Comparison: 2008 Jaguar Super V8 vs 2008 Lexus LS600hL vs 2007 Mercedes-Benz S550 vs 2007 Maserati Quattroporte Sport GT

The LS460 competes in this class. The LS600hL was developed to compete against the V12s. Can't any of these car rags get that straight?

Serious question, what difference would it make? the comparison was not won/loss based on price, because the Maserati outpriced it by 18k.

Do you think a LS600h that promises V12 performance but cannot keep up with V8s would be outperformed by its less expensive LS460?

Its a lose-lose situation. If the LS460 can do better in the test, it means the LS600h is a major failure because it can't live up to its V8 counterparts.

Audi was not included because of the all-wheel-drive, yet the LS600hL is
even though it also has AWD. This is one of the reasons these comparisons should always be taken with a grain of salt.
"Audi's Lambo-V-10-powered S8 is another compelling choice, but its 59/41 weight distribution and all-wheel drive mute the handling a bit, and its bodywork is perhaps conservative to a fault"

david999, stop your whinin' and take your lumps.

apparently the LS600 can't compete in this class.

david:

read the article. audi was not included because they would only allow ONE car from each country. and the benz was deemed superior to the audi. furthermore, the LS600 is the only car from japan in this price range, so it was the automatic entry.

999, your logic is weak at best, however, I do think it was a mistake not including some type of A8 in this test. The reason they didn't include it(based on the quote you gave) seems rediculous to me.

That Maserati is my favorite out of the bunch emotionally, but I would be hard pressed to choose it over the S550 for daily use.

Why did they not choose the V12 Jag or V12 Benz if they include the LS600?
The Maserati is $34,000 more than the Jag, so the price does not seem to be a factor here.

david999, the leather in the Italian stallion fantastico!

is fantastico!...BTW :)

"Why did they not choose the V12 Jag or V12 Benz if they include the LS600?"

because that would have been a comparison of V12 cars. this is a comparison of V8 cars.

furthermore, there is no V12 jag offered in the states. and the benz version in particular is WAY over $100,000...it STARTS at $145,000. by the way, the maserati can be had for $116,000.

Price as tested of the Maserati was over $128,000. Why not compare the LS460
with the other V8s, instead of the LS600hL, which was developed as the alternative to other V12 luxury vehicles.

because the LS600 has.....a V8. and it's lexus flagship and should embody the best of the brand.

also, they could have optioned up the LS600 to $121,000...but extra weight of those options would have slowed it down even more.

the maserati didn't need the options they put on it (like crazy expensive wheels). it's fully equipped at $116,000.

david999...
You keep saying that they should have compared the LS600 to V12 sedans, because that's Lexus target...
well if it places DEAD LAST among V8 sedans, then what makes you think it's comparable to a V12 sedan? It can't compete.

"Audi was not included because of the all-wheel-drive, yet the LS600hL is
even though it also has AWD. This is one of the reasons these comparisons should always be taken with a grain of salt."

Nice job filtering quotes, david, but as enthusiast already said the S8 wasn't included because they could only choose ONE car from Germany. The S550 is the fairly obvious choice.

just shut up and stop being a sore loser.

Listen, the LS600 is no V12 competitor. You have to drive a real V12 to understand that.

The Lexus lost again.

No excuses please for not including the Audi A8L -- the A8L is the best value by far. Although the LWB Jag has plenty of rear leg room (contrary to an earlier observation i made a few years ago), the fake wood plastered all over its dash causes too much glare and taller passengers always bang their head on the roof trying to get into the rear seat. The Mercedes has too many techno gimmicks that cost and arm and a leg to repair. The big Lexus is a hybrid which makes it an oxymoron. The Quattroporte probably has the most character but too few dealers to service it.

the maserati is by far the best performing luxury sedan in this group. the s550 is a great car, but not the best

The S8 would be the best luxury sport car in this class. A go anywhere, anytime super cruiser with best in class interior and modern styling (unlike the plain boring soap-bar looking LS).

They should have included the A8 and 7er to complete the luxury full size class.

Do I hear a bit of a sour note?

