610HP? The Next Audi RS6 May Leave The M5 in the Rearview Mirror

If this information is correct, The already great Audi RS6 has officially stepped their game up and set the standard high for all the "other" automakers. The RS6 is legendary, and Put audi racing on the road and map. This car is no exception to excellence in and out. RS6 will make history, and stay up on top of its league. I cant wait to see the official revealing.

Sounds like BMW's new found turbo technology may have to find its way to their v10.

i dont think bmw will turbo there M cars. ever

bmwpower- yes they will stay in 2nd place with no turbos

There has never been and there will never be a turbo M-car.

People place too much emphasis on horsepower. I'm sure the RS6 will be brutally fast but 600 hp doesn't automatically make a good car.

Should be a beast.

why would a company market 571hp when true output is 610hp? what's the point of that?

Actually Punja, this is a stragedy that was very useful with the 335. BMW claims that the output for this car to be 300hp but dyno tests have read outputs of atleast 335hp.

It's a very good idea punjabi. Any business person knows that consumers love it when you under-promise and over-deliver. It makes people feel like they're getting more than what they paid for. It also makes the car's performance seem more impressive. Think about it: if you buy a car with 300 advertised horses and it ends up running like it has 350, then your car is overacheiving (from your perspective) and you are delighted and more impressed by the car.

punjab- a good exaple is the A4 2.0T

the real hp is about 220 but they say 200

The RS4 and RS6 both sound great...but I just can't get past that the Audi 4 and 6 series look like a last-generation Passat.

I hope Audi changes its design language for these sedans soon, so they can break away visually from their cheaper VW relatives.

IMO, the new TT and R8 have done a great job of creating new styles that match their performance and prices.

It's too easy to make horsepower, That's not a challenge." (Richter, VP of M-development at BMW).

BMW is not focused on winning the peak hosepower race.

And this is why a BMW 335i whips through a track faster than an Audi RS4, with LESS horsepower!

RAW peak horsepower numbers are interesting, but they are only one piece of the puzzle.

When this turbocharged V10 Audi can make it though the Nurburbring faster than the naturally aspired V10 M5, then we'll have something to chat about.

Point taken! This is so true, alot of people on this site based on some of the post i have read thus far seem to believe that more horspower is always the answer. WRONG!!!!!!!!!!

Dont believe, take the 911 on a track vs some of its competitors. see what happens.

thats the truth...
i feel you man.

Is going to be pretty easy since the RS4 is allready faster then the M5 and just as fast as the M6 on the Nurburgring.

http://www.sportauto-online.de/aktuell_U_sport/tuning_-_zubehoer/hxcms_article_%20%20502725_14653.hbs

what track? no one that had the money would get a 335 over a RS4

if hp didn't matter you would not see BMW come out with the 550 right after the A6 3.2

or change the hp in the 325 to the 328 right after the A4 came out with the 2.0T

and Audi comes out with the new A8 with more hp after that the 745 became the 750

all these cars have about 10 more hp then the Audi because hp dosen't matter

the RS4 came out and right away the M3 is designed to have about the same hp

yea bmw dosen't car about hp

Good point. But actually you are wrong. You can't just compare the M-division with quattro GmbH. Or AMG for that matter. All 3 have a different philosophy and approach to high-performance saloons. M-cars are basically track cars with a boot, AMGs are Autobahn stormers and S models fit in the middle. RS models are just S models + 45 % better in every way.

I know it's a bit simplistic but that is the bottom line.

"What Track" come on, be a big boy, dont ask rhetorical questions now dr evil. i'm in a good mood today so i'll be nice and sweet.

You have somehow turned this into a audi vs bmw hp battle, but sorry to tell you bud, you totally missed the point.
i'll repreat for you once again, HP is not the sole factor that makes one car better than the rest. It would be totally stupid for me to make that assumption based on that fact alone.

Companies must increase HP based on their competitiion and market demands, lets face it. That's what the Ads are selling and people are buying into it. So, you have to give the consumer what they want.

