Toyota exec admits Lexus is struggling in Germany, reveals details of new Celica

What?? A Euro only Celica? I loved the old Celicas.... from early 90's, wish they would do a really neat AWD one again for all markets.

The Celica was abandoned in favor of the SCION tC...

Note: Bad Move!

Germans know a fake when they see one. Too bad Americans aren't that Saavy

What did Lexus expect to take Germany by storm? For a auto maker to hit it big world wide in the 21st century they really have to create a revolution in the industry a total break thru in design,fuel mpg and create such a buzz that it can't be ignored.
Self parking cars and lane changes warnings are not going to get anybody so excited they need to trade in their car.
The Germans already make cars that people want why would they trade in a BMW or MBZ for a Lexus unless the Lexus was so far advance for the furure you would have to do it, i don't see any automaker willing to step up and take the next step, it is play it safe and keep giving the world copy cat cars?

to a degree you have a point. The German consumer wants proof you are better by actions (inventions, racing success etc.).

Americans tend to accept advertising claims as fact.

good point...

I hope Lexus was not hoping to knock off BMW, MB or Audi in their #1 market, which just happens to be their home market...

Its definitely a tough assignment that I do not think Lexus will succeed, just because its the Big 3's turf.

I think global success for Lexus will be in China. If I were them, I would start building Lexus in China and try to wrestle that market from Audi.

thierry:

lexus hasn't 'knocked off' the german makers anywhere in europe or even in japan (lexus home market).

um... you must have not read my comment... I said:

"I hope they WERE NOT HOPING TO knock off the germans."

This statement just means, in terms that perhaps you will understand:

"I hope lexus was not EXPECTING to outsell the germans or set their goals too high in the germans' own market"

i misunderstood.

More sports offerings from Toyota is a necessity. The whole market is moving towards sportier models and Toyota is sitting at really bad looking redesigns of its popular cars and dropping all the sport models from its line up. As a person who liked many of Toyota's cars I can say that the current line up is very weak in the car department. Toyota's SUV department is fine, but the cars are boring and bad looking. Toyota needs to bring back the sportier models, and a more aggressive Toyota Celica than the last one. Toyota also needs to bring more aggressive engines that display a sporty driving style, a la VTEC. The sound needs to be there as it was in the previous models. Also they should bring the Celica back to the US, but don't bring it here unless it can really play with the GTI, Civic Si, Mazdaspeed 3, and the WRX. I am losing interest in Toyota daily as their model lineup is continually uninteresting. Today my favorite Toyota's are all from the 80's and 90's.

How will the Toyota Celica raise the brand awareness of Lexus? Someone please explain that me.

Lexus has always struggled in Germany and Europe per se. I think the only European nation that has somewhat reacted "interested" in Lexus products is the United Kingdom. But still, Lexus simply doesn't offer the European consumer what they want: variety.

Lexus cars come in such few shapes. Where's the IS/GS wagon for example? Where's the SLK/Z4/TT competitor? Where are the efficient gasoline and diesel engines (don't mention hybrids, they're not effective in Europe). Furthermore Lexus have become very pricey in Europe - and for what?

Fact is, the European market will generally prefer European products first, foreign later, especially in regards to cars. The history of BMW and Mercedes and Audi etc. is well documented and known by most Europeans. Along comes Lexus, out of the blue, with no heritage or motorsport participation. Lexus, a brand that never had to struggle because they had cash daddy Toyota to back them. What's there to appreciate about this brand? That's the questions Europeans ask themselves. Quality and reliability? You get that with European cars to. And at the end of the day the European products offer a variety oif choices: a variety of trim levels, engines, body styles, packages etc. Lexus? Can't compete here.

It doesn't surprise me that they're a flop in Europe.

Honestly Lexus' line-up is thinner than Cadillac's in Europe...which is a very strange turn of events. We only get the:
IS
GS
LS
RX
SC
with a total of 1 diesel, 3 hybrids, and no 4 cylinders, no estates and no diesel off-roader (stupid move) they are severely lacking in products.
We don't get the IS/GS350, so no real sporty IS, we still get the crappy 430 and 300 engines in the GS...they just can't be bothered - but who can blame them when sales are this low?

Plus if anybody claims they have been even moderately successful in the UK they're wrong. Sales trail far, far behind the Germans.

I think when Infiniti enters Western Europe next year, that they will have a leg up on Lexus, just for the fact they can learn from all of Lexus's mistakes without repeating them. Not to mention Infiniti will have diesel engines almost from inception there. Not that their sales will over throw the big three, but add more competition to the market

lexus doesn't sell in germany (and continental europe in general) for the same reasons cadillac never sold well.

they make large, softly sprung cars with poor handling and benign exterior design.

Spot on!

