Hyundai Pushes Upscale Towards Lexus

I think this type of advertising is better when u already have or ready with the product/products.

Until then it's just a talk.

Hyundai what is your competitor for(or coming soon)
IS/IS-F
GS
LS
LX
GX

hyundai is hardly coming with Lexus ES rival(Genises) and they r looking to completly rival a well established brand(Lexus).
Very tough.

JUGNU

The Hyundai line up is lacking the breadth to Lexus as Lexus does to Mercedes.

Do all the people from Lexusville have the day off today? Too many articles related to Lexus and WAY too many people spreading the propaganda of Lexus. Do y'all have like secret handshakes and secret decoder rings?

"And Lexus will never outsell BMW and Mercedes Benz in the US" (circa 1990)

Simply put, what Lexus achieved in its life time NO car manufacturer did in history.

Lexus is truly superior to all of its competitors, it lacks the sporty feeling, but that's their recipe. MB and BMW are just names on rusty plates. They're horrible cars and even the Europeans would tell you that.

No one can match Lexus's craftsmanship!

I forgot to comment on this car. I think Hyundai is moving up and someday it will get to where Toyota is today. Good job Hyundai!

If this car is a rear wheel drive, I wouldn't mind driving it, and still pay half the price for other brands.

wow designer.
that's a hateful point of view.

bmw and mercedes make some wonderful cars. that's why they outsell lexus by more than 3 to 1. EACH.

The coming Hyundai genesis is on my shopping list. It has a powerful DOHC V-8 and RWD with LSD. It will be better than the Lexus LS, at least in value.

furthermore, we don't even know if the lexus brand even makes money. toyota does not disclose those financials. in fact, with the massive amount they spend on marketing, profits may not be that generous (for corporate that is..of course dealers make money).

If Toyota can do it, so can Hyundai!

You realize that in your own mind you think you are making good points, but alas you are not.

low coefficient of drag.
that's what i'm looking for in a car!

enthusiastx11...by a Toyota Prius then; their coef is lower than a corvette.

Yes, that's all that matters in a design, right.

Most Ferrari models have worse coefficients of drag than a Prius. Do I care?

That will be a tough road. Remember the Amati ? That was supposed to be Mazda's premium brand (known as the Xedos line in Europe). They even developed the Millenia, a vehicle with the sex appeal of a Miller cycle engine, all the toys as std eqpt - still a flop.

Nissan is still trying to catch up the w/the near luxo market by life supporting Infiniti, while Honda has clearly given up (much to my regret) with the last Acura RL. While Caddy made a semi-comeback to a runnerup position, Lincoln is set to die slowly.

Toyota is making an excellent push with the Lexus Hybrid line, but I wonder what will happen when this fad goes away along with the aging Rx.

Jaguar is losing $800,000,000 a year, or subsidizing each of its cars manufactured and sold on average by $63,000...

Volkswagen spends $9,3M on each Bugatti Veyrons they sell for $1,6M; while parent company Porsche lost about $135,000 on every Carrera GTs sold.

Hyundai, best of luck - you may underestimate the road ahead.

Very very nice, astute post.

1. Infiniti is certainly not on life support. They are making excellent new products and are on par with Lexus as a potential global player.

2. You don't think the RX350 will be redesigned? I'm pretty sure the new model will be at the auto show next year- and if Toyota has its way (which it does), there will definitely be a hybrid version, fad or not. I don't advocate hybrids but whatever.

3. If you think the new Jags are still bad then you're just ignorant, in the rawest sense of the word. The XJ is an underestimated luxo sedan that has superb handling as well as impressive gas mileage. I saw a 2007 model today (the best year- not the one we have now, with the bodykit), and it still looks gorgeous. Then there are the XK and XF, which I don't have to explain.

4. VW makes a ton of money with Audi, so the point about the extremely low-production Veyron is irrelevant.

5. So Porsche lost money on the Carrera GT; that doesn't stop them from making the most profit per vehicle in the entire auto industry.

Does anyone remember the Oldsmobile Aurora, GM's last noble attempt to take on Lexus. Same strategy, no mention of Olds on the car at all. How's Olds doin right now?

