After years of speculation, official Lexus IS-F performance numbers now public

they made enough to beat BMW.



So the IS-F beats the M3? Really? Proof please.

"it's obvious they are going after each other. Lexus in performance bmw everywhere else."

Yeah, sure, BMW is chasing Lexus in every area other than performance, you're just rediculously biased.

417 vs 414 horsepower? Wow! The Lexus IS-F is going to be so super duper fast! Anyone else think the BM M3 is underpowered? I mean 414 horsepower are nothing when compared to the Lexus IS-F Godly 417 horsepower rating. Come to think of it the Lexus IS-F could actually take on the Bugatti Veyron and probably win! What do you think, Nicad?

Now you're contradicting yourself. First you claim the IS-F will be faster than the M3 and now they're equally fast? Make up your damn mind and loose the bias.

when you'll grow up you'll understand that other companies other then german can acctually make cars as well.



One day when you grow up you will understand that Lexus is not God or perfect. Enough said.

The IS-F is sure to be slower... look at the weight of its bonnet (sorry hood in the US) alone! LOL! Well I must say all you people saying it was going to be so far beyond the BMW in horsepower were sorely mistaken yet again. Lexus does just enough... cause it loves to copy and imitate.

A 5-litre displacement with the right compression ratio makes it theoretically possible to meet the h.p. claimed in spite of strict emissions. What I want to know is at what RPM is this h.p. figure achieved and what the torque curve looks like.

It's not hard to produce an engine that is better than BMW's V8. BMW makes a nice in-line six with iron liners but their V8 uses Alusil, a more brittle silicon impregnated block with no iron liners. I sure hope that this Lexus V8 uses iron cylinder liners.

Be prepared to pay six figures for the IS-F stateside and don't shop anywhere for groceries except at the Plam Beach Publix where the parking spaces are wide enough to prevent door dings -- note that the IS-F lacks protective anti-door-ding side strips.

i applaud Lexus for giving the IS-F 10-spoke wheels. LExus stylists have finally awakened and designed a nice wheel where the number of spokes is a multiple of the number of bolts.

"they made enough to beat BMW. seems Lexus and BMW have a thing going. LS600h has just enough horses to match the 760."

Okay, I'm sorry to tell you this... but BMW isn't chasing after Lexus in the horsepower wars. It's between Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz and Lexus will have to really work to get in.

These are great power figures- just about what I expected. From some sources, the M3 and RS4 have 420hp; from others they have 414. So in any event it's right in there with them.

But just to make this clear to you- more horsepower doesn't mean it will be faster OR better. The lighter the car is, the better- that will give it better handling and make it quicker. Lexus really has to prove to us that they can make a car that handles. Anyone can make it fast... but right now, all we know is that M-B, BMW and Audi really know how to make their hot rods fun.

Ok since we're talking about horsepower here I thought I'd mention one big thing that also affects acceleration, torque. The Lexus has about 80 more than the BMW and about 55 more than the Audi. I'd say only the MB will beat it in that department. So unless the Lexus weighs a lot more than the BMW or Audi, don't count it out so easily.

In response to S4 about Lexus just entering the hp war, that is true and they will need more engines to prove that they are here to stay

nowhere in this japanese press release does it state horsepower in SAE terms.

311kw power
505Nm torque

can someone please share the conversion formula? i don't know it.

nicad:

and anyones who's been reading automotive publications for the last 20 years will tell you the BMW and Mercedes are very conservative in their performance estimates and horsepower ratings.

sure, BMW claims 4.8 for the M3. they claimed 5.3 for the 335i and that achieved 4.8. do you seriously think the M3 will do anything more than 4.3 or 4.4.

furthermore, though power is important, handling is MORE IMPORTANT. here lexus has a lot to prove. and they're already starting from a bad place with the IS-F as its weight distribution will be quite off due to the stretched front end and the heavy conventional 5.0 liter v8 mounted so far forward. not to mention their numb steering in previous 'sports' sedan like th e GS that you rave about.

there's still lots for lexus to prove. and this press release has added almost nothing.

let's see how this thing actually drives.

Car and driver tested the m3 on a slippery track and got 4.4 sec to 60. i figure around 4.1 sec would be accurate

Car and driver tested the m3 on a slippery track and got 4.4 sec to 60. i figure around 4.1 sec would be accurate

Car and driver tested the m3 on a slippery track and got 4.4 sec to 60. i figure around 4.1 sec would be accurate

also, the m3 has the lightest v8 in the market and a carbon fiber roof to lose weight

There's much more to a car than horsepower, you know. If the IS-F turns out to be a pig like the IS350, then the HP will be negligible. IS350 is 110 LBS heavier than the 330i.

You're right, nicad. You live in a fantasy world in which Lexus is your god and represents all that is holy.

All you German fans need serious help. I couldn't care less where the car comes from. If it performs well than it deserves props. I think the german fan boys here are all blinded by the fact that the big 3 do not have the power and control over that market like they used to.
Times have changed. For one, Bill your just turning everything around, reread Nicad's post, unless you can't read. Ennorak and kart are the only one's that know what they're talking about. As for the 335i it can pull a 4.8 on a perfect situation but on average in the real world 5 flat is what it will always do which is maybe 0.1 seconds better than the IS350. As for Toyota not knowing how to build sports car all i have to say is the Supra. The 2JZ-GTE is among the greatest engines ever made. Point final.

thats decent for a first generation attempt for lexus. torque is pretty high too. i suspect it might be the slowest of the bunch, but if it really is under 4.9 seconds like lexus stated, it will do fine in comparison tests

i meant horsepower wise, weakest of the bunch, but no doubt, it will do fine.

if the car is light, then it will definately be able to keep up. they have to release the weight of the car first...

whats the torque of the bmw?

i thought that the M3 has 420?

It's that different markets have different ratings due to their legislation. The UK 911 GT3 has about 405 horsepower while the majority of the rest of the world is 415 horsepower. Samething with this situation.

Fast acceleration is a function of gear ratios as well. You can design a car to accelerate quickly between say 0 and 60 and be a snail between 100 and 150.

