Why do you have to buy a BMW M3 to get the performance of a BMW 335?

Since the S5 against 335i thread Agent001 posted not long time ago, I figured it out I have a question myself. A better question, if I may.

Why do you have to buy an M3 to get to the performance of the 335i chipped (procede v2)??

If you guys don't know, the 335i chipped with the second version of the software is right on par on all test (0-60, 1/4m, etc) with the BRAND NEW M3, it's actually staying right there with the M5 also. No stories, there are videos being taken up to 150mph, where the 335i (only chipped, no turbo swap or other hard core modifications) can be neck to neck against the M5.

The chip itself will run you about $1500 less than an hour to install, the 335i is 20k cheaper than the M3, so obviously it's a good question. Why the 335i with a few thousands in mods (swap suspension for the better track ride=$1-2k, swap exhaust for a close to V8 sound=$1k, even include a rear differential for $2k, maybe tires ..) can so easily match the M3, on the street or on the track? Any track. But make sure you understand it: with just the chip alone the 335i will match the 0-60 and 1/4 time of the new M3.

The same question was on the bmw forums not long ago. Since we compared the S5 vs 335i (both stock, same performance, about 8-10k USD difference) I really think we should see people opinions about what BMW did here. $20,000 is a huge difference for the same performance), one that I would NOT pay over the 335i since the exterior of the new M3 is really close, probably 99% of population won't even notice the difference (you can buy a M body kit for the 335i).

Is the 335i a mistake? I mean, who owns an M5 (close to $100k) should feel a little bad about BMW releasing a $45k+$1500chipped car with same performance as their mighty M5 - at least to 120-130mph, nobody really goes over that speed anyway). What about the new M3, people will pay $20k more I would feel really bad to buy an Audi R8 (120k) to be just on par with an Audi TT (40k), right?

On the other side, the 335i owners are really happy, they got a lot of performance (specially chipped) for their money. But we can't say the same about the M3/M5 owners, at least not when comparing to the BMW 335i. The nicest thing I saw on other forums about this discusion was: one 335i guy writing to an M5 owner who was already pissed off on the 335i: "it's ok, you still have an M5, go kiss the M badge now ..."

Again, the question is:

Why do you have to buy an M3 to get to the performance of the 335i chipped (procede v2)??

I think it's a better question cause the S5 vs 335i are two totaly different cars, one Audi - one BMW. Yes they can and should be compared, still so many thing are different: engines, chasis, INTERIOR, EXTERIOR, etc. There people can choose one car over the other for quite a few reasons, depending on their preferences. But when we compare the 335i against the M3, it is only about performance upgrades. Otherwise the M3 looks (and is) a 3-Series, exactly the same interior with just some cosmetics on the outside.

Feel free to make appropiate comments. Please don't come with the M3 V8 sounds better, since it's so easy to get a nice gurgle from a new exhaust, still much much cheaper than the M3.

BMWM - 10/13/2007 10:49:49 PM

+5 Boost

Don't be such a baby. Agent001's article is a legitimate question but it offends you so you have come back with a retarded question like this to make yourself feel better.

IamEvilHomer - 10/14/2007 12:15:13 AM

-2 Boost

agent 001's article is from someone that dosen't know cars

why buy a 335 when you can get get a tuned subaru? that is how stupid that last article was

If Agent001 had a 400 lb girlfriend with buck teeth if she said her name was BMW he would be in love

rg12345 - 10/14/2007 2:24:34 PM

+1 Boost

I don't think I am a baby .. after all, it's a real situation, the question is discussed SEVERAL times on different BMW forums already. Why not here? I do not own an BMW and I do not post on any BMW forums, but I do post here and visit this website daily.

Tyronn - 10/15/2007 2:18:49 AM

+1 Boost

Firstly you can't add a body to a 335 and hey presto it looks like an m3. Please this is ridiclous talk.

Having driven the 335 with the 2nd stage chip I can safely say that it most certainly is not an m3. Drove the new one over the weekend and found a really nice tunnel , put the windows down and went for it. OH THE NOISE !!!!!.