How many more of these articles will there be???? I'm trying to be on vacation in NYC, away from all this nonsense, but Anti-ToyotaSpies keeps sucking me back in. I have to add some voice of reason to this mayhem. BTW seeing lots of new LSs and S-Classes in the city.

trust me. Compared to Los Angeles, New York has very little LSs and S-classes. I see one every 5 minutes.It kinda sucks because no matter what car you have, it'll look cheap because of all the Astons and Ferarris I see on a daily basis.

More baloney. Hyundai is cutting there sales target for both the U.S. and China, (even though they sell inexpensive cars) yet we are supposed to believe they will
eventually compete with BMW and Lexus. Please

Sounds like a bit of a troll-ish post, which is unexpected. Do not underestimate them. You are taking on the "prestige" view that you so vehemently fight with the German trolls.

..only time will tell.

hey kids.

it's the same model lexus used to great success...
imitate the competitor one rung up from you at a greatly reduced price.

This would be true if they could make cars anywhere close to BMW, Lexus or Mercedes. But, as any rational thinking car enthusiast knows, this just is not true.

hyundai's not trying to make a world-class performance luxury car. just a really quiet, reliable, comfortable sedan. (i.e. a lexus)

And you know that it will be really quiet, comfortable and reliable how?

BECAUSE LOOK AT THE HYUNDAI AZERA.

It's quiet, comfortable and reliable! A Toyota Avalon, but better-looking and cheaper!

You are just blind at this point. If you can't see how similar this is to Lexus's 1990 position then you don't deserve my time.

If you consider the Azera a really quiet, comfortable, reliable car then I have mis-judged your your knowledge of automobiles.

As have I. Are you ignorant or just scared? The Azera is just as good as the Avalon. I'm no Hyundai lover, but I know to give respect when respect is due.

Hyundai still might want to invest in a seperate dealership network, if they want to avoid a Phaeton-esque disaster.

They are nowhere near having a seperate dealership network established. They are still struggling to sell what vehicles they produce now.

Hyundai won't be competing with Lexus. In order to compete, you have to have a price close enough to the competition, not several thousand less. This way, they're competing with themselves. Eventually, people will buy the Genesis instead of the Azera because they are supposedly very similar in price. Hyundai doesn't gain the luxury car name and eliminates one of their own cars in the process. If they wanted to be Lexus so bad, the Genesis would be $50k instead of, what was it, $30k?

Oh, and I know this article didn't mention the Genesis, but that's the car that supposedly will lead them into the luxury market so I used it for my example.

so how do explain the original LS400 priced at $35,000 while the 560SEL was priced at $65,000 that year?

The original LS400 was never priced to go after a top of the line Mercedes, but the entry level one.

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/HyundaiAzera/Images/Dash-md.jpg

This is what the nicest Hyundai looks like right now.

Impressed?

I know that I am not.

However, I will not be surprised if this new Genesis blows our minds in respect to how capable Hyundai is of making a proper luxury car.

enthusiastx11-

I believe the LS was originally designed to compete with the lower class Mercedes, which was something like $8,000 more than the LS.

Nope, the LS was S-Class sized and powered, even literally fabricating the car's chassis. THEY WERE COMPARED.

You guys are so two-faced. I get a kick out of it.

Your lack of knowledge on this is surprising S4. The LS was targeted at the lower
end of the full-sized Mercedes, not the high-end. Using your logic, the Hyundai Genesis at under $ 40,000 is targeting the over $100,000 Lexus LS600hl, or
Merecdes S600.

Regardless of which Mercedes the LS was originally compared to, I still think Hyundai CANNOT compete with Lexus. If Hyundai wants to compete with Toyota, fine. If Hyundai wants to compete with Honda, good luck, but okay. If Hyundai wants to compete with Nissan, sure, whatever. It's when a non-luxury name, known over half of it's time on the road for making cheap cars that only go a few miles, starts to compare itself to luxury cars is when I get mad. I hope everyone is aware that once they compare themselves to Lexus, they'll also compare themselves to Mercedes, Audi, and heck, they've already compared themselves to BMW.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bK_1cUy_97Y

http://youtube.com/watch?v=luvJfDnBMiY

999:

you are mistaken. lexus aimed the first LS400 squarely at the 7-series and S-class. in fact, they even launched the car in germany and gave journalists one of each car to drive. they even bragged about buying S-classes, taking them apart and 'making them better.'