Who wants to drive thru London anyway? That's what London taxi cabs are for. Furthermore, in London and Tokyo they drive on the wrong side of the road. I would not drive in any large Metropolitan city. It's too dificult to find decent parking in New York during business hours. They drive like maniacs in Paris and many other cities too numerous to mention here.

What are you talking about????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You know absolutely nothing about the city I have lived in all my life and then spout crap about it!!!!

The IS-F (when the emissions charge comes in) will be paying exactly the same as the M3, as I highly doubt it will emit under 225 g/km CO2...the IS250 can't manage that.
The stupid American system for emissions is ONLY used in America, ULEV or whatever is NOT used anywhere else, and NOT in Europe!!!
THe IS-F pollutes like hell!!! It has a 5.0 V8 for chrissakes!!!!

actually it says 423 PS which converts to 417 hp

1 kw = 1.34 hp, so it is 417 hps.

You are renlex, right?

The only moron here is you, Nicad. So the IS-F has the virtually the same horsepower rating as the R8. Does that mean it will perform like the R8? Of course not. Weight and other factors play a crucial role in this.

Maybe you should go back to school instead of talking with the big boys...

Nicad, you're so retarded I won't waste my time arguing with you anymore. I've lost too many braincells and lowered my IQ by too much already just reading your ultra-biased fanboy bullshit.

"so you don't think putting the same horses that the R8 has in a small sedan is pretty damn impressive?"

Well... the RS4 has the same ENGINE as the R8. I think that's impressive.

takes a lot of horses to move a bloated car.
notice that there's no revelation of weight statistics. that's because they're not pretty.

horsepower to weight ratio is a MUCH more relevant figure than HP alone.

"and 10 year olds don't have high IQ's"

As a matter of clarification, that is not true. I.Q. is the ratio of your mental age (which is what the test actually assesses) and your chronological age times 100. So someone with an I.Q of 140 and an age of 10 would have the mental age of a 14 year old. (Marilyn Vos Savant's current mental age is a highly theoretical 140) So for the ratio to remain the same the difference between your mental age and chronological age must increase over time. Chronological age generally wins as younger people generally score better on the IQ test than their adult selves.

no units are different. its 417...

Here are the exact numbers the site is reporting

Maximum output [kW (PS) / rpm] 311 (423) / 6,600
Maximum torque [N-m (kg-m) / rpm] 505 (51.5) / 5,200

001

Max torque at 5500rpm? taht isn't very good.

The M3 engine is remarkably high-revving for a V8, it also revs very smoothly. Its character is not like a V8 at all. I think the IS-F will have a more traditional lazier V8 engine, it won't be as on-edge and alive as the M3.

Yes, nicad. The RS4 doesn't have as much torque, either- but still more than the M3, and it's equally high-revving, which is fun. The C63 beats the IS-F on both figures, with 450hp and an incredible 44lb ft of torque.

Damn. I mean 444, obviously. LOL.

yes, but that torque isn't available until the engine in revved up to 5500rpm. another lesson for nicad: this is why torque band is a useful piece of info.

fyi, the M3 develops peak torque at 3900rpm and revs up to an unbelievable 8400rpm.

its 5200 moron

nicad:

power/torque numbers can be evaluated only collectively. you need the whole picture, not just one data point.

just let us know when lexus reveals US specs for HP, torque, torque band and redline.

In fact it's bad. Cadillac has the same problem with their direct-injection V6. The torque-curve is everything is a car. The F430 Scuderia has exactly the same torque as a normal F430 but the torque curve is much flatter, ideal for on a track.

Compare the torque curve of the M3 or RS4 to the IS-F. (both high-revving engines, what makes is more difficult than a 5 litre V8!)

Peak torque at 5500 rpm for a 5 litre V8 is laughable. This shows how good the Germans really are at engine building.

"well, the reason it has way less torque is because it's high revving.

that's a characteristic of high revving engines- less torque.

I'll take my 6000-7000 rpms with more torque. thank you."

The IS-F is not high-revving. My Audi A8 4.2 can do 7000 rpm as well.

Other than that you have idea what you're on about.

Not bad.

No, nicad, physics won't allow it.

oops, deboost

well, theres something to justify the extra 15K...a tenth of a second faster and a little better handling

im sure its worth it. ;)

nicad, I again point out that that was from Edmunds.com. And I again say that they have some of the most inconsistent track/straight line times in the business. NO, that's not an excuse- I'm sure the IS250 X is fun. But they said they couldn't get the S6 to 60 in less than 5.6 seconds, while one magazine has gotten 4.7. They got the 335i from 0-60 in 4.7 seconds... which is still its fastest time. I'm not sure if it was even a stock vehicle, though it probably was. There have been so many other instances, but this is off the top of my head.

Remarkable how Lexus always comes back to 85% of the performance for 70% of the cost.

nicad:

yes the IS250 did very well in slalom. notice it was the IS250, not the IS350. so with lexus you have to choose: underpowered IS250 with manual that handles well OR IS350 with an automatic and proper power that handles less well.

why can't they put all the right things (power, manual, handling) into ONE car?

No, nicad, physics won't allow it.

your responses are bizarre nicad.

why don't you ever respond to what people say?
instead you go off on these tangents and put words in people's mouths.

have you stopped taking your lithium? let us know if you need help.

monster torque, nice.

where did you get 3620? lexus website says for the IS350 Curb Weight (lb / kg) 3,527 / 1,599

well the IS250 does have the wonderful manual out of the tacoma. so they actually do share parts.

it's not humor nicad. it's a fact.

lexus didn't develop a manual at all.
they simply used the manual transmision out of the tacoma.

I beleive it. They may make 10 million cars, but the tacoma manual tranny is the only one they make that could handle the torque and be small enough to fit. Most of Toyotas manuals are for 4 bangers and a couple of sixes, nothing with more than roughly 200lb/ft of torque. The V-8 would tear any of toyotas passenger car manual trannys to shreds.

My comment is on CURRENT toyota vehicles, not cars that haven't been produced for ten years. If the Supra was still being produced then you'd be right, but alas, you are wrong as usual. Even your precious LF-A isn't going to have a manual tranny.

