TOKYO NO SHOWS: Are The LF-A and the NSX Already Failing To Make The Grade?

Lexus is saying that they failed... not autospies. People didn't say its a failure.

The problem again is a shift from current philosophy to a degree for both companies.

Look at the IS for example. Redesigned for 2006 and no significant improvements for 3 years (2006,2007, and now 2008? The NSX never had the commitment to be near the top for any length of time, it was underpowered marginally from the beginning and it only got worse.

Now they have been touting 500 hp for over 4 years now for the LF-A and the NSX and the figure hasn't changed.

Now we are entering 2008 where an Audi station wagon (RS6) will have 575hp and possibly an option for 610hp.

The LF-A and the NSX are simply not progressing as fast as the rest of the industry. It becomes a very real problem when a station wagon could out perform your halo car.

Now I do admit the IS-F is a step in the right direction in a big way, but it remains to be seen if there is the overall commitment to remain on top at all costs.

This is what the performance market dictates. Second place may not be good enough anymore.

The R8 you drove will be the base engine. That is why the turbo v10 is currently testing. That will be the premium power plant. Both the LF-A and the NSX so far will only have one power plant, they both say one hp rating as well. That could change.

06GS300 - Edmund's did the research, not me, I am just pointing you guys to their data.

The IS-F hasn't outperformed any of it's rivals so far.

THe Honda NSX at that was pretty up there in 1991 with 'only 280hp', back then the Porsche 911 Carrera had 250 hp and the Ferrari 348 GTB had 280hp.

...and the Porsche 965 had 360hp. What 009 is saying is that through the years of production, the NSX kept its lower power rating while competing cars like Porsche and Ferrari were always having at each other. By the time the NSX phased out of production, the 996 turbo was making 450hp. The Honda was never in it to win, you could say.

Nicad- If I was a hater as you suspect, then why did I side with Lexus on the IS-F performance, and then back it up? Maybe perhaps I call it as I see it?

You need to drop the insecurity, and realize that both of these cars are shooting for a very lofty goal and missing it is not an option.

Every month a new supercar pushes the envelope and they are not used to having to be on top of it all of the time. Face it they are used to releasing a model and only changing colors for 3 to 4 years. This is a very different animal for them. Now they have to not only try to debut on top but try to stay there as well.

They are doing the right thing, but I think it is a struggle for them. Locking in on a HP for 3 or 4 years simply won't cut it.

nicad, the IS-F isn't faster or quicker than any of its rivals. It's right up there in terms of acceleration, but top speed is completely different. The German three are LIMITED to 155mph. That is not their ACTUAL top speed. Don't believe me? Check out the option to TAKE OUT THE LIMITER on all AMG models. The R8 doesn't have a limiter, either, and Porsche is exempt. It was just an Audi/BMW/Merc agreement.

nicad, the IS-F isn't faster or quicker than any of its rivals. It's right up there in terms of acceleration, but top speed is completely different. The German three are LIMITED to 155mph. That is not their ACTUAL top speed. Don't believe me? Check out the option to TAKE OUT THE LIMITER on all AMG models. The R8 doesn't have a limiter, either, and Porsche is exempt. It was just an Audi/BMW/Merc agreement.

"but that's the point, Lexus didn't limit it at 155 and made it faster."

Take a hint! They don't really have a choice! Audi, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have made a GENTLEMEN'S AGREEMENT! That means that if someone breaks it for any of their non-sports cars (the R8 can break it, but not the RS4; SLR McLaren but not CLK63 AMG), that company will look like a prick. Lexus is not in the agreement and therefore have no obligation to limit their cars.

It's not "beautiful" in the traditional sense of the word. I'm glad they're redesigning it and I hope it looks good.

that car is hideous lol and to think, lexus fanboys use it as an argument FOR lexus good looks... what good looks???

It's his opinion nicad, if you weren't so insecure you wouldn't attack him for not agreeing with you.

Thank you Kinger... opinion indeed.

...and no, you dont have to agree.

I'm certainly no admirer of the LF-A's looks (far too Amime for my taste), but, I find it rather disturbing that after all this time, LEXUS has yet to iron out styling/aerodynamic issues.

We'll see what LEXUS have wrought soon enough... Maybe?

and the rest of the performance world continues to progress...with production cars. not prototypes and press releases.

And you don't think the Germans do the same??? The new C-Class was the most extensively tested Mercedes ever. I don't think it's the best, but the C63 AMG is certainly up there.

Oh, yeah I got my car. =] It is unbelievable. Me and her had a nice little night out tonight... The handling/acceleration/drivability is indiscribable. It is unlike and better than anything I have ever driven. The steering is telepathic, the ride is comfortable yet rigid, and the looks. Oh dear god does this turn heads like no other! The question I get the most is "What is it?!" and then subsequently, "How much does it cost?!" lol and I reply, too much... However, I must conclude with "It's worth every penny..."

oh and i have a few pictures posted on my profile if you want to check it out...

go ahead and deboost one of the few that actually has one of the cars talked about on this website. it only shows how pathetic your life is...