So should I expect P Diddy to be hanging Hyundai hood ornaments around his neck any time soon?

I think not.

Hyundai will stay an "underdog brand" to Lexus like Lexus is, and will remain, to Mercedes, regardless of how great any of these cars are.

And they will sell a lot of cars!

Hyundai might just be the next Lexus.

Looks like.

It's funny watching all the anti-Lexus people put full faith and support into Hyundai. Anyone who topples the mighty Lexus, right? Hates Lexus to death, supports Hyundai to the max. Oh and by the way, if Hyundai's the new Lexus, that's even more bad news for the Germans...

I'm still pushing my wife to drive the LS460L.

We saw a white one in a lot at the mall today, which has a particularly attractive pearl finish. I said:

Me: "Wow, that's a nice color. Doesn't it look good?"

Her: "Yeah, it looks very nice."

Me: "Will you drive it?"

Her: "No."

Me: "You're afraid you'll like it."

Her: "I'm sure I would like it. I just don't want a Lexus."

I continue to be confused.

Likewise, I continue to be confused as to why you think anyone cares about your wife's opinion. Is it even worth a comment? I don't care that your wife doesn't like Lexus anymore. What argument are you trying to cook up now? I guess I'm just curious as to why you responded to MY comment out of all of them with this?

Your right Anthony. I thought I heard the last of it when S4 kept telling us that his wife had decided on the Mercedes S-Class as their next ride.

She represents the avg luxury car buyer. She cares too much about the badge, although recognizes when a car truly fits her needs.

I'm not going to push her for the LS because I'd rather she got a BMW or Audi anyway, so you're wrong, RICEMASTER. BTW, I'm the bacon-bringer in this household.

Hyundai isn’t trying to be the next Lexus. Folks, what they are trying to achieve is the same level of respect and admiration their Japanese counterparts get. By this I mean Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Etc. I understand that they are not there yet so I don’t want to hear pitches about which Japanese company is better. Once Hyundai perfects their product and produces top grade everyday family cars, then and only then will they take a real stab at going after Lexus. Ultimately, Hyundai has modeled themselves after Toyota and wants to follow in their footsteps. Not bad if you ask me.

Airliner- Good post. Hyundai Azera I own is fine car. After looking at these spy interior shots of the 2008 Genesis I was pretty impressed given the horrible detail of photos:
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2008/Hyundai/100626192/2008.hyundai.equus.20027604-E.jpg
from passenger side:
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2008/Hyundai/100626192/2008.hyundai.equus.20027605-E.jpg

Hyundai is going to pull the rabbit out of the hat with this car. In hope to amaze the doubtful crowd...

If they come to the show with that interior, they will get laughed at. Having said that, that is not the interior for the Genesis.

Lexus aren't seen as particularly prestigious over here in Europe anyway. So if i was able to have a better, at least exterior desinged car, and infact the design of the interior will probably be on par as well, if not better (never a fan of Lexus layouts. As well as saving a few £££ in the process, i'd be inclined to go for the Hyundai.

Yea, sure you would Czelinski. I bet that giving-up your love of German
vehicles (as judged by your posts on Autospies) for a Korean car, will be very simple for you.

If it means digging at Lexus, of course he will.

Your enemies' enemy is you friend, right?

Well, i wouldn't give up my love of German cars. If i was forced to go Asian, then i would choose the Hyundai over the Lexus.

You are a mental case.

WHY IS YOUR NAME HYUNDAI?!???!?!?!

I continue to be confused.

That's the point. It's all in the badge, huh? How about the substance, the thing people really buy cars for?

I was a die-hard Ford hater until I saw their Euro line-up. After that, I realized that I can't hate any brands, realistically. You have to look at a car based on things that actually exist (in my book, that also includes things such as emotional reaction/response).

But really, what does it matter if my name is Hyundai. Don't my posts matter more?

And S4, in all the years that I have been a poster here at autospies, I have NEVER seen you use "LOL!" as much as you have recently. In fact, I don't ever remember you using "LOL" ever in several years. Now you use it frequently. Was your brain hijacked by the non-stop ridiculousness of these boards?

