Is BMW making a mistake pricing the 1-series so close to the 3?

no...different cars for different people.

lots of manufacturers have multiple cars in a price category: CLS/E class, ES/IS, S4/A5, etc.

thats a good point - other car manufacturers do it too, i just never really noticied, but id have to agree that the 1 series can get pretty pricey for just being the "base" model bmw.

It is a nice car though, if only i had the money

Many others manufacturers do offer similar vehicles but, the gap in driving feel/performance is wider than that of 135i and 335i.

I'd take the 335i any day of the week.

^^^Correction to the above! I'd take the *135i* any day of the week.

I think BMW is shooting themselves in the foot.

how about instead of comparing it to BMW's 335i sedan you look at it for what it's intended to be? What you have there is a car that's within $2k of a comparable G37 coupe, which is simiarly sized inside. That $2k buys you a vehicle that would run rings around the G and include maintenance for 4 yrs, meaning the costs are (at worst) the same for both despite the higher performance of te 135i. That is a lot more palatable than the $8k difference between the G37 and the 335i Coupe (which is bigger and nicer than both). Since price was pretty much the only reason the 335 ever lost a comparison to the G, I think you get a much clearer understanding of what this car is and why it's priced the way it is. BMW was never going to make it cheaper than the G. All they wanted was for it to be close. And now it is.

What's that to do w/ G37? You just have to be patient w/ these INIFINITI-phobia.

Mind you, G37 is bigger than 6 series in terms of passenger volume, so why don't you compare G37 to 6 series? Hell, You can even save the change for a 135.

1 series was created for AUDI A3. That's it. Start w/ A3 3.2 of 34,915 MSRP first.

qweasdzxc, you think a G37 was designed to compete with a 6-Series? No, they're in different price classes. So are the G37 and 335i Coupe, which incidentally ALSO has a larger interior than the 6-Series (and also larger than the G37). The 335i Coupe has been compared to the G37 Coupe for one reason -- they were both entry level, and because Infiniti was gunning for BMW with the G. Notice BMW isn't bringing over a 1-Series sedan? Only a coupe/convertible? That's because a 1-Series sedan would be small, the G35 sedan is not, so there's no natural competition. But with a coupe? Ah, there's room to compete there. The 1-Series Coupe is designed to give BMW an entry level coupe that outperforms the G37 at a similar cost (or lower cost if you get a 128i Coupe). Period. The 335i Coupe (and 335i Sedan, for that matter) outperform the Infiniti's in every measurable way, but have lost a couple of comparison tests because they were more expensive. Nicer, more comfortable, and better performing, but more expensive. Enter the 135i Coupe. And now when clients come in to BMW dealers saying they're cross shopping the G37 the dealers can show them an entry level car with similar passenger space, similar trunk space, better performance, and similar cost instead of showing them a more upscale, larger, more comfortable, higher performing but also more expensive 335i Coupe.

"Mind you, G37 is bigger than 6 series in terms of passenger volume, so why don't you compare G37 to 6 series? Hell, You can even save the change for a 135.

1 series was created for AUDI A3. That's it. Start w/ A3 3.2 of 34,915 MSRP first"

1. The A3 is a five-door hatch! THIS IS A 2-DOOR COUPE! You could compare the 1 Series HATCH to the A3, but that's not here now, is it?

2. The 3 Series coupe also has more passenger volume than the 6 Series! The 6er's rear seat is nearly useless, like the G37's, but the E92's is quite useful.

Do you understand this word, "sarcastic"?

I was using G37 and 6 series as examples because in your argument "size" naturally defines competition. (This I rather agree) However you then shift the criteria to engine output and weaken your argument by suggesting people will cross shopping between G37 & 135.

Well, what is what?

qweasdzxc what are you talking about? I never said anything about engine output, I said the 135i and G37 are similarly priced and similarly sized, hence they are competitors in a way the more expensive, larger, and more upscale 335i never was.

Let's see, so we have two similarly sized, similarly priced, rear wheel drive "near luxury" coupes? Yeah, you're right, no one would ever cross shop those. What was I thinking?

JRobUSC what are you talking about? G37 is 183.1" L, 335 is 181.1" L, while 135 is only 171.7" L, smaller than Civic Coupe. So why should G37 competes w/ 135 while skipping 335? Based on your logic BMW won't be able to sell 650i at all due to its smaller passenger space and inferior performance than 335i.

I guess there's a reason people went to USC instead of Berkley. What was I thinking?

