Video: E92 M3 vs. RS4

Nice?

the m3 is really the ultimate driving machine. the m3 is more about power, not so much luxury. the s4 is more about making the ride comfy.
audi better step up if they want to grab some real power

Well Car & Driver, this is the natural progression of things, in comparrison the RS4 not S4 is two model years older than this new M3 and the RS4 killed the previous M3. It wouldn't make much sense for BMW to bring out a car that can't beat the car that beat it's predecessor. The next Audi will eat this M3 for lunch and then it will be BMW's turn again.

Great link -thanks for posting it .
In my opinion the M3 is the BMW to own for those who want daily driving coupe with some passenger space and track ability .
The RS4 certainly deserves regognition as well.

"Even in the text overlaying the video, they say that the M3's tires were spinning, probably due to them being cold. Under such circumstances, i.e., when traction is compromised for any reason, AWD will be an advantage, but to attribute the difference to AWD vs. rear-wheel drive, is to imply, erroneously, that the RS4 would have had that advantage even if the M3's tires were not cold."

I disagree. RWD vehicles spin under just about any circumstances when accompanied by a lead foot. AWD vehicles will always or usually have an advantage from a dead start.

I smell BS... on the rolling start, that RS4 engine is barely audible and you can't hear the rev limiter....that is all propanganda, I am sure the M3 is a great straight line performer, that being said I have driven the RS4 many times, and beleive me when you push the car really hard you get to that 8250 rpm really fast. That guy was not pushing that car at all.
Like I said I can smell the BS...

And all of you BMW fanbois go ahead deboost me out of your anger, that does not change facts.

And RS4 built on a 6 years old platform is still a better overall, better finish, better built, safer car than a brand new BMW M3. That does not make the M3 a bad car by any mean, it is just not as good.

I want both.

I think that one must make a decision on what aspect of this segment one would want more...

M3-Raw agility, performance/superb handling, trademark BMW feel.
RS4-Refined Luxury, daily driver, more of a "chic" car for the those wanting to drive an "it" car.
C63-Brute power, to go with the intimidating looks.
ISF-Daring to go for the new kid on the block.

"RS4-Refined Luxury, daily driver, more of a "chic" car for the those wanting to drive an "it" car."

??? What ???

I completely disagree. The RS4 was BMW's benchmark for the new M3. It's not about image--the car is flat-out amazing to drive. It is a daily driver... AND an excellent track car. Which has also been the M3 for as long as it's been in production.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that any of those 4 cars do not have any of the characteristics mentioned, its just that some are more geared towards the characteristics than others. I think that all the cars in that segment are great. I personally would go for the M3 coupe, until the RS5 comes out, if I were to get something in that class.

chic, pronounce "Cheek", not Chick, just to get it straight.

Yes, I know what "chic" means, LOL.

Although I still disagree. If there's one car that people shopping in this class buy for its "image..." it's the M3. The RS4 is virtually unknown outside of the enthusiast community, but every middle-aged guy and his trophy wife have an M3 (if they don't want a 911).

Good point about the trophy wife. I just think that Audi is the fad car right now... could be my area...

The Audi is the car du jour in my area - I'm seeing everyone from middle aged men and women with children in it to younger couples...somehow the RS4 still looks cool even when being turned around in the road...and the noise!! I love it.

RS4= FAST VW JETTA
BMW M3= LEGEND,

LARRY=DIPS&^*

RS4 is by no means a fast jetta. The M3 is a legend. For the record, the RS4 is part of the reason the E92 M3 exists in its current form.

Audi pushed BMW to drop in a V8 and up the ante on performance because the RS4 out-gunned the E46 M3 (I know first hand - I have an E46 M3). Audi even forced BWM to bring out the 4-door M3.. And it has worked out for all of us fans!

Wow I'm surprised the M3 pulled so far away from the RS4, like the owner of the Audi said, "I was thinking it was going to be a lot more even."

As far as the traction thing goes, S4's right, you will spin out in any condition with a RWD car. I can spin the wheels in 3rd gear with my car, & it has 50-60 less hp than the M3, though it does have a hell of a lot more torque.