Like the sour exhaust note of the LS600 Hybrid ;)

Exactly. The LS600hL is more comfortable, better fuel economy, more technology, better warrenty, and yet because it does not handle more like a sports car, Motor Trend thinks this Luxury vehicle is not as good as even the Jaguar? Ha!

david:

"The LS600hL is more comfortable, better fuel economy, more technology..."

WRONG. the article said the LS600 "overpromises and underdelivers on performance, fuel economy, and even luxury."

furthermore, the guys at motor trend and car & driver get to drive more cars--in more conditions--than any of us. so i think they know what they're talking about.

"Lexus and Mercedes each offer about two cubic feet more space in back than the Jag does",

Also, look at the last page of the article where they compare in table form the vehicles.

The Jaguar is actually quieter than the Lexus. The Lexus under-delivers on luxury too. It wasn't about wanting the sedans to be sports cars.

If they would have said the Lexus rules you would be the first one to praise them. This is called hypocracy.

Although the Maserati is sexy, I do believe the new S550 is above and beyond the other vehicles. I dont think they chose the 7 series because it is due for a redesign next fall.

Lexus last again...

:(

Outdated 7 series and A8 not even considered.Again....

JUGNU

did you read the article?

they chose only ONE car from each country. isn't it logical that they would choose the newest model (S-class) and not the ones that are at the end of their lifecycle?

furthermore, germany was the only country which offered a CHOICE of cars in this class. every other country had only ONE competitor to put forward.

4th place: Lexus LS 600hL
OVERPROMISES and UNDERDELIVERS on performance, fuel economy, and even luxury.

Enough said.

If that was "enough said", why bother posting a quote of it?

Answer,

Does it bother you THAT much?

Some people dont want to hear the truth a second time. You ask why, I say why not?

Answer,

Does it bother you THAT much?

Some people dont want to hear the truth a second time. You ask why, I say why not?

Not really.

Now I that I think about it, double-posting actually bothers me more.

"The LS460 competes in this class"

And would still end up in the same posistion.

There is a brand spankin' new BMW 7-Series coming ;)

for daily driving, i'd take the S550 no question. looks, luxury, performance, technology--it does it all.

however, the maserati is SOOOO gorgeous (have you guys seen the interior of this car!) and handles so well, that it would be my choice--if it were a second car and i didn't have to deal with all its quirks on a daily basis.

Couldn't agree more Enthusiast...When I see the Maserati on the road I always look...beautiful auto(like a piece of art- up there with some of the new Aston Martins)...but the S550 everyday.

I completely agree with of you. The Quattroporte is gorgeous, sexy, stunning, a real dream sedan. The S550 is hot, too, and although it can't match for style or performance it does everything else with amazing competence.

now only if every car was as gorgeous as the maserati...

Well, then the Maserati would have to be even more gorgeous so that it could still be exotic. LOL, it's a balancing act. If every car was that good-looking there would be no exotics to lust after.

I agree 100%.

XDrive

The answer to your question is really very simple. They ENVY the german automakers.

Now, why they envy them I dont know. Thats the million dollar question. But I think it has a lot to do with affordability.

This is the 2nd time that Lexus has placed dead last in a comparison similar to this one. Car and Driver did a test with the LS460L against the Super V8, S550, A8L 4.2 Quattro and the750Li. In their test the Lexus came in 5th place for almost the same exact reasons. Wasn't this car supposed to be the premium luxury 'go-getter'? On another note the first place winner was Mercedes' S550 which has clearly set the standard for all other cars in its class to follow. Better luck next time Lexus!

Looks like ToyLex needs to go back to the drawing board.

Here is a crazy idea, instead of people constantly stating how the LS hybrid sucks, how about a little brain-storming?

What should the LS hybrid have to be a "success" in the eyes of the naysayers here?

Me? I think it should offer way more in terms of interior color choice options and exclusive materials.

I'm a sucker for things like the piano black wood trim used on one of MB's designo S class models. Little stuff like that goes a long way.

A good color for any Lexus is pink.

Answer

How about forgetting all that stupid nonsense of color and trim and focusing more on the terrible overpromised drivetrain, engine, and performance.