Your beliving your own bulls**t.If the wanted it they could take it.It would take more time than the total domination in the U.S. and they would have to strip down their models(cloth interiors) put small 4cyl engines with turbo's,gas is high there.They would also need more dealers(infrastructure).Toyota would only do it if their's good profit to be made.

Does BMW sell well in Japan? I'd be curious to find out.

they sell very well despite the HUGE import taxes on german cars in japan. even at much higher prices both bmw and mercedes far outsell lexus in japan.

considering the german lux brands have been on sale in japan for DECADES longer, that's only to be expected. aside from only recently being offered, lexus had the handicap of competing against the mothership itself, TOYOTA. which actually has a model even MORE prestigious than the LS, the toyota Century v12.

but lexus is now coming up fast.

lexus is doing poorly in japan despite lexus/toyota having reputation that goes back many decades.

and as mentioned, the germans compete at a radically higher price point and STILL far outsell the much less expensive lexus models.

lexus WAS doing poorly in japan, before introduction of the new LS.

the HUGE gains since, have largely come at the expense of the now inferior german models it competes against.

Boy this is just relentless today. I just dont get the bashing on this site anymore. Negative articles are sought out with a vengeance. Any positive attributes in the articles are given short shrift in the Autospies summary. Posters are rabid in their hatred, spewing lies and venom. Baseless claims are not supported by facts. Subjectivity replaces logic. Any thoughtful analysis is lost in the midst of it all. I just dont understand you people. Every day I vow to just read the articles, not the posts (not even the summaries). When will I learn?

This article has good news, and a not so surprising idea that a non-German luxury car does not sell as well in Germany as the non-German brand hoped it would, even though it has only been available for a few years. And yet it turns into the same drivel a all the rest. Will, you out there??? Have u given up??? Little help here...... Whatever. Peace out.

1970, why do you even bother? This site has gone from a vibrant and engaging treasure, to what is widely recognised as a cesspool and a joke. There are much better places than this (although this wasn't always the case).

Cheers- Mitch

Mitch, I just moved to SF, when Lexus comes out with a hybrid in the 30-35K price range, I'll come a knockin.

That will be great! See you then.

"1970, why do you even bother? This site has gone from a vibrant and engaging treasure, to what is widely recognised as a cesspool and a joke. There are much better places than this (although this wasn't always the case)."

I agree... on other sites that I am a member on (only a handful), it still gives me a clear view of what they think of AutoSpies. It is notorious. Infamous. Whatever.

A 6 cylinder diesel is all they need really...GS, IS RX and LS would all benefit from that.

"if Lexus made a LS and GS diesels europe would be full of them"

I disagree, because 5/7 Series diesels, A6/A8 diesels and E-/S-Class diesels are already available. Lexus would still only be an "also-ran;" they really need to do something different--and effective (not hybrids)--to stand out from the pack.

They have the IS220d over here in Europe now but their competitors diesels are still vastly outselling them.

the disadvantage lexus has, is that in europe many buy the fancy, impressive, upper line models, but with the stingy smaller gas and diesel powertrains. people there seem big on making a big IMPRESSION.

the only diesel lexus is on the smallest lexus. they apparently think, diesels are mainly bought by the TRULY thrifty, rather than poseurs.

LEMME MODIFY that. "poseurs" was an overstatement. i actually personally DO prefer fuel efficiency myself, regardless of the size/class of vehicle.

but you get the idea i proffered.

Lexus will take slowly but surely place in germany.

German cars Suck!

How constructive...

34 in your nickname, means you are 34 years of age ?!!!

34, your a fool.

even GERMAN surveys have showed japanese car owners tend to have higher satisfaction rates than german car owners.

may be largely a matter of expectations. (higher pre-purchase for german brands; not so high for anything non-german)

yet STILL a result of OWNER HAPPINESS at what they actually experience.

lexus needs to learn from mercedes... come on now be a good boy & look & learn from mercedes

mercedes needs to learn from lexus how to source RELIABLE electonics and power eqpt. and how to ASSEMBLE cars with perfection.

until then, lexus will slowly but surely gain market share, as more europeans (like smarter americans) begin to RECOGNIZE the differences.

A back-on-track MR2 would be good - always had the impression that the last gen Celica looked more like a successor to gen 1 + 2 MR2's than the roadster they launched. Shame latest Celica was only FWD and front engine, so talk of Toyota re-entering the sports markets is promising. IMHO Celica shoudl top out with 4WD rally esque position, and MR2 should be a dedicated sports coupe to give affordable MR layout.

Let's face it, Lexus probably makes the most reliable cars in the world. However, when I tested their IS250, IS350 and ES350 models prior to buying a 3 Series BMW, I couldn't help feeling that their cars are remarkably boring to drive. I couldn't remember anything distinctive about the Lexus' (Lexii?) ride, handling or anything else. Boring, boring, boring.

As I said to my wife, "I'll buy one when I'm 80".