Oh.

There is much more to owning an m3 than performance times. It is the fact you own an m3. an ICON !!!

Hyundai - 10/13/2007 10:55:35 PM

+3 Boost

LOL Good call on the article. I have thought about it too.

The article writer is NOT being a baby. This is an even more legitimate question than 001's. If you ask me, "BMWM" is being a baby because he cannot openly discuss the comparison without calling names!

IMO, the 335i is plenty good enough to warrant not getting an M3, even if you have the money. The M3 is more for the badge than anything else, if you ask me. Want a real track car? Sorry, BMW doesn't make one, so why get the M3?

bmwdrvr - 10/15/2007 10:03:59 AM

+1 Boost

or for that matter why buy an rs4 for almost 70 grand, and you can buy an s4....why was that not a question. the numbers of the s4/s5 are at the same for the rs4 so why buy an rs4 logically you cant get all the performance of the rs4 out without a track, so why not buy the s4...wheres that ????

S4cabriofoxone - 10/15/2007 6:29:22 PM

-2 Boost

"the numbers of the s4/s5 are at the same for the rs4"

What are you talking about?

Even if the RS4 wasn't any faster than the S4--and it's a helluva LOT faster, take it from me--you don't buy it for straight-line speed. Its handling is a revelation for modern Audis.

Matthew1 - 10/13/2007 11:27:37 PM

-12 Boost

What a stupid article.

Why did you even bother wasting your time spewing irrelevant, unsubstantial, biased and pointless drivel?

I mean who actually cares?

Wow, so you can make a 335 faster than an M3...

Does that somehow make you more of a man? I mean why are you giving us this information?

I also think you are neglecting that 1/4 mile times etc. aren't the sole measure of a great car.

Anyone who can write a lengthy article telling us that it is deserves a slap on the face.

One more thing! The M3 is a focused drivers coupe, not a drag car.

Think about that most OBVIOUS point before you waste more bandwidth.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/14/2007 12:12:11 AM

+2 Boost

Wow, didn't expect this from you. The 335i has better steering feel than the M3. It's supposedly just as fun- and would be more fun with a chip.

Matthew1 - 10/14/2007 1:08:19 AM

-8 Boost

Well maybe I was heavy-handed with my response, however I'm reading between the lines here.

Firstly, the author doesn't seem to grasp the point of the M3. Indeed the 'M' philosophy.

Second, who asked for this childish analysis anyway? People who aspire to own an M3 will do so regardless of some chip on the market for a lesser 3, and they will appreciate the hundreds of hours and R&D BMW engineers put on the 3-series coupe in order for it to wear that 'M' badge.

Thirdly, I don't want to argue. I voiced a badly-received opinion and I stand by it.

I just think this article is flawed on so many levels.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/14/2007 6:18:22 AM

-1 Boost

Better steering feel? I drove the M3 and the steering was nothing short of perfect! Just a tad too light, but that can be solved by configuring the M drive.

The 3-series coupe is also very impressive but it's less sharp than the M3 (but still very good)

S4cabriofoxone - 10/14/2007 1:03:15 PM

+1 Boost

"Better steering feel? I drove the M3 and the steering was nothing short of perfect! Just a tad too light, but that can be solved by configuring the M drive."

Not according to the reviews- and I'm sorry to say, but you're not a professional driver. "Light" would mean "not perfect," and why would you have to use M mode and make the suspension super-harsh to get great handling? In the 335i, you can have a comfortably firm suspension AND amazing handling. I just think it's to good. The M3 is redundant.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/14/2007 1:04:07 PM

-2 Boost

"I just think this article is flawed on so many levels."

And what about the S5 vs. 335i article?

rg12345 - 10/14/2007 2:30:23 PM

+3 Boost

well, Mathew, I do not think you would dare to slap me in the face, let's not be extremely brave here ... So many people are heroes when hiding before their computer, in their secret place.

