Can We Say We Told You So: Did Lexus Have An Ace In The Hole With The IS-F?

From these initial reports, the IS-F seems quite a bit more than just HOT compact super-car field, and as far as pricing goes, the Lexus makes the others look very over-priced...

GREAT JOB, even if the naysayers refuse to just accept that LEXUS has Arrived!


The tides, they are a'changing!

The tide may be changing, but the Germans will put up a fight that Lexus will have to address.

The key is here, is that the Germans regularly up the ante on performance almost every year or two, while Lexus puts it out and sits for up to three to four years. This locking in is great for profit but hard on performance. So it will boil down to a war of profit vs winning in the class.

Huh?

We're already at a point where compact-sports sedans are performing nearly on-par with out-right super cars!

It really has become little more than bragging rights in this segment, when speaking in raw numbers, as these vehicles are all capable of feats that the vast majority of their owners will/can never exploit.

I strongly believe that when real word considerations are taken into account, such as reliability, dealer-service, day-to-day drive-ability...

We'll be seeing quite a few these parked where once were German makes.

Note: As If De-Boosting posts will somehow diminish LEXUS' brilliant effort here...

Note: I'd swear 90% of the members here are 10 years old.

You got that right Daharder. By the way, good math work on your part 009.

"...and as far as pricing goes, the Lexus makes the others look very over-priced..."

I simply do not understand what you're talking about here. A $5K price difference makes the rest look "very overpriced?" If that's the price of a well-thought-out suspension, I'd take it.

^ Once you've sent extensive time owning/driving the IS-F, then I'll consider your claims of 'inferior suspension this or that' credible, until then...

Just Leave It Alone Until YOU HAVE!

The Germans are not the only manufacturers cable of producing desirable vehicles, and this FACT really seems to elude you for some reason.

PLEASE, read the rest of my comments!

It eludes him because he lives in a VAG bubble, where VWs are more reliable than Toyotas, and where all Audis are better than all Lexus by default.

can someone plz post the prices of the cars that are being compared to the isf?

Nothing Concrete/Relevant is My Guess...

Its about time. Competition doesnt hurt anybody. I dont see this however as a "serious" threat to AMG, M, or RS. Great car though.

Another thing... What about handling, braking, and other factors which are not mentioned? Im curious to know how those stack up to the others.

"I dont see this however as a "serious" threat to AMG, M, or RS"

^ There's Your Answer... Atypically - With Explanation.

^ NOT!

DaHarder

Well its not. Period. This car is already outperformed by other in the segment. Hence it isnt overthrowing any other product but merely offering at most an equal(being optimistic) aletrnative.

What you're not taking in to account is that in the area of 'Total Customer Satisfaction', Lexus already has documented/distinct advantage over most other manufacturers, and even if the IS-F merely 'EQUALS' the competition, that fact in addition to the already sterling Lexus reliability/satisfaction reputation, might well be enough to persuade many potential buyers to 'Make The Switch'.

Note: There's so much more to owning/enjoying a performance car than the raw numbers could ever reveal.

"Note: There's so much more to owning/enjoying a performance car than the raw numbers could ever reveal."

Very True. You really think Lexus doesnt care more about numbers than making a true sports car?

"sterling Lexus reliability/satisfaction reputation,"

More like lackluster and overhyped during the recent times. Have u missed all the recalls? or maybe the fact that several of their new cars tested below average?

You know the German boys are going to bring up the issue about the handling or the styling. "This car looks like crap!" "BMW is known for their 50/50 weight distribution." "Sure Lexus is fast as a bullet, but nothing can corner like a BMW." Blah, blah, blah....

^ and they'll all come across as nothing more than WINY Children Threatened of the New Kid in Class because he's just a bit Smarter/Better Looking/More Athletic.

It's all so comically juvenile really, especially given that many of these so-called 'FANS' have never, and probably never will own any of the vehicles in question.

Again...Great Job LEXUS!

Mid engine

Shut up! Are u serious about those exhausts? what a joke. Now thats real Rice. With the Germans Form follows Function.

DaHarder

I love how you try to be brave by sticking it up for the little guy. Cute. Youre like the Al Sharpton of Lexus. Nice work

Midengine

I know, the "shut up" was a sarcastic comment on my behalf. Relax buddy I really like your posts and agree with you.

"Note: There's so much more to owning/enjoying a performance car than the raw numbers could ever reveal."

You're definitely right. And it has a LOT more to do with the way the car handles than the reliability. This is where the IS-F is a bit disappointing. For the third time, I say I will drive it--and I loved the Motor Trend review. But Edmunds reported a harsh suspension that isn't easy to live with. This is not true of the German sedans, and this is why I'd probably end up with one of them over the IS-F. Mind you, if the IS-F was truly superior, I would buy it, no questions asked. I honestly do not care about the badge. But it just so happens that the cars those German badges are attached to do a lot more than impress the neighbors.

DaHarder, I must say that you are being a complete hypocrite. You never miss a beat when it comes to pointing out others' opinions, and that they are simply opinions--but this is true in your posts here, too. The IS-F is just not the right car for some people. It's impressive, definitely. But it's not a well-rounded piece. It's not a car that's easy to drive every day. That's why I would rather have an RS4, M3 or C63 AMG. They don't compromise their suspensions for performance.

Okay, I GET IT!!! You can stop posting that now! But don't disregard the rest of my comment! BTW, it was directed towards DaHarder...

S4, and I forgot that you were (obviously either) on the LEXUS development team, or privileged enough to have extensively driven this vehicle already as to add validity to your claims that,

"it's not a well-rounded piece. It's not a car that's easy to drive every day"

How the heck would you know without having lived with it... or even driven it?

Sad Really...

I don't, I'm judging by the reviews. It's quite obvious. However, I know better now, from the other two reviews. My comment still stands. Yours is still opinionated. Some people may just prefer the German vehicles, if you are able to accept that. The IS-F is awesome and (for the fifth time!) I will drive it, but you should understand that I'm going to take it just as seriously as the rest. You seem to think I'm more biased than I actually am. I may prefer one thing over an other... but doesn't everybody? That doesn't make me (or you) biased.

