Forbes does a comparison of luxury brand demographics

Please anyone interested in this topic read the whole article, which doesnt just have Lexus last and then leave it at that. There are actually many luxury makes below Lexus, and among luxury truck makes, even MBZ and Land Rover place below Lexus.

This has always been the main appeal of Lexus. 90% of the car and rock solid reliability at 70% of the price. It is a strong appeal.

That could be why the Nieman Marcus Outlet always is packed full of Lexus and very few other premium brands. Maybe they just want something for cheaper.

It seems to me the results of this survey are very much in line with what one would expect to see. Among cars, Porsche and MB both of which command a significant price over the other especially in higher end models are near at the top. Followed by Audi, Jag, BMW, Lexus which makes sense becuase on average the prices decrease in that order, with the possible excpetion of BMW which may be skewed to lower income due to popularity of the 3-series among lower income buyers.

For Trucks, the trend is much less clear. Porsche is at the top with its Cayenne which makes sense since that is an expensive car on average. But Volvo fits in next, not becuase of price but likely becuase the conservative buyers of SUV's at income level may be using them for family needs and are thus concerned with safety more than other issues. Similarly Lexus is higher than expected likely becuase of its wide array of high end SUVs LX/GX/RX combine to be cover quite a large span of luxo SUV market. Benz is near the bottom in this case because all it has in this segment is the ML which is not really a high end SUV. More of an entry level midsize SUV, (and not a very good one at that). The GL is very new, and the G is so low volume it would barely be a blip. The surprise in this case is probably Land Rover which I would have expected to place higher, although when Range Rover sales are combined with Discovery and Freelander sales that would drop the average significantly. It is also possible that there are significant numbers of "urban" buyers of Range Rovers and Escalades who don't always have the income to back up their purchases...

that said I expect ForbesAuto is not that popular among the urban crowd so who knows! The Truck list is quite random in that sense. Almost as if price is not as much of a factor, people just buy what they want.

I would say the disparity in the truck segment is due in part to higher end customers having different priorities with their trucks as they do with cars. A wealthy person would probably already have a sports sedan and would look to buy a more practical luxury SUV without it necessarily be a sporty one to satisfy family needs. Family needs tend to prioritize safety and room, thus explaining Volvo's ranking.

The truck market definitely makes less logical sense then the sedan/spoprts car market due to the additional parameters: safety and room.

I agree with you AutoEng, the Truck list is all over the place with average income not being even remotely close to what public brand perception is:


Trucks
Porsche $199,733
Hummer $150,026
BMW $166,812
Land Rover $154,765
MercedesBenz $149,101
Volvo $170,101
Lexus $160,819
Lincoln $146,173
Cadillac $159,215
Acura $161,062
Average: $161,781

Porsche followed by Volvo is not what one would expect.

Well I guess Audi owners are able to afford BMWs after all. If we were to place Audi on the SUV chart currently, they would probably be among the top brands because the Q7 is higher priced than most competitors including the 4.2 version which starts at near $60K and also because the Q5 is not out yet.

But since when is $41,000 not luxury car territory?

What do you suppose the average price of a Lexus ES is?

nicad:

and despite 3-series being a huge part of BMW sales, the BMW brand still has a higher average income than lexus.

and FYI...IS, ES and RX (all entry level like the 3-series) total 75% of lexus sales.

Poor argument there amazinBbimmer. By your same assumption you could segment the other carmakes and somehow (incorrectly) say that the entry level car buyers should not be averaged with the total brand segment. This seems like a desperate measure to bring up the median income for the BMW brand.

Clearly, most brands listed in this article have the same entry level "handicaps". BMW is not different just because they depend heavily on sales of the 3-series. For all brands it makes economic sense that their "cheapest" models would have more demand.

You don't have to deaverage the data by class type fool. All class-types are included.

You just can't accept the facts.

Because the BMW 3-series is BMW's best selling car by a wide margin, you have less affluent people buying them and therefore it brings the average down.

