Winding Road reviews the 2008 Lexus IS-F

I'm sick of you. Can't you just realize that every one of the cars in this class is an amazing performer, and look beyond your irritating Lexus bias? There is no break-out star. It is not the IS-F. It is not the RS4. It is not the M3. It is not the C63 AMG. It's whatever the BUYER chooses!!! And right now, the buyer is me, and I don't know which one I want.

S4's right. I think I would be torn between the IS-F and the M3. I love the M3's look and the fact that it's a BMW. But I have a tendency to lean towards Lexus.

There's magic feel and aesthetics... The IS-F is so ugly and the M3 looks so good.

You are such an idiot! Read any one of my comments in these IS-F threads! Just ONE! I pointed out FIVE TIMES that I am going to drive the car! That I will consider it just as much as I've considered the RS4, C63 and M3! So shut your face!

Okay, I was wrong. Is that what you wanted?

Well with Inside Lines 4.8 0-60 and 13.2@109 performance #'s....we can expect it to match at least one of the M series cars....just not the current versions. An E39 M5 or maybe an old gen CTS-V yes...but C63...or new M3. Don't hold your breath.

I must side with Xero here. Edmunds quotes astonishingly inconsistent acceleration times. They couldn't get the S550 under six seconds, they got the RS4 in 4.8 (slower than normal), they got the 335i to go almost TOO fast (4.8), etc...

Car and Driver Magazine had the Lexus IS-F goes from 0-60 in only 4.2s. I seriously Doubted if the new M3 or C63 will beat that number.

This is Lexus first true attempt in making a sportcar, give credit where it is due. The result is mind blowing...

they might not beat it, but they've already tied it. The M3, for example, has been clocked 0-60 in 4.1 seconds and .94g on the skidpad. I've seen the RS4 clocked at 4.2 seconds. Straight line acceleration was supposedly going to be the ace in the hole for the IS-F, but it's no quicker than the M3, RS4, or C63. Without that it needs to beat those cars in other areas to come out on top, and those are unfortunately the areas that those other cars excel in. I think Toyota had made a very solid entry into this market, just surprised they didn't lay the hammer down speed-wise, because it'll be a tall order to outhandle the Audi and BMW (and supposedly the C63 has made great strides in that area as well).

the C63 outpowers everything in the class.

according to the latest article on car & driver's site, the C63 hit 60 in 3.9 seconds vs. the M3 at 4.3. of course, the still chose the M3 for it's weight distribution, superior handling and involving driving experience.

"Car and Driver Magazine had the Lexus IS-F goes from 0-60 in only 4.2s. I seriously Doubted if the new M3 or C63 will beat that number."

ALL reviews have had differing time. Average driver will get about 4.8.

I agree, the current M3 would kill the original M3 around a track, yet the original M3 is still considered the pick of the bunch. There's so much more to a car than stats on a piece of paper, if that's all that matters to someone then they're not really a car enthusiast.

all i can say iss "w00t" lol

at this point, its were just dividing strands from the string. no point in arguing who will beat who because clearly nobody is willing to budge on the war front.

instead, we should all at least admit that lexus has done a good job with the is-f. without talking about luxry, design, etc, can we just focus that lexus CAN make a performance car?

Well, the thing is, they're all too good. A few years ago, the M3 was the clear-cut winner in all comparison tests. The S4 and C32/C55 were fast, but they didn't handle well enough and didn't have the same connection to the road. THIS time, all four of the new entrants have seemed to combine speed, style, comfort, handling and feel to create perfect sports sedans. It's good to be in the market for a hot rod right now.

yeh thats what i meant. we're all "splitting hairs"...cause they are all so close already.

but the point of the IS-F was not to steal the attention from the M3 (well maybe a little, lol) but it was to prove lexus can do something in the performance category

LOL ^^

Don't worry dugit,
I had one of these incidents last week. It looked like I was having an argument with myself. It was not a good sight.

Back to the subject, the IS-F looks to be a VERY solid entry. I have a feeling that the "established" car mags will have a hard time dealing with the irony of a Lexus having a 'harsh' ride. If it were too soft, they would find a way, for sure, to jump on the "Lexus makes plushy old fogie pushers" line again.

All these cares are awesome, competition is good you see, we all win no matter what you pick up!

All the cars are awesome. I will let you know when I get my M3 what I think. I have driven the RS4 and it is still not has solid as my 335i sedan, although the V8 is always nice to have. My friend has a C63 depo out as well. I will wait for a real review. Do you honestly think a magazine is going to bash some one who pays them a lot of money for advertising? I dont think so. Top Gear will give us an unbiased review.
I personally dont like the look of the toyota IS-F, but thats just me.

If you're looking for an un-biased view I don't think Top Gear will give it, not if Clarkson's reviewing it anyway.

The RS4 is NOT boring... with the Titanium Package it's quite easily the hottest-looking A4 ever, and perhaps the hottest in this class. The C63 AMG is also very aggressive. None of these cars are "understated" in the least.

The RS4 has just the right blend, it's showy enough for enthusiasts to know what it is but not too attention grabbing. It also manages to look mean, stylish and classy all the same time, a great feat.

who the hell is "winding road"?