That is correct but for such a small price difference to get so much more car, the sedan value is pretty compelling.

001

Because In The real World...

The vast majority of BMW driver/owners (in America at least) don't really know or care about the performance potential of their vehicles, they just want to know that it's an expensive luxury vehicle, drives pleasantly and impressive the neighbors/co-workers.

I'm on my 7th BMW, have spent countless hours at various dealerships and when speaking with other owners (getting their vehicles serviced), I'd say that a large percentage care very little about performance numbers or vehicle dynamics.

Poseurs to the BMW enthusiasts, but the fact is - this is the typical BMW driver/owner today.

another good point.

the comparison should be 335i coupe to 135i coupe.

or even better enthusiast, it should be G37 Coupe to 135i Coupe.

For some, only the blue/white roundel, and the image that accompanies it, will do.

Me, I buy what suits my individual needs and the needs of my family... Regardless of maker.

G37- 3,668lbs (G37 Sport MT, which is the 135i's closest counterpart)

I don't know how they did it, but Infiniti managed to make the G37 heavier than the AWD, V8-powered Audi S5 (3,593lbs). The S5 is only a half-inch shorter, so that wouldn't be the reason.

Yahoo Auto shows S5 Curb Weight MT to be 3891 lb w/ Curb Weight AT to be 4067 lb. It also shows G37 Curb Weight MT to be 3668lb.

That sounds more right.

Who pays MSRP for a car these days??? LOL! I have never paid MSRP for any of my BMWs. The hype of the 1 series will die down after the first year and easier to make deals. If you really have to nitpick over a 4-5K price difference, then maybe a BMW is not for you?

bimmerfan, just because a customer cares about price doesn't suggest they can't afford a bmw, it might just mean, they don't just throw their money away to have a propeller on the hood of their car. I don't know maybe that's the kind of stuff that keeps one from going broke.

BMW priced this car quite well for THEIR interests . The new car buyer may not worry as much about the price difference in favor of finding the car which suits his needs . Those more interested in space and comfort may opt for the 3 and the performance conscious might choose the lighter, sportier 1 .

The largest financial impact I feel would go to the used car market .The person who has two year old 335i might have to compete when selling the car with new 135i pricing .

of course, but that's kind of a pointless argument -- that's just common sense. Cars lose value, so yeah, prices of used higher models can overlap prices of new lower models. That's a pretty big reason people buy used cars. That's not exactly a BMW exclusive occurrence.

JRobUSC

Is this a conclusion or simply the place where you got tired of thinking?

The "overlap" just so happens to be on a car with the same exact ENGINE but "common sense" apparently has its limits in your case or you would have gotten the point .

ok, then how about this since you seem to not be ablt to apply the common sense I was assuming you had. You said someone wanting to sell a used 335i Coupe is going to be up against the price of a new 135i Coupe. I said "big deal, that's how it works, used higher models are always going up against new lower models in price and it's not just BMW." So to spell this out in no uncertain terms for you, let's say someone buys a new Honda Accord. Then two or three years later they want to sell it. They're going to be priced right up against brand new, but lower model, Honda Civics. Some people will just buy the new Civic. Other people will buy the used Accord even though it's priced the same. Guess what? That works with every brand of car, thus proving my point.

Are you getting that now or do I need to put out some more common sense examples? Let me know, I have all day.

JRobUSC
I am glad that you have "all day" to do nothing except fail at grasping the concept yet for my own amusement I'll try and start at the most remedial level.

1) Look at the title of the thread -- Apparently Agent 001 poses the question regarding the pricing being so close of these vehicles and states that the marginal price disparity would place him in the 3 .

2) I don't care if you would choose the 1 or the 3 --it's irrelovant to my original reply . It does not matter if person A likes performance or person B likes comfort .
My reply was speculative regarding the volume and impact of sales due to the price gap.

3) My reply discusses that I speculate that the new car buyer will not face the same imact as the more price conscious used shopper. The new 1 series is new competition to the BMW arena which changes the sales dynamics .

4) Your Honda example is a straw man argument .

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

It's distorted reasoning in that a Civic has never been introduced with an identical engine to a top tier Accord (V6) , plus the sales demographic of Hondas priced in that range differs from those in the higher priced BMW's . Thus drawing your conclusion on a false premise not only is irrational but is also an invalid argument .

fine, since apparently your main requirement is they have the same engine (and by the way you're an idiot, BMW has had the same engines across multiple lines for generations), how about this:

someone buys a new Toyota Avalon, or an Infiniti M35, or a BMW 528/535 sedan and then two years later wants to sell it. Guess what is priced the same as their used car? Brand new Camrys, G35 sedans, and 328/335 sedans. So again, the customer has a choice, new lower model car, or used higher model car.