Don't blame me for the average BMW household income being less than Audi's.

Looks like BMW owners are the poor ones now.

Show me that bimodal distribution of yours...otherwise I can't accept your statement.

BMW is not all top-end cars unfortunately for you amazinBimmer.

BMW doesn't have competitors to the Mercedes SL, S and CL 600 models, not to mention the 65 AMG's that cost over $195K a pop.

Audi is the number three brand in terms of household income behind only Porsche and Mercedes-Benz.

Man it must SUCK to be down there with Lexus and Jaguar.....have fun hanging out with the psuedo luxury brand from Japan and the British loser that saw its sales hit rock bottom under Ford ownership.

Of course amazinBimmer needs a "bimodal distribution" to break down the data by class because sadly, BMW's best selling car by far is the 3-series.You don't have CEOs and Presidents of companies driving 3-series. Instead you have secretaries, administrative assistants and other low income people.

Accept the facts, BMW owners are not that wealthy as you believe and Audi owners are on average wealthier.

Who cares if you break it down by class anyway. BMW might be higher at the high end, but on the low end, because they sell so many cars that are affordable to low income people, their average is dragged down.

No wonder, BMW owners are low income themselves.

Maybe your the one who couldn't get that executive level job, I'm sure your an entry level engineer making a lowly $100K. How does it feel to have busted your balls for that engineering degree in undergrad?

My question to you Germannut is that if the Audi average income is so high why don't they buy A8's they only sell 200 to 300 per month. A6 is not so hot either, I don't know the average income BMW owner but I see alot more high end BMW and Mercedes than Audi. Audi suxs barely better than Saab, Audi will never be the icon BMW has become just look on local highways.

That doesn't have ANYTHING to do with household income.

I "only" bought an S4 and not an A8, but I'll tell you this... I make a helluva lot more than the average Audi income. The average amount of money does not correlate with the average transaction price. There are people that have huge mansions and new money, and yet they have less cash than others who live in small apartments. Nothing is really how it seems.

You'd probably be surprised to learn that many people with 7 Series, S-Classes etc. make less than A6 owners. That most S/7 customers lease. That, if Audi owners had wanted to, they could have gone for more expensive models instead, or even other brands; they just didn't want to. I'm one of those people.

I'm having a hard time understanding how you could possibly say this when the article clearly lists the average income, with Audi being higher than BMW.

I believe your emotional response is due to some confusion regarding these numbers. To say that Audi buyer's have higher median incomes than BMW does not mean that Audi sells more higher end models, it only means that the people that buy Audi's make more money than people that buy BMWs (on average). So, for the sake of clarity, Audi's could cost $15,000 and BMWs $90,000 on average but people that buy Audis, regardless of their price, make more than those that buy BMWs.

Unfortunately for you Larry I see plenty of Audi's around MY local roads. Maybe if I drove through "less gifted" parts of town would I find more BMWs.

Audi SALES in the US do suck, and past Audi marketing as much as media idiots from "60 Minutes" are to blame for that. Audi's design, technology and performance are however another matter. Worldwide leadership is the proof. The A6 is the leading Executive class sedan in the world and Audi global sales are on par with BMW and MB and even growing at a faster pace. I could talk about design, awards, motorsport success, technology leadership, leading safety features and ratings, much improved reliability, etc. but a lot has already been said.

Larry, you're missing the fact that Audi is the preferred brand for people who want a luxury car, but don't want to advertise that they have money. Whereas BMW is the favourite of adrenaline stock-broker types and Benz for lawyer types, both groups needing to show off their success (real or not) as the most important buying decision.

The foreseeable has come to fruition- this thread has degenerated into little more than insecure posturing and ad hominem.

Under what bastardized rules of conduct or place is this type of behavior appropriate? I have a suggestion, and it would be the gutter.

I am thoroughly unimpressed.

