Sorry IS-F but your top 0-60 time was short lived.

I want all three...

Wny should anyone be sorry? I never bragged about the IS-F's 0-60 times. You seem to be the only one who cares so much, so I'm happy for you. The C63's torque and horsepower SHOULD give it the lead over all these cars. Who expected otherwise?

This is very dubious test. A 54/46 weight distribution 2 wheel drive can get to 60 in 3.9? You got to be kidding me. Did they put Pilot Sport Cup tires specifically for MB or what?

If Car and driver can get 3.9 out of C63, I bet they will get 3.1 for GT-R while MFR "humbly" claims 3.5. I don't trust the test number other than Motor Trend's.

Maybe F1 should send all drivers to C&D to learn how to launch a car. :)

"...the IS-F can do 186 mph."

And where can one use this speed? On a local freeway? On the track (not even, at least not for sustained periods)?

Audi, MB and BMW have a top-speed gentleman's agreement in which they limit their cars electronically to 155 mph. Pay extra and they'll remove the limited and your RS, AMG or M can go over 155 mph easily.

I think you just learned something new today!

No, Mr. Nicad, you're the idiot here. Need I explain why?

i agree i want all 3, i think the M3 would be the car for me out of the 3 though. with the rs being second. but wow 3.9 sec 0-30 is crazy thats faster than everything else from amg except the slr, thats amazing. i wonder customers of those 6 figures amg cars will think of this..lol

i'm with you!

all amazing cars...it just comes down to individual preference as each stands out in slightly different ways.

"You have to pay extra to raise the top speed on the C63. MB is ripping you off."


It's amazing how the Lexus fanboys come up with the dumbest comments. By your lowlife logic, I guess Audi or BMW must be ripping off their customers too.

Did you even read what I wrote? There's an agreement between these three companies to limit their cars to 250 km/h. Lexus is NOT PART of this agreement.

Idiot.

Hey 001- just a question. You once banned me for calling Bill an idiot (which is why I seldom post here anymore) and I notice that you allow insultd from he and others to fly rampantly. Just curious what your logic may be in this?

Mitch

Insults

so do I.

3.9 sec and a very good handling WOW!!

"Did I hit a sour note? LMAO!!! Too bad the C63 is limited to 155 versus 172 for the IS-F. Past 155 mph all you'll be seeing will be the quad exhaust pipes from the IS-F pulling away from your C63."


Really? Because in a straight-line acceleration race the C63 AMG will leave the IS-F behind. By the time you reach about 65 mph, doing these kinds of acceleration races in the city are dangerous. And a racetrack isn't a straight-line either. And too bad for the IS-F, the C63 AMG is not only wickedly fast but it also handles. So the bottom line is that even on the track the IS-F will have a hard time catching up to the C63 AMG, which will undoubtedly have the better midrange performance thanks to the extra torque.

Use some common sense, fool.

technically you'd just see the fake quad exhaust tips that are nothing but window dressing since they're not even connected to the mufflers.

"RS4: 0-60 in 4.8
M3: 0-60 in 4.8
IS-F: 0-60 in 4.6
C63: 0-60 in 4.5

those are the official numbers. IS-F has nothing to be sorry about."

The official numbers mean NOTHING. Nice try, but BMW and Audi ALWAYS underestimate their times, and both the M3 and RS4 have achieved 4.2 sec 0-60 times. The IS-F doesn't pull away from anything in this class, is what you guys don't understand. There is no car that just blows away the others!

lexus:

a limiter really is a deal killer because we're able to regularly drive at 175mph on the way to work right?

nicad:

car & driver 0- 60test results:

C63 3.9
ISF 4.2
M3 4.3

the C63 is the CLEAR winner. no contest. and the ISF edges out the M3 by only a 0.1 second. that 0.1 second doesn't really give any bragging rights as the numbers are so close. only the class leader gets bragging rights when it's this tight.

oh by the way lexus-admirer the skidpad tests for the three germans were based off of the 150-ft skidpad..the lexus was 300ft skidpad...two completely different handling test....therefore your knowledge is completely bullsh*t.

Because Edmunds can't test cars for performance! They just have opinions! Care to explain why they got 4.8 sec for the IS-F and 4.3 sec for the RS4??? They're inconsistent! Incompetent! Whatever!