To go back to the article, it's your own opinion .. but you have a few flaws ... read it carefully, you'll see that you can mod the 335i to the level of the new M3, and still be more than 10k cheaper.

Also, the problem is this is still a BMW. It's not BMW against Audi, nor against Subaru (as others said) so it's pretty much the same interior quality, with close looking exterior, same manufacturer, with same EVERYTHING. So stop being a baby and answer what would you choose, and why. Don't slap me in the face ..

Matthew1 - 10/14/2007 3:46:45 PM

-3 Boost

rg,

It was a hypothetical slap in the face. Am I not allowed to divulge in figurative language once in a while?

S4,

That article was equally as silly. I can see where 001 is coming from, however I consider it a non-issue.

At the end of the day it's not like anybody is getting ripped off, car consumers at this level are usually reasonably savvy when it comes to knowing the competition, they will vote with their wallets.

IamEvilHomer - 10/14/2007 12:16:48 AM

0 Boost

thanks for another great comment amazingbimmer

S4cabriofoxone - 10/14/2007 12:13:49 AM

-1 Boost

I would probably take the M3 over it, but that's only because if you can... well, you can. But the 335i merits definite consideration. It's an amazing vehicle that, so I've read, has better steering than the new M3--which is too light. The six-cylinder seems to be a better match for the car.

And, the S5 is right in between the 335i and M3... so I'm sick of comparing it to one or the other. You buy an S5 if you want an S5.

DaHarder - 10/14/2007 12:20:46 AM

0 Boost

The biggest issue with 'chipping' any vehicle (especially one already tuned towards high performance) is that reliability/longevity is often sacrificed.

...and honestly, what mature/intelligent individual really cares about a few tenths-of-a-second here or there on a vehicle destined to be driven on public roads?

Agent001 - 10/14/2007 12:51:36 AM

+6 Boost

I think a lot of you are forgetting the most beautiful thing about AutoSpies.com.

It's a place where everyone is welcome to voice a well intentioned opinion and discuss/debate/argue about all things automotive, with the most saavy and knowlegeable car audience on earth.

001

IamEvilHomer - 10/14/2007 1:00:57 AM

-5 Boost

001 your site is a big ad for BMW
every week you have a big post for BMW as your lead article

yes you give kudos to Audi but it is like hearing a democrat say they support the troops

Agent001 - 10/14/2007 1:06:02 AM

+4 Boost

Hmmm..let's see

Maybe we should talk about the Ford Taurus every week instead...that would really make people happy!

001

Matthew1 - 10/14/2007 1:10:08 AM

-3 Boost

Actually I'd like a shoot-out between the Taurus and the Mondeo!

I know the outcome but it would at least be a breath of fresh air!

IamEvilHomer - 10/14/2007 4:02:58 AM

-1 Boost

no talk about the BMW and post it as a lead on this site

that will get the bmw fans here

001 you love cars but I don't think you get it. I remember some guy 15 years ago talking about how he could make a gocart go faster and turn better then the Porsche. I remember my sales manager tell the guy to get out.

When I hear you write I see this guy talking.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/14/2007 1:07:00 PM

-4 Boost

001, your "S5 vs. 335xi" article really annoys me. Audi didn't make the S5 to compete with BMW. It is its own vehicle and doesn't have any direct competition. You could buy an M3 over it if you want the ultimate performance, or you could buy the 335xi over it to save a buck. But it is a classic sports luxury coupe that makes the BMW seem immature and unrefined. It looks beautiful, drives beautifully and does everything with an ease that, in some ways, is similar to comparing an Aston Martin to a Porsche. They're just too different. You buy an Aston when you want an Aston.

AShul007 - 10/14/2007 1:57:37 AM

+2 Boost

Wow.
How old are the posters on this article?

Hyundai - 10/14/2007 2:58:41 AM

+2 Boost

Don't taze me, bro!

Agent004 - 10/14/2007 2:03:11 PM

+1 Boost

nice :)

bmwpowerf1 - 10/14/2007 4:43:36 AM

+3 Boost

IMO. when you tell someone you have an M3. that says it all

Bill - 10/14/2007 6:32:06 AM

-2 Boost

So posers buy the M3, Nicad?

