Audi S5 compared again with BMW 335i coupe...the results may surprise you

I agree 100% with your sentiments, GermanNut. Choosing between these two is very hard; I wouldn't say one is decidedly prettier than the other, but I prefer the S5's looks- very, very slightly. It's also more luxurious and faster, but that's why you pay the extra price. 335i may have better handling, but it's a difference that only the most avid car fan will notice, not the average driver. I would go with the S5 at the moment, and I'm going to be looking at one for my winter car. But I completely respect the E92, because it's my favorite BMW at the moment. It just so happens that the S5/RS5 is my second-favorite Audi (behind R8), and that will probably win out...

c'mon official Audi Defender, just say the S5 is way more GORGEOUS than the 335, there is nothing "slightly better" on the S5, it is HANDS DOWN the winner. How many people will ever actually takw it to the twisties?

S5 for me...

Yes, CommonSense, and in the twisties, the S5 will shine. It can pretty much do anything, anywhere, within logical limits.

Okay, Jim. I'll admit it. The S5 is a gem. It is most definitely more beautiful than the 335i. I was just trying to placate some of my adversaries...

"I was just trying to placate some of my adversaries..."

your placating shined through so i had to challenge that making sure you had a spine to say what your opinion was instead of cowaring to the badge whores. anyone with half a brain can see this S5 is a gem. cheers.

S5.

Walter de'Silva meets Audi.

Italian passion meets immaculate German precision.

BMW = Mercedes >>>>>>>>>>> Audi > Lexus = Infiniti

335i coupe no qestion.

Shut it already you tosser.

You are a disgrace for Europeans around here.

yes tosser
:)

only question... why is the 335 in the comparison without the Sports Package?

Because there wasn't one available at the time? But I do agree, with or without the M Sport kit the BMW is still by far the best car to drive. But that's about it. The interior is ugly and boring and I don't like the exterior as well. It's not ugly but it just doesn't really scream "BMW" anymore.

Since that methodist Mr. Bangle took over BMW design a lot of the typical BMW soul has been lost. He even admits his cars are not very photogeneric.

I really dont wanna see what happens if we put you in a room with Bangle.... but I can bet the results will be abit painful!!!

hilarious!

Other than the interior, the 335 is a better car.

And the "added convenience of quattro" to me is not. A RWD car is more fun to drive.

I'll take the Audi because of its superior AWD sytem. I can only hope that the Audi V8 engine now has 4 valves per cylinder instead of 5 as 5 valves per cylinder is a needless complication and invites extra downstream maintenance and repair cost.

The v8 in the S5 is 4 valves pre cilinder.

@EnnNorak
Having 5 valves/cyl isn't exactly "needless complication". Theoretically, having 3 intake & 2 exhaust valves means you are getting a bit more air to your cylinders & more air means more power. So in that respect, it isn't needless. I do acknowledge why four valve setups are pretty much the norm though - less complex, cheaper to design, better structural integrity, etc.

Yes, 5 valves/cyl involves more moving parts, but I have over 80k on my S6 and I have not experienced any maintenance issues at all.

S5 gets my vote - even w/4 valves =)

BenzW124 is clearly wrong yet again. Audi's RS4 has absolutely detroyed the Mercedes C55 AMG. The C55 is a pig that can't handle for its life, although that may change with the upcming C63 that is supposed to be a much better handler.

Audi RS = BMW M = Mercedes AMG >>>>>>>>> Lexus = Infiniti

GermanNut, I would love to participate in this debate. However, I do not speak German, thus I can't read the article! Does autozeitung.de have an English-language website?

M = RS > AMG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>infiniti >>>>>>lexus.

Just kidding.........LEXUS.

GermanNut, you're a trip with your backhanded "compliments" of BMW. You sound like the Audi is a Rolls Royce and the BMW is a Kia. Incidentally you don't have to get the Audi for the convenience of all-wheel drive, there's the 335xi Coupe as well, which is a hair quicker than the 335i Coupe that MOST sources indicate is as quick or quicker than the S5. And about $11k less expensive.