Unbelievably childish, these arguments. Stop blindly defending the badge and turn on your brains, people!!! You're comparing lateral accelerations of cars on two different sets of tires. That's a big difference. Also, what tire pressure was used? Was it the same driver? What was the track and tire temperature when each car was run? 0.93 skidpad is terrific for any sedan, but to be honest, I'm more impressed with the AWD Audi achieving 0.89g on ContiSports. Edmunds seems to like the RS4 better, despite its lesser ultimate lateral grip on stock tires, it clearly handles better overall with a quicker slalom time:


"The Lexus generates an impressive 0.93g of grip on the skid pad with its Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires, significantly more than the Audi's 0.89g on its Continental ContiSport Contact3 rubber. Despite this, the RS4 barrels through the slalom fractionally faster at 70.5 mph to the IS-F's 70.2 mph. Give some credit here to the Audi's super-quick steering ratio and some blame to the IS-F's tail, which according to one understated tester, 'gets pretty lively.'"

i just told you that the germans were tested under the 150 ft skidpad not the 300 like the is-f.

Holy shit, this cant be too good for my cars ego...

i think you mean "your" ego.

I think I mean a little bit of both... but I can always get a faster car (think Nissan GT-R), meanwhile my car will never get faster. =/

Brilliant test! 3.9 seconds to 60 is amazing.

I want the M3 and C63.

C63 AMG:

"the world’s best automatic"

Enough said. Back in '03 the 7G-tronic was way ahead of its time and it still is the best automatic out there. Nobody needs a silly 8-speed "direct shift" automatic. It doesn't even has full lock-up torque converter on all gears like the 7G has!

The IS-F's 8-speed automatic is faster than the Ferrari F430's, and just as fast as the 599.

"The IS-F's 8-speed automatic is faster than the Ferrari F430's, and just as fast as the 599"

eurhm.. so?

Back in '03 the 7G could do shifts in under 200ms, now this AMG speedshift version can do it in under 100ms. There is nothing special about that.

Shift speed don't make an automatic better, it's the overall performance that counts, how the transmission matches the engine.

congrats to merc. it is a beautiful looking car and has much more to offer. but how much will it cost? at least 10K more than the lexus...

also someone noted that the 7G has the lockup in all gears while the 8 speed doesnt have lockup in the first gear. doesnt that mean that both have a lockup for 7 gears? so its pretty much even....

And it DOESN'T MATTER what the differences between these cars are. If you're financing, they're inconsequential; $150 more/month at the most.

and all of this pricing nit picking matters because....??

i ordered the isf a couple weeks ago and i was told that they only come fully loaded. he said it would be around 60,000, so 63 sounds about right.

The C63 is more expensive because it is a better car than the IS-F. Lexus could never charge AMG like prices because no one would pay AMG dollars for a Toyota.

lexus:

what does weight have to do with lexus needing 5.0 liters rather than 4.0 to achieve the same hp rating?

lexus:

still didn't answer my question...

what does weight have to do with lexus needing 5.0 liters rather than 4.0 to achieve the same hp rating?

I'll answer it! Because Lexus has a harder time squeezing horsepower out of an engine than the masterminds in Munich.

LOL. ilikeautos, you need to go easy on the Redbull. So many darn posts. LOL

Anyways, it was a little disappointing that C&D didn't include the IS-F in this comparo, especially since they have just recently reviewed it in a different article.

Yes, nicad, and we all know that. But what gets us angry is when you proclaim how much better the IS-F is than the rest. It isn't. They're all just about equal, but the fact that they didn't include the IS-F in this test speaks volumes.

leelemon:

it is funny that the ISF wasn't here. but it is generally up to the manufacturer to provide cars for review. maybe lexus didn't have an ISF available in germany? or maybe they they chose not to be included?

xero:

correction. none of these cars is presently available in the US. all will be available at the same time in the spring of 2008. the C63 and M3 as 08 models...and the lexus as an 09.

And by then, the RS4 will be discontinued. )-:

3.9 is incredible! I expected 4.1 at best, that's faster than any BMW or Audi, Gallardo Spyder, F430 Spyder, every other Benz with exception of the SLR & Clk black series.

BTW I think this comparison test makes it perfectly clear that the M3 has indeed taken back it’s crown & is once again the king of the segment.

Yes, the c63's 0-60 is nothing short of amazing and yes the M3 did win this comparison.

However, if you read the article, there was an overwhelming amount of positive things said about both the Audi and MB. I won't be too surprise if the M3 doesn't come in first in another magazine's comparison. Each of the three here have something different to offer and I can't decide which one I want to buy.

The M3 is the "best balanced", hence the win.