Also provide a link to the Article please, or do i have research the Truth on Google

Larry, if you bothered to click on the link you would get to the article. (moron).

You have to scroll down to see the lists of cars and trucks respectively.

Larry, Audi will become the icon that BMW is. Give the company another 20 years.

The reason why you don't think Audi is the global icon BMW is, is because you live in the United States.

You very well know Audi's weakest market is the United States. What would be the case if you lived in China, Larry? You would see Audis left and right and more often than BMW.

Well you don't see that many low-end Audis as you do with BMWS and their dime a dozen 3-series.

Don't blame me for BMW having locked up the secretaries, administrative assistants and hairstylists who barely crack 6 figues if their lucky and get attracted to the ultimate driving machine better than anyone else.

20 years? What is this "20 years" stuff? I'd say 10.

German-Nut: a correction. The hair-stylists buy Corvettes. Most folks don't know who the 'vette buyers are, but they're mostly the female owners of hair salons.
At least that's what the head of Dodge's Viper racing division (for Le Mans) said about "America's Sports Car" :)

Sure, Audi may have lower sales than BMW in the high-end range of say $75K +.

Audi has a much larger percentage of its sales in the middle of the road bracket of lets say $50K-74K than does BMW.

Audi has much fewer of its sales in the sub $50K bracket than does BMW that sells probably 1 gazillion 3-series, of which 99% cost less than $50K

Sure BMW may have more buyers in high-end vehicles but they also have by far the most buyers in low-end vehicles....hence ths shitty average income rating for BMW owners.

If BMW wanted the cred of Porsche they should attract a large percentage of their buyers to the 7-series and 6-series price bracket instead of the 3-series price bracket.

Of course, their sales then would be much lower....but hey you win some and you lose some.

"If BMW wanted the cred of Porsche they should attract a large percentage of their buyers to the 7-series and 6-series price bracket instead of the 3-series price bracket."

Of course, that isn't happening because the 7 Series is currently the worst car in the big luxe class.

S4cab........ Agreed.
BMW does small cars well, but isn't quite there with the big ones.
And then there's "i-drive"..........

Here in the U.K, all 3 brands are popular from Germany. But i must say, in recent years 4/5 the amount of Audis on the road has increased hugely. They are being recognised as a premium brand almost on par with MB and BMW. However, it does tend to be the A3 and A4 that is seen in both wagon and saloon form. But of course, cars over here appear to be much more expensive than most countries.

Audi is the most popular premium brand in the UK, in case you guys didn't know.

"Audi is the most popular premium brand in the UK, in case you guys didn't know."

I live in the U.K, yes i know. However, it is the entry models such as the A3 and 4 that are selling well. The E class and 5 Series, as with the 7 and the S outsell the higher models in the Audi range.

The A6 outsells the E and 5er on a world basis; the A8 has never been a huge seller but it's beautiful, and sales don't indicate anything in the top-luxe class.

You also must acknowledge that the 3 Series is EASILY the best-seller for BMW in EVERY market. The 1 Series is fairly popular, also, but not quite A3. The low-end models will be popular in any market so what you said about Audi is not surprising in the least.

It is funny to read luxury car definition as a car over $30K MSRP... In Europe you get a better equipped Ford Focus diesel for this amount, hardly (near) luxury class. In Asia there are no imports brands AT ALL at this price level (sans the Smart micro-car).

If Europe luxury class starts around 55K euro or about 80 grand US$ and Asia starts at about $90K, the true US luxury segment should really be considered upwards of ~$48K (all prices retail). I do not know about recent Canadian pricing for luxury cars, but considering the high flying Canadian dollar, I would bet minimum 65K US$ for the luxury threshold there.

This would obviously eliminate 95% Acura, 80% Lexus and 75% Infiniti sales, but the owners of the remaining vehicles would be on par with the Mercedes Benz owner group. More rich folks tend to buy more expensive cars.

Sorry Forbes but your statistics as-is make no sense at all.