Nicad, your mom is calling! Time to go to bed!

Please tell me how a Lexus, nevermind a BMW dealership, would let a totaly MORON like you drive these precious cars?

Oh, that's right, they didn't. Stop making up stories. If you can't type properly, you certainly cannot DRIVE PROPERLY either so don't come in here with your "I've driven the IS350/335i..." garbage. I see through posers like you.

Lets all disagree with what the experts are saying to the contrary and believe everything nicad has to say lol.

Nicad, you're like what? 15 years old? How can your younger brother "drive"? Much less you!

You're so full of it.

I'm surprised you're not in a mental hospital. You sound like you belong in one.

You're an architecture student? Oh boy, very funny! If you had any appreciation for design, you'd never go for an LF-A...

"i think the LF-A along with Aston DBS will be the 2 best looking cars in the world"

Seriously? Each to their own I guess...

I am an industrial design student here. I would never go for the LF-A. The form on the car is not exactly cohesive.

keep in mind nicad has previously said he lives in Europe, where they don't even sell the IS350. And yet he test drove one with his brother to help his mother decide on a car. Did she pick the IS350? The car she can't buy there? The one you test drove where it isn't for sale?

Incidentally, I have driven the IS350 and the 335i. IS350 is a nice car, handles ok, good power. But it's not a 335i by any stretch.

"lol are you kidding? the LFA is stunning. i think the LF-A along with Aston DBS will be the 2 best looking cars in the world."

Take the "L" off the hood and put on a roundel instead-- to you it then becomes the ugliest sports car in existence.

Why is it that every LEXUS comment as negative boost and every name calling response get's +6 +7 or so ? The Lexus will have like the M3 numbers that are very close to what they will put up on the dyno. So any cars ( RS4,C63, M3 and IS-F) will by rockets by sedan standards(not sports car like the R8,911 or F430). I just hope that the front end of the IS-500 (coupe version of the IS-F) will have a more balance look with the rest of the car. Anyway ... I would take all of these cars anyday. Most of you would not even drive them close to there max performance as any race drive could (you know most of the test numbers you all put come from).

Architecture school, ha. That just means you can draw pretty pictures but couldn't cut it in real engineering.

if the 335 is so good, why get the M3?

thats the point lexus is trying to make. Lexus has never said that the IS350 was the best performing car ever. thats why they are going to make the IS-F to be better, and to set a new benchmark for lexus. if the IS350 performed the way europeans think it should, there would be no point in shelling out 20K more for a bigger engine in the IS-F

comment above is mean to be a reply to heartandsoul2662

That's a lot of torque!!!!! But I hoped it would have 10-20HP more.

All the car magazines that have tested it?

It's not a bad chassis, per se, but it can't stand up to the 3 Series in terms of the perfect comfort/performance balance.

Really? Find me a comparison test where they explicitly claim that the IS350 X has a better suspension and ride/handling balance than the 335i.

Finally some numbers, it certainly has enough power to compete anyhow. No doubt it will also handle well, whether it handles up to M3 and RS4 standards remains to be seen.

i tell you, some of you guys really have too much pride about toyotas. its rebadged corolla with toyota crown's v8 thrown in there. japanese people are smart and this is why. japanense sure knows how to brain wash dumb people into thinking its something else. go to japan, good thing the m3s sell for over $100k, tariff tax charged to make it cost twice the price of the isf. if they were selling for the same price, toyota isf will not sell. there is reason why toyota/lexus brand dont sell in japan. nicad you are one of those brain washed.

Wow Ashram Boy ... what the hell are they feeding u in the Ashram ?
You diss the v8 in the crown becaue it has Toyota as a brand ? Sure in japan they will celebrate what is in short supply (aka M3 ) and is taxed the most as it celebrates conspicuous living .
The story is different here in the states.. BMW's are dime a dozen and a lot of people see beyond the marketing hype .... aka BMW sedans are overweight pigs.. that while having good road feel are about as far from sports cars as the earth is from the moon.

Mind you i am no fan of Lexus either... They are simply replicating what BMW does without marking out their own USP ....

"417 horses and ULEV II? you can drive the IS-F thru London."

No one in London would want to be seen driving an IS-F through London. 99% would be willing to pay more just so they can drive the M3, speaking of which, I saw one parked up on my way home last night. Looks beautiful :)

No, of course not, but driving a Lexus with a tacky bodykit sure would be. The Brits already think Lexuses are pretty gauche- but adding something like this is too much.

SO WHAT?!?

Do you think that because Merc doesn't improve by 100% a year, that means they don't sell well? Percents mean NOTHING. If you have a small base to start with (Lexus), the percentage increases will be huge if they sell an extra 100 cars per month. But those percentages are gradually lowering themselves to sane levels- which would happen to any brand. They will level off. I don't think they will go down, but to be honest, I don't see Lexus selling nearly as well as any of the Germans in the UK any time soon. They love their Audis and BMWs.

Of COURSE it means nothing! Because it really does not! Lexus is still selling at pathetically low levels in Europe compared to the German three. And no, don't tell me it will happen "with time." Not all things even HAPPEN, period. And for Lexus, they'll either have to change their European lineup drastically or pull out altogether.

im waiting for a LS-F Black Series...

Oh wait whats that retarded ass car that they call their R8 competitor car... something F... who cares... Mercedes is better! lol i love this...

You think Lexus could ever make something like the LF-A without Toyota???

Mclaren has more experience making low volume supercars. Mercedes has the cash. It was a bond of convenience not need. They shared experience and technology. Mercedes doesn't have a supercar chassis, but Mclaren does. Mclaren doesn't have aluxury background, but benz does.

G37 beat the M3? Now thats stupid if it is true. Both the RS4 and M3 are epic cars, and its not just because they are fast and do well on slalom tests. A slalom test doesn't determine whether a car is good to drive or not, its about feedback and the information the car gives you through the steering pedals and gearbox combined with a capable and responsive chassis and engine. If Lexus can provide a car that does well in all of these areas then its onto a winner.