The M3 is the best balanced in handling, performance, comfort, sport and the addition of the manual transmission probably also helped it seal the victory. I wonder how the C63 AMG would have placed if it had a manual transmission...

Well, actually, MunichRob (I just had to say this), the R8's fastest time is also 3.9... so it's as quick as Audi's fastest car. It's also Mercedes's quickest car under $400K (lol).

I don't care if the R8 is "only" as quick as a C63 AMG; it has 2.0L less V8. I still want one. Actually, I want both. That would be perfect!

i only hope its not faster than 4.1 lol...

nicad:

are you really that single minded?

fastest does not equal best performance car. and cars do vary wildly in their ability to provide an involving driving experience. this is simply where the M3 stands out...the connection between car and driver.

Actually, many people have been saying that the C63 has the handling and feel closer to the old m3, while the new m3 has handling closer to the old C55. The C63 is supposed to HANDLE and without compromise. The ride is even harsh according to 5th or top gear. I cant remember which one...

CLK63BlackSeries:

"After 700 miles behind the wheel of this M3, we feel confident that much of the simple, honest goodness that made the M3 the envy of the automotive world is present in the new car. It’s no longer a homologation special, but next to the C63 and RS 4, this latest M3 offers the purest, least diluted, most involving, and best-in-class driver-and-machine relationship. Those characteristics are what made the M3 great, and they’re still evident in a faster and more refined package."

...You stand corrected.

By one source/magazine/reviewer. I said in my post that it was top gear or fifth gear that made those comments. I was over here correcting someone that posted below me and now im getting corrected. Maybe we should just wait till the goddamn cars get here before we make any judgements. All I was really trying to say was that the C63 is a better handling car than any C class has ever been.

By one source/magazine/reviewer. I said in my post that it was top gear or fifth gear that made those comments. I was over here correcting someone that posted above me and now im getting corrected. Maybe we should just wait till the goddamn cars get here before we make any judgements. All I was really trying to say was that the C63 is a better handling car than any C class has ever been.

...and I said many people have been saying that, not everyone.

"All I was really trying to say was that the C63 is a better handling car than any C class has ever been."

Yes, of course, and I know that. It's like the RS4--both are massive improvements over previous AMG/RS models... but they still can "only" catch the M3. Neither really crushes it.

One other thing to all the guys boasting about the amount of G's the IS-F generated in a test...I got news for you, that doesn't mean it's the more capable vehicle by a long-shot.

Good example would be R&T magazine shows an M Coupe generating .88 g's on the skidpad, & in a separate test a 750i doing .90 g's.

It then goes on to show the slalom numbers for each in which the M-coupe of course is doing Porsche like numbers of 70.5mph through the slalom, & the 750’s doing Lexus IS350 like numbers (Yes you read right) of 67.0 mph through the slalom.

XeroK00L, I thought we agreed not to trust Edmunds? You're making an exception, eh? LOL.

It's AS quick as the M3 and RS4, not any quicker. Get that through your thick skull! They have ALL achieved 4.2 sec 0-60 times.

Man you're such an idiot...

you are dense beyond belief.

"XeroK00L" Edmunds is so unreliable with their test numbers, they use drivers of various skill levels for different tests, & not to mention they don't always test in the ideal conditions. Seriously though, you think an IS250 is more capable than a CLK Black series? Hell Edmunds tested an LS cornering better than a 7-series…Please!

Example being Edmunds tested a 650i doing 5.6sec to 60mph, R&T tested a heavier 550i doing 5.0sec to 60mph, what does that tell you? I'd personally take R&T's word over Edmunds anyday, in fact I don't even take any of Edmunds test numbers seriously because they're usually way off the average test results conducted by everyone else.

None of these cars are good looking, they could be ordinary diesel models...

Where does that leave the Jaguar S-Type R?

C63 AMG is the new king for now! There would be nothing wrong if fanboys would admit it! I am an Audi guy and I say C63 AMG is the best right now! I like all good cars!

I agree, I want it.

Waiting for the RS5 to show the M3 who's boss, though... (-:

Espeically with the price competition. Normally, AMG would cost alot more but this time it will be similar in the US market. At least that's what I heard..

I BMW M3.
wonder where GermanNut is hiding?!

Here comes the king, once again. Im totally in love with the new
All three are amazing cars, I wouldnt mind any of them, but my heart just goes to the M3...

wow computer messed up badly on this one...

*I wonder where GermanNut is hiding?!

Here comes the king, once again. Im totally in love with the new BMW M3.