Why not? The only Lexus i can admit to liking even slightly is the IS. And even then the rear end is rather ugly. If the Hyundai was to look like it does in the images, then i would choose it over a Lexus providing it had almost, if not as good ride comfort and enough equipment, which of course i'm pretty sure it will have.

I think most importantly is the way Hyundai approaches the market - they have a chip on their shoulder that makes them very intimidating in terms of the way they are willing to do business. They have been gradually bringing vehicles to market that are great iterations of what others have had sucess with (Sonata - Accord)(Azera - Avalon). This is not rocket science and is exactly the Toyota has operated historically to develop their leadership in key segments (Camry - Taurus)(LS - S-Class). Toyota was more methodical in their approach while Hyndai continues to push more aggressively. Hyundai should be expected to threaten the Big 3, which is not their goal, but ultimately be considered at parity with Honda & Toyota who are importantly their cultural rivals. Moving Hyundai upscale wil be the first step, and I personally think that they will pursue a differentiated luxury brand in the next 5-10 years - hey the formula seems to work, why not adopt it right?

When I was selling Porsche and Audi in the eighties and early nineties I used to say the same thing,German cars have soul.That's a bunch of crap.Not all german cars drive better than the sum of their parts anymore.Some still do like the 3 series and a few other BMW's,most Mercedes don't.Some Audi's do,and all porsches do.Hyundai knows it won't take sales from Lexus.Their smart to position themselves against them but they want a piece of Toyota's and Honda's pie.

Are you nuts?

this will never work while they keep the name hyundai.

things wrong with genesis being connected to Hyunadi include:

the name hyundai is awful and doesnt flow or sound classy

the genesis cannot be built in the same plant as their econobox cars.

its korean...enough said

and as long as its built in america, it wont have that foreign finesse.

Maybe you should gain some maturity.

After Hyundai concours Lexus they will next go after Buick ;)

you probably wanna take some lessons in the marketing field, because large corporations take a lot of time finding a name that will flow and make customers feel confident in what they bought.

Where are they making better cars? If that were true, than they would be outselling Toyota and everybody else since their cars are less expensive. However, as already pointed out in a press release, Hyundai is lowering their sales
outlook for both the U.S.an d China due to the lack of sales.

You should know that it's about image. They do a lot of advertising, but not much of the general American car-buying public holds Hyundai in the same regard as Toyota, Honda or Ford. It takes more than five years for a high-volume company like Hyundai to do a complete 180.

Here is a lesson for you...

"toyota became #1 not because of their name

"because they made better cars!!!!!!!! "


actually, they came up with a BETTER NAME as well!

the founder's name was Toyoda. he was advised that Toyota would be more commercially successful.

"and guess what hyundai is doing....

"DUH!!!!!!!!!

"making better cars!"


LOL!!!!

indeed they are! to the extent they are MAKING BETTER CARS than both detroit and ALL THE EURO BRANDS TOO!!!

with respect to RELIABILITY.


as for Magic Feel, well that will come with time. after all, it's also just a matter of time before Infiniti and Lexus match or better their versions of Magic Feel too. just as the japanese motorcycle makers have matched and bettered the world's best in bike handling. (to say nothing of ENGINE designs and output!)

You have no idea what you're talking about. "Time" doesn't make a car better. Engineering excellence does. And BMW is better at this than anyone else.

"until i realised Lexus makes better cars. "

we've converted one of them. lol

"Lexus became famous because they made super reliable high quality smooth luxury cars"
"nicad"

Lexus became famous(in America only) because it kissed a lot of American customer ass. Their cars are years behind in technology compared with the real luxury brands like Mercedes or BMW but their powerful marketing machine successfully brainwashed the gullible American car buyer into believing that Lexus is a competitor for real luxury brands. There is absolutely nothing special about Lexus other than the difference in approaching the car sales business. While the other manufacturers are trying to make better cars, Lexus concentrates on creating a false image of their inferior product by offering the VIP treatment (reserved normally for real high class vehicles) to push their mediocre product. Is it working...yes it does and that's because most of the buyers are far from being car connesseurs. Luckily for the rest of us who know a thing or two about cars there are still brands like Mercedes or BMW to lift our spirits.