I guess insecure homosexual men are lining up for the IS-F then, huh?

DaHarder - 10/14/2007 1:26:12 PM

-1 Boost

Every time I've purchased an M3 (1988/1991/1996/2003), it was because that's simply the vehicle that I wanted at that time...

It's truly sad to find individuals making purchases based on criteria as silly/superficial as trying to impress someone else, or who will win the 'stop light' derby.

Someday, when individuals get a grip on their insecurities, they simply won't give a damn what others think, and do/buy as they please.

Thrust me, it's very liberating!

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/14/2007 6:14:37 AM

-1 Boost

"The chip itself will run you about $1500 less than an hour to install, the 335i is 20k cheaper than the M3, so obviously it's a good question. Why the 335i with a few thousands in mods (swap suspension for the better track ride=$1-2k, swap exhaust for a close to V8 sound=$1k, even include a rear differential for $2k, maybe tires ..) can so easily match the M3, on the street or on the track? Any track. But make sure you understand it: with just the chip alone the 335i will match the 0-60 and 1/4 time of the new M3."

that doen't make it an M-car... jeezes

M cars are the business, they INVENTED the segment.

This topic is a joke

rg12345 - 10/14/2007 2:35:23 PM

+3 Boost

Well, if you mod the 335i properly you can have the 99% of the new M3. Cheaper.

Don't get me wrong, I don't really care who wins, I do not own a BMW nor I plan to buy one. But I think the owners of more expensive M3 will be little upset seeing a 335i that close to their but.

M53R - 10/14/2007 7:21:15 AM

0 Boost

Please... the M3 doesnt look that much different from the 3er? Get glasses then. Except ofcourse if you only look at the lights. Idiotic.

And S4, you still cant get in your head that the M3 and the 335i has close steering 'feel'. The has a better steering feel but the 335i is close. Doesnt mean that the 335i handles better. ok? :)

And the M3 isnt about straightline performance. Its a track eater and before any reviewer makes BS statements about the 335i handling better, why not test both on a track, and add a chip to the 335i?

S4cabriofoxone - 10/14/2007 10:58:21 PM

-2 Boost

I would definitely take an M3 over a chipped 335i. But I'm just proving a point- I can understand that, if somebody wanted to be very low-key, they could go the 335i route easily and still be satisfied.

Tyronn - 10/15/2007 2:23:26 AM

0 Boost

They share 20% of panels on the outside. Why don't you fix your eyes mate . M3 is killer, 335 is a poor mans attempt to feel like he owns m3.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/15/2007 6:30:29 PM

-3 Boost

Re-read my post, Tyronn.

Rupert - 10/14/2007 8:38:34 AM

+1 Boost

This article is a bit odd...modding a car won't make it as good as an M car.

Matthew1 - 10/14/2007 3:42:36 PM

-2 Boost

I'm glad someone is on the same wavelength, at least you didn't get a negative 6 boost...

I think my response was too heavy-handed.

david999 - 10/14/2007 12:00:56 PM

+2 Boost

I would take the one with the most "magic feel" after driving them both.

kart1 - 10/14/2007 12:54:35 PM

+1 Boost

See here is the problem. A 335i and an M3 cannot be compared. You are referring to the article written by 001, where he compares the S5 to the 335i. The S5 is a little bit better in its equipment and other things, but it can still be compared. An M3 is much more intense and that is why the M3 is compared to the RS 4. All I am saying is you should have picked different cars to prove your point.

As for Taurus v Mondeo comparison: LETS GO!!