Fake exhausts...haha.

Why spend millions making a car and put fake crap all over it? Why anyone would buy a car with that on it is beyond me.

when lexus arrives...the tides seem to go away...

concerning the article though, ye these are some good times but will the viewers prefer it to the rest? even if the rest cost more?

Sorry, I'm not Nostradamus, and can't predict how this vehicle will be received in the coming months/years...

Hint: No One Can.

All I know for sure is one thing, this is the BEST Lexus ever! period.

best is subjective...

i would think the RX400h could be a contender since it was the first hybrid luxury suv on the market that had original EPA estimates of 30ish in town.

another could be the LS460. 8 speed, perfect 10 on the cnet rating.

but yeh, in the performance category, this is the best lexus evarrrr

Why stop there? Best product ever.

It is the best Lexus ever, by my standards. The LS460 is nice, too, but it's a bit sedated.

I sure hope for Lexus's sake its not.

Depends on vehicle ownership priorities, as always. Clearly you value performance/handling, while others value luxury/comfort.

On that note, I finally get to point out that Lexus can now truly hang with the Germans on performance. Lexus can build a car as wafty as an S-Class, and as hard-edged as an M3. All that's left is a supercar, which will be resolved with the LF-A, and diesel/economy cars which is supposedly to be resolved by the end of the decade.

is this a surprise? I am pretty sure everyone expected it to be quick. The IS350 is quick. I actually thought it would be quicker, but the RS4, M3, and C63 are all just as quick as this is.

Very impressive 009. When I read the articles this morning I realized how close your calculations were.

Thanks, I toiled over the figures quite a bit realizing a fire storm might ensue.

But after verifying the results independently, I felt were were on the right track. So I stuck my neck out there.

Boy is spelled B-O-Y, not B-O-I. What language are you speaking?

In some circles, usually teens and early twenty-somethings, spelling BOY as B O I is a colloquialism, of sorts.

Just thought you should know...

I know it too. It just bugs me that people put an "i" when they could just as easily put a "y".

solid run and effort for lexus. whether or not it beats the others in comparison tests, i think the editors will be surprised by what lexus has come up with.

overpriced....ugly....rice!

^ Unintelligible... Immature... Gibberish!

Fast for sure. Good news for those who like the Lexus drive and styling.

Exactly...

The worst thing that LEXUS can achieve with this vehicle is to expand its already very happy/loyal customer base.

Maybe that's why so many 'appear' to be so threatened by the appearance of this vehicle.

Note: One Theory.

DaHarder, I don't think anyone is "threatened" by this car. If we like it, we buy it. We're not simply German fans, we're car fans. Of course there are a certain few exceptions on this site, but most are not among them. If this car is amazing it will end up in my garage.

If I won this car in a contest I would sell it and get a BMW M3.

EL34 ;)

Well...isn't that nice?

The IS-F will have better resale, so you may as well put it towards an M5.

We'll see how it stacks up in the long run. People hate change, though. I don't know how many of you were around in 1989 but it was interesting seeing the response from the Germans that the Japanese were going to try luxury. This is their first real try at the extreme performance/luxury segment. It couls be a swing and a miss or 1989 all over again. Only time will tell.

I don't believe that (by the caliber/quality) of posts in here sometimes that many were even alive in 1989.

Who Knows?

Great article!

Finally someone else who agrees that driver ability is crucial when dealing with cars of this nature.

This also puts the car right up to par with the M3, RS4 so we will have to see their overall review. Most likely they will end up putting the M3 in first because of it's heritage and their backfilled pockets. But the debate is endless and you will soon see videos all over youtube of RS4, IS-F, M3 races. And someone in one of the cars will video the other guy slowing down for traffic or whatever and call it a HUGE win and what not. Either way, the IS-F is definitely a competitor in the performance spectrum.

Actually, the C63 AMG and RS4 have given the M3 a huge run for its money. The RS4 has beaten the M3 in at least half of the comparison tests they've been involved in... and I have no doubt that the C63 is just as good, if not better.

"Most likely they will end up putting the M3 in first because of it's heritage and their backfilled pockets."

So it has nothing to do with the fact that the M3 is an excelent car then? The fact that BMW wins many comparisons tests is because their cars are made for people who enjoy driving just for the sake of driving. I would think that most car magazine reviews are of that ilk.

I will be truly surprised, AND officially convinced of bias if the new M3 wins every single comparison test. Many initial reviews have flat-out said that it's not the best M3 it could have been, and that some of it's "magic" has been traded for comfort. A few have even stated the RS4 is better. And now we have all this information on the IS-F out which does not disappoint. All that AND the C63 is said to give the M3 a serious run for the money as well. If the M3 wins every single comparison test it is placed in, then we will all know that something fishy is up.

Yes, in a straight line the IS-F is on par with the phenomenal German Trio ...but so is a modified Ford Mustang. Where Lexus or the Mustang don't come even close is driving experience. So my question is..why would somebody choose the IS-F over the magnificent trio from Germany? The IS-F looks cartoonish, the steering gives no feedback, the suspension is c**p, the built quality is poor, the prestige is nonexistent. There is absolutely no reason to choose this car over the superior cars it supposedly competes with, other than price. Again, Lexus comes on the market with a car that tries to mimic the qualities of the fabulous German performance cars but never quite matches them. Why have a modest copy of a great product when you can have the real thing for a little more?

Star.

OMG did u just tell it like it is? lol Thats going to upset a lot of people (good thing) Good points!

telling it how it is? poor build quality?

people, vote no on medical marijuana

just edmunds though, not motortrend nor car and driver

Obviously straight line performance is only a small portion of the over performance factor. But it is the most easily predicted.

Actually it is very easy for a car to outscore another in all of the static tests (acceleration, braking, slalom, cornering g force) and still lose overall.

It is all about balance and only a track can determine that.

Where are those test numbers (is250 xpackaged vs. M3) 'cause that sounds very interesting to me?

Waitting for the review for E92 335 Vs Lexus IS-F.

What?

Sorry to break it to you, but the IS-F competes DIRECTLY with the M3... Not The 335i.