STILL NO PRESS RELEASE....until TOYOTA/LEXUS gives their press release, its still speculation.

417/373 is very good numbers though.

"hp sells cars, tq wins race"

Nicad, you got penis envy or something? The majority of people wouldn't know that the IS-F has 400+ horsepower. They'd just see it, and think...boy racer with too much time and little taste has placed a loud exhaust and a poor body kit on it. It doens't make up for ugly design.

This "news release" was translated from May 17 of this year. As r15mohd points out, it is speculation until Lexus puts out something newer.

agreed.

Also the fact that drivetrain efficiency comes into the equation i.e. how efficient is the car at getting the power to the ground. BMW is notoriously efficient when it come to this area.

"If you can't beat it on the track, at least you can beat it on paper!"

-Mr. Toshi LEXUShara

thesailor...

yeah the hp game is what everyone was looking at, but we all know (well true car enthusiasts) that tq is what puts you int he abck of your front seat.

the tq is more than RS4 and M3...so they achieved a great aspect in that sense. then their is the knowk Lexus attributes, reliability, customer satisfaction, etc

not to mention the strict emissions, ULEV2, and about 19-20mpg avg on the IS-F.

so even thought the hp isnt high, and this is still all speculation, the car itself has notable numbers/points to adhere to.

the German fans will always stick buy their brand, but we all know the manufacturers in Germany have a real close eye on Lexus because they feel a threat, ever since inception!

Torque comes from displacement, the IS-F has an extra litre than the M3 and an extra 0.8 litre over the RS4, so it was bound to have more torque. The IS-F engine will probably be a more traditional V8 compared to the M3's high-reving F1 inspired V8, so the characters will be different. No doubt the M3 will need to be driven harder to extract the best out of it.

great point kinger...

i am eagerly awaiting comparisons from the teir 1 reviewers on this segment of the vehicles. its going to be a real nail biter to see which will get the overall leader of the pack.

MB has the hp/tq advantage, and hopefully for MB, they have a weight testing door hinge contest. ;)

weight testing door hinge *section*

lol... car salesmen do that as part of the *WOW* factor even when selling Corollas. It isn't as big of a deal as they make it out to be.

Thr ULEV2 emission standaard will be a big selling point for the IS-F in europe.

Is the IS-F even coming to Europe?

And if yes, nobody buying such a car will give a rats ass about emissions.

No it will not be a selling point!!!


Get out of my continent!!!!!!!

ULEV means s*** all in Europe, we rate cars on CO2...which the IS-F will emit bucketloads of!

i caught this from another enthusiast forum...i dont know if anyone else noticed, but if you were to look on the lexus is-f site under gallery and then the last picture, it showed the license plate with "MCH 435".

some speculation that was hoped was the "435" represented the amount of hp beign delivered. now even though its been released on the toyota of jp website, the actual press release is set for the Tokyo Auto Show and i wouldnt be surprised if they pulled a fast one.

they kept the attention of everyone for about a year now, so it would only seem fitting to pull their strings a little more.

and correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't JPN vehicles somewhat more underachieved in their home country due to even more restictions? so maybe these numbers on the jpn site are for the JPN vehicle, not the export...

but again all specualtion...can anyone tell i'm hyped about some type of figure put forth from toyota/lexus

Yes, I can certainly tell. I remember an article posted a while back about the IS-F dyno run. You also posted in it. Somebody who had attended the event said that the horsepower number from the dyno run was "431". We don't know if that is from the crank or wheels, but all I do know right now is that I am still unsure of this number. Regardless, it should be an interesting battle. However, although a Lexus fan, I am partial to the RS4.

ISF is rubbish.

this coming from a Jag/Ford enthusiast...congrats on your irrelevance!

Your a idiot.

Haha. I knew it... Those performance figures were going to fall short of their egos.

Simply put, the Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG is the new leader in this category.

IS-F aim was never at MB, its been on BMW's M3.

class leading hp/tq and performance door hinges!

w209, there's no class-leader right now. The RS4, M3 and C63 AMG are all too good. The C63 hasn't been compared to either competitor yet- but the RS4 and M3 have beaten each other in an equal amount of comparison tests. It's too close to call. It really, truly does depend on simply which one you prefer.

Some European mags say that the IS-F will start his sales in europe in early 2008 and the numbers i read are matching so far and if the mags are correct IS-F will be limited to 270 km/h instead of 250 presented in his direct "competitors"!! the problem is that you can remove the limiter in the others but not sure about IS-F!!

Anyone who thinks that the IS-F will beat out the M3 is a stupid, misguided, dillusional fanboy.

Look at the thing. The IS-F looks like it was desinged by Honda Civic Loving teenagers. LOL!!

1995-2007 TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION. All Rights Reserved.

- Toyota? The same Toyota that can't even build a competitive F1 car? LOL!!!

Nicad,

You know nothing about F1 (and cars in general for that matter). BMW purchased the sauber f1 team. Which means that they took over ownership of the facilities as well as the former sauber employees. BMW got rid of some of the sauber folks but kept plenty of them. That is why the name is BMW Sauber F1 team. It was done out of respect to Sauber. The end result is that Sauber doesn’t exist anymore. And besides, the new BMW Sauber team has scored much better results than the previous Sauber team could ever dream of. Different team different results.

As for Mclaren? Mclaren builds the chassis, Mercedes builds the engines. Until recently all cars had different chassis and engine manufacturers (with the exception of Ferrari). It has been like that for the last 50 years until about 2001. Currently Toyota, Honda, BMW, Ferrari and Renault are the only F1 teams that build their own chassis and engines. The other 5 teams have different Engine/Chassis Combinations. Out of the F1 teams that build both chassis and Engines, Toyota is bringing up the rear when it comes to race results.

And yes Ferrari has had its bad years but at least they won races and World championships. Toyota has done neither. But hey, Toyota builds the best cars. Yeah right. LOL!

LexSucks
your bias lends nothing to this blog except to show your stupidity - your comments suck.

Ralf Schumacher is leaving Toyota.. why? he said they in all those years they couldn't build one competitive car!

hhahahaha!