But dont worry, in a couple of years alot of this power war will die out for more eco friendly units. Enjoy the ride.

Needless to say, BMW and some other manufactures can easily build cars that push some astounding hp numbers but why? whats are you trying to prove, whats the ROI?

e39 but your comment has an underlying attitude that BMW is better because they are better then hp

I agree that HP is not everthing / look at the ricerockets. who cars if you can buy a subaru with 10,000 hp it is still a subaru

I just think it is funny the BMW fans are telling me that hp is not important and cars like the M5 is better because of some "majic feel" or whatever your arguement is

Actually, you are quite wrong about your hp comment. Car companies look to compare hp/weight ratios and not just hp. Typically a quattro drive Audi will be (or has historically been) heavier then the BMWs or MBs, thus Audi should be looking at the ratio of hp/weight rather than purely hp. So, if to you it seems that Audi is focused on only hp, than you don't know much about cars. Having the most hp does not automatically make it a good car but it certainly does not make it a bad one. IMO, Audi's are already great cars. Add more hp and speed testing at the Ring and you've got an awesome car.

Iamevil homer, the 335i beat the RS4 at Virginia International Raceway.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/13173/the-lightning-lap-2007.html

See car and driver, august 2007. And don't take it personally. It's just cars.

moto- that is one test thats says that. does it say it was the same driver? Thats the most important thing about these tests. 2 diff drivers your gonna get 2 diff times. Put the same driver in both, and the RS4 will kill it on any track.

Not saying the 335i is a bad car, its awesome, just not on the same level as the RS4.

610 horsepower. Can you say goodbye BMW M5!


Who would want to waste $90K on a techno overkill, SMG tranny plagued BMW M5 when that car has already lost to an Audi RS4 which has 80 fewer horsepower. Not to mention it is a cheap offering from BMW. In fact, the E63 AMG and Audi RS6 will both be more expensive cars than the M5.

This is one of the most retarded post i've seen in a while. Congrats on your achievement.

you cant really compare m5 with the RS4...
they not in the same category.

The M5 is brilliant. Sure it has its flaws like SMG in daily driving but when pushed hard on a track it is still the best handling by far.

The most challenging part will be putting all that power to the ground, and controlling it.

I believe quattro is the answer there.

The BMW M5 can't even clear 8 minutes on the Ring.

The new RS6 with Quattro AWD for excellent traction to handle all that horsepower coupled with weight-saving materials such as carbon-fiber and a reworked chassis spell doom for BMW both in the straight-line stakes and also around the Ring.

If the BMW M5 can manage a sad 8:04 at the Nurburgring with 100 fewer horsepower, about the same weight as the RS6, and a lack of Quattro AWD for traction there is simply no doubting this RS6 will out-accelerate and out-track the cheap and techno-screwed BMW M5.

GermanNut how do you know the RS6 will weigh the same as an M5, I'm not disputing the M5 will be faster than the RS6, but I would assume & expect it to weigh around 100-200lbs more than the M5.

The S6 weighs more than the M5 already, what do you think will happen when it gets out-fitted with an even bigger engine.

BTW the RS4 is lighter & therefore more nimble than the M5, plus it has the advantage of AWD which gives it the advantage, what do you expect. However I'd like to see the new M3's "Ring" numbers, then we'll talk.

You may not be a crazy fan-boy, but you tend to ramble on after the discovery of good Audi news.

munich- the RS6 will have less lbs

the S4 is much heaver then the RS4

Iamevil- Really?

Audi RS4 Curb Weight MT: 3957
Audi S4 Curb Weight MT: 3869

According to Euro specs the RS4 is 3780LBS les then the 3830lbs of the S$

Seems to be conflicting info all over the internet. I got mine from Yahoo Autos

Those numbers are also on the Audi USA site

Most challenging part Admiral....I think you mean easiest part. Its called Quattro AWD.

I completely forgot about that.
Thanks for pointing it out.

Since we're bitching about M wants. They should put that M derived V12 in a M7... what's keeping them. Audi has an S8, and Mercedes S65.