"Lexus concentrates on creating a false image of their inferior product by offering the VIP treatment"

Are you joking? The reliability of a Lexus vehicle compared to their counterparts
is miles ahead. Read any Consumer Reports or JD Power ratings. Why would you make such a false statement?

"Tell me how Lexus got hold of this, will you?"

perhaps you should be asking that to Bosch, whom you claim have patented the w/e technology you claim to find in the LS, solely to Mercedes.

"Are you joking? The reliability of a Lexus vehicle compared to their counterparts
is miles ahead. Read any Consumer Reports or JD Power ratings. Why would you make such a false statement?"

No its not, in the latest JD Power ratings Lexus suffers on average 1.45 problems per car over the first 3 years while BMW suffers 1.82. That means buying a Lexus means you'll have 0.37 less problems over the first 3 years... WOW!!!

Of course people want reliability as well as quality you fool.

Maybe in your mind, but most people equate luxury, quality and reliability as true attributes of a fine automobile.

I have a copy a Rob's Report and guess what not a single lexus in sight, just Benz's, BM,Porsches and of course all the italian stallions.

Funny that.

Baloney. I have read at various times the "Rob Report" magazine, and they have plenty of Lexus, BMW and Mercedes vehicles sold from the same dealers.
Stop posting BS.

remember when this site was full of lexus ads. hmm...seems that hyundai is playin the same card

Hyundai can do it with the right marketing. Just look at how Toyota created Lexus. Upscale showrooms, hand-picked sales teams, excellent customer service. It's not necessarily about the cars. It's brilliant marketing. After all, they have been selling the same cars under the Lexus brand that they sell in Japan and some other countries under the Toyota brand, and the customers are willing to pay more for them. One of the most successfull marketing plans ever.

Have any of you ever driven an Azera? Probably not. However you continue to turn your nose up at the Hyundai badge. Back in the 60's when Toyota was a fledgling company I owned its first Celica after owning a Corolla. They were thin metal bodies with an engine, rustpots that had little or no staying power. Econoboxes in the face of the big finned American cars which were all the rage. It took a number of years for Toyota, and Honda to get their act together and begin to produce cars that were quality and had value. Hyundai is doing just that now. I love my Azera for its comfort, value and reliability. An excellent car for the money, they are getting it and fast.

I have a IS250 which I am very pleased with in just about all categories (as a bonus, very good mileage).
I was given a loaner of an ES350 which was a disaster. The car is almost undriveable. Similar to FWD cars of '80s vintage. How could Lexus come out with a car like the ES which drives horribly? I would assume the GS and LS are far improved over the ES.

The ES may look beautiful, but it drives like a Camry, which is pretty damned near close to having no feedback as it gets. HOWEVER, it is possible to drive the Camry and ES with great steering accuracy providing that you know how to drive an handle a car. I am not saying you don't, I am just saying.

Yes, it is nice to have a car that has the optimum amount of steering feedback; that, I cannot argue.

Chrysler will need a good RWD platform after Daimler.

s4:
"You have no idea what you're talking about. "Time" doesn't make a car better. Engineering excellence does. And BMW is better at this than anyone else."


wtf was going thru YOUR head?

did you think i was saying time makes a car better like it does for WINE? i said OVER time, as what happens with continued development. as in the constant pursuit of perfection, among other things.

elsewhere, there was an article pointing out how far toyota had come. when they 1st started exporting to the u.s. in the late fifties, they sold just a handful of cars, and all of ONE land cruiser in the first year.

today, they sell more vehicles than GM.

that happened OVER TIME.

ErichHartman:

"You're statements are idiotic and biased. Offer some proof before you claim Lexus makes better cars. Better in what?"


how about QUALITY and RELIABILITY? how do you account for the consumer reports finding that the 1998 lexus ls400 had fewer problems than the 2006 ML500?

and that in their used car recommendations, there are two american car models (4 if you include rebadged toyota models), and all the rest are japanese? there is exactly ZERO german cars on that list.

on their chart of "Bad Bets," there are only 3 japanese models, 1 korean, and the rest are ALL american and EUROPEAN!

apparently, even the Koreans, to say nothing of the Japanese, make more reliable (and just as technically advanced) cars than Germans are capable of making.