First Lexus IS-F Comparison: Does it Stand Up to the Audi RS4?

...so on the first test, they said they couldnt duplicate the 4.8 seconds but somehow they got it this second time? sounds to me like they didnt compare it side to side, but did it by memory...lol

they really hated the IS...not a single good thing was said, except that it brakes better and has a better g-rating.

What do you want them to do? Come up with something they like about Lexus? What's to like about that car? The horrific exterior, the cheap looking interior, the whine of that engine, the fake exhaust, the subpar performance, the lack of prestige? Come on, face it...Lexus means nothing in the car enthusiast world.

nicad:

how is the IS-F faster? please provide the comparison data (same time, place, weather, drivers, altitude).

top speed is governor limited so the numbers you quote are pointless.

and interior, well, that's subjective. audi's is pretty amazing...clean and functional.

Nicad,

Nicest interior? LOL! I dont see any blanked out button panels on the other interiors. And where is the wood or aluminum trim? I'm sorry but the IS-F's interior looks like a Camry interior.

"Not being able to duplicate" an acceleration time means they couldn't get anything FASTER than 4.8.

"Come on, face it...Lexus means nothing in the car enthusiast world."

Ever heard of the Supra TT and it's cult following.
It has the greatest engine ever made. The thing can handle upwards of 700hp

"Can Lexus Take Down the Germans Again?"

no.

Again? When did they ever?

Well there you have it ladies & gents, regardless of test numbers done by this publication or that publication, if they raced the two cars next to each other & the RS4 won, you can't argue with that by saying the IS-F is actually the faster car.

Now out of all fairness to the IS-F I'm not going to take this overall second place finish to seriously, the official verdict still isn't in. This is purely because I ignored the first test edmunds did with the M3, & because I don't take any-test that edmunds does seriously.

So in my eyes the battle isn’t officially won yet by anyone, which is a good thing because this is one of, if not the best showdown between automakers that I’ve personally experienced in my lifetime...Seriously think about it.

i can prob get a 4.8 in my 350. if lexus claims 4.6, how could they (edmunds) get a 4.8??? whos driving this car? usually lexus underrates the numbers (and the other car companies). lexus claims 4.6 and ive seen 4.2, now its 4.8??? lol..i smoke mustang gts and everyone ive ever raced in my 350 (0-60), except a cobra one afternoon..the numbers are so close from 0-60, lets see who pulls away when the cars are already rolling...why doesnt any1 ever argue about that???

"i smoke mustang gts and everyone ive ever raced in my 350 (0-60)"
The mustang gt can do 4.8 so don't tell me your smoking them.

great comment.

Also worth watching this clip of the new M3 giving the Rs4 a toasting !

http://youtube.com/watch?v=axb19DwhqUk&feature=PlayList&p=8931AB9B4EE6FE98&index=3

The fact that you posted these ridiculous claims means you've lost your credibility.

Oh wait, you've lost that from day one that you posted here.

You're claiming that these journalists are pro-German and anti-Japanese? Grow up. They simply liked the Audi RS4 better. Big deal. There will be reviewers who will love the IS-F too. Stop this bullshit please.

"as usual, somehow, when they test a Lexus side by side with a German, it can't even get the oficial factory 0-60 time (which is 4.6 for IS-F)."

Maybe because Lexus is exagerating their numbers!

nicad:
got any data to back up your opinions?

nicad, you are pathetic. I love it how when the IS-F doesn't win, you STILL call the publication biased. THERE IS NOT SOME HUGE CONSPIRACY AGAINST LEXUS. It just so happens that some cars are better than Lexuses! Yes, it's possible!

Nicad, please shut it. Your anti-German bias is getting out of hand. You must be Jewish with all your German hating.

where in the following excerpt did you get "the Lexus isn't German so it lost"? Because what I read was "the Audi is better so it won". Anyone, feel free to chime in.

"The 2009 Lexus IS-F is the kind of car that really benefits from switching off the stability control, as it'll do some really wicked powerslides. And the IS-F handles really nicely and precisely. It's just too much for us, though. Too much to look at, too intricate to fully appreciate and too hard-core for the street.