Jeffy... they won't make an M7 because the M philosophy isn't about huge horsepower (that's what AMG is for) It's about an overall driving package with excellent handling balance. The 7 series is simply too large and heavy to live up to the M philosophy. People have been asking for an M7 for years, and BMW has no intention of building one. That being said however, consumer demand and AMG-envy may force BMW's hand.

bmw fanboys

when the 2003 RS6 was out we heard how the NEW M5 will have more hp and kick the RS6s but now the the RS6 will be the new car hp dosen't matter

BMW does not make M versions of existing engines. All of the M engine are handbuilt and custom made for a car/platform.

There is already an Alpina B7. No need for a M7

The Alpina is definitely NOT the equivalent of an M7!

It leans much more toward AMG than M. Alpina is a class of its own. Brilliant cars. And they still have some of the best leathers interiors I have ever experienced.

Try reading the lines, not your fabricated text between them.

I never said the Alpina B7 is the equivalent of what might be a M7, I said BMW is content at the moment having the B7 as their sporty version of the 760i.

audi imitation sincerest form of bmw flattery. If audi was worth a damn they would not have to depend on VW.

larry- that was a stupid comment

Audi is the one profitable part of VW and Audi is owned by VW not dependent on them

When is this going to stop? What is the limit here?
610 hp for a station wagon or family sedan is just too much. I mean....even an Accord and Camry are nudging 300 hp (275 hp)now and this is just getting to be ridiculous. I love fast cars and I love racing....but this is too much. Are these people in a race to see who will consume the remaining oil reserves the fastest or most effectively? All these cars barely give 8-10 mpg when driven like that and I dont care how well the car is engineered....to move 3500 - 4000+ lbs, the car will take up a lot of fuel and not in a good way. Now a Porsche Cayenne is over 500 hp.....can you beat that???? It's a SUV for God's sake!!
Speaking of SUV's....have people noticed how low they are now-a-days?? They are not really SUV's .... they are more like really badly designed cars with really bad aerodynamics.....just one big and tall block and piece of furniture being hurled against the wind resistance with the help of an engine at the back.

liberal guilt

you got to love it

i think enough is the rebaged VW / Audi (Bugatti) 1001 hp

they needed the extra one hp for good measure

Funny your lying again Larry.

Audi is worth a damn, In fact their annual percentage growth is more than double BMWs and they are going to outsell Mercedes-Benz either this year or next in worldwide sales to become the second best selling premium luxury marque in the world.

MunichRob your a real dummy. The Audi RS4 weighs less than the current BMW M3.

Audi "S" models may have sport suspensiions, chassis, interior etc... but they do not employ weight saving technology nearly to the point of the RS lineup.

Look for the RS6 to weigh just around the same as the BMW M5 with 100 more horsepower and better traction for faster initial acceleration.

The M5 is a real junky car. Hell it can't even win against an Audi RS4.

BMW is getting outBMWed by Audi. This is hilarious. First the RS4 with its crushing 420 horsepower, but then the E46 version was still razor sharp.

Now BMW screws up the M3 royally and whoala the RS4 leaps on top when it was supposed to be the other way around.

BMW screwed this M5 up just as nicely and now the RS6 is going to increase the horsepower to unforeseen levels.

Audi is on a tear.

Bring on the RS5 with 470 horsepower, the R8 with 500 horespower V10 and the Q7 V12 TDI.

apparently, the horsepower isn't everything...

I'm a real "dummy?" Good one, you sound like a foreign pre-school kid looking for the right words to tear me up.

I might not know every nook & cranny of Audi as you do, but I do know that to date that M5 you call a piece of junk is faster than any production Audi. Not to mention everyone knows that it would be another masterpiece M5 if it weren’t for the SMG tranny.

Also considering Audi goes all out on their RS, space-frame weight saving technology, I find it possible for them to match or reduce the weight of the RS6 when compared to the S6 by about 150lbs at the most.