DaHarder

Brilliant deduction!

Waiting for you to graduate middle school..

Why not just a modified WRX STi or Civic or Lancer EVO? You the get same garbage ricer style with the same performance, plus you can save some green!

Honestly though, Lexus should worry about Infiniti, Acura, and Hyundai. The Japanese and Germans have totally different driving characteristics. It's like comparing apples with oranges.

I think it's a mistake for Lexus to try compete with the Germans when it's not their game. You either like one or the other. I don't see either side winning many converts.

How many times have we heard this NEW IS (3-series killer) is the nail in the coffin for BMW? Everytime a new one comes out. Same goes for the G35. Give it a rest! Just focus on your reliability Toyota, since that's taken a turn for the worse lately.

i think the "expert" in your ID is getting to you...

as you may know, the LS is a THREAT to the S-class and 7-series. you may not want to believe it, but i can guarantee you that MB and BMW both have one that they are dismantling in their facility rite now...studying its characteristics, etc.

the IS was a nail in the coffin when it came to the market...why do you think BMW had to throw in the twin turbo motor in the sedan? for kicks and giggles? if they didn't feel competition from both the IS350 and the G35, then they would of left the tt motor for the coupe, making it somewhat exclusive...

so now that BMW has regained the top teir...its not long before you see the G37 sedan or the IS370 (possibly). and when we do, you'll again see COMPETITION!!!

Well stated MidEngine

DaHarder,

Adding to you post and trying not to sound ethnically biased, but it is needless to mention German figures throught History have contributed more to western culture than any the Japanese.

Albert Einstein
Wolfgang A. Mozart
Ludvig Van Beethoven
Brahms
Karl Marx
Frederich Engels

To mention a few.

Whoops My comment was for MidEngine!

... and the japan as a whole has contributed more to technology and sophistication than the entire world. so what?

^ You're directing your response to me is quite understood since obviously you seem hell-bent on posing opposition to any/everything I post.

No problem...

So what, being Jewish makes them not German? What are you talking about?

obviously the 3-series would win out in sales. the IS2xx/3xx is in its 2nd generation and is steadily chopping away at the 3-series sales. No one expected the IS to beat the 3-series in terms of sales, but i can guarantee you it did take away some customers from the 3-series! the IS, to this day, is still more eye appealing than the 3-series sedan, the new c-class, and the current a4...i havent been able to see the new a4 design thoroughly as yet

as for the LS...heres a BMW's fan's review of it against the competitors.....

"So yesterday I went to the Taste of Lexus event for the Washington, DC area at FedEx field. It's a promotional autocross and "lifestyle" brand event. This year they were pushing their pre-production LS460 and pitting it against 750i and S550 on the same course.

Being that I love BMW way more than Lexus, I opted to drive the 750i first. I was a little overwhelmed with the interior - just wanted to adjust the volume, tune a station, put my ventilated seat on, and turn DSC off against Lexus' wishes. I only achieved turning down the volume in the short time before my lap started. I thought the i-drive screen was far from where I was sitting.

In short, I think there is a solid reason that BMW does not make an ///M7. A vehicle of this size (4500 pounds curb weight) simply does not hustle. Most alarming was the delayed throttle response. I felt it was a good "one-mississippi" before mashing the gas met with a surge in the engine. The car shouldered heavily into the turns and then exited slow because I didn't hit the throttle early enough to account for the delay. I have not experienced that since a 1.8T automatic.

750i verdict: electronics aside, I did not feel this vehicle drove better than the 1992 Ford Crown Victoria (still largely unchanged for the 2007 model year) I was driving before I got a real job and my 3'er.

I did not get a chance to drive the S550 myself, but I rode with my friend who waited in the line to hot-lap it. In the same period of time, I was able to turn off ESC, change the radio station, ventilate my seat and adjust the volume. I really liked the LCD dash cluster, the black leather stitched dash-top, and the center console. My friend got the S550 sideways with ease!

The Lexus LS460 does for full size sedans what the 3 series did for entry sport sedans. It's VERY easy to drive this car VERY fast. Simply put, it hustled the autocross track in a way I might need it to on a crowded city street full of cabs. Throttle response was quicker and it entered the turns more gracefully. The front-end styling is a little bland (think madeover Acura RL). The rear-end has a very aggressive trapezoid dual exhaust vent shape that contrasts well with darker colors. There is also a $20,000 executive seating package, which is outrageous because that costs more than most people's cars!

Also worth mentioning is that Lexus claimed 4200 pounds for the curb weight, about 300 less than BMW."

http://www.bimme

LexusAdmirer

Care to explain to everyone on this site exactly where are Jewish people from anyway?

Your comment not only interests me, but I think a great deal of others on this site whom would also like to know your thoughts on the topic.

Please explain.

www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169163

and for the copycat issue...

Mr. Toyoda himself used to travel around the world to collect ideas on making his weaving looms a better product. he used ohters ideas/technology and applied them to his specific uses for a better product. nothing wrong with applying another's technology...

and everyone is guilty of using other peoples ideas/tech...for instance, without the French there wouldnt be ABS braking, without the Swiss your 335i wouldnt have turbochargers...so before you bash on a countries advancement in using others ideas, acknowledge them for their uses and helping advance the systems we have today.

many of you all believe a german branded vehicle is the epitome of true greatness when, though they are high standardized, there are many as eqaully compelling vehicles from other manufacturers across the globe.

some of you just hate to see a piece of the pie being taken away rite from under you noses

r15mohd

What a BS article. I dont think anyone is going to beilieve the idiot that says a 7 series drives like a 1992 Ford Crown Victoria.

I know just about any idiot or liar can post anything online nowadays. Post that garbage somewhere else maybe a lexus website where they will actually believe you.

BS article...

this is from one of your very own, a true German fanboy...

i posted that article to show you how bias towards vehicles can be judged. i know the 7-series has nothing in terms with a Ford...

but you beleive the article where an outdated XJ was placed higher than the LS. even when the previous LS was placed higher than the XJ.

have you been able to drive all three vehicles on the stand?

the LS is equally as great a vehicle as the other two...though it may fall short in certain aspects, as do the others. give me any opne of these and i would be satisfied, but tell me i have to enjoy longevity, constistent comfort, and everything as a package...the LS does hold out as top notch.