Again, since you seem to not understand how the car business works, THIS HAPPENS EVERY DAY. It also happens across brands as people switch from Honda to Toyota to Lexus to BMW to whatever. It doesn't change the sales dynamic one bit, it's the same thing buyers and sellers have been doing since cars started being sold.

it is a little over priced to some... but they don't realize what they are really getting.

As successful as BMW is being the most popular luxury car in the world they make very few mistakes, but with the Euro exchange rate unfavorablefor BMW $41,000 is high, I would prefer to buy the (258 bhp) Cadillac CTS DI for 34K.

The CTS and 135i are SO different. They can't be compared. Even the 1 and 3 comparisons are pushing it. If you are truly a performance guy, you'd choose the 135i... but I guess you're not.

It just proves that this car is NOT about entry-level pricing, its about a different style of car. The 135 will be more of an enthusiast's choice as it gives up space and most likely, the quieter more refined ride I expect the 335 to have, for pure performance.

uhh isn't that what the M3 is for...

the 1-series is the entry-level BMW vehicle for the US. it cut corners in manufacturing, hence the comparo of it not being as "drivable" as the GTI or TT, so it can be priced lower than the 3-series.

many are making it out to be what it isn't.

the 1-series is most definitely BMW's entry level vehicle. DEAL WITH IT!

The M3 is very expensive, this discussing was regarding how close the 1 series is in price. Personally, I think its over priced. You can get more for your money at 35k.

r15:

"uhh isn't that what the M3 is for..."

for the $75,000 buyer, yes. and the 135i is for the $40,000 buyer. why is this hard for you to understand?

i completely understand that, but it was mentioned for the driving experience...BMW has aa full live for "driving experience" it's the M-line.

the 135, as tested, is a great car when driven straight. but when the twisties come into play, it doesnt stand to less powerful/more agile and some elss expensive vehicles (GTI)

stating the facts enthusiast...the comparo's are their for you to indulge

"I completely understand that, but it was mentioned for the driving experience...BMW has aa full live for "driving experience" it's the M-line."

NO, this is for people who can't afford M cars. They want a performance-oriented BMW without having to pay $50K (M Coupé), base, for it.

The GTI is an awesome little hatch... but you are foolish to compare it (a FWD, four-cylinder $20K pocket rocket) to the RWD, $35K, 300hp BMW coupe. Is it not obvious that a small, RWD, powerful coupe would handle well? Are you saying all the reviews are fabricated?

I think everyone is forgetting that the majority of car buyers are not auto enthusiasts. A .2 sec 0-60 time is not valued as highely by the general population. In my opinion the price will not be justifiable by many for an entry level BMW. Small numbers aside, a 3 Series is more car for the money.

If numbers aren't important to them, why don't they just buy a 128i? That starts at <30k

correct. performance is not a primary criteria for most people. as since that's what the 1-series is all about, BMW has set sales goals that are a FRACTION of the 125,000+ annual 3-series sales in the US.

I'd get the G37 btw

I too would take the G37, to me it has its own magic feel, not to mention more car for the money.

You'd be surprised... the G37 has a completely useless rear seat. And when you look at the spec sheets, the 135i wins: it weighs nearly 400lbs less, is just about as nice on the inside, costs the same, has the same power... I think the Infiniti looks better, but that's about it. BMW has pulled a fast one.

BS.

I've just tested 335 and G37 and I'm very impressed w/ interior of the latter. The plastics of 335 looks even cheaper than my E46 3. To say 135 is "about as nice" is strictly a lie, or tasteless.

I think the best way to spec out the 1 is to get it with just the necessities- . Afterall when you load up this car - the price skies to 45 k, 3 Series territory! Thanks for the shoutout 001.

Nontheless, this car is going to sell like hotcakes...

Initially... Yes

I don't know why bmw fans think those "luxury" performance cars are worth so much more than the competition. All things considered, they really aren't and that's why the 3 has lost to the G35 at times. Price is one of the most important factors for many buyers. Probably more important than .5 of a second 0-60 times.

arrogance?

pricing is a BUSINESS decision. manufacturers set prices that the market will pay.

if you'd like to talk arrogance, i have a car for you: how about a "hybrid" that gets 14mpg and costs $104,000.