The all-wheel-drive 2007 Audi RS4 just plain hauls ass. It doesn't rotate around an apex like a rear-driver. It's less the rapier than it is the broadsword. But it's devastatingly effective as a street machine, so it wins."

nicad, you are pathetic. I love it how when the IS-F doesn't win, you STILL call the publication biased. THERE IS NOT SOME HUGE CONSPIRACY AGAINST LEXUS. It just so happens that some cars are better than Lexuses! Yes, it's possible!

nicad:

At this point, it's pretty much anti-nicad bias.

This is just the beginning. Lexus IS-F will finish in the last place in every single comparison against the incredible German trio. Just as predicted, Lexus = LOSER.

That's all you could come up with? Ha, ha, ha...You are doing nothing more than embarrass yourself on this forums just like Lexus does when is bringing their s**ty cars to be compared with the German outstanding automotive engineering. It seems that Lexus engineers are just as delusional as Lexus fans if they thought they could compete with cars like Mercedes, BMW or Audi.

Yawn.....yet another win for the brilliant Audi RS4.

To date the Audi RS4 has officially defeated the new V8 BMW M3, the Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG and the Lexus IS-F.

This car is king of its class for sure.

You seem to be a little confused...I thought is clear that RS4 lost against both M3 and C63. 4RS is superior to the IS-F but let's not go too far in claiming is better than C63 or M3 because is simply NOT.

Just as always the order is:
1) BMW M3
2) Mercedes C63
3) Audi RS4
-
-
57) Lexus IS-F

nicad-

What is lower, the boost on your posts or your IQ?

nicad:

factory times: pretty much useless because they're done at different times, altitudes, weather conditions, etc. no apples to apples. furthermore, bmw and mercedes are VERY conservative.

top speed: pointless as it has nothing to do with the car's capability, just an electronic governor. mercedes engineers have already stated that the C63 is capable of 200mph (not really surprising since it match a gallardo in 0-60).

let us know when you have ANY apples-to-apples data to back up ANY of your ridiculous commentary.

have a great day!

"GermanNut" other that yourself, who are you kidding!

"furthermore, bmw and mercedes are VERY conservative."

enthusiast, I've said this before...

Mercedes is NOT conservative. Their times are usually spot-on. It's BMW and AUDI who are conservative. Feel free to revise your post.

Agree with GermanNut, the RS4 has been the best car in this class for the last couple of years now and even the new M3 could not unseat it. But i really have my doubts on Edmunds' assess of the ISF, because every single publication (offcourse except Edmunds); Motor Trend, Car & Driver, Winding Road, and Car connection so far have lavishly praised the ISF and even autospies claims that The ISF hype is legit and the car is brilliant to drive. The RS4 may be better by a small margin, but i think that Insideline is exaggarating their opinions a bit.

Comments like this won't win you any friends here. All cars in this class are good in their own way. It all depends on buyer preference. For my needs, the RS4 or C63 AMG would do just fine but that's me.

Yes, farabira, all the publications have praised the IS-F, because it's praise-worthy. HOWEVER, this is a COMPARISON TEST. Just because the IS-F is good, doesn't mean it will be better than the rest.

good job audi. especially impressive since the RS4 is already several years old.

in the end, it was faster, handled better, had a better ride and, in my opinion and edmunds--it looks much better.

turns out the world is still in order.

good to finally see a proper comparison too...same time, weather, altitude, drivers, etc.

Haha that NICAD dude is hilarious. You really think the entire Automotive press is some conspiracy against Jap cars ? Lol..

"But no one of sound mind could love the stacked quad exhaust tips. This is at least partly because they are not actually exhaust tips. In fact, they are not connected to the exhaust system in any way."

Wow. I just lost a ton of respect for that car

i can't imagine a more poseur-like detail than FAKE exhausts on performance car. lol.

looks like Lexus dropped another turkey. I hope this is a lesson of don't make outlandish claims before the car is out. this car is a joke!

IS-F Loses its first comparison test against a 4 year old car. Way to go lexus. So much for dominating the class. LOL!!

Hate to say this but; I told you so.

It's difficult to even look at the Lexus stats b/c I can't get over how goofy the car looks - save the BBS wheels. Even if it is to be considered a serious contender it does nothing to look the part. All 3 Germans look both menacing and tasteful - why can't Lexus copy that?