R15mohd

but you beleive the article where an outdated XJ was placed higher than the LS. even when the previous LS was placed higher than the XJ.

What are you talking about? And since when does this post concern the LS anyway? Its a known fact that Jaguars are garbage nowadays and Lexus has surpassed them (I dont think anyone can argue that)

You bring up ridiculous articles hoping they will discredit others opinions on this blong. Try bringing up something RELEVANT and then you might have something.

the 5 compared vehicles where the LS placed last included the XJ...

irrelevant maybe, but i didnt bring up that article...just stating the viewpoints derived from it.

i'll agree with you on one thing...back to the IS-F

"but you beleive the article where an outdated XJ was placed higher than the LS. even when the previous LS was placed higher than the XJ."

THE XJ IS NOT OUTDATED!!!

Nobody gives Jaguar the respect they deserve. The XJ8 drives beautifully--fantastic handling, smooth ride, no dive, no body roll. I haven't driven the XJR but it's probably even better. Jaguars are certainly not "garbage," w209, and if you've ever seen a current XJ8 or new XK you'd know why. The X-Type (which is being pulled from the NA market) and the S-Type aren't real Jags, so yes, they are garbage. But the XJ is not and deserves its place among the top luxury sedans.

From the overtly biased comments so far...

Some Of You Guys Have Been Sucking On Way Too Much Wienerschnitzel!

The IS-F has arrived, and it IS Very Competitive with other Compact Super-Sedans.

PERIOD!

It will sell because it will give the most bang for the buck in straight line performance for those who want performance + luxury. I'm guessing it will fall short to overthrown the mighty M3 and RS4 from their top seats. But as I stated, it will sell alot.

I believe I read that Lexus is only planning on building 200-300 a year for the states. There are 200-300 Lexus dealers in the country. So on average each dealer will get one a year, though in reality the big markets will get a couple and small ones will get none. That's one way to sell out of something I guess.

i think the numbers are crossed for you...they intend to issue about 5000 vehicles. hoping to sell about 200-300 monthly.

Wait till the G38TT Coupe and Sedan come out. 473hp for an Infiniti sedan should help to blow the Toyota's numbers out.

interesting theory, but one problem. The car you're basing that on, the Nissan GTR, costs $80k. The IS-F, M3, RS4, C63 are $60k. You can't really make the GTR into an Infiniti and make it LESS expensive, so how much is the more upscale Infiniti version going to cost?

At this price level, I think a majority of auto enthusiasts would invest in the real thing (RS4,M3,AMG)with a proven history and not a cartoonish looking auto whose design is geared for post adolescent 'drifters'. Might as well get a Subaru.

I can appreciate their effort, but I don't think Lexus is going to pry too many fans away from the Germans.

They have simply given their devotees that can't get enough Lexus something to aspire to when they get their drivers permit.

There is no need to argue about all of this. The IS-F is a good performance car, and thats the point. It may not be as good as the German trio, but it still gives them competition, especially when it comes to price. Well done Lexus.

P.S isnt it obvious that everyone is gonna put their brand 1st when it comes to ranking them?!

It's never obvious enough, I suppose. There is always hope for change.

there are times when even i feel like trading in the cars which i own, all being german, for the reliability of japanese cars like a lexus.

like the nissan gtr, the isf seems to offer a good combination of looks, performance and quality on par with germans with the worry-free reliability surpassing the germans.

gotta appreciate the beauty & style of euro cars, but any owner of a german car knows this. never thought id consider a nissan at this age, but the thought of owning a gtr is exciting.

Here comes an even bigger spanking than your already getting boys!!!!!!!!

The sad part is you can spank some all day and all night, and they still never learn...

^ "Do you honestly believe the IS-F is going to win comparison tests between the C63, M3, and RS4"

And I DON'T CARE... And In The (Day-To-Day) Real World, It Won't Matter Either.

What I'm trying to get some of you to understand is that...

There's so much more to a satisfying automotive ownership experience than can be assessed by how the vehicle performs at the track or in a comparison test.

The IS-F is important because it not only incorporates Super-Sedan Performance, but includes the promise of Reliability, Dealer Service, Luxurious Ride Characteristics et all for which LEXUS is so (justifiably) famous.

LEXUS seem to struck a wonderful BALANCE heretofore unachieved in this segment between (what many LEXUS owners perceive as true) Luxury and High Performance, and I, for one, applaud their efforts, and it matters not one iota that I'm a M3 driver.

Why can't people simply accept that CHOICE IS GOOD?

Do you really think the new M3, RS4 and C63 AMG (none of which you've driven) are not luxurious? That they don't have comfortable rides and aren't easy to live with? You are completely 100% wrong, my friend. The IS-F sounds great but it doesn't break any new ground.

^ For LEXUS, as a company venturing into a different market, the IS-F Breaks Plenty Of New Ground!

Check Your Facts S4, I've owned Every Iteration of BMW's Famed M3 (e30 through E46), and they are very nice performance cars, but are hardly what I'd consider Luxurious... In the classic sense of the word i.e. spacious, coddling etc.

My E54/4.8is is more 'luxurious' than my E46/M3 ever thought to be, and I'm fine with that.

Note: As much as I appreciate some of your posts, often coming to your defense when justified, you tend to be a real arrogant a$$ at times... Just wanted you to know.

"...you tend to be a real arrogant a$$ at times..."

You know, sometimes it's justified. You usually exhibit the same behavior.

And, as for the rest of your post... YOU HAVEN'T DRIVEN THE NEW M3!!! And from the reviews, it trades a bit of the sharpness of the old model for significantly better comfort and drivability. It has two sides; it's a cruiser for day-to-day use and a racer for fun. I haven't driven it either, but every review has mentioned this.

"For LEXUS, as a company venturing into a different market, the IS-F Breaks Plenty Of New Ground!"