"Price is one of the most important factors for many buyers. Probably more important than .5 of a second 0-60 times."

Yet people still shell out that extra cash for the 3-series. Ya think, maybe its more than just speed??

^ typical lexus ignorance . jk hehe

The closeness in pricing only shows that, at least for the American market, the 1-series was never intended to be a true 'entry-level' BMW offering, or seriously lost its way somewhere.

The 1-Series should be a (somewhat) minimalist compact offering, with solid performance, reasonable (though not excessive) luxury options at a price point no greater than US 30k.

In addition, these marginal differences in performance numbers is important only to the enthusiast market, which is (unquestionably) not a large percentage of current/potential BMW owners...

BMW ownership is more about prestige to most owners in the US, and these individuals typically don't care one iota about slightly faster 0-60 times, of a few feet shorter stopping distances - all they're going to care about is that the 1-Series is Lower on the BMW 'Food Chain' than the 3-Series yet it cost nearly as much, and head straight for the 3-Series.

This pricing structure has caused BMW to stray too far away from producing a true 'Spiritual Successor' to the 2002... Which is what this vehicle should have been.

What A Shame, because once the enthusiast market gets their fill of the 1-Series, the dealer lots will be begging to get rid of these little buggers.

Lucky for us - In about 18 months or so...

and voila...the 128 starts at $28,000. bmwusa.com

The 1 Series is only overpriced if the sales don't materialize.

bingo. if the market clears the small volume of 1-series coming to the US, it's priced perfectly.

built the way 001 did above it's within $2k of the G37 Coupe. Base prices are within $1k of each other. So yes, it is in fact priced similarly. That was the point of the car.

far too expensive compared to what car with similar performance?

by the way, a product is only 'too expensive' if it doesn't sell. there are more than enough buyers to sell-out the small 1-series volume as it's priced.

you did not just compare a VW gti to a 135 coupe? Have you ever owned a BMW? I think it is a great deal. Most of our clients are going to get them fully loaded. I just priced out one for myself to replace my 2006 330xi. With a manual, navigation , heated seats, HD radio, Ipod & power seats it came to just under $41k. Plus I will put the Dinan chip upgrade. 381 hp and 420 lbs of torque for this car is insane. That is alot of car for the money. Find me another car with the fit and finish of a BMW and then tack on the power for under $45k.

most of the 1-series sold in the US will be the 128i, not the 135i

exactly . most will but I am not most. Also, it is alot different to just go on a few test drives, than to own one. There is a huge difference. I have owned 6 of them and currently have a 2006 330xi and a 2008 535i sports package. Once you own one you will realize what magazines have been saying for decades. That BMW sets the standard for performance cars. No other car is known as " The Benchmark "....

There's no way I would pay that much for so little. You'd be better off getting a new R32 or a used M3, if you really want a BMW.

Who ever posted the article is flawed in the comparison. You forgot to add the port installed aero kit of $2,195 ... This makes the difference of $6k between the two. Also, why would anyone buy a G37 vs a 135 coupe for the same money?

cant wait to get mine in the fall.

looks? Well we know it is not performance, handling or braking that would strive you to buy an Infiniti G37. It is not resale value. Looks is in the eye of the beholder. Performance is based on facts. For the same money, there is no way I am getting a G37.

IMHO way too much $$$$ for a vehicle with a General Motors sourced transmission and possibly cooling issues.
I'll take a more reliable G37.

good, since BMW is only bringing 1/12 the number of 1's over as they do 3's then there'll be one more available to someone who understands what the car is. Also, as a bonus when you get your G37 you can enjoy the smell and taste of the 135i's exhaust, since any time you pull up next to one on the street you'll be behind it moments later.

lol .. true Jrob.

Richard, what cooling issues? the early production issues have been corrected. Sorry, so how is the Nissan? Since when you open up the hood and in the engine bay it says nissan.

A 135i is $5k less than the 335i, has the same engine and is quicker. So what is the problem? None.

Put a Vishnu black box on the engine and the competition...oh yeah, there won't be any competition.

Cooling issues? I drove my 335i in 100-degree heat for many hours on the racetrack. Only issues were tire wear and permagrin.

...and I'm sure that it's a coincidence that the minute anyone disagrees with one of your 'rants' all of their previous post seem to de-boost by several points...