What I want to know is...if Car and Driver can get the IS-F to sixty in 4.2, and Edmunds got 4.8 twice, but 4.3 for the RS4 - does that mean that C&D can get the RS4 to sixty in the high 3 second range? Think about it...

I want to see C&D's comparison test. They always get the best test results. (Notice I dont care who wins...)

Exactly my point.

Let's review:
C&D w/ the IS-F: 4.2 to 60
C&D w/ the RS4: 4.8 to 60

Edmunds w/ the IS-F: 4.8 to 60
Edmunds w/ the RS4: 4.3 to 60

....excuse me, but, WTF?!

No, but R&T got the RS4 from 0-60 in 4.3 sec, it's second-fastest time, so this isn't anything out of the ordinary. The IS-F, on the other hand, should have been quicker.

Actually, XERO, Edmunds also achieved the BMW 335i's fastest time... of 4.8 sec. That is a RWD car, and it had a manual, as opposed to an automatic (manual is harder to launch, duh). So that doesn't hold water.

I know, and that's why I take their times with a grain of salt. ANY performance numbers--slalom, braking, acceleration, etc.

It's their opinions that I sometimes find interesting, though.

As usual Xerokool, you are spot on with your comments. When Edmunds' tests of the M3 were questioned as being less than accurate by most badge whores, I don't remember people claiming that Edmunds tests are correct. Yet when they show questionable results for the Lexus, they must be "better" than what other car mags have achieved with their testing.

Actually, david, I said exactly the opposite.

Edmunds is not a reliable source for numbers and should not be used to quote ANY performance characteristics, Japanese, German or otherwise.

What is this shanidigan rambling, your kidding right, DSG has been proven as a faster shifting mechanism due to pre-recognizing the shift and getting the gears in place faster than your standard hand to stick placement.
the statements to assume that sport mode and manual settings(paddle shift) are going to be faster than Drive stated using lexus auto 8, your joking. Lexus doesn't incorporate Ferrari or E-drive engeneering into the IS-F. they worked at their 8 speed auto for a reason. any true unbiased auto enthusiast would know this, and why.

I love the IS-F and all, but I can't help but think that the 8-Speed transmission was a good idea. In the LS, it's fine because you don't really notice the shifting and the LS wasn't meant to be driven hard. In the IS-F, it just seems to be a bit much. This is just what I've concluded from all the reviews. I'm definitely going to have to try it for myself to be sure.

Sorry, I meant bad idea.

The RS4 has beaten the M3 in three comparison tests.

This IS-F is a credible effort but it is ugly and no manual transmission, at least it is fast.

Wait a minute the stacked exhaust is FAKE! how 1980 corvette.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/comparison/2008/lexus.is.f/08.lexus.is.f.det.7.500.jpg

Car and Driver had the Lexus IS-F goes from 0-60s, and the Audi RS4 at 4.8s.

Who the the Lexus IS-F in the edmund comparison, probably a Lexus hater.

lol. This is incredible.

Car and Driver had the Lexus IS-F goes from 0-60 in 4.2s and the Audi RS4 at 4.8s.

Who the the Lexus IS-F in the edmund comparison, probably a Lexus hater.

correction, the Lexus IS-F goes from 0-60 in 4.2 second and the RS4 and M3 in 4.8s.

C&Ds speed times really throw things off. Of course Lexus fans will use C&Ds times since they are much faster than any other mag...hope the Stig gets a chance at it :) Heard the stack is actually 2 tail pipes coming out of 1 exhaust pipe..like a splitter. Very Common.

Gotta see one up close and see if the interior is better than the pics.

After reading the article I realyl have to see one. Different reports on the stack exhaust, real or not. As well as everything else. Would like to witness this car go 4.2 to 60.

Edmunds has a picture of the fake exhaust on the review its picture 12 of 25.

A lot of these Car and Driver 0-60 times has to do with the launch the car. Its done for fast time and not longevity of the car(transmission) I have read that C&D take the car to redline, and then dump the car in to gear. great for speed not so much for the tranny.