Lexus overlooked all of the above but didnt forget the leather and trim. Thats where they went terribly WRONG.

And thats what people like you fail to see.

I love when w209w114 tries to post something intelligent. (It's so cute!)

But as I made reference in a story posting yesterday, if you look at the BMW 760il and the hybrid LS they do match up very well in performance. I mean by that the numbers that people turn to when deciding upon a car, and the numbers that they actually use when driving (msrp, 0-60, mpg).

If you see the hybrid LS with sales and discounting equaling the Acura RL, then you might consider it a failure. However, for a first attempt, this LS is worthy of being compared with the others here.

Just because you don't like something, it doesn't mean it's going to be a failure.

More personalisation.
Better performance, better real world economy, a lower price. That's all :P

Answer

So just because its their "first" attempt we should cut them some slack?!?!

Give me a break. This car was supposed to be the biggest thing since the invention of the gasoline engine. Lexus really blew it. I can imagine a lot of people that bought this car ebfore they knew anything about it would be upset.

Could you blame me for expecting something that was promised?

I think the LS600hL's stupendous weight is unnecessary and certainly brings its performance and efficiency down a few notches.

It should also have more standard features--at a $35K premium over the LS460L, I want the power rear seats, self-park, cooling box, heated rear seats, etc. standard, thank you very much! The A8L W12, S600 and 760Li all have a LOT more standard than their V8 counterparts.

what are you talking about? LS600h has a better weight to horse power ratio then all of them except the Maserati.

And it's easily as fast, and breaks in shorter distances.

Are you kidding?

I'm serious. You ARE joking, right?

Because assuming it does have the best hp/lb ratio--I'm just assuming here--it still weighs almost 5100lbs, more than a BMW X5 and more than enough to hamper any effect the 438hp had on the car's performance.

But anyway, I highly doubt it. The Jag weighs about 1200lbs less and has 18 less horsepower. Could you give me a link?

Let Lexus figure it out by themselves, if they need help (which they do) then they don't belong in the same company of Audi/BMW/MB/Jaguar/Maserati. They've copied enough from the Germans.

I'm so glad the Maserati came in 1st. That car deserves recognition for what it is. If I had the money and was shopping for a car in this class, I'd pick it, hands down...one word: exclusivity.

What I am about to say may surprise some people. First, none of these cars really have any mystery to me anymore and so there really is no strong emotional appeal for any of them. Having said that, I think, at the moment my preferences mimic their list.

1. Maserati - I find this car far from perfect and so it and the number two position are very close in my mind. First, I find that Pininfarina’s designs age prematurely and this car is no exception. The front is quite beautiful, but the proportion of the rear window and its relationship to the door panel is pseudo-90’s. I think the car is simply too short- the back seat is too small. Some of the details are dated; most notably the inlay facing the back seat has a very strange execution and reminds me of shows from the 70’s. I also find that how aged the car looks is a function of its color. Grey is a horrendous looking color on it in my opinion. I do like the execution of the wood in most cases-in particular the use of the grain, but the plastic on the center console is unimpressive. After all of this, it is still number one on my list at the moment.

2. Mercedes S550 – There are only a few things that I don’t like about the Mercedes. The primary one is the dash section under which the Command screen is housed- it looks like an afterthought and really is poorly designed. The other thing is that every time I go to look at one it seems impossible to find an interior color that isn’t ugly. They all seem too dark to me.

3. Jaguar Super V8 (2008) – I hate the 2008 XJ. I don’t know what tasteless nouveau riche person they designed it for, but its garish and tacky grille is simply hideous. It also looks funny without the hood ornament. If someone were to give me this car I would sell it and buy a 2007 XJ. The previous Jag at least looked classic. I would rather have a used pretty Jag than an ugly Jag. I hope they don’t screw up the next XJ.

4. Lexus LS600hL –It’s just not “me”. I don’t know it as well as the others, I will admit. I have sat in the new LS- its isn’t my cup of tea.

The Lexus feels like driving a couch, like a Buick.

Go to your couch and sit at one end and pretend your hands are on the sterring wheel and that's what driving a Lexus LS600 feels like.

:)

Cdoke

Spot on with your analysis.