For Lexus, obviously, but not for anyone else. The IS-F isn't the car that's going to push the competition to go back to the drawing board. It's "as good," but not "better."

if youve ever driven a plymouth, chrysler, ford, jeep or just about any other american car, youll definitely know what is not luxury. makes a bmw e46 m3 feel like a bentley. heh.

lol DaHarder,

Finally someone else realized what I've know about S4Cabriofox for years now!

Actually test drive the damn thing and let us know your figures :)

I constantly hear how C&D drivers are old and can't drive...lol. So they were able to pull off a .5-.6 jump from the other experts. As stated in another thread..did C&D use higher octane fuel? For reputable mags to have such a big gap in performance is rare.

I know that a car off the line can be built just right and have better numbers than the car built before or after it. But this is rediculous. This all with an automatic too!!!

It has an automatic transmission, so it was probably more about the conditions than the driver. 009 may be wrong on that point. Although the tire spin is probably hard to control.

This is a hot car. I've driven the RS4 and it's incredible. I will re-drive that, as well as the C63, IS-F and M3. Whichever grabs me by my heart and then by my wallet will end up in my garage. Let the races begin!

too much difference between the car and driver test and the other tests. sounds like a ringer. the mt test numbers are probably the most relible.

0-60 is limited by grip, the extra hp would do little there, but it doesn't make sense that it would run the same 1/4 mile as an 800 lighter Corvette

I'll wait for one more review or a group comparison. Tests vary.

BTW, Motorweek got the RS4 0-60 in 4.2 seconds as well. However, most RS4 0-60 times put in in the 4 and a half second range. Conditions and cars vary.

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2604b.shtml

when you own a mercedes,bmw and lexus in your garage you will know why the next car you add to your collection is a lexus.The only car that shows the least wear and tear is the lexus,it may be 2 years old but still runs and looks like new.

I believe germans make incredible cars,although lexus does not share the same heritage as the germans but they have definatly surpassed all expectations from day one.This is just the start of a new journey for lexus.

Agreed, and I only wish that people can look beyond brand/country of origin, can see the achievement here.

Note: The great part is that the dozen or so that are so adamantly opposed to all things Non-German/European in here obviously represent a small portion of the car buying public, as LEXUS sales are as strong (in the U.S... the LARGEST Market in the World) as ever.

"in the U.S... the LARGEST Market in the World"

But it's not the whole world :)

I have two Audis and a Lexus in my garage... the Lexus will soon be replaced by a BMW or Mercedes-Benz.

Do not confuse reliability with "wear and tear." Two years old is nothing. Our RX330 is going to be five soon and Lexus models definitely DON'T hold up well. It's been reliable, yes, perfect. But then again so have my Audis, and their interiors have not looked so aged. The Lexus's seats are badly worn (driver's seat more than the rest, of course), some door pieces are coming off and the rubber door liner broke off last month. I also occasionally hear strange sounds from the exhaust, but there does not appear to be anything wrong with the engine. It runs well, but it is not built to the standard I would expect of a $50K luxury car.

I ran into similar problems with wear and tear. The Lexus cars were showing wear and tear after just the first 2 years.

The leather was wrinkled and tattered after just two years. The car however was mechanically sound but the LS looked like it went through a sand storm after 3.5 years.

The LS ran great and needed no repairs but became an embarrassment to park out front. Reliability has its merits, but like a old pair of shoes while they make still work fine. If they look like hell then you have to replace them.

The five Lexus I have owned have had no major problems with wear and tear, only creases in the leather seats...

Quarter mile in 12.7? The slowest car in my gargage, a cls 55 does the quarter in 12.4, and the Mercedes is an overweight pig. I'm not impressed by the Lexus...

Something about that comment leads me to believe that you can't afford to lease a new C300, let alone have the "slowest car in your garage" be a CLS55 AMG. People with class simply don't say things like that.

Of course not! And I don't believe him. The CLS55 is bigger, heavier and less-powerful than the IS-F; it also had a mere five-speed transmission.

'under a very big cough'......

*J3RK*

Uhm S4, the CLS 55 has 485hp and 700nm of torque, thats a shitload more powerfull then the IS-F.

Whoops, for some reason I thought it had the 369hp V8 from the C55 AMG. Silly me.

Come on guys, I think credit should go where credit is due - I have placed an order for a C63AMG and I have always been an AMG fan/buyer - but I think the Lexus IS-F seems to be a pretty brilliant car! Don't forget that this is Lexus' first attempt at a serious compact super sports saloon and as far I can recall, only BMW (with the first generation M3) among all the German manufacturers managed to succeed on their first attempt (although this segment didn't even exist when BMW started). Lexus however has managed to come up with a beast (based on the cooking IS range which, frankly, has pretty uninspired handling to put it politely) that all three tests acknowledge as definitely capable of swimming in the big pool with all the other established German big boys - shouldn't that count as something?

Anyway, I just think it's spectacular that us - the consumers - now have so many brilliant and practical super performance saloons to choose from - all of which are pretty much in exotic car territory in terms of performance but with no compromise on practicality and reliability - just BRILLIANT I say!!!!

Yes, I agree 100%. All of these cars are so fu¢king amazing. Like I said, I want one of each.

Nice choice with the C63! An amazing new Mercedes. Post an article when you get it!

Great post marcust, the IS-F should definitely be given the credit it deserves. If the magazines respect it enough to compare it to the M3, RS4 and C63 then why shouldn't anyone one this site do the same? All four of these cars should be commended for their excelent engineering and performance.

Come on guys, I think credit should go where credit is due - I have placed an order for a C63AMG and I have always been an AMG fan/buyer - but I think the Lexus IS-F seems to be a pretty brilliant car! Don't forget that this is Lexus' first attempt at a serious compact super sports saloon and as far I can recall, only BMW (with the first generation M3) among all the German manufacturers managed to succeed on their first attempt (although this segment didn't even exist when BMW started). Lexus however has managed to come up with a beast (based on the cooking IS range which, frankly, has pretty uninspired handling to put it politely) that all three tests acknowledge as definitely capable of swimming in the big pool with all the other established German big boys - shouldn't that count as something?

Anyway, I just think it's spectacular that us - the consumers - now have so many brilliant and practical super performance saloons to choose from - all of which are pretty much in exotic car territory in terms of performance but with no compromise on practicality and reliability - just BRILLIANT I say!!!!