Just noticed it thnx. Seems like they are semi useable. Still dual output from muffler but not directly connected to tips. I guess Lexus was trying to make the tips perfect. Too worried about tips getting off center...lol. Its an idea for sure...hmm?

amazinBimmer, there is no benchmark in this class. How can the BMW M3 be declared the benchmark if the BMW M3 has lost to the RS4 more than the RS4 has lost to it and BMW delayed its launch the day the RS4 came out for no other reason than to make sure it came with a V8 and 420 horsepower.

Gee, I wonder what other car has those figures......


Why on earth could BMW be testing a twin-turbo 580-600 horsepower V10 M5, I wonder what other car company just came out with their own twin-turbo V10 sedan featuring 580 horsepower. The figure is supposedly close to 600 horsepower in reality.

amazinBimmer lives under a rock, wake up and smell the coffee a 7 year old chassis based Audi RS4 can romp the new BMW M3, Lexus IS-F and even the Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG.

Those that claiim the Audi RS4 is not better than the BMW M3....

Take this you BMW fanboys:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71863

http://www.jabbasworld.net/viewtopic.php?p=841419

The RS4 is indeed better than the new V8 BMW M3.

The next generation Audi RS4 will come with a nice 450 horsepower and slam this unworthy competition even further down.

Not according to Car and Driver.

And C/D writers have always been BMW worshippers... why is that surprising? At the most, the 3 Series (and any of its variants) has only lost in one or two of the dozens of comparison tests they've put it in.

These cars are so close it comes down to driving skill and who has the biggest set,because their is traffic around when your driving at these speeds.Its safer on a race track,at least the drivers around are skilled.

Well not according to other comparisons and publications.

Since when was Car and Driver the holy grail of magazines anyway???

It's the best seller of all car magazines. and by the way the two sites you provided(hardly all the press) I can't open one, And Auto express is the other. anymore?

Yes, Car Today. I submitted the article 5 times and it has never been posted.

The Audi RS4 also won that test vs. the BMW M3 and Mercedes C63 AMG.

"Nut" you truly are delusional. If you actually believe the A4's "7 year old chassis based Audi RS4 can romp the new BMW M3" you must be the one living under that rock.

Compared to the two reviews that you so convincingly thought you could shut us down with, Car & Driver is the holy grail.

Yes I'd personally take an RS4 over a C63 but you know what, it didn't even land second place in this review & as I'm sure everyone agrees, this is the one that matters the most. Keep in mind this is the same publication that you so often love to mention positioned the M5 behind the S6, now that it's going against your thoughts I see you don't think to highly of it.

BTW, BMW had planned on putting a V8 in the M3 ever since Audi put one in the S4 it was inevitable then, not upon the release of the RS4. Plus we all knew the M3 was rumored to have 400+ hp up to a year before the RS4’s release.

Anyways you know how you feel about amazingbimmer’s radical BMW fan boy comments, we feel the same way about your radical Audi’s #1 fan comments.

"...it didn't even land second place in this review & as I'm sure everyone agrees, this is the one that matters the most."

How so?

All reviews are given equal weight in my book. C/D is actually perhaps less important because the 3/M3 ALWAYS (or 95% of the time) comes in first in their tests. It's not a surprising outcome.

Listen all these cars are fairly equal in 0-60 times. They can all do mid 4s on average and they can all do low 4s given the right circumstances. A race around the track is what i'm intersted in. Same driver same track 3 laps for each car and compare the times. That is the only way you can compare which car performs better. And after that takes place, it doesnt matter if Lexus finishes first or last noone should ever blurt out the stupid old story about heritage. Because at that price range heritage means nothing. When your talking six digit price tags then you can use heritage as an excuse.

Come on S4 you know very well that we were/are all waiting on the reviews from the three largest & most trusted auto publications on our market, Motor Trend, R&T, & C&D.

I disagree with C/D. Put a British magazine there instead, like CAR, EVO or Top Gear.

Why are you putting me with him?

Furthermore, why am I replying to your simpleton-esque post?

I wasn't the one who posted the article about CARToday... but in case you're wondering, that is a spin-off of CAR Magazine, the best British automotive read available. Of course, you didn't know that because you don't read out of C/D.

Don't blame me amazinBimmer for your BMW M3 getting beat out by an RS4 with a 7 year old chassis. LOL!