I have been filled with dread with the Jag facelifts since the 2004 facelift of the S-Type
Then the R Edition mods became Very Tacky {Like something you would find on a Mustang}

Now the 2008 facelift of the XJ.

Very sad indeed.

I actually liked Ian Callum's redesign of the S-type as far as the grill is concerned- I think it added a much needed depth. I honestly didn't pay that much attention to whatelse was changed.

I would rate them in this order.

1st - Jaguar XJ, but I would save my money and get the Jag XF instead, the XF is better looking and probably has the finest interior this side of a Bentley, I sat in one at the weekend and everyone at the motorshow was equally amazed by it.

2nd Maserati Quattroporte - slghtly awkward looking fron end, but it has Italian charm!

3rd Lexus LS600hL - No badge appeal and very much has the the look and feel of a Toyota.

4th Mercedes S550 - Bland styling, gadgets are the only thing it brings to the party!

I do think that you have lost your mind, my dear sir.

He has not lost his mnd

He just works for Jaguar

His mortgage payments depend on Jag sales so he is constantly working on his Sales Spin.

That's amazing because at the motorshow I went to everyone said how weird the interior was.
I didn't like the XF at all, it's based on the old S type platform (so it's 8 years old already), it looks like a bad cross between a Mondeo, a GS and a small dog, and brings nothing new to the party expect for some useless trivialities like the rotary gearknob and the foldaway vents. Ian Callum's "character marks" (those lights!) just ruin what could have been a very fluid design - he did the same with the XK (again, those lights!)
And Top Gear singing its praises because they want to like it no matter how bad it is won't swing it for me.

It's not bottom of its class, but it instantly comes 3rd or fourth in my book.

But if I see it in a different colour and trim it may change my mind. The one I saw was green (???) with a cream interior which did not sit well with the huge swathes of silver-painted plastic on the dash. It may be better in black.

Well

Im glad you got to see it for yourself
I was sure from the pictures that the XF was going to be a case of Gimmicks.
As long as the Bean Counters are allowed to have final say over the design of a vehicle the results will always be RUBBISH

Oh well

I guess we just have to wait and see what happens with the new Owners.

Lets hope the Range Rover does not suffer the same fate.

I keep having nightmares in which the new Range Rover is launched and it lookes like a Navigator.

If the next Range River comes out as anything less than amazing I will cry.
If it comes out cheap looking I will go and murder some Ford accountants.
If it comes out like a Navigator I will kill myself.

There's an O not an I in Rover...:S

The XF is a disappointment. The concept was beautiful but the production version is underwhelming.

There's a chance the new Range Rover could suck. Ford bought the current design after BMW developed it. A Range Rover (like anything else) developed completely under the auspices of Ford could be as horrible as everything else Ford has built.

Rupert its not the same platform. There was no carry over. It just kept the same dimensions.It uses steel and high strength steel alloys. not in the previous S TYPE so not the same at all. Also 100000000 percent Ford free of parts

From AutoExpress:
As ever, Jaguar is using a front-engined rear-wheel-drive layout, and the XF shares much of its platform architecture with the current S-Type.

In addition, same engines, same gearboxes.

"it looks like a bad cross between a Mondeo, a GS and a small dog"

Hahahahaah love your sense of humour

For me:
1. Maser (every day Ferrari, nuff said)
2. Jag (class & sport, wood, leather, light weight, didn't ruin it w/ gizmos ie BMW)
3. Benz (fantastic cars, styling a little blah? Needs more sport)
4. Lex (great car to be chauffered in I'm sure, but why is it in this test?)

Just the brakes.

LEAVE!!!

I have a friend at MT that knows your friend and he tells me she usually says anything for a buck.

LexusKing .6 ,I have a friend at MT that knows your friend and he tells me she usually says anything for a buck.

you are such a pityous man

I must say, i am rather fond of the Jaguar's character. It is, as sale will tell you, the most exclusive car in its class, even more so than the Maserati. Have you ever sat in the Jag's interior? Its such a warm inviting feeling. Yes, it may be outdated, but that feel of warmth and confort never leaves the car. I also enjoy its driving dynamics. It has a wonderfully compliant ride on the highway, and its handling is refreshingly engaging(more real world than the artificial S-Class) It also has a great engine, and, due to its lighter weight, its mileage is not as bad as one would expect. An its style is well......unique. I know its not the best car in the comparison. Though, for being in this class for such a long time, I have to give it credit for still being such an excellent car.