Uhh, the 335xi isn't out yet and hasn't even been confirmed by BMW. So how do you know it will be faster than the 335i? Why would it EVER be faster than the 335i? In case you didn't know, AWD cars are HEAVIER than RWD cars. This means that an AWD car with the same engine as a RWD car will be slower. S5 is faster than 335i, which is faster than 335xi, sorry.

And I know you like to think that the 335i is faster than the S5, but only the S5's slowest time is slower than the 335i's fastest time. The S5 is DESIGNED to be faster than the 335i, and it is. You shouldn't be ashamed to say so- the cars are not direct competitors.

S4 and GermanNut, BMW has definitely confirmed the 335xi Coupe, dealers are taking orders for them now for October delivery. BMW also states the 335xi Coupe 0-60 time is 0.1 seconds quicker than the 335i Coupe with manual, 0.2 seconds quicker with the automatic. And pretty much every test has the 335i doing 0-60 in 4.8-5.0 seconds, even Edmunds got 4.8 and they're notoriously slow (they got 4.7 out of an RS4). Most of the S5 tests are dead even with those figures, though there seems to be more fluctuation with the S5 results (aka there's a broader spread with the S5 results than there is with the 335i).

As for why the 335xi will be faster, GermanNut, while calling me a moron for actually knowing what the hell I'm talking about you actually got it right. It IS a traction issue, you can't launch the 335i hard without spinning tires or triggering the DSC. You might want to keep the personal attacks to yourself unless you're actually right, it just makes you look foolish. But then I do enjoy watching you make yourself look like a fool.

sorry GermanNut, I gave you credit for something you didn't deserve, you're not the one that pointed out the traction issue being the reason for the 335xi being quicker than the 335i. So you were just an idiot all the way around.

amazinBimmer with yet another cCOMPLETELY off-topic response because he can't come up with anything to say the BMW was the better car here.

JRob is a moron. The 335xi coupe is not faster than the regular 335i coupe.

AWD adds weight to cars which slows down acceleration for BMW because they don't engineer their cars from the start with AWD in mind. They design their cars based on a RWD platform and when they add weighht in the form of Xi it slows down acceleration.

The 328xi coupe is much slower than the regular 328i RWD coupe.

Why do you think the 335Xi will be quicker than the 335i coupe.

I know, what was he thinking when he said the 335xi will be quicker than the regular 335i? AWD cars are always heavier than their 2WD equivalents.

Take a look at BMW stats on the 335i -vs- 335xi and 535i -vs=535xi the XI are faster by .01 of a second. information gather from both brochure and website.

Doesn't make since to me either unless its a traction issue.

Yes it is true that the AWD brings the weight penalty to play, however is also worth mentioning that the weight penalty also brings additional benefits in the terms of traction.
Because you have increase the force acting downwards on the tires, you will also improve the traction between the tires and the ground which aids performance- formula 1 cars achieve this with aerodynamics downforce.
The other benefit that AWD system brings to the table is the ability to distribute the torque between all tires, thus reducing the wastage due to excess torque at the wheels during launch.
So if the sum the weight penalty with the benefits of improved surface traction and torque splitting, you may see improvements in low speed performance numbers if there is enough torque.

Wish I can edit my post to correct the typo etc...

cocnur o the the etditing

S4 and GermanNut... surprise surprise, I was right. Actually I don't care if GermanNut acknowledges that since his opinion is worthless but S4, I hope you'll listen next time.

True but it is quite possible due to the extra AWD traction that the car may be quicker to at most 60mph, but will fall behind its RWD counterpart after that. Still I have to agree with the assumption that it will be slower.

amazinBimmer why don't you talk cars here instead of taking useless insult shots at people who are wealthier than you and drive a better lineup of your favorite brand of cars than you do. Heheh.......

