the buck'.

2. BMW 745i Sport- By a clear margin, the best driving and handling car in this test. Unfortunately, the 'Incredible Mr. Limpet' design, makes it forfeit a first place ranking.

3. Mercedes-Benz S430- The most handsome of the group, best tranny and best interior interface.

4. VW Phaeton- Great fit and finish but heavy weight lets the S430 slip into 3rd place. It definitely needs the 12 cyl. for a satisfying experience.

5. Jaguar Vanden Plas- Classic look a winner and newer models are much nicer and more reliable than past entries.

6. Lexus LS430- How does this car even make it into this comparison? We like the design of the LS even less than the new 7. The LS is more suited (and pretty well we might add)to an E-class/5-series comparo. They need a long wheelbase version to play in this game. We'll have to wait 2007 for the next LS.

So there you have it.

Motor Trend's picks and AutoSpies.com's picks.

But the most important question is...what are your picks?

Please list them in order and give us details of why you picked what you did.

MercBasher - 8/6/2004 6:29:19 AM

+1 Boost

You ask how does the Lexus play in this game. Well most buyers don't use the back seat very often for adults, even in the large sedan class.

So lack of a long wheelbase is not such a big deal.

The Lexus LS is the best selling large luxury import sedan this year (by a large margin), and its sales are on an upward trend this year. Yes it is the ugliest luxury vehicle bar none, but it is supremely comfortable, well spec-ed, relatively price competitive, and reliable.

While I don't have interior measurements on hand, I'd be surprised if the LS is not bigger inside than the new Jaguar XJ8. Should I be surprised?

I guess because Lexus dealers don't advertise often in Autospies, you feel obliged to support your regular sponsors Audi, BMW and M-B.

Surely the answer to which luxury sedan is best depends on what your criteria are. If you want brand image then its M-B, if you want security in winter then the Audi, if you want to be able to drive across country comfortably and not break down then its the Lexus, if you want cute design then the Jaguar, and if you want to pretend you're not a snob - but you like nice things - then the VW.

pjteves - 8/6/2004 8:53:13 AM

+1 Boost

Hello again 001,

More anti-VW bias showing again from you folks!!!

The VW Phaeton is way, repeat WAY better in all respects the the MB S class.

The Phaeton is only .3 seconds slower than the A8L in acceleration to 60 MPH. Have you folks even driven one?

The Phaeton isn't that much heavier than the A8L, and except for the main body shell, the car's all Aluminum with plastic front fenders.

MercBasher - 8/6/2004 5:11:47 PM

+1 Boost

Agent 001

What you really mean is that because no VW, Jaguar or Lexus dealers regularly advertize in AutoSpies you want to promote M-B, BMW and Audi.

Am I right?

MercBasher - 8/6/2004 6:29:11 PM

+1 Boost

To Agent 001

Thanks for the rapid response, and of course your opinions are well respected.

To what do you attribute the disconnect between your opinions and trends in the market. Is the US marketplace wrong (perhaps misled by bores in the print media) or do you have different needs than most buyers?

For the record the market news I look at is Automotive News who report the following calendar year to date sales, and percent changes from the same period last year.

163,292 Lexus, 16%
147,313 BMW, 4%
129,912 Cadillac, 15%
122,130 Mercedes, (minus 2%)
113,795 Acura, 17.1%
81,219 Volvo, 2.7%
74,672 Infiniti, 12.6%
44,991 Audi, (minus 8.3%)
28,051 Jaguar, (minus 5.9%)
22,888 Saab, (minus 20.7%)
18,533 Land Rover, (minus 12.4%)
18,415 Porsche, 16.8%

You're sure to note that in the US marketplace this year, the Europeans are all declining, or flat(BMW, Volvo) except Porsche which is now a truck company (trucks outsell cars at Porsche in the US). Contrast this with the Japanese luxury brands and Cadillac which are all up big (over 10%) in the US this year.

Again please what are the criteria you use to decide which are better vehicles, and how can you educate the readers of the news letters, and watchers of your tv spots, to the advantages of your criteria.

Steve - 8/6/2004 8:39:23 PM

+1 Boost

If we take a peek at a recent AutoSpies article, we can see 7 series sales off sharply year-to-date '04 as compared to '03. Motor Trend accurately stated the 7's ride is awesome, but the car looks, well, unattractive and the controls (iDrive being one of them) and "conveniences" (AKA BMW's way of "improving" on something that ain't broke, like preventing their self-canceling turn-signals from being manually cancelled) are unwelcome. Throw BMW's own execs into the mix confessing that they've screwed up, and you have a lot of consistency.