So the S6 weighs about 20lbs under 4500lbs minus another 150lbs gives you 4330lbs. The M5 weighs 4100lbs at the most...Now explain to me again how the RS6 will weigh the same as an M5 you Nut.

"BMW screws up the M3 royally", stop spewing garbage, you don't even know what you're talking about. The new M3 is an epic car, and is is a significant leap forward from the e46.

Read these reviews before you continue to embarass yourself on a public forum:
http://evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/209929/bmw_m3.html
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75673&highlight=top+gear

The next RS6 should be a stunning piece of engineering. Looks like Audi is getting even more serious with their RS performance line. Great work.

bmw will unleash the 6.0 v12 beast they had in the mclaren F1 in there next M5

holding my breath hpppppp...

porsche911- yours is the only worthwhile comment on this topic. Most of these high horsepower freaks yapping on and on here- have little knowledge of either how to drive, or what horsepower really means. Worst of all, they all claim to be ENTHUSIASTS with a capital E.
Yes its sad but true, most of the models here now resemble fat, obese lumps of cholestrol laden metal, with neither the elegance, nor the verve (not to mention character) of my 1962 Porsche 356, that at 2200lbs fuelled weight and with 132bhp, still runs rings around the 400 bhp lardmobiles I see all the time in Santa Barbara.
I don't include your 911 in this lardo-meter list- its a fine machine whose future iterations hopefully never cross the 3500 lb threshold.

This is rubbish. The RS6 will have 579 DIN HP (the only real mesure). That is a fact.

There were some rumors about an RS6 Plus with 610-630hp.

that is also a photoshop sorry you don't like the picture

That would be nice!

People, please don't argue like a bunch of kids! Everyone has it's own opinion!

I'd be perfectly happy with Audi's new 500 h.p. V-12 diesel.

And where is that engine technology in the Audi cars ...??!!! Anyone can take a 200 HP V8 (for ex.), throw in one or two supechargers and end up with a let's say 300 HP V8. Nice... and easy... Why are they using superchargers and/or turbos on gas engines ? The one and only well known feature on an Audi car is Quattro. Let's leave it there...

Just like the RS4 which gets 100hp/l N/a?
Or the 335i which uses turbo's to get 300+ hp?

i nominate this as the dumbest comment of the post

there are not that many stupid people in the wrold are there? or does amaizingidiot have 6 screennames?

+1 for the dumbest post

M3 V8 vs 4-door RS4 review wtih acceleration times:

A dutch carmag tested m3 v8 vs rs4 4-door.

Acceleration times:
RS4 M3
0 - 20km/h: 0.8s 0.5s
0 - 40km/h: 1.7s 1.6s
0 - 60km/h: 2.5s 2.4s
0 - 80km/h: 3.8s 3.7s
0 - 100km/h: 5.1s 4.8s
0 - 120km/h: 6.8s 6.5s
0 - 140km/h: 8.6s 8.3s
0 - 160km/h: 11.0s 10.2s
0 - 180km/h: 13.8s 13.1s
0 - 200km/h: 17.2s 16.0s

100-200 in 3th&4th: 12.1s 11.2s
100-200 in 4th: 13.2s 14.0s
100-200 in 5th: 16.0s 16.6s
100-200 in 6th: 20.8s 20.7s

Braking:
100-0 in: 36.4m 33.8m
200-0 in: 148.1m 141.9m

I knew it! Well at least I felt it. Sort of. When I tested the new M3 I was staggered by its acceleration up to 200 kmh and more. I knew it felt faster than the RS4. Mind you the M3 is only 1.2-1.6 seconds slower to 200 kmh than an M5!

These numbers look wrong. Car & Driver just got 4.4 seconds with an M3 0-60 and they said those numbers would have been better if they had better conditions.

Also, last month's Lightening Lap at Virginia had the RS4 SPANKED by a 335 around the track.

Will the M3 do better than a 335? Absolutely, which delivers even a bigger spanking to that RS4.