Okay, so it will go from 0-60 in five seconds flat (still). I love the 335i, but I'm sick of BMW fans on this site claiming it's quicker than the S5, because it isn't. The 335xi won't change that, but it will put up a good fight.

and we're sick of Audi fans ignoring the fact that the 335i has been quicker than the S5 in the majority of tests, and the 335xi WILL BE QUICKER than the 335i. The figures are extremely close though, in real world driving I'm sure the S5, 335i, and 335xi are plenty fast and it'll be a drivers race.

"...and we're sick of Audi fans ignoring the fact that the 335i has been quicker than the S5 in the majority of tests..."

Give me more than one test where the 335i coupe was COMPARED to the S5, and the 335i was faster. I dare you. I only know of ONE. I can't believe you won't admit that the S5 is faster! THINK ABOUT IT: 354hp V8 in a car that's only 60lbs heavier than another that has a 300hp six. THE V8 CAR WILL BE FASTER. And it is! It's time for you to wake up! The 335i was not designed to be faster than the S5, so it isn't, but it's not a slower car and I definitely respect it! It's my favorite non-M Bimmer. But you just don't respect the S5 and its obvious speed advantage, so I can't value your opinion.

Let me put it more clearly to you: the 335i's fastest time, EVER, has been recorded at 4.8 seconds. The S5's fastest is 4.5, but there haven't been as many tests yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it recorded slightly lower occasionally.

S4 I expected more from you, you're disappointing me by having to ask why the performance is so similar. It's pretty common knowledge that the "300hp" in the 335i is not really 300hp. In fact in the most recent magazine comparison of the "300hp" 335i and 330hp G37 both cars were dynoed, and they were making IDENTICAL horsepower. Here's the kicker -- the BMW had a 78lb-ft advantage in torque. What does that mean comapred to the Audi? That the 335i is really producing 330hp (still slightly behind the Audi) and 340+ lb-ft (not behind). HOLY CRAP, I wonder how the performance could be so similar? Yeah, that's why.

I don't even care that much about speed since both cars are very quick. I'm a bigger fan of the handling aspect, and in that regard the 335i is better. I could technically wait for a 135i, which will likely smoke both of these vehicles and save $25k to boot (well, $25k off the Audi, about $12k off the 335i), but I like the looks and interiors better in these two so I'll pony up the $$$.

Seriously, the inability on here for people to be even REMOTELY open minded about other cars borders on the insane.

I never asked about the performance, and I already knew those things.

But where did you hear any torque figures? I don't think so.

"Seriously, the inability on here for people to be even REMOTELY open minded about other cars borders on the insane."

I feel the same way. Like I said, the 335i and S5 are both hugely desirable vehicles and I would enjoy owning either. It seems like YOU are the one who can't admit that the S5 is faster (or any good at all, for that matter). It just is! There's nothing to be open-minded about; it's a fact.

I'll show you again-

Audi S5 fastest 0-60 time: 4.5 sec

BMW 335i fastest 0-60 time: 4.8 sec

Seeing as in germany the 135i is only 5k cheaper as the 335i coupe, i doubt it will be 12k cheaper in the US.

e90335i how is the 335xi coupe faster than the 335i RWD coupe when all previous BMW xi cars have been slower than their RWD counterparts.

I don't believe your claim....

and you'd be totally, 100% wrong in this case. But then we're used to that already.

S5 much faster this time.

The S5 is much prettier, and nicer inside, but at the price difference I would be driving the slow 335i convertible.

Why? The 335i convertible is this price with a few options, and the S5 is just a sexier car. Coupes have always looked better than convertibles, and I say this as a convertible owner.

Top going down always beats a sunroof. As a convertible owner, you know there is nothing better than a great car with the top down on a warm summer night.

I like that 335 coupe, my choice, the lines of the A5 is totally wrong from b pillar and back. It looks so old to me,where the 3 looks nice and modern. I dont care which one is fastest, and i think that the A5 should be tested against the M3 since they both got V8, and both are from the sports department of the manufactur.