I've seen it happen with several forum members who posted opinions different than yours (S4 - I think you may have been looking for this guy?).

Create all of the FAKE ACCOUNTS you want in an effort to substantiate (and falsely BOOST) your inane arguments, but you're still just Keyboard Brave and Insignificant In Real Life.

Sorry...

The above mis-posted, though I stand firmly behind the message therein.

Note: sorry for the inconvenience

Who were you referring to?

you got a video of driving your 335i in such hot weather?

I wonder how many people are going to find it a bit disturbing that the rear end styling of their brand new 40k BMW 135i looks almost identical to the 1991 Hyundai Elantra?

http://imgcar.dcinside.com/review/elantra/36.jpg

Let the De-Boosting Begin, but be sure to take a look at the Elantra pic before you do

(http://imgcar.dcinside.com/review/elantra/36.jpg)

The Truths Is Sometimes Painful... Yes?

I've never posted one negative word concerning the 1-series' performance, but...

YOU HAVE TO BE BLIND to not see a visual similarity between this http://imgcar.dcinside.com/review/elantra/36.jpg

and this http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1085/866608628_cb275b1823.jpg&imgrefurl=http://photocars.blogspot.com/2007/07/bmw-135i.html&h=375&w=500&sz=125&hl=en&start=19&um=1&tbnid=xpNfXoLUIY07lM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBMW%2B135i%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

From a direct rear view, the average person (read non-enthusiast) would probably only be able to distinguish the two by their insignias.

Note: It was an (accurate) observation, and you needn't always post like your opinions are the only ones that matter.

There in lies the issue...

You constantly makes these ASSumptions, and fly off the handle with some snide post/remark.

I NEVER said that I didn't like the styling of the BMW 1-Series, I just shared my observation that IT DOES LOOK uncannily similar to the 1991 Hyundai Elantra.

And It Certainly Does!

End Of Story

Check... MATE!

Create all of the FAKE Accounts you care to in some LAME effort to substantiate your (often) inane arguments...

Not to mention De-Boost any/all of oppose your (often) ignorant fan-ramblings, but it does nothing to diminish the fact that you're little more than Keyboard brave, and (most likely) a loser in Real Life!

You might benefit from looking up the definition of INTEGRITY.

Note: By my observations, S4... Here's your culprit in the De-Boosting Everyone's Post mystery.

fastonekiller actually agrees with me on... just about everything. We have very similar taste. He was not the "culprit." It was probably some fake "I LOVE LEXUSSsssS!" account.

As for the 1... yes, it looks similar to the Elantra in the back. That's hard to deny. But does that make it unattractive? It's no E92, but it will still be a classy little coupe.

Speaking of the E92: no matter how many 3's are sold, the 335i coupe stands out as one of the most beautiful cars on the road. I can't help but stare every time I see one with the 18" five-spokes.

I think the 1 series is overpriced and BMW is getting arrogent. They ARE selling cars! Buy I dont even consider the brand.

this seems to be a bi-product of the decline of the US Dollar against the euro and many other currencies. The current 3-series is priced based on the USD$ at a higher rate, but since then had approx a 15-20% decline. I am sure they have no choice but to price it higher...

i am sure there should be more price hikes in euro/jap cars coming along.

I would take the 335 coupe all day long over a 135. The price is not justified
for this model based on what you get. Sure, the young badge whores will drool over its stop light potential. However, if you go by what people are saying on the BMW message boards, there seem to be a lot of unhappy 128/135 owners based on their experience with this car.

I'm sorry it should be made more clear. The model range has been available in Europe and other global markets since 2004.

david:

the 135i was available in europe as of september 2007. what are you talking about? the 3.0 liter twin turbo is a very new engine.

I am referring to the 1 series as a model.

i think.
you kind of have to compare 1 series coupe to 3 series coupe. because the coupe meant to be more expensive than the coupe.

Huh?

The thing that isn't getting through in this article has to do with the basic American mentality that bigger is better.

Well, listen to this, folks: BIGGER ISN'T ALWAYS BETTER!!! And it may not be in this case!!! You are still able to get "more car" in a 135i than you could out of a 335i, because of its performance potential! Small cars don't have to be cheap, and the 1 proves that point perfectly. It's as premium as you can get.

"This will gut 3 series sales"

you have no idea what the hell you're talking about. what am i not surprised?

the 3-series is a sedan with space, performance and four-door practicality. the 1-series coupe is heavy on performance, tight on rear seat room, and has only two doors. different buyers. did the IS sedan 'gut' ES sedan sales. nope. neither will 1-series 'gut' 3-series.