All three are amazing cars, I wouldnt mind any of them, but my heart just goes with the M3...*

Yeah, that sucker does that with a truck engine and impressive 10mpg as return.

The problem for you is that IS-F is still on the top of the winner, M3. ^0^

SHUT UP already!!! Stop polluting this thread!!! The IS-F wasn't included in this test!!!

How is the IS-F on top of the winner?! Thats simply a moronic statement if you cant give me any evidence.

go away.

Because I never read his posts anyway.

Well, maybe sometimes... but only to make me laugh. Like when he said the Acura RDX looked like an all-in-one printer. That was a bit funny.

I wsill be buying the Mercedes-Benz C63.

It's fast, has the best interior and the doors can handle a 200 pound man sitting on each.

MB #1 :)

"It's fast."

Yes it is. Extremely.

"It has the best interior."

I've been in the new C-class. It has the worst interior in the class. And it's not even close.

The reason you don't like the interior in the C-Class is because it doesn't have that Panasonic all-in-one home theater look.

I like the no nonsense quality German approach of designing interiors.

C-Class is #1 for interiors in this segment!

The C-Class interior strikes me as solid and well built, definitely not cheap. A big improvement over the last generation. I don't know what all the fuzz is about. People see it in the pictures and claim it's "cheap" without ever giving it a second glance or chance. A bit unfair, ain't we?

In fact I'd rank the C-Class interior right up there with Audi and Lexus in terms of perceived build quality and above the BMW 3er. Having checked out all these cars, I wasn't very impressed with the flimsy plastics in the BMW 3-Series cockpit. It felt breakable. The C-Class plastics felt solid and tough. There are also certain aspects of the Lexus IS interior I find horribly overrated in terms of quality.

The C-Class interior strikes me as solid and well built, definitely not cheap. A big improvement over the last generation. I don't know what all the fuzz is about. People see it in the pictures and claim it's "cheap" without ever giving it a second glance or chance. A bit unfair, ain't we?

In fact I'd rank the C-Class interior right up there with Audi and Lexus in terms of perceived build quality and above the BMW 3er. Having checked out all these cars, I wasn't very impressed with the flimsy plastics in the BMW 3-Series cockpit. It felt breakable. The C-Class plastics felt solid and tough. There are also certain aspects of the Lexus IS interior I find horribly overrated in terms of quality.

Let's face it, the styling of the Lexus IS-F still makes it look like a whelp :(

Ordered my M3 sedan-- yes the order guides are official, too bad pricing isnt.

incidentally, I'm positive that those little insignificant things like cost of ownership (you know, maintenance, resale, insurance, etc.) have nothing to do with the fact that M3's perennially outsell all the other guys in the class (pretty sure that it's even more than the others combined as of last year's production on the 06's-- BMW is projecting the gap to widen with the addition of the sedan again & continue the dominance through the H/T convertible in the early summer/late spring, although I'm sure some buyers will opt for a 135 cp or conv and put the other 25G's in their kids college fund!)


ORDERED:
08 M3 sedan
Jerez Black Metallic
Fox Red Extended Novillo Leather
ZCW
ZPP
ZTP
EDC
19"s
Moonroof
Sycamore Anthracite Wood Trim
SIRIUS
iPod/USB
Enhanced Premium Sound

Est. Production Week 01-08

NICE! That will be sweet. Post an article when it comes!

The IS-F looks like a tin can next to the Ferrari F430.

The Lexus is a whelp car and if you want to be called whelp then buy the Lexuz.

Most cars look feeble and cheap next to an F430. But yeah, the is-f even more so

what do you guys think about the looks of each car?

as much as the C63 is ridiculously fast, it seems slightly overdone compared to the other two. mercedes went further than usual with this car and i think it would look better scaled back slightly.

the RS4 and M3 in comparison seem understated. they don't seem to scream "look at me" quite as much. a look i find more appealing.

thoughts?

I prefer the M3's looks over both, because it doesnt scream "look at me" as high as the C63, and is less understated than the RS4. Its somewhere in the middle.

I like the appearance of the C63 AMG. It took awhile to get used to it but I was getting bored of the "predictable" AMG-look. I'm glad they took the AMG body kit from the ML63 AMG and molded it to suit the C-Class. To me, this car looks mean and aggressive and unlike previous AMGs has lost a bit of that "luxury car" look and taken on something more sporty and sinister. So basically, I feel that this new AMG body kit styling gave the C63 AMG (and possibly upcoming AMGs) a new type of character.