S4cabriofoxone - 10/14/2007 1:09:57 PM

-2 Boost

I would definitely buy the M3 over the 335i--but if you can't quite stretch to the M3, the 335i (or S5) is definitely a good substitute.

deepwater - 10/14/2007 1:11:58 PM

+1 Boost

The chip versions have no more "spare", the engine stretched up to the limit. This means less durability.
The other parts, materials are costy for M series. If you change everything to perform same with M (including engine flexibility, emission, reliability, handling, braking...) finally the cost could be same with M.
In other hand BMW cost/performance indicators are much worst than any other makes.

kart1 - 10/14/2007 1:23:33 PM

+2 Boost

The chip should also void the warranty, no?

kart1 - 10/14/2007 1:24:11 PM

+2 Boost

No Warranty is dangerous for a BMW.

rg12345 - 10/14/2007 2:40:46 PM

+1 Boost

the 335i performs just fine chipped to 420hp. the warranty it's arguable, since the chip can be removed before you take your car to the dealer, the dealer will have no idea what caused the malfunction (if any).

and for people who buy cars for 3-4 years, it's not so important how long the car will stay alive, since they only keep it while it's in factory warranty; I saw people buying cars over $100k and not even care about them, they won't even respect the first 1000 miles (when you are supposed to drive it nicer, until the engine is properly turn over). They won't care about the next buyer.

RS4tothefloor - 10/14/2007 1:31:41 PM

+3 Boost

AGENT001 YOU SHOULD LIMIT S4cabriofoxone ,IamEvilHomer Matthew1,and DaHarder TO ONE POST PER THREAD, they repeat the same crap over and over and over. People like them obviously are losers have nothing better to do. If this site has one weakness its having people like them on it.

DaHarder - 10/14/2007 7:50:13 PM

-2 Boost

Whoa!

What the heck are you going on about?

You obviously have little to constructively contribute to these threads yourself (possibly due to knowledge/intellectual limitations) to have this kind of animosity towards those who simply desire to join in the conversation at hand.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/14/2007 10:59:09 PM

-3 Boost

Thank you, DaHarder. I didn't know what to say to that.

RS4tothefloor - 10/14/2007 11:19:46 PM

+3 Boost

What am i going on about? Its clearly stated above Daharder.I have nothing against people trying to "join in the conversation". I like how you think you have the final say on subjects, or that your the most knowledgeable.
"(possibly due to knowledge/intellectual limitations)"
I have a masters from Columbia,thanks. When you make asinine statements like that you look like a fool.My initial post was my opinion. I'm done talking about this matter, don't reply, it wont be read.

LexSucks - 10/14/2007 2:28:50 PM

0 Boost

IMO it isn't all about performance. The M5 has a level of trim that a 3-series will never have. So what if a chipped 335 is faster? A stock EVO MR is quicker than both the M5 and a chipped 335. Does that make the Evo a better car? Answer: No.

At the end of the day, all we are doing is measuring levels of overkill, and at my age, I'd gladly except a little less overkill for better day-to-day civility. So I'd probably take the E90M3 over the 335, but the $20K price thing is hard to overlook. I'd also never chip a car because I value a warranty.

rg12345 - 10/14/2007 4:40:06 PM

+1 Boost

Ok, you don't wanna play around with the warranty. But you go out there, buy the M3, then tons of 335i (they don't care that much about warranty, I know plenty that chipped their cars) will be neck to neck with you. That is the issue, of course it has pluses and minuses.

Rupert - 10/14/2007 6:15:30 PM

+2 Boost

Or nicad, a sensible suggestion would be that it's because it's 10 years old now.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/14/2007 11:00:48 PM

-3 Boost

Wow, nicad... I'm sure the Lexus GS-F--with an incredible 495+hp and 0-60 in under 4.6 seconds--will crush it.

M53R - 10/15/2007 6:48:05 AM

+1 Boost

Ok Nicad I know you have a poster of the BMW M5 in your room and you stay staring at it all day and night. ;) But dont hate it just because your not old enough to drive one ;)

henbmw - 10/14/2007 7:41:50 PM

+1 Boost

Adamantium

DaHarder - 10/14/2007 7:54:07 PM

0 Boost

Agreed...

One of the single most appealing aspect of the E30/M3s that I owned was their (seemingly) infinite agility/tossability.