Though I do have to say the conditions in the video look a little wet & cold, which would definitely put the M3 at a disadvantage while barely fazing the RS4.

both cars are amazing. I would love to have either of these cars. It doesn't matter which is faster off the straight line or what not, because the odds of using that straight-line acceleration against someone in a similar car is probably not too great.

Both cars are superb and while I have not seen any "comprehensive" independent tests, my best guess is that the BMW will win a drag race, and that should not really surprise anyone. Its has almost the same HP (down very slightly) as the RS4, but its estimated to be 300lbs lighter.. That said, this was clearly a BMW event not an independent test. The video itself is titled BMW M3 and note that the cars on the track were BMWs. Use 1/2 throttle shift way below the redline..etc. etc.. I'd like to see the BMW M3 win a race at an RS4 event. Ha ha.. We know how these things tend to shake out. Ha ha. Seriously though it shouldn't surprise anyone if the M3 won a straight drag race as the "largest" differenciating factor in drag races tends to be power/weight ratio. I would love to see an independent and "real" handling test including lap times on a track. It always great to see the many factors that affect overall performance in play.. If you recall, the old S4 (not RS4) beat the old M3 on the track even though the lighter M3 was a car length ahead in a drag race.. See below..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzGBSvyuUwg

Also, remember the M5 (500hp) vs S6 (no new RS6 yet)..M5 was faster in a straight line, but the S6's better handling and braking killed the M5 in corners leading to a faster lap time on a shorter track. As expected, the M5 was half a car length ahead on a longer track... Interestingly the most powerful car ..(Benz C63AMG 517hp) came last on both tracks..
The animation for the longer track is very revealing..
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/virtual/112_0702_luxury_sports_sedan_comparison_vrt/

I love the rawness and tail happiness of the M3, but at the same love the clean looks, refinement and year round all weather handling package in the RS4.. Anyone who gets either car can't loose..

hey, is that C63AMG packing 517? Isn't it 473 or something like that?

He meant the E63 AMG. It was a typo.

The C63 has 453hp.

Theses races are legit, Iv been following GT board and M5board for a couple years now. I even own a couple of the DVDs. When the M5 and M6 came out that had the same airfield drag races, and half the time the M5 lost to cars like 911 turbos's, F430s, z06, and othrer cars, but the M5 beat the gallardo and various mercs. Anyway these vidoes are not biased in anyway, these videos are for people who want to see how there favorite cars measure up to eachother. There would be absolutlly no point in false outcomes. The M3 was the faster car in the stringht line, accept it.

Agreed...

Theres nothing wrong with the tests. I do not know why some people fight it so hard.

I think both cars are awesome. I think the M3 sedan should race the RS4 and the M3 coupe should race the S5. That would be a nice camparo.

M3 coupe is the RS5 competitor.

Because of the AWD having a slight edge on take offs, I am getting a 335xi and chipping it. Then I can make my own bodykit up, from various vendors, and still save some money. I will end up spending around $55,000.
on a side note, when BMW comes out with their new DSG, it will shift faster than a manual and then the car will pull ahead faster, probably lowering the 0-60 by .2 seconds

You do know why BMW is putting DSG in their cars, don't you?


...yes, Audi.

S4cabriofoxone,

That was nice of you not to mention SMG kinda sucks for a street car.

the m3 isnt going to have DSG. its going to have M DCT. it is derived from SMG not DSG

Nice!!! Would be interesting to race the E90 M3 with the RS4... It will be extremely close!

Larry = a person who can't accept the fact that Audi is leapfrogging BMW constantly.

Look at the RS4 and how it gave the BMW M3 such a battle.

Look at the Audi R8 how it is smashing Porsche's iconic 911 with its killer looks, performance and easy driveability.

For those of you who think the M3 coupe will compete with the upcoming Audi RS5.... think again.

The RS5 is going to have at least 50 more horsepower than the BMW, not to mention it will be much lighter than the RS4 and it will also have the 40/60 rear biased Quattro split.

The BMW M3 is not going to stand a chance to the RS5.