BMW owns Sauber: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bmw_sauber
They baought them in 2005 and Peter Sauber stayed on as a consultant.

cbro980,

The truth hurts, doesn't it? You claim that my "bias lends nothing to this blog except to show your stupidity - your comments suck."

Why do my comments suck? My comments suck but Nicad's and LexusKing's doesn't? I say that because you have not said anything about any of their stupid posts. HMMMM. I wonder why?

Dude, you've just exposed yourself as an insecure Lexus Fanboy that just got his feelings hurt. :-( Live with it. LOL!!

Nicad,

Quit while you can. There are only a certian amount of teams that are allowed in F1. You cannot just enter cars into f1 because the spaces are limited. What manufactures do to enter into f1 is buy another Team. Toyota did it, Renault did it. That's just the way it's done.

HAHAHA where's everyone that said it will smoke every car on the road now?

I hardly see it will smoke M3, RS4, or C63 AMG at all. I thought Lexus was going after AMG not M but I guess I was wrong.

I love to see more pics of IS-F in darker color because I love how IS350 looks in dark. I think it will look much more better.

"Based on the idea of creating a vehicle that can run on various types of roads, the vehicle was extensively tested on race circuits, including Higashifuji Technical Center and Fuji Speedway. The "F" in the IS F name comes from the "F" in "Fuji Speedway"."

Source: http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/07/1004.html

I wanna see some N'ring time as well. If they want to beat M3, they better be good on the track, not just straight line.

What does that have to do with my post?

"Vehicles with domestic specifications have a function to limit speeds that activates at 180km/h."

That equates to only 111 MPH?

When is ToyLex going to stop copying the German car companies and get an original idea???

This doesn't look like anything German.

That's not a good thing, Hyundai.

Not necessarily. If it looked like an Italian car, who would rather it looked German?

Some German-looking cars are rather ugly. Take the B-Class for instance. That is an ugly car. Is it German? Yes. It isn't ugly because it IS German, though. More often than not, Japanese cars are less attractive to me than German cars, which is probably what you were pointing out. In that case, I could agree with you.

Would you prefer an Alfa Brera or 8C looked German?

Not knocking German cars, as I would probably rather have an M3 over an IS-F. Easily, I would rather have an RS4. The C has an ugly interior, so that is not something I could ever live with. I would rather have the interior of the IS than the C's. How could MB screw up so badly there?

Duh, I love Italian cars. But I think Lexus took the Japanese tuner theme aspect on this car a bit too far. You yourself said you don't like the looks, if I remember. The IS350 is a triumph of design that I didn't expect from Lexus- but how a company that created a car that classy could ruin it this way is beyond me.

From a performance standpoint, it will be impressive. But I wouldn't be able to live with those looks.

Presenting, the Aztec of sports sedans.

correction...forgot the cool "k"...Aztek

Sweet. Numbers.

Hope some of you can sleep at night now.

yes...numbers galore. enough to answer any enthusiasts questions. oh right, just two relevant numbers from a japanese--not western--spec car.

I mean really. Havent they learned already with the IS350. Although the IS350 is a nice car, and nicad I have driven it on a track and around town, it is nowhere near a 335 in regards to performance and handling. Nicad, I have been reading some of your posts and how do you come up with that stuff? Also, since when is a Auto Transmission provide a person the best options? There are so many better options, like DSG or a version of it. A auto transmission, no matter how good it may be is still an Automatic Transmission. It doesnt provide the feedback that a Manual gearbox does.

IS350 XPackage? For something that is so good why isn't it creating any type of buzz? I mean other than you, I’ve never heard of it. No magazine reviews claiming superiority? Nothing.

Nicad, I know you love Lexus but you are making them out to be something they are not. Even the Lexus execs themselves said that the IS-F isn't an M3 competitor. I'll believe them since they actually built the car. Just because you like Lexus more than you do the other makes doesn’t mean that everything about the Lexus is better. There are areas were the Lexus isn’t superior. And according to the Lexus Execs, that’s how they were designed.

it's not even close nicad.

driven both and--unless you've lost most feeling your limbs--the difference is significant.

Of course you'll notice a distance, BMW's are more than just a big engine and a stiff suspension, any manufacturer can do that. The difference between a BMW and its competitors is the way the steering, brakes, clutch and gearbox work together, you feel part of the car and know exactly what its up to, thats the difference. Lexus has not managed to emulate that yet in the IS. If you prefer the IS thats fine, but the experts say differently, and they've driven far more cars than you ever will:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=120903

"the BMW outmaneuvered the Lexus in every objective and subjective handling category."

BMW4me4ever -
The automatic in the IS-F was modified specifically for performance-oriented applications. As such, the 8-speed Sport Direct Shift achieves "one of the fastest gear-change responses in the world". Blipping control feature round out the features on the transmission. Further details pertaining to the IS-F's automatic can be found by clicking "Read Article".

lol it will still be slower than DSG. "fastest automatic transmission" wow great.

BMW is devloping their own "DSG" or M-DCT which will be much faster than this for sure.

I understand that fully, but an auto transmission is still fundamentally flawed in performance applications no matter how you work around it. It is supposed to shift in a mere 10 milliseconds or something like that. Did you know that SMG and DSG help do that about 8x faster? How exactly is this going to allow you to shift faster that DSG or SMG, which are specifically designed to maximize performance and balance out of an engine? In the performance sedan and coupe market, a manual transmission or version of it is the way to go. If people want a paddle shift automatic, then why bother. have you ever driven the latest in DSG or SMG?

Does the IS-F have a torque converter?

concerning the 8-spd tranny by lexus...

if they claim it will get under 4.9 seconds, then it must be a really good auto/sport tranmission that the developers came up with...

NO TWO WAYS TO LOOK AT IT!!!