"SHUT UP already!!! Stop polluting this thread!!! The IS-F wasn't included in this test!!!"

but IS-F is surely there in the headline of this topic.So i think there is a room for IS-F discussion here.

anyway i can see why u r very sad as RS4 (as predicted)is crushed by each in this class...MB,BMW (and Lexus hopefully).

btw s4 u r buying something from this class soon right?I mean this comparo definately made things easier for u to decide.

JUGNU

no there isn't room for ISF discussion here.
and it didn't belong in the headline because it's not mentioned in the article.

Why would I be crushed? I didn't expect the RS4 to win this tests. But it's not like it isn't in the running- it's beaten the new M3 in several other tests.

I am *probably* shopping in this class, though I may want something bigger. We just ordered an X5 and will probably need a sedan to ferry friends around in, as my winter car. For that, I'm now thinking S6, M5, S8.

im beginning to get suspicious about this site. i had submitted this article over 3 days ago along with 2 other articles and none of them have been posted. this is in addition to the obvious and arbitrary removal of postor's opinions and comments which do not coincide with autospies.

yeah... but the comments of houstoncutie and dork989 are permitted and justified by the agents. lol.

I completely agree with you. I submitted an article a month ago that was hot off the presses type news and they replied it was old. I know for a fact that it wasn't. I've searched through this site and have yet to be able to find any information in regards to it.

BMW's victory lap will be short lived because in exactly a year from now Audi will unleash the 450 horsepower twin-turbo V8 RS5 featuring 500 lb/ft of torque and a new B8 RS4 with a twin-turbo V6. The handling will be much improved and the RS4 will easily win again.

That is exactly why we didn't see a new B8 S4 released with the current A4. Remember we did see an S5 when the A5 was released because the S5 is using a V8 and so will the RS5.

Audi will not be using a V8 in the RS4, but rather will move back to the V6 and add two turbos to it.

Then BMW will one-up Audi with their next generation M3...and so the cycle continues.

Where did this come from? The RS4 will still use a V8... and the S4 has been spied, it's coming.

not to mention the autospies watermark on the picture can be read to infer that the article had been submitted previously, autospies obviously had the opportunity to review the article and edit it. lol.

Don't worry minimalist we know Autospies is bias towards BMW. Agent001 gets paid by BMW to post pro-BMW information on his site.

I, just like you, posted this same article more than three days ago. It never got posted.

Furthermore, I posted a different article from Car Today where the Audi RS4 won against the Mercedes C63 AMG and BMW M3. That also never got posted because this site is pro-BMW and likely has a connection to BMW where BMW pays Autospies to post information in favor of the brand.

Also, the watermark means the editors at Autospies edited this article from its original form (likely what you and I submitted).

Lay off the crack, please.

I forgot to add that this site is not BMW-biased. Take your whining somewhere else.

No, S4 Cabriofoxone the next generation Audi RS4 will feature a twin-turbo V6.

The S4 will also feature a V6 except it will not be twin-turboed like the RS4.

And how do you know this? All signs point to another V8. The RS4 started this V8 trend, and it's not leaving.

Unless, of course, they put a de-tuned version of that twin-turbo V6 in their normal sedans, which would be awesome... I hate the 3.2.

I'm pretty sure they're just going to throw in the V-8 from the S5. It wouldn't make much sense even if the V-6 performed as well as a V-8, S4 customers are in store for a V-8, not a turbocharged V-6.

I heard the new B8 S4 will get the TT V6 and RS5 will get the TT V8.. Just a rumors going around on RS6.com.

I would actually prefer that, because like I said, they need a better V6. Twin-turbos would work nicely... I was shocked when they dumped the marvelous 2.7T from my A6.

BUT- I want a V8 in the RS4.

"How so very American. Hitler must be rolling in his grave."

saying incredibly stupid things like this really discredits you. talk about the cars please.

Huu76 is back, with more bullshit.

The C63 AMG doesn't compete with that suped up Mitsubishi. No sane person will compare these two cars. And the Mitsubishi is considerably lighter and possibly releases more emissions since it is "hardcore race tuned", unlike the C63 AMG which still has to come up with some sort of balance to be a practical everyday car.

What's next? You're going to tell us how you bought a $5,000 used Toyota Supra, spent $5,000 in modifications and tuning and now you're regularly beating $400K supercars with your 1,500-horsepower Supra? My what idiots those people are who paid for an Enzo or Veyron...

That's because it had the $7,000 ceramic brakes, which you can't get here...