The M5 is in a different category than the RS4. It's a bigger car! Compare the RS6 to the M5.

that is the worst RS4 numbers i have seen in any report

did they use desiel fuel in the rs4?

by far the worst numbers i have ever seen for the RS4.
I have never seen higher then 4.7, when they actually test it.

I call Bullshit

BTW GermanNut I'm still waiting for that answer, you've been awfully quiet since my last question.

Well MunichRob, we know Audi employs far more weight saving technology on their RS models than their S models.

The RS4 weighs less than the M3. The Audi RS6 will obviously be heavier than an M5 but only by an insignificant amount that will obviousy not make a difference.

I don't care if the car weighs 500 pounds more than the M5, (which it won't) the RS6 with at least another 70 horsepower and god knows how much more torque with Quattro AWD to send that torque to the wheels and you know where that leaves the M5.

Please BMW royally screwed the M5 and they are about to face the wrath of Audi RS.

They did not royally screw up the M5, they screwed up the transmissions from an everyday use point of view, fine. Also I'll agree to say they messed up the styling on the whole 5-series line.

That's not to say the M5 is not a great track car because for one it is, & secondly it's still the top-performing mid-size in this class & has been since it's introduction.

Now Audi's RS6 is going to be the top athlete until BMW updates the current M5's engine, or releases the next-generation M5; which we are all hoping to clearly regain the M5's title as the E39 & it's predecessors once did.

The keyword is hoping. What was once clear to enthusiasts is not so clear anymore. BMW used to be the clear leader, far and away the best car and everything else just failed miserably when trying to compete for driving dynamics and overall appeal.

Look at the RS4. We were all "expecting" the BMW M3 to be the king, but the RS4 proved too much for BMW to conquer. The horsepower was much greater, the dynamics vastly improved over the ordinary S4 and all of the sudden we had an Audi that was amazing to drive.

What in the hell do you think will happen with the RS6, MunichRob? This is not just having history repeat itself. Audi changed history with the RS4 and the R8 proves that Audi has not confused its succesful RS4 formula and diluted it. In fact, the R8 is an amazing car that BenzW124 even praises.

Face it the RS division knows how to provide driving dynamic thrills. We saw it with the RS4, we see it even more with the R8 and do you honestly think that the RS6 will fail?

The answer is no...the new benchmark is the Audi RS6 getting ready to smash the BMW M5 and E63 AMG just like the Audi RS4 has defeated the BMW M3 and C55, although those Benz AMG boys sure have something up their sleeve with the C63.

Did I ever say the RS6 wouldn't be the class leader? Definitely not. What I'm arguing is the fact that BMW's not necessarily screwing up, it's just that everyone else is finally starting to catch up.

Also you tell me to face the facts that Audi’s RS division “knows how to provide driving dynamic thrills,” I know this, I don’t dispute this, BMW has some serious competition on their hands lately, & so far I realize they have not taken the drastic steps to widen the gap back to previous lengths.

I wouldn't necessarily say the RS4 changed history, maybe the R8 (Which I totally agree is a master-piece) but not the RS4. We've seen a lighter, more nimble, but slower 335i out-run an RS4 on a track.

Also the RS4 (As great as it is) was unable to ever out-perform the M3 CSL, which costs about an extra 10 grand more than the RS4 as opposed to the E46 M3’s price difference of $18,000 cheaper. So one might argue that that’s the RS4’s true competition.

Yeah if you take price into account but ignore the fact the M3 CSL is a stripped-down, no a/c, no radio, no sunroof carbon-fiber loaded race car attempting to match a GT3 but failing terribly maybe then the RS4 and the M3 CSL are competitors.

Oh.. I forgot... all you RS4 guys... you were comparing the new RS4 with a 4 liters, v8 (4163 cc) engine to a SIX years old model M3 with a 3.2 liters, inline 6 (3246 cc) engine. Hmmm.... see more numbers here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/9846/comparison-test-review-audi-rs-4-quattro-vs-bmw-m3-vs-mercedes-benz-c55-amg-specs-page6.html

Yeah & in that comparison they give kudos to the M3 for being the sharpest driving tool out of the 3, even though the car was 5 years older than the new RS4 in this test.