Aisin Seiki? I hope that isn't the company that designed Toyota's floor mats.

lol MB C63AMG can do 0-60 in less than 4.5 seconds.
0-62 in 4.5 seconds with their "inferior" transmission.
Also, they are developing their own DSG as well.
so BMW, MB, and Audi are all devloping their DSG transmission while Lexus is behind with thier 8-speed.

lol MB C63AMG can do 0-60 in less than 4.5 seconds.
0-62 in 4.5 seconds with their "inferior" transmission.
Also, they are developing their own DSG as well.
so BMW, MB, and Audi are all devloping their DSG transmission while Lexus is behind with thier 8-speed.

The article's date is May 17, 2007?
Do we consider this info correct?

Even if its not, I do have the feeling the IS-F won't have the 450hps as we expected, and that's a shame with that massive 5.0 V8 to not produce that much.

If its to me, I would get an IS250, and replace its engine with the V8 4.6, tune that up and I'm sure it will produce more power than the IS-F.

So here is my verdict, the IS-F will NOT beat the M3 with this little power, if this info is correct of course. Remember the M3 is a coupe, i.e. lighter which gives it better balance.

I'm not sure why you're assuming that the M3 is lighter (better balanced) than the IS-F simply because it has 2 fewer doors...

Where's your logic?

Hint: You might want to look up the actual numbers before responding...

yeah, its outdated...and the more and more i recall that license plate, the more i think the IS-F will have the 430-435hp like i initially thought at the beginning. the dyno video shown here also can contribute to the numbers.

and for not beating the M3, i wouldnt attest to anything until some more info is given out. We still dont know what the IS-F will weigh in at, nor do we know actual power figures.

time will tell, 3 weeks my friends, 3 weeks!

DaHarder, you're right numbers are of course the correct answer, but since the IS-F has no weight numbers so my friend my logic is this.

4.0 V8 vs. 5.0 V8
8 speed transmission vs. 6 speed transmission
4 doors vs. 2 doors
plus I believe parts (roof maybe) of the M3 are made of carbon fiber?

I think these are enough to assume the IS-F will be heavier when we have no numbers, don't you think?

You're right r15mohd, until we get official numbers all of this is speculations.

So can we please not have more IS-F posts until the damn car is officially released with real numbers?

Thanks.

i dont assume the IS-F to be lighter, but you never know!

i totally agree on waiting 'til actual releases are put forth for the IS-F so we can truly give credit where its due. until then, its our own view of the vehicles.

but knowing this board, i intend to see another IS-F thread before the days done.

Even if every reviewer and A-list auto magazine said the IS-F was a much better car than the M3 and C63, it still would be a "loser" in the eyes of many posters here.

That's just reality.

Debating numbers with people for whom no IS-F numbers would ever be good enough is a waste of time.

and this is still very little info.

0-60? redline? torque band? brakes and their capability? weight distribution?

re: power specifically. bmw seems to consistently outperform with less power. witness the recent test of the LS600 vs. diesel S-class and 7-series. despite a more than 100 horsepower advantage, it hit 0-60 in the same 6.8 seconds.

It would be nice to have FULL DISCLOSURE!

A lot of this is gearing too. I am running through the scenarios right now.

whatever market you choose, it's not even comparable to the S600 as you claim.

The 760Li is at least 0.5 sec quicker than the LS600hL for an average driver. Neither of them are fast enough, considering their 440hp, but at least the 760 breaks the six-second barrier.

after years of speculation, what we have now is largely....more speculation.

lol VERY true.

Ever noticed how any article about Lexus elicits such a huge response from non-fans. I can see Lex fans posting in droves, but haters? The “Most Active” section of the site is about 80% Lexus-related on a slow day.

If you haters are really that confident about your choice of brands, then there really is no need in defending it each every time a Lexus article is posted.

We're provoked to defend our favourite brand from idiot posters who mock German brands needlessly and make factless statements like "the IS-F will kill the M3" and the like. Granted I agree its on both sides but some posters on the Lexus side are relentless in their passionate pursuit of degradation of German brands.

Flozel1,

What the hell are you talking about?
The first reply to this thread is by some Lexus lunatic stating that "they made enough to beat BMW". I guess you didn't notice that? So basically you're saying that the German car fans are the ones that are the "haters"? LOL! This thread says otherwise from the very start. It does take 2 to tango but the Lexus freaks always start it out. This thread is a classic example.

Take a look at any BMW article on this site and you will see the Lexus freaks condemning it.

Just wait till Cadillac drops the bomb with 550+ HP CTSv, that will be something worth talking about.

bam! going to be fun to see.

in the other thread reuters has 423hp...

Notice how BMW can produce around the same power from a 4 litre engine as Lexus produces from a 5 litre engine?

irrelevant...

the MB has a 6.3L motor and produces similar numbers, please explain your point...

all these motors are capable of plenty potential in terms of power, but to keep things reliable and under lawful guidelines, their detuned.

simply seen if looked at open-mindedly

"they're"

"the MB has a 6.3L motor and produces similar numbers, please explain your point..."

That's because it was de-tuned. The S63 AMG produces 520hp out of the same engine--and there will be more power in forthcoming 63 AMG variants.

Should give the upcoming BMW 1-series 135i coupe a good run for the money...

That's alot of torque...

I pretty disappointed by the horse power, only 417 hp but on the bright side it had 371 lbft of torque. But it okay because this is their first true attempt to create a sportcar for Lexus division. But let hope it will perform will on the track and street.

Well if anything the IS-F will make things interesting =) Waiting for actual numbers and comparos...

BTW..I do NOT see performance numbers in release, just Specs....come on people!!!

So.. 423 hp and about 500 Nm of torque out of 5 litres.

Not really impressed. I mean this is very deja-vu... a 1995 BMW M5 (almost 13 years old!!) had 400 hp and similar torque out of 4.9 litres..

well finally you've figured it all out nicad! thanks.

C'mon, renlex, find a new cause.

WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!!!
LEXUS AINT GOIN TO LEAD THE PERFORMANCE MARKET!!!


NE WAIZ GOOD LUCK!!!

I told you all it would have 410-420hp...no one believed me...who's right now? :D

I believed you.

I don't get it, why did Lexus spend so much money and than it only had 417hp??? They should've give it a bit more horse power like 450 hp at least.