GermanNut = a guy who can't understand that in order for Audi to leapfrog BMW, BMW had to have leapfrogged Audi previously.

It's called a "cycle", both sides have been leapfrogging each other for years. That's how it works. Step down off your soapbox.

That's what people said about the RS4 against the new M3, & the M3 didn't eclipse the RS4 as much as everyone thought. I don't believe for a second that the new RS4 or RS5 is going to be a significant improvement over the current one, it’s already too good.

I also doubt the new RS4 will be lighter than the old one when it's going to be bigger with more power under the hood.

"The RS5 is going to have at least 50 more horsepower than the BMW, not to mention it will be much lighter than the RS4 and it will also have the 40/60 rear biased Quattro split."

The RS4 has almost 90 more horsepower than the E46 M3... and yet, in one or two comparison tests, the E46 still won. The RS4 won in the bulk of them, but it was a smaller gap than you'd think. Horsepower isn't everything. Like MunichRob said, they're already too good to be a significant improvement over the last gen, or the competition. And that goes for both Audi and BMW.

BTW, MunichRob, we're talking about the RS5, and not the new RS4. The RS5, being a coupe, will weigh less. It will probably weigh about the same as the E92 M3, or 100lbs more at most. This will be offset by its 450-500hp engine... and I'm hoping for a DSG transmission to be available alongside the manual.

Like I said, I still want both. Although I probably can't get a new RS4 any more, if I discount the bright orange Audi Exclusive model I saw at my dealership. LOL, it was hot, but not my kind of color. So it might have to be an S5 or S6 and an M3 convertible. That would be nice...

Yeah I thought he was talking about the RS4, I went back through it & realized he was talking the RS5.

To those that said this is staged, this event is completely legit, they have high performance makes of all types of cars, last year, a yellow Z06 won ~80% of the races, I won't even mention what it did to every BMW that day, yeah, they are really biased. Back on topic, that was a real spanking, while helpful for a powerful launch, the weight of AWD becomes a liability as speed increases, then HP and gearing are all that matter.


Stone

MunichRob, why don't you think the B8 RS4 is going to be a significant improvement over the current B7 RS4.

Yes, the curent RS4 is a very good car that is capable of doing things previous RS Audis couldnt't do.

You must not be reading the new 2009 B8 A4 reviews MunichRob, because if you were you would realize the new B8 A4 is a huge improvement in every area over the current A4. The car is bigger both inside and out. The legroom is now more than adequate, the interior is a virtual copy of the A6 and most importantly the handling and dynamics of the car are so improved that every single review of the new car has lauded the huge improvement in handling. AUdi's Drive Select System is doing wonders for the A4.

If Audi can take a more nose heavy, smaller, not as well balanced, no 40-60 rear Quattro split regular B7 Audi A4 and turn it into the monster RS4....do you really think Audi will not be capable of taking a larger, less nose heavy, better balanced and nimbler feeling B8 A4 and turn into another brilliant RS4.


MunichRob, the B8 Audi RS4 will be a mssive improvement over the current model It will be so good that it will dethrone the M3 in Car and Driver's comparison.

Why do you have to say it will beat the M3? Can't you just say the new RS4 will be a massive improvement over the current model... and leave it at that?

GermanNut, I have seen good reviews on the new A4 I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying there's only so far technology can take the car, & not to mention that yes, the next RS4 will be bigger & heavier than the current RS4, physics do take their toll.

Again I never said the RS4 wouldn't be better than the M3 or anything, but I'll believe it when I see it, especially after the M3 didn't live up to it's own hype.

"...not to mention that yes, the next RS4 will be bigger & heavier than the current RS4, physics do take their toll. "

I agree with the rest of your post, but pleasantly, the B8 A4 weighs a few hundred pounds LESS than the B7, even though it's five inches longer.

"...especially after the M3 didn't live up to it's own hype."

Eh, I disagree. The M3 is and always has been an ultimate driving machine. With every generation, the mags say it has lost some of its sharpness, and everyone moans, but then it's the apple of their eye by the end of its life cycle again. Believe me, they'll come back around.