The title of this post should be renamed: "The Fanboy, the Lush, and the Four-Letter Word"

It's only a car. The reason this thread has become what it is has nothing to do with a car -it has to do with a bunch of emotional uselessness. Whilst this hormone induced childishness does make this site entertaining at times, I would hope that people don't act like this in real life.

You do realize, don't you, that the first person to become emotional in an argument automatically looses?

That particular method of argument is usually the result of someone losing their temper. It seems to be in vogue in politics and is valid perhaps 1% of the time.

The topic of this article almost has a sympathetic tone, because the topic starts with "sorry....". I am sorry to disappoint but me as an ISF fan don't really heed that much into the fact that The C63 AMG is faster than the ISF. Well it was all too expected with about 451 hp and 440lb.ft of torque it was always going to be faster than any of its rivals. It does not matter if the ISF is not as good as an M3 round the track either, because frankly i am a lexus fan and if i had the money i would have bought the ISF regardless. The thing is for this kind of car, the cult followers will stay loyal to their brand identity; mostly; and for others who are just regular consumers, the ISF has done more than enough (in the tests so far, except at edmunds) to be a serious contender. And my kind of reasoning shurely resonates even among BMW and Merc fans.

"BMW" and driver is so biased it's not even funny.
I don't even read them cause they worship BMW and all the test have so many subjective points to them.

IS-F is a really solid contender to these market but wouldn't you guys agree that people will buy Germans over Lexus if they were priced the same? Lexus always undercut the Germans and by that they ahve the advantage because of the bang for the buck that consumers are looking for.

If the price was the same, I wouldn't think it will sell alot more but since it will be cheaper than the germans, it will sell ALOT!

The MB AMG goes from 0-60 in 3.9s, seem a little fishy to me, because that how fast the Gallardo do it.

I have to see more comparison from other mag, because I haven't seen Car and Driver said anything nice to Lexus.

They don't say anything nice to anyone but BMW...

"I have to see more comparison from other mag, because I haven't seen Car and Driver said anything nice to Lexus."


Um, wake up! C&D tested the IS-F a few days ago. And the 0-60 time of the C63 AMG seems PERFECTLY LEGIT to me. Monstrously powerful engine, fine tuned 7-speed automatic and a massive and broad torque band.

Also, when it comes to 0-60 times, I trust only Car and Driver because they always extract the best times for any car.

Bill, I agree with you on the most part but C&D gets the most optimistic 0-60 times out of all the magazines which normal drivers will not acheive at all. So, I wouldn't trust them the MOST.

And it doesn't really matter, you know why? Because the Lexus IS-F is Lexus first true attempt to make real Luxury sportcar.

Yep and I have respect to Lexus.

I just hate all the fanboys crying out that it smoked all the competition.
They are all close and it's up to personal taste.

Hwany, it was really nice to actually see we could agree on something.

Lexus

Haha. Yep. Sometimes I sound like a complete German fanboy but I'm actually not like that.

That's what I heard to. They restricted the exhaust maniford / engine management so with aftermarket exhaust and chip tuning, it will have 5xx hp.

Hold your horses BMW fanatics: The RS4 has defeated the new M3 once again.


Check out this link:

http://www.cartoday.com/content/blog/singlepage.asp?id=130

Audi RS4 defeats the Mercedes C63 AMG and BMW M3.

That is now 5 wins and 1 loss for the Audi RS4 versus the new BMW M3.

So, I guess the RS4 maybe 3rd in Car and Driver's opinion, but it is 1st in CarToday as well as Autoexpress, Autocar and a few other publication's opinions.

Who cares about BMW and Driver...haha.
I love German cars but the way they worship BMW is not even funny.

Also, What's with the weight of RS4? Did they use US version of RS4?

Isn't it also funny that C63AMG has harsher ride than the M3?

It was always the other way around....

What gives with the "glory for his own kind" BS? Do you have to be German to be a German car fan? I'm American of Asian decent and I own both a German car and a few Japanese ones, but can still appreciate cars from other countries as well - including domestics.

Why don't you stick to your own kind and leave the racially charged epithets inside your own mentally challenged mind.

Well, here goes the final nail in my coffin...

HOW MANY OF YOU NUTS ACTUALLY DRIVE ONE OF THESE CARS OR A COMPARABLE ONE!?!?!?!?!