The 135i represents what BMW once stood for. The rest of BMW's range today, represents what America has forced BMW to become. Today it builds porker SUVs that weigh 5000lbs and totter about San Francisco's streets like hookers on high heels in the Tenderloin. No wonder 001 chose the 335 over the 135. What a poseur. BTW Agent 001- your posts suck.
ATTENTION Agent 009: Clip 001 one over the ear, in passing his desk- will you?

Why would you bash 001 for his choice?

1. The 135i wasn't even out when he got his 335!

2. Maybe he needed the space! His car is the sedan!

3. It's still an awesome sports sedan!

The reason i would choose the 3-series sedan is becuase you get so much more car for only 4k.

Easy decision..unless a big part of my daily life is spent on a track.

Then, I'd go straight for the 1.

001

You get more room in the 3-Series, the suspension is more sophisticated/expensive, the interior quality is better and I think with the sport package, it's a better looking car than the 1. All for just 4k more.

001

Actually, if I was in the market for such vehicles, I would know which one to choose. I like the 3 series styling alot, but I would care about the performance of the 1 series. Anyone shopping for one of those two will either have to sacrific style for performance, or vice versa.

And I would choose the 335i, because obviously, it's still an incredible performance car. You really don't "sacrifice" anything at all, as the weight difference is negligible. Well, actually, you do sacrifice something: $. Yes, the 135i is more focused than the 335i, but the E92 is no heavyweight by any means.

"You'd be surprised... the G37 has a completely useless rear seat. And when you look at the spec sheets, the 135i wins: it weighs nearly 400lbs less, is just about as nice on the inside, costs the same, has the same power... I think the Infiniti looks better, but that's about it. BMW has pulled a fast one."

The rear seat is useless if everyone you carry around is 6ft or taller. I test drove both the 335i and the G. I'm 5'9 and I was able to seat in the back seat pretty well. as for performance, the g37 can move extremely quickly(i was testing the 6speed btw). the only real reason why the 335i/135i wins in the performance part is because of the software upgrade. I've already seen a video on youtube where the G35S beats a 335i in a straight line. But that argument can easily be countered by installing a aftermarket turbo for the G. so performance goes both ways if you think about it. The G definitely gives you more for your money which is why I see more G37/g35s on the street than 335is. I do see some 328is though.

The G37 has 29" of rear leg room. I'm also 5'9", BTW, and sat in the Lexus SC430 which has 27" of rear leg room. I couldn't sit in the SC for more than three seconds because it was so tight. 29" would still be far too small for comfort, unless you have my 5'2" wife as your driver, who drives on top of the steering wheel.

I know the G37 is a great performance coupe. But the 135i will be better. It's simple math: the 135i weighs less, has the same power, and the 335i is already quicker than the G37 by all formal accounts (i.e. NOT a YouTube video, LOL!).

I don't know what you're seeing, because the 3 enjoys twice the sales of the G.

KZ258 ? huh? Lost me on that one in regards to the performance of the G37 to a 335i. Every article on the planet has the G37 anywhere from .5 seconds to .7 seconds slower. I have driven the G37, not just around the block, and although it is nice it is not in the same league as the 335i coupe. I am 6'2" and the G37 is a little cramped and there is no shot of anyone sitting in the back seat. Whereas the 335i coupe has room. G37 compared to the 135 is more favorable in price, but nowhere on the same block in performace. Side note, performance is more than 0 to 60. Handling, breaking, steering feedback, acceleration, passing speeds to name a few.

The 1 Series is just as good as the 3 Series. A lot of people are going to buy these no matter what the price is.

Gotta love how some of these die-hard BMW fans defend the reasoning behind the 1 series vs. 3 series. 001 has got a logical point. Why should the 1 series priced so close to the 3 series and the 3 series is a lot more car than the 1 series whether any of u guys like or not. I really think BMW is shooting themselves in the foot on this one. I mean, if the 1 series is more performance oriented than the 3 series, isn't that why there's a M version? Clearly, I don't really follow why BMW is even coming out with the 1 series. Afterall, its probably all marketing scheme for the BMW lineup, anyway. Lets be realistic comparing the 1 series to the G37 is like comparing the Honda Civic to the Acura TL. Its apples and oranges. I would get the 335i anyday over the 1 series, I mean, its just a much better car. Whats there not to understand that? To all the guys choosing the 1 over the 3...I mean you guys are just going over the top. The 1 is not suppose to be a better car than the 3.