A BRAND NEW BMW can't even outright defeat an Audi RS4 with a 7-year old chassis.

Good grief....and the E46 which was even OLDER than the RS4 was smacking the RS4 around.

Way to go M-boys, time for you to get slapped again...courtesy of the RS5 and RS6 this time.

"Good grief....and the E46 which was even OLDER than the RS4 was smacking the RS4 around."

Well, actually, the RS4 has beaten both. But it's time for you to stop ranting. It's like real estate value--if there's one bad house in the neighborhood, all the prices go down. You're the bad house... and the Audi fanboys are the neighborhood. You're bringing my prices down!

I can't wait to see BMW testing a twin-turbo version of the BMW M3 because Audi is going to release a twin-turbo RS5 with 460 horsepowr and 500 lb./ft. of torque.

BMW is already testing a twin-turo 580 horsepower V10 for the M5 to catch the VW with the same statistics.

Remember EVERYBODY chases BMW, the invented the category.

Everybody one ups everybody, its a matter of production dates.

did you know the bentley continental gt exhaust pipes are also "fake"? meaning the tips are not actually connected to the exhuast. not so trivial for a six figure car. but regardless, what i want to know is this:

are the paddle shifters nothing more than a maximum gear selector ala the regular IS cars? or is it a true manumatic where flooring it in a high gear does not cause an automatic downshift?

BIAS.RACISM.

They search for a good part for a German car, and search for a bad part for a Japanese car.

Japanese build the best car in the world.

You are joking, right?

This article is too biased. They searched indefinitely to try and downplay the ISF. I truely believe that a car performs better once you break the 5,000k barrier with the mileage. I felt the same with my 350Z.

No journalist walks into a comparison test "wanting" to "downplay" one of the vehicles involved; they hope to love both of them, making it harder to decide which actually won. In this case, they tried to criticize the RS4, too... but they just couldn't find anything to criticize! :P

And ANY car will perform better at a certain point... not just Japanese, but the RS4 in this test, too.

Whoever de-boosted me needs an attitude adjustment.

First thing I have to say is that I am not biaised at all, any of these 4 cars would put a smile on my face.

I think this war is one of the best I've ever seen in the car world, it's just fun to see 4 cars that are all really good in this category.

Now to all the Lexus haters, stop comparing the car to the three german cars at the same time it's not fair. You are like the mercedes beats it in this aspect, the bmw in this one and the audi in that one so the germanS are better...of course if you take the best of these three german cars, you'll have one VERY GOOD car.

For the Lexus lovers, all I have to say is don't panic if the car isn't perfect for now, it's the first generation and it battles against cars of 3rd or 4th generation.

Don't flame me, I may not be right in some aspects, it's just my opinion!

fake exhaust like the car it self.
fake badge trying to be a euro when its a japanese car.
looks like bmw 335i or s5 would be a great buy. why spend so much on old women's favorite brand?
nicad, you still hiding out in your room?

i dont know if anyone is still reading this thread...
but the final out of 100 points given was this

rs4 wins at 85.7% and the ISF at 84.3%.

thats a tie...even though they had so much to critize on the IS-F, it still came up pretty close

It's not a tie. A win is a win.

Even if the IS-F had a higher percentage, you could bet your bottom dollar that Edmunds still may have crowned the RS4 in the end because it does more than produce numbers.

The IS-F definitely already has an upward-hill battle to vie for praise in any comparison test. It's a brand new entry into a highly-competitive, overly-sensitive segment, and plus it's a Lexus. Prediction: the IS-F will win no comparison test.

But it's still a brilliant car from my perspective. Lots of people still bitching about its looks. You don't seem to understand the concept of dressing for the job you want. The IS-F *looks* more aggressive and sportier than every other car in the segment...for a reason.

There's something called crossing the lane of tasteful aggression and obnoxious aggression, Will. I don't want to hear any more excuses about this car's looks or its performance. If it's just not as good as the German three, that's okay, you can admit it.

At first I was very enthusiastic, but I'm liking this car less and less, while the C63, RS4 and M3 are looking more and more attractive...

Just as I predicted, your true colors start to show.

Nobody cares about your feelings on the IS-F. Stick to having everyone wonder which German car you dream of buying next, please.

"But it's still a brilliant car from my perspective."