But I hope the 373 ft-lb of torque will make up the Lexus IS-F a true competitor in this segment.

its all about the future. if they whip out 450 in the IS-F, what are they going to need for the future GS-F...? 500+? lexus is just entering this segment so they arent going to set such a high standard

haha funny. Just few weeks ago, all you Lexus "fanboys" said that this car will set the standard in the segment with "HUGE" amount of HP and torque and smoke every car in this segment.

you guys are so funny.

"if they whip out 450 in the IS-F, what are they going to need for the future GS-F...? 500+?"

I hear excuses.

YES, if the GS-F ever comes out, it SHOULD have 500+hp!!! That's the segment right now! The RS6 has 580hp!

Yet another solid Lexus thread with over 200+ replies. This car will not be ignored, in fact it will be the class-leading car to beat. Mark my words. Just because it isn't german doesnt mean it isn't good. Lexus has arrived and all others must play catch.

It will not be ignored because it has created a huge PR hype but even Lexus fans are abit disappointed and now they are saying that it will still smoke the M3 at least.

You def. should getout of US and travel the world more often to see what's going on outside of US.

Lexus maybe a solid competitor in the US but other parts of the world, they are struggling to gain the same image as MB and BMW.

Mark my word on that.

lol you are driving an inferior car because U CAN'T AFFORD ANOTHER!

IS-F =Women's car

just like the old m3 rofl

you wish you were 190 when you grow up right?

3527 (IS350) - 3450 (330i) = 77 lbs. somehow lex haters cant ever get #s right.

what do you drive nicad?

let me guess.....camry?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...

Can't stop laughing!!!

The LS400... all of the LS's before the 460 have been caskets on wheels, sorry. I'm sure you pick up a ton of chicks in that babe-magnet, LOL!

And 20s! I'm crying with laughter!

A 330i is superior in every respect but size- and who cares if it's not huge when it performs so well? Used LS400 with tacky wheels, or new-ish 3 Series... hmm, hard decision.

I could buy a ten year old lexus with 150k too and spend more on the rims than the car, but I have more self respect than that and a better sense of what my money can buy me.

"Performance grocery getters" You mean the 3-series? A car Lexus has been trying to emulate with thier IS? lol, david989 doesn't ven need to post anymore with you around nicad.

Yeah I was close! haha good luck buying a LF-A 'cause I don't think you'll ever graduate by looking at ur intelligence.

nicad/renlex, if you are in architecture to buy an LF-A, you chose a career path for the WRONG reason.

1.) an architecture degree alone will not earn you enough money to buy an LF-A. Maybe after 25-30, if you are good enough, will you be able to buy something like that. Architects don't make much out of university. A prerequisite here for earning any kind of living is a degree in architecture AND a masters in architecture. Even after the masters program, you have to have good experience and talent to be making more than $70k a year. If you don't, then be prepared to be paid $40k a year for several painful years.

2.) you exhibit bad taste in cars, for the most part.

3.) you are probably lying, or are a very confused soul to be in architecture and not appreciate the beauty of many German cars.

That should have read: Maybe after 25-30 years of experience, you MIGHT be able to buy something like that...

It wouldn't matter if it had 600 hp. It's STILL a Lexus and can in no way compare to the venerable M3.

EVEN IF it was faster around the track it would lack the BMW-feel. BMW is just fine without getting into these HP wars (like Audi does with their RS4. Regardless of HP, M3 always comes out on top overall). HP has never been the main driving force of BMW.

Lexus fans sound like GM and Ford execs who think buyers ONLY care about raw HP numbers and beat it over our heads with their marketing. HP is easy to make. If that's all you care about get a old Honda Civic and rice it up or an OLD muscle car. You could save a lot of money that way and would serve your purpose.

Comparing an M3 to this is like comparing a 600 hp Ferrari to a 600 hp riced up Civic. Which would you rather have?

I'd rather take this 1034bhp BMW M5 instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up4NNp71CQI ;)

lol gotta say nicad is never phased

so enough with the hating, and lets just say the IS-F outperforms the M3 in performance/handling (because thats what a M3 is known for)...will any of the German crowd really give it any respect, or becuase its a Lexus...they could care less?

simple question, honest answers plz!

I respect all car companies but not the so-called "fans" that are driving the cars. I know there are snobs and idiots who drives any kind of brand outthere but here in Autospies, Lexus "fans" claim things out of their asses.

I honestly repect Lexus for creating a car that is out of their philosophies(lux cruisers) and making a real sports car.
But I hate all the idiots who claim that this will smoke all the competition. Just by spec, it will not smoke C63amg nor M3 nor RS4. All four of them have their own different identity and I'll be glad to own any of them. And they all will be close in performance as well. BUT, blindly saying that it will "define the segment" or "will make the Germans worry" is not something that I wanna hear from this idiots.

i agree that the fans shouldnt be pre-judging the competition or the vehicles in the segment until tested.

as a proud owner of Lexus', BMW's, MB's...i respect them all. but in my time of owning these different type of vehicles, i;ve noticed that Lexus did indeed change things once they entered the luxury segment.

in truth they did put a "worry" to the German manufacturers, but they did so in a productive way that bettered BMW and MB. Making them realise that if they want to continue to be atop the helm, they have to take notice of Lexus.

so saying the Germans should worry is ok by my standards because this just shows that, yes, other manufacturers are capable of competing in the class the Germans dominated.

now will the Germans continue to dominate, i feel they will stay at the top but Lexus won't be far back, and personally i would love to see Infiniti take a charge into this section as well. they have the means capable of competing in this segment and arent to far away if they focussed on it.

If the IS-F performs the best out of the four, props to Lexus. I would definitely test drive one- if not buy one. Why not?

all you retard talking about weight, here's a little info for you

BMW 335i weight: 3571 lbs
Audi S4 weight: 3659 lbs
Lexus IS350 weight: 3527 lbs

So could you please stop yapping all this garbage that BMW's are lighter than everyone else.

Why would you compare the S4, which has a V8 and AWD, to two six-cylinder RWD sedans? How about the A4 3.2 FWD?