Beautiful. But why are you in front of it in some of those pictures? Move over and let us see the whole thing!

The Nissan GTR is Fugly and the Lexus LFA is Pugly.

:(

I think the GT-R has raised the bar quite a bit. So Toyota and Honda are going to take their sweet ass time.

Stop your whining. The title is in question form and not stated as a fact. What would your title be? Would it make people go read the entry?

Thanks! Your check is in the mail.... shhh don't tell anyone

I think it would be really funny, if Lexus come out with an upper LF-A and call it LF-A. And instead of having have 570hp like the base model, it will have 650hp.

If this actually happen, we all know that some German fanboys or fangirls will get really piss.

Just accept the fact that Japanese know how to make a super sportcars. Nissan GT-R, it base model run 0-60 in 3.5s, just imagine the upper model GT-R would do with 550+hp?

Honda NSX is making a come back with a V10 engine and the Lexus LF-A with 570+hp under it hood. And don't forget about the Toyota Supra to.

Great job Lexus....

Why would we "get really piss?" Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi and Porsche do not have cars in this segment.

Yeah the Japanese know how to make a super sports car like the Honda Civic.

When concepts take this long to come to fruition, you have to start wondering if they ever will.

The LF-A is nice, but it grows less exciting as each month goes by.

Ditto the NSX. The constant rumours and speculation of its return just prove frustrating when nothing comes of them.

audi has the r8 v8/v10. benz has the slr/sl amg/upcoming slc amg. porsche had the carrera gt. bmw has high hopes.

all considered in the supercar segment. ive said it before here: the upcoming decade will be the comeback of japanese sportscars like the 90s. 2000s has been all euro.

And it has been fabulous. Who can out-thrust who will be an awesome fight to see. Almost all of the luxury (and some non-luxury, Nissan I'm looking at you) brands will have a supercar in one form or another. BMW will have whatever is coming, Mercedes will have the P8 to replace the aging SLR, Audi has the R8, Lexus will have the LF-A, Acura/Honda will have the NSX, Porsche has the Turbo and GT2, Ferrari (obviously), Lamborghini (ditto) and Maserati will have a new hi-po GranTurismo, as well as a possible separate vehicle that will be more focused on performance. Jaguar may even have another XKR-R, Aston has the DBS, Bugatti, Nissan has the GT-R, Chevy has the Z06 (and the ZR1), Bentley has the CGT Speed, Toyota could have another Supra.

Granted, almost none of these cars compete directly, but they all represent the highest achievements of engineering for their respective marques. It will be interesting... and it will get dirty. Watch as the twin-turbos, the ultra-low-profile tires and the superlight suspensions are added in.

Toyota and Nissan want to make a statement. Basically telling the auto loving public that Toyota and Nissan can build cars better than them (Germans, Italians, basically Europe and USA). And if the LF-A and NSX do not at least meet or break the competition then back to drawing board. Not sure about Nissan, but Toyota has the $$$ in the bank to do this.

Just wanted to let you know that NSX is Honda/Acura. Although Honda has the money the question is will they spend it. Drop a V10 in it with cyc deactivation will probally be there philosophy and settle for 500hp but have like 23mpg.

Uhh...the LF-A is there!

Just scroll about half way down:

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=3201041&rid=0

That's just the concept.

Nice photo gallery, though. There were some sweet cars there!

lol. pwned!

Friggin' fugly :(

Herb Tarlek? Was that not a sitcom character?

Learn how to look more closely.
Firstly, the Porsche GT2 has nothing to do with top speed. It is made for incredible track performance.

Secondly, the new RS6 isn't even on sale or tested yet. Only conservitive factory numbers have been stated.
But seing as the first RS6 was governed at 155mph, did 0-60 in 4.5 sec and a querter mile in 13.0 sec. Let alone the slightly more powerfull RS6 plus which can do the quartermile in 12.7 sec and is GOVERNED at 175mph, you obviously haven't done your research good enough.

Heck, the 1980 Audi Quattro wich was there long before the Toyota Supra did 150mph with a measly 200hp. GASP

Yeah both the S2000 and RS4 do 155mph. BUt where the S2000 will struggle to go any faster, do the querter mile in the low 14 seconds and a lap on the nurburgring in 8:39. THe RS4 does 186mph unlimited, will do the 1/4 mile in 12.8 seconds and a lap around the nurburgring in 8:09.

A year after the NSX was released, Porsche allready offered the 993 CArrera with 276hp, 0-60 in 5.2 and a top of 174mph for allot less money then the NSX.

The RS6 may be faster than the R8, actually. Wait for official figures, please. 0-100km/h in 4.6 sec is not one of them (that's 0-60 in about 4.2, which is awesome for the Avant).

5.2 is really conservative for the 993 C2. The 964 C2 was getting 4.9 in mag tests.

See, this is why I like Lexus: If good is not the best, it's perfected.