My E46/M3 feels entirely different, and not always better...

bclemans - 10/14/2007 10:30:30 PM

+2 Boost

Why Autospies is at it, please add this as a poll too:

Why not buy a BMW 135 to get almost the same / if not better performance as the BMW 335 and the BMW M3? You save a lot too.

From what I had read so far, the 135 has the same engine as the 335 and is at least 100 pounds lighter so should translate to roughly 4.8 seconds from 0-60 (I think R&T quote the manual 335 couple at 4.9 seconds).

nighstalker - 10/14/2007 8:54:08 PM

+2 Boost

Well this is very interesting. I have driven M5s the new one and the last one. I have owned the M3, the last one. I just drove 335i I was surprised by the torque. I'll have to drive the new M3. But the 335i has more torque than my M3. So it all depends on the style you like, but I like torque. Where is it on the new Ms??????

nighstalker - 10/14/2007 8:56:23 PM

+1 Boost

so the question should be why can't I get the 335i performance with the M3?

henbmw - 10/14/2007 11:23:45 PM

+1 Boost

Well thats BMW's philosophy on performance. High-revving, small displacement engines inherently produce less torque; but more fun to most enthusiasts.

bmwpowerf1 - 10/15/2007 6:48:49 AM

+1 Boost

the m3 will be faster when the new transmission comes in. and can most ppl stop saying that 335i chip is better way to go because it isnt, and does not handle better and will no be faster. the running gear in the M3 is totally different to the 335i. tell me does the 335i have a computer that operates at 200 million operations per second. or does the 335 have suspension settings that you can operate and adjust. no. its a different car and i wouldnt buy a 335i and chip it to TRY and make it feel like an M3, cause it never will

2ndbimmer - 10/15/2007 2:13:48 PM

+1 Boost

I guess we will have to wait and see until the spring and ask the new M3 owners to let us know what they think. Until then, I will continue to enjoy my 335i

answer - 10/15/2007 2:42:47 PM

+1 Boost

I'm sure there is a modified Honda Civic or two out there that is also faster than the new M3, but what would you rather have?

I always thought the M3 was designed to be an all-around good performer, not just a 0-60 numbers bragger.

If that is really all you care about anyway, a BMW motorcycle is really the way to go.

Yonder7 - 10/15/2007 4:13:10 PM

+1 Boost

The end point is that the M3 is not as good as it should and from now to one year, you will see a lot of cheap cars that will perform better than this M3. And yes If you put out of the equation the wonderful sound of the M3 engine, 335 is the worst enemy of the M3.

Ilyam5 - 10/15/2007 4:26:15 PM

+1 Boost

1) 335 overheats everytime on the track. 2nd and 6th cylinders are overheating - design issue - tough to fix. It needs 10 minuts of really hard driving - 5 laps and it goes into limp mode (even with stock oil cooler). You need a bigger oil cooler + need to change the design of the engine.

2) You loose the warrany.

3) Since march 08 there is no way to swap LSD in place of stock dif. It is welded in. You'll lose the warranty again.

4) All suspension and exhaust mods are not cheap. Last I checked decent suspension was 3K + 10 hous of installation.

Not worth it.

Ilyam5 - 10/15/2007 4:30:35 PM

+1 Boost

As for 335 itself - it is a nice car .. but it's a street car - soft and not ready for the track.

Did I mention turbo lag. it's small , but it's there.

Engine will starve under heavy G-loads. It needs a different oil sump system.

Plus engine longevity with high turbo mods is questionable.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/15/2007 6:33:51 PM

-1 Boost

"Did I mention turbo lag. it's small , but it's there."

I'm hoping you've driven it. I have. It's not really there.

Sephiroth - 10/16/2007 10:17:11 AM

+1 Boost

a 335 or 135 is just an everyday car, it will never command the same level of respect a M or AMG would, no matter the performance.

like some of you already mentioned, the M cars are exclusive. you won't be mistaken for a regular 3 series. as far as i'm concerned, theses 2 cars aren't even in the same segment.