Exchange rates have little to do with the cost of living as these fluctuate daily while real income and buying power doesn't fluctuate nearly as close.

I don't think the European luxury class is 55K Euros... that's pretty high-end. You can get a Range Rover Sport, high-end midsized sedan, etc, at that price. It's more like 35K Euros.

I agree ... and disagree. The US luxury threshold should be higher but not for the reason that it is just higher somewhere else.

For decades, in the auto world (specifically) LUXURY has been defined as the wealthy people's ability to buy commodities that were out of reach of the common folk. As more people desire wealthy (without actually achieving it) the term luxury has become more "common" and thus the value of "Luxury" has diminished.

This has a direct effect on marketing and pricing and raises the question, does Lexus really belong in the Luxury segment at their value pricing category? you could say yes, because their cars come equiped with plenty of features, but by the assumed definition of true luxury Lexus does not really belong as a Luxury make because their cars are accessible to the masses, clearly not luxury.

Does this make sense? of course not. The problem is that OEMs are more focused on profits rather than on market perception, so they take their luxury brands and make them accessible to many.

Few tru luxury brands remain: Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Bentley and Rolls Royce (among the best known). By the same definition of true luxury these brands qualify because they are unreachable commodities to most.

Lexus has a big disadvantage, its current product base is fully focused on luxury and hardly any sport. German brands can sell as performance machines that have luxury.

So next time you go to your Lexus dealership ask yourself if you're getting a luxury car or simply overpaying for a common car full of features.

Don't forget Maserati and Aston Martin... but yes, I agree.

It is also arguable that Audi's S/RS lineup, BMW's M cars, Mercedes's AMG division and Jaguar's R series are all "true luxury" vehicles because of their exclusivity, high pricing and excellent performance/luxury.

huu76, you just answered your own question.

German makes' entry level cars would be accepted since they are perceived as luxury nameplates.

Regarding your logic, you can't rationalize that because a household makes a lot of money that they SHOULD buy a more expensive car. CAN and SHOULD is an argument that is heavily emotional for most people willing to put a lot of money in a car (unlike the rest who could care less about their mode of transport and only willing to pay for a value car). You could have a rich man desperately desiring to buy an Audi A1, and just because you can't comprehend that it does not mean its not a fact. The numbers on this article are proof to that, Audi buyers pay less for a comparable BMW but make more on average.

huu76: you're actually making sense.
Good point.
Similarly with all the lower-end Lexus cars bought by folks making less than 100k. They aren't included either, so I don't know if that would skew it much, but certainly it would be interesting to see numbers for ALL purchasers of these brands to see what the effect is.

Thanks for defining a typical BMW buyer.

amazinBimmer, I won't bet you $500, because you would go broke. It's all you have. I would just feel terrible doing that to someone.

amazinBimmer, you loser, give me your 500 bucks. There is no way you make five times what I make. I personally made $5,000,000 last year. Yes, that is 6 zeroes after the 5.

You are a nice example of the poor BMW owner unlike us wealthier Audi owners.

I'm sorry... but are we supposed to believe you? What do you do, exactly? Are you some sort of famous movie producer/director/actor/writer?

I'm not famous, I'm just extremely hard working and I have for all practical purposes, monopolized my industry. I take out my competitors and understand how to find excellent deals.

My impression of the relative buyer differences (from looking at who's driving what on the roads for 3 decades) is:
Lexus buyers are often ones who have to share the car with their wife, who doesn't like the "rough ride" of the German performance marks.
I think most guys would buy the German car is their wife would let them. But there are many exceptions.
And how many households do you know where the guy drives a German car, and his wife drives a Japanese car, or the other way around.
One neighbour drives an S550 while his wife drives a 350Z.
Another drives an FX45 while his wife drives the Touareg.
And almost EVERY Porsche Cayenne that I've seen in the Vancouver area is being driven by an attractive blond woman yaking on a cell phone. What's with that?