Well Lexus has entered the Sports sedan market and did not skimp. If Toyota were to come out with a car that did not compete with the M3, RS4, AMG it would have doomed the F series.

With a serious entry the German's will open their eyes a little more. Until now the German's had little competition, just Caddy V which is not a major threat, perhaps one day.

Now people have another car to look at in the segment and will boil down to the buyers taste and drive appeal.

"Until now the German's had little competition, just Caddy V which is not a major threat, perhaps one day."

Not a major threat? The scant few comparo's with this car have it literally equal to the Germans. The CTS-V never did get a whole lot of exposure.

The German's have had plenty of competition amongst themselves, that's why they continue to push out great cars, the rivalry between German brands. They've had no competition from other countries, but I don't think the IS-F will change they're stretegies all that much, the German's are still gunning for each other.

Well two things..#1 the CTS-V is one of the few cars to ever beat the M3 in a comparo and its as fast as the E39 M5...with amazing handling. Only its interior and shifter let it down. The next gen promises to be world class don't worry. #2 show me 4.2 0-60...because I don't know about you guys but the C63's chassis is getting rave reviews and it has a not inconsiderable 70 lb ft advantage with similar weight.

Then where does that leave the STS-V, which is still less than the M5?

A positive standalone review of the car, so we know it's good on its own merits. Now we sit holding our breath for a comparison between all the cars in this segment, although I personally couldn't care less about one of those. It looks as if Lexus has gotten their very-first performance vehicle horribly RIGHT.

*Big smile*

The ISF rocks. Although on looks, the M3 sedan looks a bit better, but i am going for the underdog against the trio of giant performers from germany.

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/reviews/lexus/7231138/0710_10_z+2008_lexus_is-f+data_chart.jpg

Thanks, Porschinator!

I can't wait until we can add the column for the 2010 Panamera.


In the big argument about what country makes the better midsize sports sedan, there are some things that everyone seems to be forgetting:

1) The M3 sedan hasn't been released yet. It seems most of the M3 numbers being bandied about here are for the coupé.
2) Every single one of these cars has an electronic speed limiter, so the bigger engine isn't buying you a faster ticket across Montana.
3) Only one of these cars is practical for winter driving. The others i guarantee are hell to drive in the rain, let alone on ice and slush (unless of course you're the reincarnation of Senna).
4) In this category, numbers don't make the difference. The only people who obsess over numbers are racers and engineers. The fat cats who buy these cars care primarily about status symbol, which means that the best car might not sell as well as the mode-du-jour.
5) These cars don't really compete with each other on the sales floor! Audi is already working on their next RennSport, the M3 sedan has yet to be unveiled.
6) You may not be able to compare these cars directly anyway. Even if you had the money, the waiting list on any of these cars is long. Some buyers (the smart ones, anyway) will select their purchase based on other things than besides single-dimensional performance measures. Among the first things to check -- will your dealer actually work with you to get a vehicle in a reasonable timeframe and without the usual "exclusivity markup".

First off the ISF is NOT going to have faster acceleration than the C63, less hp, much less tq. only a few lbs lighter(c63 approx 3800lbs, isf 3780lbs).

Secondly have you seen the exhaust on the ISF? http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/roadtest/08.lexus.is.f/08.lexus.is.f.det.7.160.jpg It's a fraud!!! This should be on a riced up honda civic not a 60k sports car...

you have got to be kidding. the "F" story is marketing rubbish, and anyone who buys a 416 horsepower sedan doesn't give a care about fuel economy.

back to your studies, junior.

If you had even bothered to read the first page of the magazine article you wouldn't have made that statement ,"moto." The "F" designation has its origins all the way back at the very beginning of the entire brand. And no, typical buyers do not care about fuel economy, but among people who own these types of cars, IS-F owners will be able to tout that their car is an ULEV.

No, Will, I really think the "F story" is just marketing BS. I would be surprised if the original LS400 even came into their heads when developing this car. They're inherently different; so different in fact that I would call one the antithesis of the other.

They just picked the letter because nobody else was using it, and they've been using it on concept cars for a couple years. (LF-C, LF-A, LF-S, etc...)

Well then, we should all really pay more attention to the comments made by S4 and moto, since they work internally for Lexus apparently.

Lexus said that the very first project they worked on, the fundamental reason the brand exists, was code-named about thirty different times with the letter "F." The IS-F is an entirely-new venture for the brand, in the same spirit the first LS was. It's not that complicated, but not that trivial either, and goes back to huu76's initial comment about the decision to use the letter "F" being a little more involved than just randomly choosing a letter.

I think you just disagree with me for the sake of disagreement. You don't see the logic in my comment. I am not bashing Lexus, I am just stating what is probably true. Had a Lexus fan posted it, you would be singing a different tune.

RS is there because it stands for something, but it's not like they chose RennSport for any particular reason. M stands for Motorsport, but again, no significant connotation. AMG is the only one that has a real history--I forgot which letter stands for what, but they include the hometown of the original founder and the last names of both him and the other founder. F, on the other hand, was probably picked because it sounds cool, like RS or M. Or V. Or Type-R. Or Spec_B. Or EVO...