So here it is again, 335i vs S5. well I don't think that Audi really introduced the S5 to compete against the 335i/M3. And reading the international press, it seems that a very few magazines got it, Motive seemed to get it. The A5/S5 fits more between the 3er and the 6er. For some a 3er is too boy-racer and the 6er is either too big, too expensive, too GT cruiser or just too ugly. So I think Audi chose to get right in between, that will make the S5 a little bit of a GT cruiser and a little bit of a sport car but with the empahasis on luxury and as SOCAL says the S5 will be more exclusive...

As far as the few thinking that the x-drive from BMW can compete with the quattro system, let me once again, as other posted that link before, remind you of this demonstration, that will inform you of the superiority of the quattro system:
enjoy and learn...for once:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zfKRdgoRo4

not sure why multiple journalists have compared the 335i to the S5. apples to apples would be the A5 (especially in term of price). S is supposed to match up against M cars.

But when you really want "apples-to-apples," you need a car with similar performance. Neither the A5 nor the S5 are well-matched to the 335i, so they just choose the faster Audi, and I'd rather read reviews of the S5 (the one I'd more likely buy) than the A5.

BMW 335i number #1, also audi has no chance catching up to BMW and Mercedes.

enthusiast,

I agree with you, but I think that Audi changed is path and now RS are going to go head to head with the M's. The RS6 is coming as usual within the last 2 years of the model's life, but the fact that they already announced the RS5 and the TT-RS makes me think that they took the "rule book" and threw it out of the window... and Rs should come within the FIRST 2 years of the model's life, same for the next RS4...
as they say, "wait and see"

and Larry,
like david989 and a few others fanboys, when making a statement it would be very kind of you to elaborate and bring proof or documentation supporting your blunt statements...
No offense.

I feel GermanNut is slamming the 3-series interior a little to hard, it's not as bad as he says it is. Fine it's not the Audi interior but it looks much better in reality than in pictures, and IMO the interior door design & mood lighting in the Bimmer have on up on the Audi.

Also I wouldn't say the S5 is more exotic when compared to the 335ci at all, I'd say it's more elegant, muscular, & cleaner looking than the Bimmer.

Both cars look great, both cars are some of their companies’ best products, overall I'd take the S5.

MunichRob,

I agree with you, the interior is not as bad as some people seem to portray it.
For someone like me, I like simple designs with less clatter. So in terms of interior design, I like the spartan approach of BMW.
MY preference doesn't imply that the interior of the 335i is better than the S5- it just suit me.
So, in a find it quite comedic when there is a debate about which is better- it is all based on the underlying design approach which is quite subjective if you ask me.
It is in a way analagous to the abstract form of art- some people find it appealing and some people don't. In some cases it is not obvious till the artist explains it to you.

wow. i dont think ive ever seen a time like this here where there are this many people who now prefer the audi over bmw. the majority preference is no longer as clear before.

i like the s5. in a side by side comparison, it looks much more aggressive and even more future like than the 335 despite bmw's intention of to create futuristic look in all its designs. for me:

rs5 > m3 > s5 > 335i coupe

EXACTLY!!! The end of your post is just right! THAT's how Audi's cars are aligned right now:

RS Audi > M BMW > S Audi > Standard BMW > Standard Audi

Why do they always seem to avoid BMW?

They don't. They just revel in being different. That's how Audi is. I love their image.

it basically doesn't really matter if the 335i isn't as fast as the s5, they not direct competitors anyway.
335i handles better, s5 drives faster. thats the different, and thats why bmw and audi are different.
both good car, i prefer the exterior of the 335, and interior of the s5.

Maybe S4 is right and the Audi really is the cure for cancer, AIDS, and world hunger. In that case I'll wait a year and buy a one year old S5 for half price.