(Because I'm betting only a few-- the other college students and high schoolers are too busy playing video games & dreaming of how to spend lottery winnings. I worked my ass off to get to a point where I could drive anything I wanted & there's a new 650 coupe in my stall of our three-car-garage. So how's THAT for ya!)

and yep, it's mine not a demo or company car or loaner or whatever. and the M3 sedan will replace my 06 330i ZSP 6speed (lease should be up about the same time).

is that 330i zsp 6speed that has to be returned under the lease yours as well?

its also actually called the 330i zhp (performance package)6speed. just thought you might like to know as an "owner." im sure its a spelling error though, amirite?

so actually, u lease (rent)these cars, u dont even own them..and why would u get a 650 coupe when u can get an m6???

minimalist- ZHP was only coupe and conv in 06, and mine is an E90, so oops-- YOUR mistake, it IS a ZSP (sport package) 6spd.

Oh and stash84, I lease because of future resale value protection (and I trade cars too often as it is!)- I could have written the check but thought it foolish when I could have BMW take the risk of future value instead of personally taking it. Also, I like the 650 better than the M6- our roads here suck, and the 650 is enough softer-sprung that it makes driving the car daily a joy as opposed to a backache. The M6 turns too many heads (the 650 turns plenty)- I frankly didn't feel it was worth the extra $25-30k, especially since it would be worth only $5-10k more after a couple of years.

"so car and driver doesn't care that the C63 is faster then the M3, they use "magic feel" to justify the bimmer being better"

That's because IT IS! If it drives better, it drives better! There's no getting around it--"magic feel" is actually a product of the Lexus fanboys, but it's not some abstract concept that has more to do with touching a genie than it has to do with driving. It's called HANDLING. BMW has it, everyone else wants it (and they're getting awfully close).

nicad:

so 0-60 is the definition of a performance car?

not weight distribution, braking, handling, feedback, turn-in, a free revving engine, etc??? these are the reasons the M3 won.

nicad:

have a wonderful day! and get some help. soon.

Here's a laugh. Just saw a Lexus commercial for the "new" GS with the car drifting, doing donuts, etc, and plastered across the bottom of the screen was "Dangerous maneuvers, DO NOT ATTEMPT" !!!

Especially hard to attempt such things in US-spec cars since you cannot defeat the ESP/Stability Program completely.

Reminds me of a comment above that said something about the hinges on the new C-Class Mercedes able to hold a 200-lb person-- funny how the MB ad actually says specifically DO NOT ATTEMPT, for demonstration only-- and then goes on to plaster warnings about not doing other things the commercial is touting as C-class accomplishments.

WHY did this turn into a huge debate? The C63 is the fastest car out of all four of them. There's nothing to argue about here. This shouldn't even have been an article in the first place. "ilikeautos" just felt like being antagonistic, a trait that most European fans share here.

you and nicad are on the same page apparently....

so 0-60 is the definition of a performance car?

not weight distribution, braking, handling, feedback, turn-in, a free revving engine, etc??? these are the reasons the M3 won.

Mr. Nicad, everyone here knows you're full of it too!

i used to come on this site to get info about some of the cars i was curious about. the bmw 335i caught my eye. all i read is criticism and how the c63 is faster than the isf. how the isf got 4.2 and the m3 got 4.3...lol. The benz is the fastest, even with the weight difference. It has a 6.3 vs 5.0. Im probably the least knowledgeable member here, but even i know that. i also know that bmw prob has better handling. i own a is350 and i mostly bought it because it looks like a 30k car and i really like the interior and the exterior look. i dont like to be seen. i would hate to roll up in a benz or a bmw. i think MOST people buy those cars because of the badge they come with and i have never considered buying it for that reason. i also think that most german car fans on this site have legitimate reasons for why they bought their cars. they look at the numbers, options, price, etc. They are great cars. They really do perform great and every year they get better. Lexus is hanging in there though. The isf (which i ordered a couple weeks ago) is a new market for Lexus and they did great for their first shot. it looks like my 350 on steroids. i didnt like the front fenders at first but when i saw it in person, they werent as big as i thought. i dont like the way it looks in blue. i love the new c class benz. i was thinking of getting it for my girlfriend (c63, so i can drive it sometimes too :)i dont know much about the audi but i do like the interior. what im trying to say is that its ridiculous how much arguing goes on here and truly, they are all great cars. each has a variety of things to offer. its really about what you like. i personally like lexus because its not flashy and the interior flows well. the nav is great and as far as price, i definitely think that you get more "bang for you buck" with lexus

the thing about this article is that it doesnt tell the readers anything new. in the us, the c-class amg has always been faster than the m3 in respect to acceleration. the 95-00 c43 (w202) had 300 hp in europe and the us while the us received a detuned m3 (e36) at 230 hp for 95-00. the 01-05 c32 (w203) had 350 hp replaced by the c55 at 362 hp while the m3 (e46) during 01-05 had 333 hp. the c55 was also already running high 12s with the last m3 running mid to low 13s. oddly enough, the one criticism of the c63 by C&D is its harsh ride which was exactly the same only criticism of the last m3 by C&D amongst other publications. yet still, the m3 comes out at top again, at least in the opinion of C&D.