(If only the other cars weighted as much as the Jag, or less)

"Have you ever sat in the Jag's interior?"

Is this question to me? I OWN an XJ- maybe that is why this stuff irks me. If it is one thing that redeems the car it is the interior- it is beautiful. It is funny how basically just changing the bumpers can really change a car. IC anot bring myself to like the exterior of the 2008 version. I simply hate it. What in the hell are they doing? What is with the tacky side vents- this is a Jaguar, not an Escalade.

The Portfolio model XJ8 featured side vents before the latest Escalade came out with them. I think it was more of a nod to the current Range Rover's 'fish gills' behind the front fender. Maybe Ford wanted to associate Jaguar and Range Rover visually, since they bill Jaguar and RR as two halves of the same whole (British luxury car/suv builder)

Pushrod,

I don't mean that it is literally like the Escalade. It is just very "blingy". The Super V8 Portfolio had different side vents and they were executed better. I was lucky enough to be offered one and to be able to see it before the dealership offered it to the public- they actually thought I was my father. The new vents are just horrible- in particular on the Vanden Plas they look like plastic. I didn't actually go up and tap them so I don't know what they are made out of but they are horribly garish.

"I have a friend who works for Motor Trend She said that the S550 had to be replaced with a new one halfway through the test because the first one had an engine fire. That would never happen on the Lexus."

Very reliable source. I have a friend at Lexus, she says they're s**t.

Rupert, I don't what motorshow you went to??? but it must of been for the visually impaired!! The Jag XF interior kicks Audi's arse, and that is the pre-production interior aswell. ha ha

The interior in now way kicks Audi's arse.
I went to MPH '07, and my eyes are fine thank you.
I liked the XK very much though, but the XF interior looked like it could be in a nice Volvo...that's not how platform sharing should work.

You're a Jaguar salesman, not an Audi salesman. The XF is a disappointment. Case closed.

In no way is the Jag's interior better than any of the Audi's. I've sat in all of them A8 V8, W12 and S8 and they are by far the nicest and not in a funeral-home-look like the Lexus.

Hold on I am the Jaguar salesman !!!!! No Really I am!!!

I went MPH07 at the NEC and you must be the only person who did not like the interior! It was perfection...

"LSh - Overpromises and underdelivers on performance, fuel economy, and even luxury."


Okay, performance wise, it tied with the S550 going 0-60 in 5.6 seconds, it got the best mpg of all of them, and it has plenty of luxury features, but not on their test car. Just because a few people at MotorTrend weren't impressed doesn't mean the LSh is a bad vehicle.

No, nobody's saying it's a bad car. But it's NOT GOOD ENOUGH. It's not good enough to cost over $100K. It's not good enough to merit a "hybrid" badge on its flanks. It's not good enough to put its 438hp to good use. It's not good enough to be better than the LS460.

It IS good enough. It's as fast as the S550 (0-60), it has more luxury features than all of them, and it gets the best mpg. I really don't see how it's a worse car.

It's not good enough. It's as fast as an S550, but it's billed as competition to the V12 crowd. Delivering on performance is about more than 0-60 time. There is also mid-range and high-end engine response, agility, handling, braking, and comporting itself at speed in such a way that gives the driver confidence and pleasure behind the wheel.
The Jaguar outruns the Lexus, outhandles it, maintains compusure under aggressive handling manuevers, and still manages to be quieter and have more luxury features than the Lexus.

lexusIS350:

No, it's not good enough.

It doesn't compare favorably to the other cars in this test. and it doesn't even do ANYTHING better than the LS460. so what's the reason to buy it over an LS460 that's $30,000 less?

So I'm supposed to be one of the 3 people this year who will buy the Jaguar instead of the few thousand people who will buy the Lexus because Motor Trend says so? Heh I don't think so...