I would no question go for the 3-series are you kidding me? In fact I'd say forget the 1er all together, at this price, I'd hop into a G37 coupe!

Like 001 said you just get so much more car with the 3-series & not to mention that so far, reviews would suggest it's better than the 1er in everyway, even in the performance department. I've read bad things about the 1-series excessive understeer due to skinny front tires & a smaller rear antiroll bar.

Anyway what away to ruin this cars mass market appeal, I was thinking a fully loaded 135i would come in at a little under 40 grand tops. Bad move making it more expensive than the base model on a car that's image is supposed to be slightly more up market.

again, out of touch huu...

"What you don't understand is that 3 series buyers are ppl who want to pay as little as possible for the propellor. Driving is probably on the bottom of their priorities, far below manicures and cellphones."

the 3-series is the purchased BECAUSE of what a pleasure it is to drive. it is at the core of the BMW brand. people buy it because it does EVERTHING well...handling, ride, comfort, tech, luxury, looks.

if it wasn't superior product how would it become so desirable? (people paid premiums for BMW when they came to the states in the 1970s even though they had no reputation here).

I'm certainly NOT understanding the logic behind,

"What you don't understand is that 3 series buyers are ppl who want to pay as little as possible for the propellor. Driving is probably on the bottom of their priorities"

Especially given that the 3-Series (it all its many guises M3... 335i... etc.) are easily the most engaging of all the current BMW vehicles to drive.

Simply because 3 is a lower number than 5,6 or 7 doesn't mean that the 3-Series is an inferior vehicle, just a smaller one in 'BMW model naming-speak'.

Yeah I've heard here or there about the 1-series being the true E46 successor, but that's mostly speculation because not many have had a chance to drive the thing yet.

Again like I said the ones who have driven the car do prefer the cars steering feel to the 335's, but complain about the excessive understeer which is much more toned down in the 3-series. Ultimately reviews have concluded the 335i is the more entertaining of the two.

Now you could easily change that by throwing on slightly larger front performance tires to match those in the back, & a larger antiroll bar if you can fit it.

BTW I'm not sure if you've driven both a 335i & E46 330i, but coming from someone who has I'd definitely commend the 335i as the more entertaining & comfortable car to drive. In case you have driven both do you not agree? I've never understood this beef with the new chassis!?

Anyway the 1-series is a great car with pricing that doesn't make much sense considering the pricing of other vehicles within BMW's line-up, & the fact that you can buy a Corvette for a few grand more which does everything better than the BMW except for refinement & interior fit & finish.

I know this is a BMW article but big news, edmund.com did their first test on the Nissan GT-R. It goes from 0-60 in 3.3s. I don't know to submit an article, anyone here care to do so?

Thank you,
Lexus

Another dumb comment. Good thing you didn't get the V8 GS, or you would be pushing it.

No just my sense of logic.

GS:

i hardly see ANY cars on the side of the road. ever.

by the way, according to JDPower dependability ratings the difference between lexus and BMW is 0.4 problems per car OVER THREE YEARS.

average lexus has 1.4 problems per car over three years.

average BMW has 1.8 problems per car over three years.

so tell me, is that a meaningful difference?

That's my take. The car starts at around $35k and can run you to $42k. At that point you are barely a skip to a 335i sedan. I realize the 1 is a different car than the 3, but I would have rather of seen it starting at say $32k and run to $38. Keeping it in the sub 40 range.

Not to mention in typical BMW style you have ot pay for every option. It kills me that a company that is known for luxury makes you shell out for options like leather, heated seats, HID headlights, and other little toys. I guess that's why I still like Acura's. Granted a different class as they are entry level luxury, but hell you get heated seats, leather, moonroof, XM radio, HIDs, the works for the same price, there isn't even a difference between 6 speed and tiptronic in $. The only thing you pay for is a $2k navigatin option on most models like the TSX or TL.

I wonder when the day will come that you can get all those options standard in a BMW, MB, Audi. Hell, if I can get HIDs standard in my Mazda 3, an entry level compact, then why are they still an option on a high end car like a Bimmer.

I must say I get a laugh when I see a luxury car rolling by with regular halogens, apparently after buying a 40k car he could not shell the $700-$1,000 more to get the lights. It makes your luxo-box less luxo. Which still leaves me to my word, "sure you can buy a BMW for 30k, but your going to spend at least 40k if you REALLY want it to be a BMW with the proper trimmings."