Yeah, BMW's cars still drive great, but they're ugly inside and out, riddled with creeping gadgetitis, and bear 175% more defects than the industry average. So much for "The Ultimate Driving Machine."

Steve - 8/6/2004 8:39:23 PM

+1 Boost

MercBasher - 8/6/2004 9:24:17 PM

+1 Boost

To carfan

By what criteria other than price should the Lexus not be in the group - the Lexus has more interior room and more trunk space than the Mercedes S 430.

MercBasher - 8/7/2004 1:01:53 PM

+1 Boost

The height of the Mercedes S430 is of course not 27.2 inches, it should have read as 57.2 inches.

stecot - 8/7/2004 4:31:33 PM

+1 Boost

I think Motor Trend has got it right and you're wrong. I've had an S430 and got rid of it after 18 months for an LS430. The Mercedes quality is terrible! The car was a shop queen and was in for multiple serious deficiencies for 2 months out of the first 6 months I had it. The LS has been impeccable. Much better build quality, much more efficient use of interior volume with smaller foot print, much better quality materials especially interior, much better interior design, smoother and more powerful engine, and ALL the technology works as advertised without breaking down. The best part is that you get a better car for $25 grand less. Had to pay MSRP for the Merc but got $6000 discount on Lexus. Three friends of mine have had BMW 7's. All of them have had significant problems with two getting out of them in less than a year. One went to a BMW 6, the other to an Audi A8L. The third guy has the car in the shop once a month. The LS 430 might not be a beauty pagent finalist, but at least I don't have to go to the dealer to visit it. It's always ready for us to use without the fear that someting critical is going to break.

MercBasher - 8/7/2004 5:47:25 PM

+1 Boost

About 25 years ago I read of some research in Europe on large sedans that would be interesting to conduct again.

Interviewers asked adults which cars they thought looked expensive and refined - they showed them the vehicles. The big shock was that the bland Peugeot 604 scored very highly in terms of image versus big sedans from Jaguar, M-B, BMW etc. The Peugeot 604 was never a big seller - presumable because the buyers did know the difference between the Peugeot and the German sedans, even if many of the adults didn't.

I would love to see similar analysis done now, because I suspect a lot of the M-B owners would be disappointed to find that regular folks think that the Audi and Lexus are just as expensive and refined as the M-B S-class.

This would leave the M-B S-class owners wondering why did they spend $15-25,000 more than an Audi or Lexus buyer for a vehicle with fewer features, less reliability and weak performance (at least for the S430).

My selections:
1. Audi A8 - Impressive looks and capabilities
2. Lexus LS - Reliability, comfort, full spec
3. BMW 7 - Strange but looks to the future
4. Jaguar - Agile, light, but needs higher spec
5. VW - Too heavy, but great interiors
6. Mercedes S - Unreliable, cheap materials

elviososa - 8/8/2004 10:02:05 PM

+1 Boost

Well...compeared this spies'pick with the best SUV under 60K, I think this pick makes much more sense.

jimmyriddle69 - 8/9/2004 2:59:54 AM

+1 Boost

I am a Jag man, hence the handle.

I tried a 735i earlier in the year because BMW UK were doing some killer lease deals. Killer also referes to to car too, for it was awesome. UK car mags have been accused of bias in favour of BMW over the years, but if this car really is superior - just admit it.

Audi's build quality is good, but the car is dynamically inept, and all those who call it pretty must think Miss Piggy is a beauty queen.

In the UK, Lexus is still regarded as an up-market Toyota and out of it's league here. I've piloted boats that took corners better than that car.

I don't know how many individuals can afford this particular "Peoples Car" but the VW is high on kit, low on everything else and in the UK especially, people are not handing over $100,000 for a VW badge (yes they are that much here).

As for MB, it's still a good car, just overtaken by machines that are 6-7 years younger than it, and it shows in quality, engine performance etc.

As for my XJ6, UK's What Car magzine recently voted the Jag 1st, Audi 2nd in a CEO/Executive comparison and as neither car has changed in 3-months, how do you account for that change in standings?. If you can afford one of these cars (and most motoring writers CANNOT) then just enjoy your choice because none of these manufacturers makes a lemon at this end of the marketplace.