Based on the historical fact that some posters here prefer to believe their version of reality, rather than the truth, I'd say the "official" stat would be the one by Edmunds inside Line. Lexus has officially beaten BMW in their own game.

Edmunds was the one with the unfavorable review. Care to revise that comment?

This Lexus IS-F run from 0-60 in 4.2s, wow that is fast..... If the number is accurate, it the fastest in it class. The Lexus LF-A with rumor to have 570+hp is definitely going to be much faster tha this.

This is their first attempt in making a true sportcar, and it had outstanding performance.
Can you imagine what the next gen is like?

Great Job Lexus

I love cars too. (-:

"Lexus," the IS-F appears to be quicker than the M3, but the RS4 has also achieved a 4.2 sec 0-60 time and the C63 AMG will probably be quicker than either due to its monstrous engine.

My ratings, for the "best of" list:

Audi RS4: best steering feel and AWD practicality
BMW M3: best handling and comfort/performance compromise
Lexus IS-F: best transmission and luxury features
Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG: best engine and styling

I think the C63AMG will be the fastest in a straight line.

I saw revised gear ratio specs in a European magazine and plugged them into my program. The 0-60 for the C63AMG is now 4.1 seconds with the revised specs. 0-100 is 10.3 and the 1/4 mile is 12.7 at 112.6 mph.
But we will have to wait and see what the real results are.

After reading a lot of the responses on here to the results of the IS-F and the predictions by the writer i have come to one, very amusing conclusion regarding the whole japan/german lexus/bmw/merc battles......

The german fanboys are now clutching at straws.

Such feeble comments such as 'id pay the extra 5k for the suspension set up alone' in my opinion is absolute b******t, Will someone (hopefully someone like S4cabrio or EL34) be an adult about it and admit that Lexus have made a better car than is currently available from the germans.

I doubt very much whether they'd have the balls to do it after all the slating and hating ive seen on here over the past few months.

One more thing, .......whoever is posting as NICAD, please shutup, you only serve to make Lexus admirers look like 10 year olds with your 'mines bigger than yours' attitude. Trust me, it isnt!

lexus has proved that they are reliable cars,i would purchase this car just based on their reliability.

the germans are great,unfortunatly they dont run like they are suppose to after 30000mi.if they could solve that problem..german all the way..

pls keep in mind the german cars of the 70's and 80's were very reliable,today not so much.

kkobty,

the germans are great,unfortunatly they dont run like they are suppose to after 30000mi.if they could solve that problem..german all the way..

What are you talking about? check out my post a benz does 4.6 million KM, you heard right 4.6 million K's from ONE engine, in that time 500 lexus engines died.

i dare you to compare the amount of toyota/lexus vehicles still running with 250k+ miles, even 500k+ miles to those of BMW.

numerous toyota's have crossed the million mile mark, and are still running today.

but thats besides the point as those are older, even more rleiable motors. lets check some instances from today...

a good friend of mine has a couple vids on youtube...he has a 15 month old toyota Yaris with 175k miles on it...only scheduled maintenances done and ticking perfectly. commendable of course.

and to top it off, the car has minial mods done to it as well...thats toyota reliability!!!

type: yaris --> miles

i personally would never try that with any german vehicle available to me rite now!

Lexus has more up its sleave ... You know just by watching the the LF-A II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-uW6vIcMGQ)

I think this is only the beginning for them.

When I was a kid I had posters of German, Italian and British cars in my bedroom, I dreamt of one day owing such beauty. Now I drive a 2005 Black 500SL with red interior, I see the look on peoples face when I hop into my car, I see their envy and I feel like a rock star. If I jumped in a lexus I would be a wannabe try hard, no thanks I like being a rock star.

PS And for those people out there I don't buy a car for what other people think, I'm stating the fact german cars have a luxury feel that was built on 100 years of excellence, lexus or any other brand can't walk in and just make that happen overnight with one crapy rice burner. Sorry its not that easy,lexus you have a long,long way to go my friend.

Thanks for sharing with everyone the fact that you care more about what other people think than what is important to you. Wait, that is what is important to you. You narcissistic, pathetic excuse of a man.

You all call yourselves enthusiasts. Start acting like one. Choose you car based on the car itself, not on whether or not the sales associate at Barney's will recognize the badge.

This is the exact same rhetoric that gets me peeved about 75% of the posts in here, it's all about 'I drive this, or I drive that'...

It often sounds more like the CAR OWNS YOU rather Than YOU OWNING THE CAR!

Personally, I've been driving (so-called) premium automobiles (BMW/Jaguar/Range Rover/etc.) long enough to know that they are just AUTOMOBILES/Transportation Modules, and should be appreciated for how do their jobs, and how they make you feel... NOT how they make others feel about YOU!!

Those who are so devoid of any respectable/admirable HUMAN attribute as to have to drive a particular make/model of an automobile to feel of worth/importance, are simply pathetic, and should seriously re-evaluate what is truly important in life... character/integrity/self-respect.

I swear, when someone comes up to me and goes on and on about one of my vehicles, I courteously state, "Yes, I like it quite a bit, but I'd take the (known attribute of their vehicle) of (insert vehicle make here) over it most days".

From the way many speak on here, all they care about is how to ONE-UP the Next Guy with either performance (S4 - 5k worth of suspension/handling for you - wink), price, or brand origin/image.

I, for one, have probably purchased my last BMW, partly because I simply do not want to be 'associated with these kinds of people' or this image of being 'better than someone' else and partly because there are just too many vehicles that I (personally) find more desirable than either my M3 or my X5... and YES, some of those vehicles are Japanese and some are American.

As far as LEXUS' effort here is concerned, it appears that they've done their job well, because there's obviously much concern about its presence in the market if this place is any indication...

Great Job Lexus!

DaHarder, I agree with the bulk of that comment, but I'm sick of your attacks on me. What is wrong with wanting a car with a better suspension? Please, enlighten me with your obviously extensive knowledge.

xj13 That must be your age,so you think your a rock-star,because you drive a Merc SL500. People are looking at you add Laughing,thinking look at that poser rockstar what a joke.This is a great example why people over-pay for a Mercedes,BMW,they think their car makes them better looking,smarter or more succesful than they are.That's called low self-esteem.