Well-All of you have a choice here. You don't have to opt for the 135I. You could save a few pennies and go for the 128I. True 3/4 of a second slower to 60MPH but then you might have a fully optined car for 35 grand.Spend another grand on tires and better springs from Dinan and you would have a pretty good value. I think the 335I could have been priced a couple of grand lower so not to break the 40 grand barrier but it's still a good value when you factor in the performance. And it is supposed to really be a coupe not a sedan.People can actually sit comfortably in the back of a 330I sedan. I have. I don't think you could comfortably sit in the back of a 135I coupe. So there is a different customer base BMW is going after here.So the 128I gets you into your 1st starter BMW in the low 30's. Maybe that's the real reason for the 1 series coupe.

Agreed on that point, the 128 loaded would be the best value. But I guess for the performance aspect you would opt the 135. Still a great looking car by any means in my opinion.

But I reall think BMW could have tweaked it down to be just below the 40 grand mark for the 135 optioned.

Wow, amazing how many ridiculous statements are made on this site. A few random thoughts:

I love the statements like "Americans forced BMW to become this way, etc." Please. Shareholders, in search of a rising share price, causes the boards to pursue growth, growth, growth. You think it's just America that has made BMW so successful? Everyone everywhere wants a BMW. You think it's just America that buys big 7 Series? They sell loads of them in Europe, but most have diesel engines, and only because governments have taxed gasoline at much higher rates for decades. If gas prices dropped there, watch big V8 engine sales increase. Simple.

As for Americans buying cars like BMWs mostly for the prestige...well, maybe true, but again, you think it's just Americans? Sales of 3 Series and A4's have been increasing in Europe for years, especially in the UK. People don't want Mondeos and Vectras...they'd rather pay a little more and get a base - 4 cylinder gas or diesel - 3 Series. You talk about paying for extras!

SUV sales in Europe have been rising for years as well. They like the same shit, they just can't afford the gas. They don't drive Suburbans, but they buy far more SUVs, like X5s, than they did 10 years ago.

I think the 1-Series (esp. the 128i) will be very successful here, but the 3 Series will still outsell it by far. The market for a 3 sized car is just a lot bigger. But there's no question that the new 1 is much more similar to the 3 from 15 or 20 years ago in terms of size. The new 3 is a much softer, more luxurious car than before. I personally miss the rawness of older BMWs (but this can apply to almost all cars these days). I think the 1 Series is as much about getting a younger audience as anything. As the 3 Series has grown in size, and especially price, I think BMW recognized there's a market for the 1 Series in the $30Ks. Yes, a loaded 135i will not be far off the price of a 3 Series, but most will be cheaper.

People bitch about paying extra for all the luxuries that you get standard on an Acura. Get an Acura.

Never said I wouldn't own a 1 series, and I never said Acura's were in the same boat, actually I know I didn't. But what I was trying to say is that in today's world where you can get a regular small compact or the like with features like heated seats and HIDs standard, how is it that some luxury companies don't start offering things standard.

Years ago CD players were a $500 option. Then they became standard options on luxury cars, then on normal cars. Moonroofs are now pretty standard on all luxury cars and are making their way to most normal cars as a standard. How someone could own a car w/o a roof nowadays is beyond me. But HIDs are pretty much standard on most cars, I'm pretty sure Lexus and Infiniti may both offer them standard, not 100% on that so don't quote me. But it's pretty clear that charging $700-$1000 for an optional HID when you could do a retrofit for $200 is a bit absurd, just throw them in the car and be done with it.

I understand most BMW drivers are...well...drivers, so things like that are not totally important. But if you are looking for appeal and stature while cruising around, I for one do not get all excited to see a 3 cruising by with halogens.

This horse just won't die will it.............

Also to mention that the 1 series is supposed appeal to a different type of driver. A 3 series sedan is bigger,has 4drs,a larger trunk. While it is in no way a large vehicle a family of 4 can fit in it with room for luggage. I would guess a 1 series coupe driver is single perhaps and doesn't need all that room. He or she might be cross shopping another coupe such as an Audi TT or even BMWs Z4 Coupe or yes an Infinity G37.Also because of the 128I the price spread on the 1 series is over 10 grand. As I said previously the 1 series is probably being marketed for single or couples and for 1st entry into BMW ownership.