You don't get me at all. I love BMWs AND Audis. I'll probably get an Audi coupe or sedan as my fall/winter car, and an M3 convertible to replace the S4.

But I'm just tired of arguing with you guys, when you insist the 335i is faster than the S5. It just isn't! Maybe two magazines have achieved the 335i's fastest time, which happens to be faster than one of the S5's slower times. But that doesn't say much at all. The S5 is more expensive for a reason: it is faster, more luxurious, more exclusive and more beautiful. I think it's a bargain. They could've priced it at $70K... I know Mercedes would've. The BMW is, too.

The S Audi's never competed with the M models. It's always been how it currently is.

1994 - Audi RS2 315hp > BMW M3 280hp > Audi S2 230hp
2000 - Audi RS4 380hp > BMW M3 320hp > Audi S4 265hp
2005 - Audi RS4 420hp > BMW M3 343hp > Audi S4 344hp
2007 - Audi RS4 420hp > BMW M3 420hp > Audi S5 354hp

Larry I hate to break up your BMW and Mercedes party, but Audi is on pace to outsell Mercedes-Benz and move into second place in worldwide sales by premium auto manufacturers behind BMW and ahead of Mercedes by the end of this year.

Mercedes brand is currently outselling Audi 669,000 vs. audi 590,000 I don't know where you get your facts, in fact Mercedes outsold Audi by 240,000 last year , I can post the articles.

BMW WON AGAIN!

Larry trying to say that Mercedes brand has sold 669,000 cars this year. LOL, Mercedes sold 575,000 vehicles in the first six months of 2007 and Audi sold 509,000, but the trick is Audi is on track to grow much faster than Mercedes to close out the year.

Can't take the heat from Audi as they are about to surpass Mercedes.

I hate to inflate your ego but get ready for Audi's RS division to really bring the heat in terms of horsepower and performance to BMW's M and Mercedes AMG.

I think you mean "deflate" your ego? LOL.

I like both cars!S5 is more exclusive but 335 is a bit better value! Hard to choose!

S5 is more exclusive due to Audi not selling as many ... Both are nice cars. I am just suprised to read about how poorly the S5 handles. A V8 will typically out perform a 6 cyl .. These cars are so close in regards to performance it is crazy. Here is the thing, the 335 coupe with the new Aero Sports package, 19" wheels and a chip will blow the doors off the S5 and still be less expensive. I would have thought that Audi would have had a better suspension set up for the S5, than what they did. ALso, would have thought Audi would have been more competitive with the regular A5. If Audi, didnt want the S5 to compete with the 335 coupe, then why did they design the regular A5 with the pathetic 6 cyl engine again. The A5 is so slow compared to the 335, but it is the same price ...huh? Overall, I like the direction that Audi went with building the A5, but I think they missed the boat on this one.

why do I get de boosted my facts are right. Autospies does not use facts?

yes, deflate was correct S4cabriofoxone. Sorry for that, my mistake.

Larry you get boosted for a few reasons. You do not appreciate Audi as a car company, you don't appreciate Audi as a brand and you make sure you post lies and false claims with no factual evidence in your attempt to hurt Audi's image and perception on this website.

Autospies is a car enthusiast website. It has been destroyed by fanboys, but we as members must make sure that what is posted on here is all factually correct information that can be verified.

You can think BMW and Mercedes are amazing. That is fine. I think they are great as well. Hell, I owned 3 Mercedes at one time and have owned more than 6 BMWs What you can't do is discount Audi when it is likely within this year alone they will surpass Mercedes and they are clearly a worldwide contender in the sales race in the same premium luxury segment that BMW and Mercedes operate in.

Audi is a major player in Europe. They outsell BMW in Germany the home country for all 3 manufacturers. Audi is clearly the #1 premium auto manufacturer in China. China is going to become the biggest car market in the world ahead of the United States by 2015 and likely sooner because with over 1 billion people (around 1.2-1.3 billion) they will have a much higher demand for cars than the 300 million population U.S.