People look at you when you get in your car because youre always looking around hoping someone is watching you. You are probably the same type of person that doesnt get tints so that they can be seen. I wouldnt be suprised if you lived with your parents and spent all of your money on interest for a car you really cant afford.

Good point. It is extremely important to maintain a car and get it serviced regularly. Without proper care just about any car's life would be cut drastically short.

A perfect example of how much of a difference it makes is my 1973 280 (equivalent to the E550 of today) with about 74K miles on it. I treat it better than my new car and it looks showroom new. Without proper maintenance, garaging, or regular services from the previous owners the car would be a different story today.

wow 43k already...

my GS is about 14 months old and have just hit 8500 miles...its none my main commuter, i have a 4-cyl for that.

but i have a 1998 ES300 sitting in myd river rite now, which shines as it did when i first bought it the leatehr does show aging (no rips/tears/cracking, just looks older) but 10yrs of FL sun does that to the any vehicle.

i truly agree vehicle maintenance and upkeeping is key. my odyssey is a 2001 and has 160k miles on it and looks like it just stepped out the showroom floor. not one ding/scratch/fading spot...leather is constantly maintained.

i take pride in my vehicle upkeeping and it shows!

anyone would know that

Yes. With the previous 3 Lexus I've owned, not including my most recent 2, the only major wear and tear that showed was creases in the leather. Agent009 and S4Cab's rants about Lexus wear and tear are truly just testaments to a lack of refined care of their vehicles...

Oh, please. You have no idea. I am meticulous with my cars. My wife isn't, but she makes an effort. She puts the car through "normal" use. It shouldn't have wrinkled seats in three years through normal use. There should be nothing coming off of a car I paid $50K for. It should still be in near-perfect condition; my A6 was when the lease was up with 87,000 mi. The Lexus just topped 50K.

Well of course only your word equals automotive gospel. "Your wife's Lexus" has a mirror fall off, that means Lexus's reputation for quality isn't true...

It amuses me that you remember something that happened at the beginning of the summer, something that I had forgotten until you posted it. You must hang on to my every word.

The RX's mirror fell off because of the car wash.

It is the interior pieces I'm more concerned about.

Your trite sarcasm is getting old.

Oh, I'm sorry I missed a few of your weekly updates on her Lexus. Forgive me, I was actually living my own life.

This is coming from the person who mentioned the problem with my wife's car's mirror in the first place...?

I know you don't live vicariously through others, but at least don't pretend I'm the one who brought that up. Like I said, I hadn't even remembered before you put it in your post.

no surprises here.

it's really fast (but not for a 5.0 liter V-8 vs. M3's 4.0 liter with less torque). rides rough. handles well but lacks feedback. and looks like a cartoon.

edmunds summed it up fairly well:

"If it seems that our enthusiasm for the IS-F is mixed, you're right. While we can appreciate all the work that went into this performance-minded, track-worthy Lexus, we're more than a little put off by its harsh ride on the street. Is this truly a usable high-performance car, or just a car for extreme profiling?

There's also something about the gimmicky styling. The most telling trace of disingenuousness can be found in those stacked quad exhaust "resonators," as Lexus describes them. We discovered that not one of the chromed ovals is directly plumbed to the muffler and are instead part of the rear fascia. They're there just for looks.

There's too much of this car that reminds us of the supersonic jet-powered sports cars we all used to draw on our denim binders back in third grade."

and fake exhausts on a performance cars...come on. still an imitation...

you really can't argue with 'fake' performance features like the exhaust pipes. and you may like the cartoon looks, but i'd be embarrassed to drive it.

and the handling, well, that's fine if you don't care for feedback. then again, you drive a GS, so that's the kind of handling you prefer.

Fake exhausts. How ricey is that.

Really though, this car is an enormous dissapointment. It had to be clearly better than the competition. But it's still not even as good as the competition. Better luck next time Lexus!

Not a big lexus fan, nor do I know much about it.

How much is the production run per year and how much is the target sales number?

Dont ever care for a lexus personally. Still going to keep my order on the M3 because it can turn a corner and has real sport seats.

or they test their cars downhill...

I think the claims of the design being cartoonish are a bit over the top remarks, and i think edmunds is the only online magazine that calls the ride uncomfortable, the other publishers call the ride firm but pretty good for normal motoring. And why would anyone buy this car over the german trio: simple because the buyer may want something for a change from his usual lot of german cars, or probably some savings in price (ISF will be cheaper than all of the other ones) while getting performance that is level on terms with the M3 or the RS4, as well as for Lexus reliability and customer service; but if it was me i would buy the car because of that V8 grunt, that sounds phenomenal and if it drives on terms with M3 then there is no question, if i had enough money i would have gone for the Lexus ISF.

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/reviews/lexus/7231138/0710_10_z+2008_lexus_is-f+data_chart.jpg

I just want to say I'm a huge German fan and not a Lexus fan so I am slightly biased, but I do want to point out that apart from the RS4, Audis released BEFORE that drove like crap. Understeer and under powered (functional flat torque curve, just boring as hell).

I owned a A4 1.8T S-line quattro and now I own an Evo 9 (that shows I'm not a brand snob). The Audi interior is a world apart from the Mitsubishi by the same magnitude the similar displacement engines are world's apart.

The all wheel drive system in the Evo is also far, far superior and the Evo goes way harder. Fair enough, Audi invested in build quality and top knotch components but for car enthusiasts that should come after driving dynamics and performance.

Moral of the story: pre-RS4 and excluding old RS models, I don't think normal Audis were that far ahead of Lexus in handling.

So, Lexus knows how to build a performance car. Gone are the notions of "prestige and history" being a prerequisite in building a performance car. Gone are the notions of the entire island of Japan never being able to match a German vehicle. Gone are the notions of Lexus never building a car with handling capabilities.

Sure, there are reasons to not like this car. The main one I can think of for most naysayers here is that it still isn't German, which is a fair argument if country of origin is your main priority, and not the actual merits of the car...