Like I said, the M3 has the better engine.

You know I also believe the current M3 will be the "apple" of everyone’s eye once again, but let's face it, the new M3 didn't surpass it's competitors like it's done in the past.

BTW I realize the B8 platform is lighter, but Audi's is likely to include more updated technology in the newer model, & gadgets add weight. I'm just assuming that is we don't yet know the actual weight of the new A4.

"You know I also believe the current M3 will be the "apple" of everyone’s eye once again, but let's face it, the new M3 didn't surpass it's competitors like it's done in the past."

Now THIS is true. Audi, Merc and even Lexus have finally woken up. All of their performance compacts are now real competition for the M3. But that doesn't detract from the M3's excellence when taken by itself. I also think it's the best-looking of the bunch, in two-door form; I'd rather have an RS4 than an M3 sedan, though.

"BTW I realize the B8 platform is lighter, but Audi's is likely to include more updated technology in the newer model, & gadgets add weight."

Considering how the B8 A4 has all the "gadgets" of the new platform incorporated in it already, I don't see how this could possibly be true for the new RS4. If the normal A4 sedan is lighter, all of them (A4/S4/RS4 in every variant) will be lighter across the line.

The Brits already do know the weight of the new A4. The standard model, according to a kg-to-lbs calculator, weighs in at 3,102 pounds. I'm guessing that's the 1.8T CVT they have there... add 200-300lbs for the larger engine, and you have the A4 3.2. The current 3.2 weighs in at a bit under 3,600lbs, so this is a significant improvement.

I think that the M3's biggest competition comes from within the family. A 335xi with an aftermarket ECU upgrade gives you AWD with copious low end grunt. It's not as track-worthy as the M3 or RS4, but for civilian streets, the power is more usable.

Not trying to start a fight, and I am a "BMW guy", but is this not basically what happened? RS4 WINS where it counts most, yes, even in Germany, and the M3 barely wins where it counts the least, especially in U.S.? No? THen what?

Yes, they both win. Better for everyone.

Here fastone, I'll just quote you to answer your question. Not being sarcastic, I just think you already answered it.

"Gearing and less weight, probably had a lot to do with the M3's top end advantage.

Both cars are just awesome and to think the RS4 has been out for years."

That last sentence is ever so important as well.

I know you were'nt fast one. I was just trying to clarify myself as not coming off that way, because I was'nt.

Am I the only one who noticed that we were comparing a coupe to a sedan, HP to weight ratio might come into play here, just a little. I'll wait to pass judgment on who's the best when I can compare these car's on a level playing field. Sedan vs Sedan, or convertible vs convertible, and what a glorious day that will be.

BTW, the M3 broke the 8 minute barrier on the Nurburgring clocking 7:58, that's about 30 seconds faster the E46 M3 & not mention, official supercar numbers people.

The Audi RS4 has also broken the 8 minute barrier.

The RS4 has also clocked an identical 7:58 time around the ring.

Two amazing cars.

Best time I've seen for the RS4 is 8:14.

Alright after searching around for a bit the best time I found was 8:09 for the RS4. I got 8:14 from Wikipedia & 8:09 from an article posted on autospies a year ago.

Very strange that the RS4 posted a better time @ 7:58 than the R8 @ 8:04.

The M3 is an amazing car, and its weight difference almost makes up for the RS4's off the line performance. The fact is with equal gearing the RS4 has a little bit more hp. But it has a better powerband than the M3.

That being said, I am going to enjoy blowing the new M3 completely off the road, as well as the GTR and the RS4. It still is amazing how fast cars are getting!

who me?

That's easy.. any half running motorcycle should do
the job...

I have a Corvette

it cracks me up to see you guys put down one or the other of these awesome cars. MOst of you have never driven one or the other. The new RS5 will have the completely new drive train with the engine mounted further behind the front axle ala the a5 s5 and being a coupe with lighter body even with the same TDI power plant in the rs4 should be a better handling, faster beast. It looks better too. as for the rs4 beating the r8 around the ring...................not if you put the same good driver in each car...........not possible.