The S5 really isn't in the same category as the 335i. It'll cost around $50K, which isn't necessarily attainable for someone shopping in the mid-$30's or even reaching to $40K. Why isn't the S5 considered to be in the M3 class??

The Audi S5 and BMW 335I compete with each other, just like the RS5 will with the M3. Performance numbers are very similar between the S5 and 335i but the S5 is a nicer car which is why it costs more. Audi does a better job packaging the whole car with all the tech. goodies. I think you are assuming everyone is price shopping these 2 cars to the lowest price point. This is not where Audi chose to position the S5. Better looking (subjective I know, but it sure seems a lot of people gree with this), better interior materials, more technology packaged into it, and quattro make it more upscale. Price is not always the driving the decision making process, and Audi trumps BMW in this with the new S5. If price was the driving factor we all would not be talking about the S5 vs. 335i. It would be more like the STI vs. Evo.

The S5 looks good but to pay $11K more for the S5 over the 335i. No way, with the Bimmer comes prestige and in my opinion the 335i looks better car. And one can make it look even better with 19" wheels, areo package and a EVOtech ECU upgrade all for a lot less than $11K. The S5 will not out sell 335i.

You're correct in the States BMW and MB are considered the most prestiges. With MB taking the top spot. And here in States these two sell alot of cars. Which leads to their hefty profit margins. Back to the Audi S5. I'm still not convinced the S5 was a good move for Audi. The S5 is priced between the 335i ($40K) and the 650i ($70K). But the 335i slightly out performs the S5. But the S5 has way better interior. If I wanted a car between $40K and $70K I'd buy an M3 ($55K) not the S5. My guess is the RS5 will cost $70K to counter M3 sells. And BMW will then introduce M3 CSL too counter the RS5. So at the end of day BMW will not loss any ground to Audi and I believe BMW will remain the #1 luxury car manufacturer in the world.

In a way that is like saying one should not pay more for a Audi or a BMW because one could get a Mustang that will put up similar numbers and cost thousands less. You are assuming the 335i is on par with the S5. In performance numbers it is, in total package it's not. Looks, Technology, and a lot of people would say the "Bimmer" has less prestige than the Audi. It seems only in America prople think Audi is a lesser car. In all other parts of the world they are on par with Merc and BMW and to suggest different shows incredible ignorance. I believe Audi out sells both premium manufacturers in their Homeland even. I personally think Audi has understated themselves way too long in the States and have done a pretty horrible job marketing itself.......but that is for a different time and place. The 335i is an incredible car, it's just that you can get an even nice in the S5.

S5 is really nice. But for the huge price premium, it had better be. For $1200 you could get a Vishnu proceed on the 335i which would make it destroy an M3, S5, RS5, you name it. Approaching 400 HP and 400 torque is no joke. I hope the new S5 platform and 4wd is a vast improvement over prior Audi cars, as my 2005 A4 (which I drove 20k miles) was so front heavy and the 4wd really made the driving dynamics far below the level of BMW. Nice car but in no way was it a driver's car.

Its a toss up, however the 335 being turbo, one can easily spend 400 bucks to chip it and get another 30-40hp, without compromising the handling or driving characteristics of the vehicle, keeping it as close as possible to OEM as possible. So what do you want RWD or AWD? Turbo or no? And who's flag do you wave? Audi or BMW?

Perhaps the BMW is a better performer at the limits on a track than the Audi. I spend very little time at the limits, so for enhanced enjoyment most of the time, I'd pick the Audi. And this is coming from a guy with 3 BMWs in his garage (and I like 'em all).

BMW and Mercedes agree on one thing: The highest performing cars are not, and should not be AWD. You don't see an "M" xi, or an AMG 4matic. Audi really hoses themselves by forcing Quattro on everything.

There may be a time when the horsepower race will force AWD, but we're a long ways away from that. In the mean time, the high end performance cars will (and should) lean heavily towards rear-wheel-drive.