No, it's looks. At this point, that would be the only reason to dislike any of these cars from a sane view. They all have excellent performance, with superior handling, straight-line speed, engines and gearboxes. They reward the driver after work, but that doesn't mean they can't take you to work comfortably and stress-free. That is what makes all of them so great. They are the real everyday supercars of the world, for real people, most of whom can't afford a 911 or R8 but a used M3.

And, frankly, I think they all look as good as they drive. The IS-F looks incredible in white, red and black. The RS4's best colors are Sprint Blue, their brilliant red and gray with the Titanium Package. The M3's signature seems to be white or hot red. The C63 looks best in gunmetal gray. They all look good; the question is, which one looks BEST?

I'm not yet decided, actually. I will drive all of them and come away with a winner...

Are we honestly to believe that you will "drive all of them" and put anything other than the RS4 in your driveway? You already did bypass all the other brands for an S4 and A3. The only cars you have blabbered on about "considering for your driveway" are German ones (a 1-Series, a 3-Series, an M3, an RS4, an RS6, an R8, a 911 etc.) You only stated an interest in the LS460 for your wife yet again. I can't fathom you overcoming your subconscious bias for German marques and actually purchase an IS-F. And we all know that if in some parallel universe you did purchase one, as soon as someone attacked the car, you'd join in on the fun talking about a mirror falling off your "wife's IS-F."

You are absolutely ridiculous. Wow. Troll in disguise.

I don't have anything to prove to you. I will drive the IS-F. If I love it, I buy it. If I like the Germans more, I buy one of them. There will be no brand names involved. Case closed.

Furthermore, if I cared that much about the badge, why would I have bought a $65,000 Audi? They're highly regarded everywhere else... but here, I could've bought a BMW instead. I didn't. I don't care about the badge. I care about the car. It just so happens that some characteristics are synonymous with the badges through experience and reputation.

I'm backpedaling again--I simply cannot fathom your continued hatred (distrust?) of/for my comments. I say I like the IS-F, you say I'm lying? I've never met someone so paranoid.

You sir, are the ridiculous one, hiding behind your wife's Lexus and a few generalized flattering statements about the brand to cover up your European bias. You don't have to get so offended and malicious. I make no bones about having a Japanese bias. You on the other hand feel like you have something to prove to everyone here about not having a preference when you clearly do. Just admit you'll buy either an RS4 or an M3 due to those "synonymous badge experience reputations" and call it a night.

No, because that is simply incorrect. There is no other way to show you over the Internet than writing it.

I don't know how else to put it. I'm not "hiding" behind my wife's Lexus; I'm eager to get rid of it. It is not their best moment.

I don't know why you feel entitled to make judgements about my own automotive desires, nor do I know why you are being so immature. Why wouldn't I want to drive a 416hp, V8-powered, great-handling sports sedan? That is the question, and you are trying to answer it for me. You are putting words in my mouth. Who cares if I end up with a German sedan? I will still admire the IS-F, as I know it is a fine piece of engineering. What makes you think I don't recognize that? You sound a bit insane. Go to sleep.

And seriously, I DON'T have a preference right now. I wouldn't be able to go out and buy one of these cars without thinking about the other three and what I could've had instead. Please, just leave me and my opinions alone. I may not like some Lexus models, but I like many of the new ones, and I don't generalize by brand. Obviously, not "all" Lexuses are bland. Not "all" BMW owners are posers. Not "all" Audis are based on VW platforms. Not "all" Mercs are overpriced.

I don't know why I'm rambling and why I'm still discussing this, but it is interesting. I am still shocked by the fact that you can't accept how I like the IS-F. It's a lose-lose situation with you, Will. If I'm on the "wrong" side, I'm on your black list for life.

Because you're annoying, that's all. "I complimented Lexus, therefore you're not allowed to call me biased, threfore you're not allowed to or judge or question my opinions about Lexus not being up to German standards (in a future statement), therefore you have no choice but to believe everything I type over the internet." You've done that forever. You have no choice but to compliment the IS-F now, with 2 out of 3 positive reviews on it, but there's no doubt in my mind that you would by any of the other three before the Lexus.

If you buy an IS-F, I'll buy an M3.

But for now, while initial impressions of the IS-F are still good, I'll concede and compliment you on your Lexus "unbiased"-ness.

There is no ulterior motive here! It's not some conspiracy, nor am I trying to look any more chemically balanced than I already am!

It's an awesome car, and I am "allowed" to like it, regardless of the badge. I don't care what you think, to be honest. I'm just stating my opinion of the car, and even though you feel the same way, you assume something that just isn't true! I'm a performance car enthusiast! I love performance cars, Lexuses included.

I can't stress this enough: I'm not even sure I'd buy an RS4 over the IS-F at this point. I would have to wait for the new one, because the C63, M3 and IS-F have made the RS4 look old. The C63 is at the top of my list right now, but the BMW and Lexus have both caught my eye... and the RS4 is still one of my favorites. Perhaps another test drive will make me fall in love with it again.

Will! Seriously! Get a life!

You are making this seem like more than it really is!

And, if he actually doesn't like Lexus, who cares?! From what I can see of S4, he likes some Lexus but not all, and feels free to say what he likes about them, and what he does not. Nobody is TIED down to a set of beliefs if they don't have to be. Some are, some aren't.

Anyways, I am no psychologist, so I will refrain from condemning S4.

You say that the reason you are on S4's case is that he is annoying? Well, who made you the police? Many could call YOU annoying!

Anyways, carry on...

Some may find YOU annoying, but the simple fact is that this is a silly internet forum. Sorry a simple exchange of dialogue NOT involving you got you so bothered and inspired to respond... the same way S4Cab always does... go figure.

It will.

Good point! boost for you.

Yes, I completely agree.

Great engine/performance, do not care for isf exterior. Added sports package to 550. Air dam/side sills. Very subtle. Remember fuss over sc430, grew old pretty fast.

Great engine/performance, do not care for isf exterior. Added sports package to 550. Air dam/side sills. Very subtle. Remember fuss over sc430, grew old pretty fast.