Because the 3.2 A4 is shit, i love audi's new products but the A4 and A6 are last in their respective categories.
And beacuse the S4, 5.2 0-60, is as fast as the 335i and the IS350

I guess. Okay, whatever.

I agree on the 3.2- I HATE that engine. I owned a '00 A6 2.7T, and loved it. Why would they ever dump that engine? I just didn't understand. They should make a new bi-turbo V6. The 2.0T is great, though, and so is the 4.2.

I completely agree the 2.0T is an amazing engine. They should bring back the biturbosto replace the current 3.2 they have but i doubt that would ever happen. As much as i love the S and RS class from Audi i hate the base A's other than the A3.

You hate the A8 and A4? Wow, harsh. The new A4 looks incredible (and it drives well, regardless of the engine), and the A8 is still beautiful.

Completely forgot about the A8, i love that car.
As for the A4 and A6 i don't much care about them. I find their missing something. Though you never know, that could change with the newer models.

In fact, I was very excited for the C6 A6 when it came out in late 2004. At that point, the lease on my '00 2.7T was almost up, and I was planning to trade it in for a new A6 4.2. But then I drove it. My son--who is an avid Audi fan, like me--was almost falling asleep in the passenger seat. Perhaps an S-Line version with the newly updated 350hp would've been better, but I was just not impressed. Then I drove the S4, and fell in love...

This car is amazing and this thread will never stop, it will hit 500 comments in a couple of days. People cannot ignore the best, i.e. IS-F.

Even alone with looks ONLY:

A4 > IS-F > C-Class > 3 Series.

There is no way ANYONE can sit here and tell me that the IS-F isn't BETTER looking than a M3 SEDAN. IS-F is much better looking. And the interior is much nicer than a BMW interior. I think C-Class and A4 are up to par with looks (out and inside) with the IS-F. The 3 series is outdated interior (plain boring guages, cheap black plastic).....come on bavaria!

Actually--I don't know if you have realized this--but other people can have their opinions, too. Wow, what a concept!

I think the IS-F is officially the worst-looking car in this class. I had thought the IS350 was the best-looking in its class until the new C and A4 came out--so it's a shame that they have somehow made the IS-F so unattractive. I just would never be able to live with those looks. That hood, those stupid exhausts... argh. It really offends me. How could they let it out of the studio? I just don't understand what was running through their heads...

The M3 sedan looks amazing. I THINK that. Maybe you don't, but I do. IMO it looks better than the coupe- a lot better.

The Audi's interior designers have further distanced themselves from second-best Lexus (and in some cases, Mercedes) with the new A4. It makes the C-Class interior look nasty, as high-quality as the Merc may be. The IS still looks nice inside, but I think the center stack feels kind of cheap.

The 3 Series is adequate. Not particularly inviting or high-quality, but good enough.

you have valid points...

i personally love the styling of the new audi/mb...the IS350 is a beautifully designed car, much better looking than the 3-series for me as well.

but as you said all the added exterior made it look racer-ish. it wasn't something i expected from Lexus as a luxury brand, but its what was done and also done for specific reasons.

the exhausts are different and are fully functional. i see even high end accessory companys as Mansory has taken steps in producing their own version for Aston Martin's, so it's statements! as was the Altezza/IS300 tail lights.

the new m3 is a nice car as well, the hood kills me more over than the IS-F. the rear end could of been spruced up a bit more but overall its a good lookin vehicle.

as far as interiors...i think the IS-F leads in this case. it's inviting to a driver in my opinion. ergonomics, fuctions, practicality, and user friendly...its all tied together.

the m3 is simple...i expect more for 70k
the MB is not to my personal liking, its far inferior to this class as well
the audi interior is simple, yet practical...i like it but not as much as the IS-F. the IS-F's interior, in all black, scream sports sedan. (i'm not a light colored interior fan)

Fan1234 "There is no way ANYONE can sit here and tell me that the IS-F isn't BETTER looking than a M3 SEDAN"

This statement borders INSANITY. Lexus IS-F is one of the ugliest cars EVER made. To compare it with the gorgeous M3 sedan is again....INSANE!

"the audi interior is simple, yet practical...i like it but not as much as the IS-F. the IS-F's interior, in all black, scream sports sedan. (i'm not a light colored interior fan)"

You've probably never sat in a black RS4 interior with carbon fiber or piano black trim. BTW, no interior without a manual transmission can "scream sports sedan." To me, the IS-F's interior treatment (over the IS350) is nothing special- it's exactly what the Germans have done. "F" badging on the seats and steering wheel, perhaps an "IS-F" badge on the shifter and in the gauges, sports seats, etc, etc.

I take that back. The IS-F's interior looks very, very good... but I hold the RS4's interior in an equally high regard.

297th comment. wee!!

This is so MUCH hotter than the M3 Sedan. That M3 sedan is disguisting. I know people have opinions but that's like calling hte Aztek pretty. The RS4, C63 and IS-F are 10x better than the new M3 SEDAN. BARF.

This is rediculous! I think the car is way hot, but no car should be hyped this much

No. You're wrong. This car should be Hyped because it isn't ur typical german expectation. Go lexus!

300 comments about no new information.
hysterical.

and yet you just added another one -- which -- guess what -- has no new information. Bravo!!!! Well done Ms. enthusiastx11!!! Congrats!

i think is-f have enough power to beat m3 but dont have enough to beat audi rs4

i think is-f have enough power to beat m3 but dont have enough to beat audi rs4

i think it's has power to beat m3 but dont have enough power to beat AUDI RS4 man it's japan man

Dear oh dear, there are a lot of children arguing on here.
I think that the points to be noted are....
1. Lexus have finally come out with something to get the german manufacturers nervous.
2.When talking about 417/414/420 BHP it really doesnt matter whos is greater. If you can shift that professionally then surely there are many other factors to take into account. (chassis,gearbox,weight distribution,grip) If it really matters at all.
3. The proving for both cars will be on the track, my predicition is they will be very similar in performance, the ISF should shade it at higher speeds, but the BMW will be slightly better through the corners. Not sure where the RS4 figures into it though?