And yes, I don't think Motor Trend understands what a Luxury Sedan should be like. You don't determine which is the best luxo sedan according to which one handles better. Rolls Royce Phanton would lose every comparo test for Motor Trend against the Jaguar XJ. Doesn't mean it's not a better car though.

You have not driven the Jaguar XJ, obviously. You're just making assumptions. I have, and it was only the XJ8 model, and it was very impressive. Put your money where your mouth is.

"Put your money where your mouth is."


People do every day. That's why the LS600h is sold out for a year and Jaguar is near bankrupcy;)

"People do every day. That's why the LS600h is sold out for a year and Jaguar is near bankrupcy;)"

If sales were the sole attribute to a good car, then the Chevy Malibu would definitely not be one of the top-10 selling cars in the US.

1st place: Maserati Quattroporte Sport GT
Lights up the brain's pleasure centers like no other sedan we know.


LOL I wonder why is that? Because it sounds and handles like a sports car? Like I said, Motor Trend should stick to testing sport cars, it's obvious they have no clue what a luxury car is supposed to be like.

I didn't know this was so alien to you... but performance is an INTEGRAL part of the luxury car experience. Luxury performance cars (THESE!) are vehicles that go fast and handle well... in comfort. Luxury and performance are not mutually exclusive and in fact, they are given equal weight by most high-end car engineers.

One of the best cases is the BMW 3 Series class. On the surface it's the "entry-luxury sedan" segment... but BMW has kicked everyone in the butt and now they're all trying to make the best SPORT sedans on the market.

well the 3 series should handle like a sports car, because it's little

the LS and XJ should handle more like a Rolls Royce Phantom- which is opposite of what the 3 series feels like.

what you're saying is that the large class luxo sedans are besically the 3 series only bigger. I strongly disagree with that. That's why i'd never spend money on a 7 series.

and the LS does perform. 0-60 in 5.6 sec is plenty fast. I want speed, not race car handling in my full size sedan.

I'd be willing to bet that those shopping for an LS or S class aren't throwing the Maseratti into their pool of choices.

Nothing wrong with the Maseratti, it just actually represents a true performance vehicle. While the luxury vehicles in this article can perform well, their average buyers won't ever notice. That is OK.

The LS doesn't excite a test driver for a car magazine? So what. The actual owners don't care.

And it's not just the Lexus either. If you think that the average S class or Jag is going to be drifting as it merges onto the highway, or testing the zero to sixty time going to Starbucks you are mistaken.

People love to point out how so very few SUVs actually venture off pavement. That same low percentage likely could carry over to the owners of flagship sedans that actually do at-the-limit driving.

A great manufacturer can create a luxury sedan that does everything well. A luxury sedan very well should have great handling. It's a matter of safety. If you're piloting a car that is both extremely heavy and powerful (like full-size luxury sedan), then you should expect handling abilities up to the task of keeping it all under control under any and all manuevers.

the actual owners of the LS are closer to death than the owners of any of these other cars. lexus needs to attract younger people (i.e. under 60) to the LS. and this car isn't doing it.

"what you're saying is that the large class luxo sedans are besically the 3 series only bigger. I strongly disagree with that. That's why i'd never spend money on a 7 series."

NO, I'm not saying that at all. It's called an EXAMPLE.

In this case, read pushrod27's comment. When you're spending over $100K on a car, it should do everything--EVERYTHING--well, whether you want it to or not. I don't care what the buyers want, it should be what Lexus strives for. And this car does not deliver on the performance front. It barely delivers on the luxury front--the LS460L offers all of its interior features sans the leather dash.

maserati FTW!!! awsome car, but the s-class isn't that bad either.

If the LS600hL could not beat the comparos V8 competition it will not stand a chance against the V12's. Lexus is a good brand and not always the best. If the same comparo had Lexus #1 you would be all over it as you have before with other articles Lexus Fanboys. True fans can take good ro bad and not come up with excuses...Toyota is not going to pay you for defending them!!! lol.

FACT: the LS600 is a V8 not a V12. and it's performance (purely in terms of acceleration) is on par with the other V8 cars in this price range.

so why do so many of you insist on comparing it to a V12 BECAUSE LEXUS SAYS SO? are you seriously this naive that you allow yourselves to be spoon-fed propaganda?

amazing.

yes, motor trend is totally out to get lexus....just like all the other independent journalists who say that a lexus is boring.

except when they say nice things...and then you love them.