the question among performance purists is the times on the track with these cars? its really the end all of questions. which car is fastest on the track? can the c63 make porsches weep? the previous generations of c amg have been less than noteworthy on the track. m boss, richter, claims the m3 is almost 20 seconds faster than the last m3. the sportauto track time (which is "official" in most folks books) for the e46 m3 was 8:22. there are clk amgs from 2 generations ago that are faster in drag than the last gen m5.

when it comes down to it with the latest iteration of compact sport sedan class, the question really is whether the owner prefers a manual or auto transmission. yet in the end, its seems to still come down to track times, doesnt it? this is to purists of course. people will choose due to other factors like styling, comfort, convenience, reliability amongst others. good luck finding a isf to those that want it.

"in the us, the c-class amg has always been faster than the m3 in respect to acceleration. the 95-00 c43 (w202) had 300 hp in europe and the us while the us received a detuned m3 (e36) at 230 hp for 95-00."

Actually, the 300hp C43 AMG was slower than the 260hp BMW M3 and 250hp Audi S4 at the time.

200th post!!!

201th post!

I owned a MB C 240 and loved it (lowered with H&R) and E46 M3 and I loved it. I drove my friends Audi S4 and loved it. At the end of the day, they are all cool and all fun. I have no idea what to get now. I guess I'll have to test drive all three and see which one talks to me....

Were you counting them? ^^^!

lol jks..

All these cars are great.All with a different driving feel.I said it before its like having a blonde brunette,redhead and a punk rocker.Their all fun it just dependa what mood your in.Performance this close it will come down to the best drivers.

Am I the only one becoming numb to 0-60 test supremacy? In a race, who runs their cars up to speed, drops back to 0 MPH, then sprints back up to speed again? Once you're initially off the line, 0-60 times don't matter anymore. I never thought the Lex would live up to its hype anyway.

It's more of a pissing contest more than anything.

You know every time I read some of comments on the blog sections I just think "For crying out loud!What is wrong with these people?" Do you people have nothing better to do than cuss and act like 3 year olds over what someone says about a car on the internet? If you don't then you seriously need to sort out your head. Who gives a damn what so and so thinks about Lexus or BMW? Opinions are like assholes; everyone has one and they all stink. If you like a car for whatever reason then you're entitled to that but don't start downing someone else's opinion just because you don't happen to agree with it. That just makes you a douche bag. All your doing is wasting your time and energy and doing a good job making fools of yourselves. I've seen more mature discussion out of 10 year olds than half of what I see on these boards. There just aren't sufficient words to express the ignorance displayed repeatedly by some people here.

we have won again... another victory for Benz... & look bm, audi, & lexus all feelin the pain

actually, M3 won.

The only thing you won is the fudge packing contest.

No doubt a great article by Car and Driver...

No doubt a stupid title by the poster. ilikeautos, you are such an idiot. what does a test of 3 German machines have anything to do with an IS-F 0-60 time? You make German Car fans look bad.

Wow!!! All of this rhetoric/fuss about three cars we all have not had the good fortune of driving yet...Even when we get to drive them how many of us are going to line these three cars up and race them to their limits. :-)

haha thats true ilikeautos,

there are so many 335's, A/S4's, IS 350's, and C350's at my old high school in the OC, so im sure itll be easy to find their high performance variants on the road once they hit the streets...and as rare as the rs4 is, ive already seen 4 or 5 around town

Whoa, I think I fell into a high school gym class in a parallel universe! Read your tests and pick what's important to you--for me that's putting the top down to enjoy the drive, and having all-wheel drive to avoid the CHP chains requirement every time I go skiing and there's a dusting of snow. That leaves an RS4 or S4 cabrio...zero to sixty is about number 100 on my list of important qualities.

The S4 Cabriolet is a fine choice...

I wish they made a coupe version of the C63.

yes clk is the coupe based on c-klasse. It competes with m3... oh wait... m3 TRIES to compete with clk63.