To add: the letter "F" may have some sort of past with the Lexus brand, but it has nothing to do with any performance divisions or racing series.

^^^That's sort of a given, considering this is their first performance brand, isn't it? And once again to go back to the original point, you infer that Lexus just chose "F" out of nowhere. Clearly they didn't, and you did just acknowledge that it does have a history with the brand, right? Case closed. You just had to butt in with your authoritative responses because you know more than everyone, right? Why can't it be that they chose the letter "F" because of it's history with the brand, and it just happens to sound "cool?"

"I am just stating what is probably true."

It's comments like these that have irked me about you for a long time. You think your words hold more water because your not a Lexus fan, right? Just as you believe what you believe to be true, so do I. The difference? I have Lexus and Winding Road saying the exact same thing.

Thanks for your vote of confidence, Will. But no, I'm not employed by Lexus.

My point is that letter designations ARE marketing, no matter what company adds them to the fender. "IS-500" would be just as impressive as "IS-F", but apparently Lexus wants to play the badge game with BMW's M-cars and Mercedes' AMG vehicles. Personally, i think all of the badge games are rubbish. Dub a car "Reventon", "Vanquish", "Corvette", or "Silver Spur", and you have a classy name to which purists like myself can relate. Throw a jumble of alphanumeric codes at everyone, and suddenly it's a gunfight to see who can stick on the biggest number (i think it's Saab when they took 9 to the 5th power). Jaguar and Mercedes model lines are amongst the most confusing, but Lexus and Acura are joining the fray. Ask a person on the street if they'd rather have an IS, CLK, IS-F, LS, TL, RL, TSX, a GL, CLS, MDX, or SLR, and you will get more confused looks than decisive answers. Ask the same person if he wants a Mustang or a Corvette, and you'll have an instant response.

As for the history of "Circle F", this was the benchmarking exercise that Toyota undertook to create the Lexus brand. After getting board approval in late 1983, a team started marketing research and competitive evaluation of the world's best luxury cars in 1985. Chief project engineer Ichiro Suzuki set design goals to eclipse the best luxury cars of the day:

- 155mph top speed
- .28 aerodynamic drag coefficient
- 56 dB interior noise sound pressure level @ 60 mi/hr
- 22.5 mi/gal fuel economy

Great efforts were also taken to study vehicle driving dynamics, which was new to the Japanese auto makers in the early 1980's (by their own admission). Luxury cars in Japan were driven by chauffeurs, so they never put effort into improvement of handling and maneuvreability.

When it came time to launch their new luxury car, Toyota decided to creat a new division, Lexus, around the Circle-F team. The LS400 was introduced in 1989 in Köln, directly challenging the Germans on their own turf, and they're still at it.

So now we have a Circle-F IS-F. :-)

my names evan im 21 and i have 3 cars in mind of wanting to get in the next couple weeks...but wanna here suggestions between the 3 ...i cant really decide
1. 2008 Lexus is 350
2. 2008 BMW 330 ci
3. 2008 Audi S4

Is there still a 2008 330? I know in the states they don't have it anymore, where are you from?
There also isn't a 2008 S4, I believe.

Personally I wouldn't have either, I'd buy a used SL500...which is the budget choice believe it or not, as you won't lose all that money in depreciation.

If you want to save money, look at used M-B SL500/550, BMW 6 series...with your budget you have plenty of choice. Although insurance might be a bit much...

Out of the cars you've listed, as you're 21, go for the 3 series. Try the new 335i, 300 hp yet really good gas mileage...

I highly doubt a used SL500 would be a smart choice...

new and with warranty...coupe 335i, sedan is350. my opinion of course

i have the is350 and i love it. the interior is beautiful. i also like the twin turbo 335i, especially since it can be boosted but i dont like the interior. i suggest you drive them all before you decide. check out the 2008 bmw 135i..its smaller than the 335i but uses the same engine.

You can get aftermarket warranty...and it's an expensive Merc that wasn't so plagued with reliability problems.
Just think, buy a 335i and you'll lose what 40% of its value in 3 years? Buy a 3 year old SL and you'll lose way less. A 3 year old one will have had all the work it needs doing.
I don't understand why people buy new cars. The money you lose is just ridiculous...like 100 dollars a week or way more just going on depreciation! Not losing that money covers any additional expense you might incur from the car being older, and it's not like after 3 years the cars just fall apart.
A 2004 Sl500 has 4.5 stars for overall quality, the same as a 2008 IS350. I wouldn't worry about it.

Would you really?
Buy a 335i (I'm going to use UK prices because I know them) - 35000 pounds with a few options.
3 years later - 20000 pounds a loss of 15000 quid in 3 years.
Used Sl500 about 35000 pounds.
3 years time 25000 pounds, loss of 10000 pounds.
5 grand saved over 3 years is more than enough to cover maintenance, plus you get more toys, more luxury, a cool roof and a V8!

But the SL guzzles gas and isn't as quick (or as fun to drive) as the 335i. Go with the BMW.

Im i the only one still thinking this is a SEDAN??? Get similar cars then compare it, dont compare copes with sedans please, just no the same category