Nobody cares about your perspective on the IS-F either. Stick to having everyone wonder which Toyota car you dream of buying next, please.

Thank you.

And Will, please, enlighten me. If it is going to lose in the comparison tests for reasons of my concern (comfort/handling balance), WHY would I want to drive the IS-F over the other three? I still don't care about the badge. But if the Germans are better cars, why wouldn't I get them over the Lexus?

Why do I have to point out that "better car" is not a definitive subject? Why do I have to point out that the "better car" for one is not the "better car" for another? Senseless attacks from you three will not deter me or anyone else from their opinions regarding a car they have an interest in. You think because all the reviewers who test the car will hate it means that everyone else in the world should hate it too? The LS has lost every comparison it's been in, but I need not remind you that thousands of people still opted to park one in their driveway over all the cars that it lost to.

dear godddd nicad you must be f*cking retarded...

i dont understand whyy you keep comparing factory acceleration times seeing that they dont mean sh*t (especially bmw and audi performance times seeing that both are known to be understated and the rs4 as well as the m3 have been quoted at 4.2 from 0-60), and top speed cant be compared unless all cars have their limiters removed. the top speed limit does not dictate the performance of the car

i dare you, first of all, to hit over 155 mph on a public road without A) getting a fat ticket and a license suspension, or B) totalling your car beyond recognition. Secondly, who gives a f*ck about 15 extra mph on the is-f's limiter when alllll the limiters can be taken out anyway!

good god bro, your trying so hard to defend this car and bash the german ones, i swear lexus is paying you or somethin haha

...in all fairness, Lexus did alright for its first attempt at a high performance car...but come on, its all for show, from the rediculous hood bulge to the non-functional stacked pipes (that arent even connected by the way wtf haha), its just more proof that lexus needs to stick to understated luxury with a dash of sportiness like the regular IS 350 rather than attempt an in-your-face supercar with simply a huge engine and cheesy ricer looks. its probably wayy quick and will handle well, but its just m3, rs4, or c63 AMG status

the last sentence shoulda said "but its just NOT m3, rs4, or c63 AMG status", my badd haha

So the Lexus got annihilated on every category except price and features. No intelligent person is surprised. Nice try though!

I still don't get this car though (I-SF). No German car fan would be caught dead in one, so all it will do is cannibalize sales of Lexus' exisiting products. Oh well.

isf cannibalizing cheaper lexus cars is not a bad thing for lexus.

Yes... and the outside is way better. The B8 RS4 will be steaming hot.

The interior doesn't bother me (on the B7), though. If you've sat in one, you'd know that there's something about it that makes you feel special. It gives you a sense of occasion that I haven't experienced with AMG or M cars--it feels more focused, just sitting in it.

Its just a matter of time before the germans fall.

huu76, I thought I'd already addressed this.

Lexus has NOT discovered how to make a BALANCED vehicle.

Why do you think the BMW Ms, RS's and AMGs win all the comparison tests, against the IS-F and within their own trio? Because they have BALANCE. Balance goes beyond handling--it is the combination of track-ready handling and everyday comfort. This, the Germans have perfected. Lexus can only make one or the other--not both in the same car. That's the difference.

Love all the back and forth lashing...

Keeps me entertained at work. haha

wheres the popcorn?

You can't compare a Toy with a Muscle Car like the Audi.

So I suggest we begin :)

RS4 definitely takes the cake, performance, handling, etc...just wish they would update the exterior...looks dated

and I live in the United States - RS4 looks like an A4 with some light body modifications....not much different than it has for the past 10 years

Listen!
How often you all driven to 0-60mls? Never you do it! This is to expensiv for all normal driver and owner! Only the Press-Boys like it to do. The car needs often new parts. Also forget the 0-60mls and drive with your head not with a silly leg.

Yawn...........
Glad I've been at the SEMA show while all this bickering takes place.

Lets see: at over 400 HP, where traction matters, the AWD car beats the the 2wd car. Big f***ing deal. Is anyone surpsised?

This isn't rocket science. Its F=mA, and A is proportional to traction (friction). In 10 years, when Lexus sees the light and copies Audi's AWD system, then they'll be able to match (maybe) but until then its just another commuter car on steroids.