FYI...the LS600 got 14.9. a whopping 2MPG more than the S550. so the LS600's mileage is right on par with all the other V8 cars in this test.

it's a V8, it accelerates like a V8 and it gets mileage like a V8. what don't you understand about that?

"When you have people hell-bent on making a car lose a comparison"

what information do you have to support this accusation that motor trend and the rest of the media establishment are biased against lexus?

(disregard the fact that lexus/toyota is one of the largest advertisers in the world and most media outlets want to be a very good terms with them--and therefore have a bias in favor of them)

huu76, you are dead on as usual.

i guess you've sipped the kool-aid too david....

Quattroporte for me please!

Or a Merc S600.

Love the Merc the Jag the Quattroporte, the lex well just does nothing for me.

Great article, amazing cars!! I would also have loved to see the V8 Vantage representing the UK!

FASTONEKILLER, your 100% on the mark, well done.

It seems the hybrid system in the LS tends to overheat alot! On my testdrive in Germany I had the same problems. Driving 20 minutes at 200+ kmh may be the cause. Yet all of my other car did this trick without breaking a sweat.

Huu76 and David999 making lame and stupid excuses as usual.

Huu76, how can you claim the LS600h gets good gas mileage? It doesn't in everyday driving, only if you spend most of your driving time in the city.

And the Germans offer diesel engines in their top luxury cars because the luxury market in Europe is a whole different ball game. People want luxury cars that are fuel efficient because of the expensive fuel prices. The LS600h in European tests isn't exactly described as economical...

"I have a better question, why do the Germans put diesels in their flagship sedans if no one cares about mileage in this price range?"

Less fill-ups, more torque, longer range, to name a few.

"Of course, they had to mention the small trunk. I wonder how 5 adults in an A4 manage?"

Except that the Lexus is more than 20 inches longer and 70k more expensive.

"2nd best in braking, only a .2 sec spread in 0-60 eventhough the LS600 is carrying up to 1000lbs more chub."

I don't think anyone wants "up to 1000lbs" of 'chub' in their car. Maybe it would be a better performance if it went on a diet.

That was in response to one of huu's posts.

We b*tch and we whine but what we're forgetting here is that these cars in this comparison are great cars respectively.

Mercedes S550:
- I own an S550 and I support it to the end. Great daily driver, comfortable, quiet, spacious, IMO the benchmark in it's segment.

LS600HL:
- I don't own a 600 but I do the 460 and I drive it equal amounts to the S. Good car for th money. Good technology...but no wow factor to it.

Maserati:
- I've seen it, sat in it, test driven it. Screams like a Ferrari, rides like an luxo-sedan should. Gearbox could be better but overall a great car. Very respectable name and engineering.

Jag Super V8:
- The Jaguar is a nice classic expression of traditional British luxury. Reliably side, it a pretty good blend of comfort and styling. It's a car you know screams luxury when seen on the road.

Lexus ALWAYS understates their 0 - 60 times by at least .5 seconds. Here are the results of the 5 Top Luxury Cars in this test which was reported in the January Issue of Car and Driver. Please note these tests were all done on the same day at about the same time and at the same altitude. The results reflect the average of 3 runs and all cars are the 2007 vintage.

Mercedes S550 5.6, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.1 (Benz show 5.4 in their specs)
BMW 750iL 5.7, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.2
Jag XJ Super 6.0 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.5
Lexus LS460L 6.2 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.6
Audi A8 6.8 0 - 60 quarter mile 15.2

Note that Lexus, as usual, is more than the 5.4 the manufacturer CLAIMS to get by .8 seconds.

Also note the LS430 (prior model the LS460 replaced) was rated at 295 HP and was actually 278 when Lexus corrected their rating. And there were no refunds or apologies from the so-called "quality" car company. ABC - Always Be Careful what you buy from the (REPREHENSIBLE) Toyota/Lexus people.....

They understate their times by .5? I think it's the other way around.