The RS4 is the final pick due to its everyday road manners. In other words the M3 would be the true enthusiasts choice.

Articles like this make you wonder...in 2020 when we have the 1000 hp S800's, the 950 hp 780Li's and the 900 hp RRSS6's, will we all just be wearing racing helmet's to go down the street to the drug store? Emphatically, shouldn't everybody else on the road be doing so? - I'll have to buy a tank for my wife to drop off the kids to school.

First, Evil your previous sarcastic comment about BMW not caring about HP is true. Any car company does, and in this case with the trio competition (Benz,BMW,Audi) they are certainly more concerned more then ever. However with BMW they will not sacrifice the overall quality of the car to keep up in the HP running. So with your statement about the "RS4 came out and right away the M3 is designed to have about the same hp" I'm not sure where you've been the last umm 6-7 years? But BMW was due for a new model as the E46 faze had come to an end.

Now for your comments GermanNut, you state "Look at the RS4. We were all "expecting" the BMW M3 to be the king, but the RS4 proved too much for BMW to conquer. The horsepower was much greater, the dynamics vastly improved over the ordinary S4." I think you are also stuck in the same time era as Evil. You are comparing your newly (at the time) designed RS4 to BMW's 5-6 year old model. I would think over 6 years Audi would at least find a way to catch up and surpass its competitor with that given amount of time.

Then you stated BMW royally screwed the new M3 and maybe your not totally wrong, but look at the other end. Given 6 years of knowledge of the E46 M3 your crushing RS4 was still not able to beat the E46 M3 CSL. You want to talk about royal F up's, 6 YEARS!!! Now the next gen M3 has come. Its numbers show that it should out perform the 420 hp RS4.. And yet Audi still manages to Royally F up again with its 450hp next gen A4.. Audi managed to waste a whole new gen RS4 to come to possibly not even surpassing the new M3?

And Muchich the M5's SMG flaw as been fixed for some time now.. Late 06 M5's came with the 6-speed..

And finally as for the new RS6.. It seems as though it will be a great car. And with its projected numbers I don't see it having any problems surpassing the M5.. However keep in mind with the S6 having the same v10 motor as the RS6 but with added tuning and turbo the S6 produces 435hp.. By adding the same tuning and turbos to the v10 of the M5 don't you think BMW could achieve the same goals if not out perform the new RS6 since the N/A v10 has 500hp opposed to the 435hp of the S6.. humm sometimes makes me wish there were and M&M factory for M-power.. It’s as though Audi gets to make a pre-RS model (S models) then they get to make the real deal.. Maybe M-Power should have an M&M factory (phony M-Power) and when they finish they can have a second try and make the real thing.. Actually I think I just want some M&M's now lol.

Geez, just where are you going to use all that horsepower? Street racing... highly stupid and illegal. I'd wager not more than 3 reponders ever track their cars or even autox. My wimpy little Cayman S with only 295 hp might not beat these 2 ton behemoths to 60, but get on a track with a few curves or in an autox with a good driver and it will eat them up. Mazda has a philosophy (as does Porsche)... it's all about weight, and most of these cars are pigs with high HP. The fact is, BMW's M cars(and I've had a few) are no longer light weight, easy to drive cars. So many electronic options/permutations are available it makes one's head spin... which shift option, push the M button or not, cut the traction control (did I push the button twice or once and hold?); what's that light mean? Even the 911 is compromised beacuse of its rear weight bias and relies on really big tires to keep it in control. The AMG cars are street cars/bahn burners, what most folks really use. Sure they don't corner as well as an M3/6, but Benz drivers don't really care. They just want to hit the right pedal and go... and they do GO!

The RS4 is just a bit too heavy and not perfectly balanced (50/50)to offset the M3's fine tuned package. The RS4 has a nicer layout on interior (not better quality, just a better layout), but short of that, every section of E92 M3 is a step up.

Quicker, faster, more nimble, and a better engine.

Sorry, that's just how it is.