GM thinks hybrids are useless in Europe but no one has told Lexus

General Motors is the second major carmaker in as many days to announce plans to concentrate on developing efficient diesel powertrains and mild-hybrid systems for Europe rather than more complicated and expensive full hybrid vehicles. Yesterday Ford said it too would focus on stop-start motors and improved aerodynamics to increase fuel efficiency of its European fleet instead of hybrid tech.

Europeans have been slow to take to hybrids because modern diesel powertrains offer similar fuel consumption but cost thousands of dollars less. Because of this low demand, GM thinks that micro and mild-hybrid systems will be more marketable across Europe.

Lexus on the other hand sees hybrid as a way of differentiating itself in Europe.
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enthusiastx11 - 11/7/2007 10:16:01 AM

+1 Boost

discuss hybrids, but don't even pretend that the LS600h is doing anything good for the world.

december issue of motor trend tested quattroporte, S550, jag super v8 and lexus ls600hl. lexus came in dead last. they said it "overpromises and underdelivers on performance, fuel economy and luxury."

mpg: quattroporte 11.7, S550 12.9, jag 12.4 and ls 14.9. so basically you compromise everything for 2 mpg better than the S550. and 14.9 is still really shitty mileage.

r15mohd - 11/7/2007 10:21:43 AM

0 Boost

car and driver
http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/12881/2008-lexus-ls600hl.html

"...the LS600hL returned 20 mpg during its week-long visit with us."

FUEL ECONOMY:
2008 EPA city driving: 20 mpg
C/D-observed: 20 mpg

enthusiastx11 - 11/7/2007 2:37:05 PM

0 Boost

r15:

only apples to apples comparisons are useful. in the test i quoted, the same drivers in the same climate drove the same cars. and the LS returned 2MPG more. i'm sure one could get 18MPG out of the S550 if you don't step on it.

AUTO_UNION - 11/7/2007 9:22:35 AM

0 Boost

GM is right. No one in Europe is really interested in hybrid! I bet if Lexus would make some more cars with diesel engines their sales would increase dramatically.

Lavic - 11/7/2007 9:25:48 AM

+2 Boost

"Lexus on the other hand sees hybrid as a way of differentiating itself in Europe."

Seems to me that they would need a way to differantiate themself from the S-Class wannabe moniker.

But, it is only marketing. It is not a willfull change to better the environnement.

CLK63BlackSeries - 11/7/2007 9:35:35 AM

+3 Boost

"But, it is only marketing. It is not a willfull change to better the environnement."

Exactly! All these manufacturers are doing is trying to make a buck. They can care less about being "Green" or whatever they call it. They follow what is trendy and unfortunately for them it's hybrid power. I'll take mine in diesel please...

DieselRules - 11/9/2007 12:05:41 AM

+1 Boost

Yeah! What he said!!!

Luxurious - 11/7/2007 10:11:06 AM

+3 Boost

I read the original article and it didnt mention "Lexus" in it anywhere..
how can you guys copy an article from a different website and just add stuff to it from your own head, or you just gotta diss Lexus for no reason!

r15mohd - 11/7/2007 11:21:54 AM

0 Boost

ask midengine, he's infatuated with finding anything to bash Lexus, or toyota for that matter.

r15mohd - 11/7/2007 11:55:36 AM

-1 Boost

hype?

more like "the relentless pursuit of perfection" ;)

enthusiastx11 - 11/7/2007 12:10:04 PM

+2 Boost

r15:

discuss the cars. but please don't quote marketing propaganda.

r15mohd - 11/7/2007 12:35:23 PM

-1 Boost

enthus...

marketing propaganda? are you offended that i quoted something resemblance of Lexus? wait does that boil your blood?

lol...relax old man, i think its time for your nap!

enthusiastx11 - 11/7/2007 2:40:05 PM

+2 Boost

to be blunt, nothing about lexus even makes my blood warm...let alone boil.

thanks for your concern. but i'm well rested and doing great.

enjoy your day!

r15mohd - 11/7/2007 10:29:59 PM

+1 Boost

really, some of the hatred you show toward a leading manufacturer really doesnt sit well with most.

you must be a calm and well collected individual, or maybe the valium is kicking in...

good for you!!!

enthusiastx11 - 11/8/2007 12:49:19 AM

+1 Boost

r15:

; )

EL34 - 11/7/2007 12:03:13 PM

-2 Boost

Apparently the Brits are saying they want their boots back!!!

Rupert - 11/7/2007 12:29:45 PM

-1 Boost

lol thanks for the british english EL...although it took me a while to figure out what you meant.

Rupert - 11/7/2007 12:31:12 PM

-1 Boost

I think mild hybrids are better, especially when teamed with diesels.
BMW's efficient dynamics is a good example of this.

Lexus - 11/7/2007 5:29:51 PM

-4 Boost

midengine, do you use to work for you Toyota and got fire, is that why hate Toyota/Lexus so much? If not, get of Toyota balls dude, give it rest, everyone here know how much you hate Toyota.

rybo - 11/7/2007 10:10:16 PM

+5 Boost

What's taking so long for diesel hybrids to arrive. I'd think they would smash the current cars in the mileage stakes.

DieselRules - 11/9/2007 12:11:04 AM

+1 Boost

The main reason for the delay is that if you have a diesel you don't need all that hybrid technology. The added weight will offset any gains from the hybrid technology. The rare exception to this is big, heavy items that do stop-and-go all day long.
i think diesel hybrid is perfect for city busses.
But i don't want to drive a city bus myself.

XYZZ - 11/9/2007 6:46:54 AM

0 Boost

diesels = extra wt. over gas engines + extra cost

hybrids = extra wt. + extra cost

diesel hybrid = ~2x extra wt. + ~2x extra cost +/-

XYZZ - 11/9/2007 6:39:27 AM

0 Boost

prolonged exposure to diesel fumes has been linked to CANCER.

XYZZ - 11/9/2007 6:55:29 AM

0 Boost

diesel is not the panacea some would THINK it is.

granted, it IS efficient in many applications. but in some apps, other, even conventional alternatives are better.

in another forum, owner of a new tundra with the 5.7 and double overdrive, said he gets comparable and BETTER mileage than he did with his previous gm diesel truck.

considering unlike in europe, diesel fuel here is NOT subsidized and COSTS MORE than gasoline, his new gas tundra is CHEAPER TO RUN than his old diesel pickup.

XYZZ - 11/9/2007 7:07:55 AM

+1 Boost

guy i personally know got a crewcab diesel chassis. NO extra weight besides the cab.

he got only 10 - 12 mpg.

later, he put on a flatbed, toolbox, etc. STILL got 10 -12. having had many diesel pickups, he said he generally ALWAYS gets about 10 mpg, loaded OR UNLOADED. (might edge up toward 11 and 12 on trips.)

Rupert - 11/9/2007 11:50:22 AM

+1 Boost

Diesel costs more than petrol in Britain.
And it's not subsidized, petrol is just more expensive.

AudiLexus - 11/10/2007 4:18:57 PM

+1 Boost

Seeing as the hybrid Lexus models are best-selling variants of the GS and RX lines in Europe, I'd say Lexus is right. Comparing GM and Lexus's European sales strategy is the fundamental problem here.